- This topic has 369 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 11 months ago by .
-
Posts
-
HIE: calm down and take a deep breath. I don’t know why you think I should believe you about Rav Heineman if you don’t even know which hechsher is his, but clearly you are the one who doesn’t have the facts straight. Check the Star-K website or any of many news sources that reported on the Star-K’s policy decision to be machmir. This is a quote from their website “Rabbi Moshe Heinemann has instructed Star-K establishments and mashgichim that only the non-problematic fish be used”.
They also write there
So it seems Rav Heineman and Rav Bess think that Rav Feinstein is machmir, I don’t know why you think otherwise.
7 hours ago HIE claimed:
“Rav Heinemen from Chof K or Star K (i forgot which one he’s from) is MATIR it.”
Now HIE claims:
“NOTICE, it doesn’t say that Rav Heinemen holds it’s assur it’s just that, he didn’t GIVE a p’sak.”
Can you make up your mind HIE? Do the facts change every time you are disproven? Maybe ask your 10th grade Rebbi (you did say you are in high school) for some guidance.
HIE:”now i just have to prove that Rav Heinemen DOESN’T hold it’s assur”
OK, go ahead and prove it. In my opinion writing on your website not to eat something is equivalent to assering, but if you can prove he really holds the opposite of what he wrote, I’m all ears.
Would it make you happier if I rephrased that the near unanimous opinion of Gedolei HaPoskim is that one SHOULD NOT EAT fish infested with Anisakis.
In the US Muttar:Rav Belsky
In the US DON’T EAT: Rav Bess, Rav Miller, Rav Forscheimer, Rav Reisman, Rav Feinstein, Rav Cohen, Rav Heinemann
In EY muttar: Rav Vaye, Rav Kuber
In EY DON’T EAT: Rav Elyashiv, Rav Vozner, Rav Korelitz, Rav Karp, Rav Klein, Rav Gestetner, Rav Revach, Rav Gross, Rav Shternbuch, Rav Kanievsky
1) Rav Heineman and Rav Bess both say that Rav Feinstein tells people not to eat the infested fish, so he certainly belongs on the DO NOT EAT list.
2) With pleasure, you are still very outnumbered
3) Also from Star-K website “Rabbi Heinemann recommends that consumers follow the same policy”. So it’s not just the reputation of the hechsher, he really holds you shouldn’t eat it.
I heard that Rav Vaye is coming out with something new any day. Curious to see what he has new to say.
The Star-K does not have a policy regarding the worms. The previous quote and their cnsumer advisory is not an indication that they assur anything. In fact, it appears to be more of a business decision than a halachic decision.
This comes from the Star-K site http://star-k.org/cons-vegdetail.php?ID=74
May 18, 2010
Recently there has been much discussion about the fish worms called Anisakis. These worms/parasites have been found in certain species of fish. Some Gedolei Eretz Yisroel have ruled that these worms are halachically prohibited and, therefore, those species of fish must be inspected prior to use. Since we at Star-K strive to have our kosher certified products accepted by all kosher consumers, Rabbi Moshe Heinemann has instructed Star-K establishments and mashgichim that only the non-problematic fish be used. Until we issue policies and procedures for inspections (as we have for vegetables and fruit) the problematic species of fish – fresh, frozen or canned – will not be used, even with kosher certification (unless prior approval is given by Star-K.)
Rabbi Heinemann recommends that consumers follow the same policy. Therefore, only non-problematic fish should be used until guidelines for inspection are issued. As with all halachic issues, people should follow the guidance of their personal Rav.
Updates will be posted on this site.
Update 6/18/2010: Star-K now permits canned wild salmon as long as the consumer mashes it prior to eating. Canned farmed salmon is permitted without mashing.
Policy
The following lists are based on research by Rabbi Gershon Bess. Note: Please READ CAREFULLY since there are some species of fish that appear on both lists. Their acceptability or non-acceptability depends on where they originate. We have no information about fish not included on this list.
Until further notice, only the variety of fish found on the following list may be used without any need for inspection:
Carp
Flounder – Only Fluke, Georgia Banks, Channel
Gefilte Fish
Herring fillet
Lox – Farm Raised
Minced Fish Sticks
Pike
Pollock – Atlantic
Red Snapper – Eastern or Atlantic only
Salmon – Farm Raised (e.g. Atlantic, Norwegian, Chilean, New Zealand, British Columbia )
Sardines – from Morocco, Philippines, Portugal
Tilapia
Trout
Tuna
Whitefish – Michigan-Lake Superior
Whiting
Until we issue policies and procedures for inspections (as we have for vegetables and fruit) the following species of fish (fresh, frozen or canned) should NOT be used (even with kosher certification):
Butterfish
Cod – Scrod, Hake
Flounder – Yellow Tail, Wild Dabs, Black Backs, Turbot, Yellow Fin Sole
Halibut
Red Perch
Red Snapper – Pacific
Sable a.k.a Black Cod – including Smoked
Sole
Yellow Fin Sole
“Rabbi Moshe Heinemann has instructed Star-K establishments and mashgichim that only the non-problematic fish be used”
Sure sounds like Star-K policy to me.
“Rabbi Heinemann recommends that consumers follow the same policy”
Doesn’t sound like a “business decision” to me.
Rav Padwa: Rav Karelitz and Rav Wosner Maintain that One is Permitted to Eat Fish
In the teshuvah, Rav Padwe states that he spoke to Rav Nissim Karelitz of Bnei Brak, who told Rav Padwe that while he maintains that if one knows that the fish in front of him contains an Anisakis worm it may be forbidden, nevertheless, one is not required to examine the fish before consuming it. There are sufficient doubts to rely on, he said, to permit one to eat fish freely without checking them first.
Rav Padwe also relates that Rav Chaim Meir Wosner, former rov of Kehal Yitav Lev in London and currently rov in Bnei Brak, stated that his father, Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner, the author of Shevet Halevi, holds this way as well.
Hello99. Yes, the policy not to use the fish is a business decision because it is StarK policy to “strive to have our kosher certified products accepted by all kosher consumers,” meaning, lets be machmir right now, until we have clarity. If they felt it was prohibited by halacha they would not have written that. Dont believe me, call them and ask them.
Rabbi Heineman recommends consumers be machmir until things are clarified. Is that a psak that the worms are assur or a statement that says, we are not sure what the halacha is, so better safe then sorry.
http://www.oukosher.org/index.php/common/article/fish_industry_kashrus_meeting_w_rabbi_moshe_vaie/
According to the article, Rav Vaie maintains that Rav Wosner (and Rav Elyashiv) feels one should “be vigilant” (whatever that means).
apushatayid: “Is that a psak that the worms are assur or a statement that says, we are not sure what the halacha is, so better safe then sorry”
Maybe you ddn’t notice that I renamed the list “should not eat” rather than “assur”. Rav Heineman certainly belongs on that list.
Rav Padawa can quote Rav Vozner’s son in his father’s name as much as he wants, but the teshuva in Rav Vozner’s sefer he writes they are assur.
The Eida HaChareidis came out with a policy statement that herring must be checked.
The Anisakis Worm Rears its Ugly Head Once More
International News
Written by 5TJT Staff
Monday, 23 May 2011 09:50
The Brooklyn Vaad HaRabbonim, the Baltimore Kashrus agency, and a handful of other Kashrus agencies were stringent. The Orthodox Union, in agreement with Rabbi Vay from Jerusalem, however, ruled that these worms while still in the flesh of the fish are kosher. [The interview of Rabbi Vay may be seen at this link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMtQLb1YmLo%5D. Even the lenient position is of the opinion that once the worm has left the fish it is no longer kosher.
So what happened now? Apparently, some top Rabbinic decisors have signed a letter clearly indicating their position that the Anisakis worm, while still in the flesh of the fish, is decidedly NOT KOSHER. The letter, which has yet to be published in the Jewish press, has the signatures of Rabbi Feivel Cohen Shlita, Rav Dovid Feinstein Shlita and Rav Aharon Schechter Shlita.
Rav Feivel Cohen is a Rav in Brooklyn and a prolific author of halachic works, Rav Feinstein is one of the leading Poskim in the United States, and Rav Aharon Schechter is the Rosh HaYeshiva of the Chaim Berlin Yeshiva.
The Kashrus issue centers on the whether it has been demonstrated that the Anisakis worm clearly comes from outside of the fish or whether it may still be assumed that the worm develops internally. The Orthodox Union maintains that according to Jewish law, one may still make the assumption that the worm has developed within the fish itself. Other authorities maintain that the permissive ruling of the Shulchan Aruch does not apply when it can be observed that the worm actually migrated into the flesh from elsewhere.
The new initiative to ban the parasitic worm comes directly from the court of Rav Elyashiv in Jerusalem. Rabbi Efrati in particular has pushed the new effort toward the ban on fish that have not had the Anisakis removed.
Anisakis are rare in waters with low salinity and in the southern North Sea.
I like fish also.
I caught a fish.
A salmon.
In Alaska.
In a little stream.
On my fishing rod.
That I bought in Wal-Mart.
And I ate one of the eggs.
It was slimy.
And I ate the fish.
It was not as slimy.
But it was still fish.
I almost caught another one.
In the Bay.
But it broke the line.
And got away.
The second one was a silver.
Salmon.
But I caught some rockfish.
And ate them.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.