September 13, 2011 6:20 pm at 6:20 pm #809171yahudMember
I dont really have an opinion, but it makes me proud to be a chelek from an nation with such members as Geshmakke Mentch.September 13, 2011 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #809173Raphael KaufmanMember
Let me add to my previous post. Not only do women in the work force have to “…differentiate between real threats to halachic propriety and immaginary ones.” But men, as well, need to learn what constitutes appropriate halachic behavior and what is over the line. In addition, men have to be sensitive to feelings of women in the office and, perhaps, go lifnei meshuras hadin in interacting with them.September 13, 2011 6:38 pm at 6:38 pm #809174YW Moderator-80Member
as yahud said: “it makes me proud to be a chelek from an nation with such members as Geshmakke Mentch.”
VERYSeptember 13, 2011 6:45 pm at 6:45 pm #809175kapustaParticipant
Am I the only one that thinks this thread is on its way to getting closed?September 13, 2011 6:48 pm at 6:48 pm #809176bptParticipant
Wow, BP Mentch, you must have posted a doozy to have earned an EDITED.
# 1, I do not blame victims. And I’m also opposed to the use of the phrase “she asked for it”.
# 2, Its a free country (though not a hefker velt) and the OP (and anyone else in the CR) can dress any way they please.
But choices come with side effects, and the way you present yourself (both good or bad) has a direct impact on how others treat you. Fair or not, its fact.
Plus, as I stated earlier, the “chatting up” may have been Ms. OP’s dramatic imagination, thinking that all the men are out to get her. I’m not sure of your workplace experience, but I can assure you, mine is extensive and non-frum.
In the workplace, trouble knocks on the doors that have someone home. If the chatting up was truely out of bounds, it might warrant a self assesment.September 13, 2011 7:01 pm at 7:01 pm #809178YW Moderator-80Member
it *could be* what you say is true, but i see no indication from the ops post that this is so. to make even a *could be* terribly negative assessment of the ops behavior strikes me as the exact opposite of being dan l kaf zchus, with no reason other than your unsupported speculation.
this does not seem like you.
has anyone in your vicinity taken over your cr account?September 13, 2011 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #809179Boro Park MenschParticipant
BPT, the mods took out ONE sentence from my post, why, I’m not sure except that it said nothing about you.
You said first, “I do not blame victims. And I’m also opposed to the use of the phrase ‘she asked for it’.”
Then you followed that with the conclusion, “In the workplace, trouble knocks on the doors that have someone home.”
These two statements contradict each other.
Mir ken learnen a bissel fun der Wall Street Journal. Regularly there are articles about outrageous workplace environment cases like the one involving the New York Knicks.
The reason these cases are successful is because in each case, the victim did nothing to provoke the sexual harassment.
I feel bad for OP. I don’t know why anyone wouldn’t.September 13, 2011 8:42 pm at 8:42 pm #809181real sourcesMember
Any man saying that a lady will be not be flirted with at work unless she is dressed immodestly is not being honest. A man’s yetzer hara doesn’t need a prutza in order to be tempted. The aveira of pritzus is for increasing the temptation, not for creating it.September 13, 2011 9:05 pm at 9:05 pm #809182bptParticipant
“this does not seem like you.
has anyone in your vicinity taken over your cr account?”
No. But I take great offense at the assertion that “frum married men” are acting like construction workers, when the person in question is sending off signals that imply nothing but the highest standards of tznius and virtue.
What was discussed was (IMHO) worth discussing, and as always the CR visitors part as friends, whether we agree or not.
the dreaded editedSeptember 13, 2011 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #809184taking a breakMember
bpt, i’ve been on the receiving end of “chatty married men”. not a great experience. make me very uncomfortable. and it scares me b/c if thats what some married men are like, there are probably chatty single men too. and there is a fine line between saying good moring/how are you (social niceties) and chatting. i’m sorry to say it but this yetzer harah to talk to the opposite gender can be quite strong sometimes. i know because mine scares me too.
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