December 21, 2011 6:48 am at 6:48 am #601224NYBDMember
There are some people who hold not say the word ‘Christmas’, instead using ‘Xmas’, purportedly because it is forbidden to say the word ‘Christ'(yimach shemo). Yet,[some of] those same people use the word ‘Christian'(Xtian?) freely without regard for the[ir own] rule. ???December 21, 2011 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #838062MacherishMember
Take your pick…whatever you feel like saying, say. Just respect others for their decisions.December 21, 2011 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #838063AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
There is nothing really wrong with saying ‘christ’ – it is just the Greek word for mashiach.
(One could therefore translate ‘christians’ as ‘mashichists’.)
There is something VERY wrong with saying the name ‘j’ before it, since THAT would be saying that ‘j’ is the chr…December 21, 2011 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #838064zahavasdadParticipant
The X in Xmas is not really an X, its really the Greek letter Kai which means our savior in Greek
Those who say xmas instead of christmas are mistaken because they are the same thing.
If you dont want to say that, then say December 25thDecember 21, 2011 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #838065
There’s a thread on this already if someone can find it.December 21, 2011 2:45 pm at 2:45 pm #838066
Xtianity is infused with non-sense. Therefore, we see this carry over when some of us try to speak about it. It’s best to ignore the topic altogether.December 21, 2011 3:00 pm at 3:00 pm #838067ToiParticipant
never thought of that. maybe cuz xmas is a compound word so your saying x as a complete word unto itself like yushke-fish. christian is refering to those who follow him ym’sh. so its a new word. just a thought.December 21, 2011 3:01 pm at 3:01 pm #838068ItcheSrulikMember
Some people are inconsistent about how they apply their own rules. Generally, it’s considered rude to point this fact out to them.
PS This is an exact duplicate of an old thread that I’m too lazy to look for. This is an exact duplicate of my response there as well.December 21, 2011 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #838069
Dunno. I say both.
Do people realize that X is not just a way to avoid saying the name? The letter X is a greek symbol that refers to him.December 21, 2011 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #838070
Aside from Xtianity, I have employed this procedure when talking about New Jersey Governor, X Xtie.December 21, 2011 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #838071
Christ is the english (latin?) rendering of the greek christos which means annointed one (the greek translation of the word moshiach – most english translations of the christian bible, what they call the NT are translated from latin, which is translated from greek).December 21, 2011 6:10 pm at 6:10 pm #838072AinOhdMilvadoParticipant
In the Gemara, j-boy is referred to as ‘yeshu’ – ??”? – (as roshei taivos for YEmach SH’mo U’zichro.)
Contrary to what xtians would have us believe, his name was NOT ‘yeshua’ (meaning salvation) because the shoresh (root) letters for that word include an ‘AYIN’ – ? – and there is no ayin in ‘yeshu’.
Chazal were successful in being mocheh his name ad k’day kach, that people think ‘yeshu’ WAS his name.December 21, 2011 6:24 pm at 6:24 pm #838073
AOM: His name was probably Yeshua, assuming he actually existed. When the Gemara refers to him, if it actually refers to him at all (it’s hard to tell because everything even possibly related to him has been censored), calls him “Oso Ha’ish”. Yeshu is a later reference, quite possibly because it can stand for Yemach Shemo Vezichro, but was also used because it functions ans a Kinui of his actual name.December 21, 2011 6:36 pm at 6:36 pm #838074
I have an indirect question that is sorta in the same ballpark.
Those of us who have friendly acquaintances who are not Jewish are often in a spot to respond to their holiday wishes to us, with an, “Enjoy your holiday”, or “Have a happy holiday”.
Are we allowed to say something like that? Is it affirming some validity to what they believe, or can it be seen as just being sociable?
Any ideas how a Jewish person responds to a friendly gentile acquaintance who wishes us to enjoy Chanuka? Can we respond with an enjoy your holiday without stumbling into avoda zora, heaven forbid???
While I have hostile feelings to that religion, I dont necessarily have those feelings to all its’ members. In fact, many of them dont even buy into it and see the holiday as a time to be all warm and fuzzy and friendly, and to buy gifts, with no religious connection for them.December 21, 2011 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #838075
BTGuy: To anyone but a religious Catholic it shouldn’t be a problem. To everyone else it’s either not Avodah Zarah or is about family.December 21, 2011 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #838076dash™Participant
Any ideas how a Jewish person responds to a friendly gentile acquaintance who wishes us to enjoy Chanuka?
Just wish them a Happy Hannukah in return.December 21, 2011 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #838077soliekMember
non jews tell me merry christmas all the time. i just respond with a polite “happy holidays”December 21, 2011 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #838078yentingyentaParticipant
BTguy, lol on x xtie.
to the security guard at school who wished me happy holidays, i replied the same to him
when i emailed a nonjewish classmate who ended her reply with ‘have a happy hanukah”, i responded “happy holidays to you too”. my reason? not specifying they should have a happy 25th. i could be referring to new years as well. plus on the class mate not 100% sure if she’s jewish or not.December 21, 2011 7:19 pm at 7:19 pm #838079
BTGuy- I hope you are joking. His name is Chris – not T at the end.December 22, 2011 3:38 am at 3:38 am #838080
BTGuy: Why not?
A happy holiday is a happy holiday. He’s saying “I wish you a happy holiday, whatever you may celebrate” and you’re saying the same. He’s saying it (rather than “Merry Christmas”) because he doesn’t want to step on any toes- don’t make him feel like he is, despite his best efforts.
As far as wishing him a happy holiday, say just that- “Have a great holiday”. Focus on the family part, the food part, whatever, but you can be cheerful and nondenominational at the same time.
However, I don’t see where avoda zara comes into play. Please explain this to me.December 22, 2011 10:04 am at 10:04 am #838081old manParticipant
This is a non-issue. Be cordial, be polite, say the greeting however you want, it is ok. If it makes you uncomfortable, move to Israel and you won’t have this problem.December 22, 2011 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #838082
I apologize if i did not state my reason clearly, but I dont want to the greeting to be thought of halachically as an affirmation of what they are doing or believing. This was brought about when I was told by someone who was learning Avoda Zora, that if you pass a church and even want to just compliment the artwork of the building or windows, we are not permitted to do so.
Hi old man.
I am uncomfortable with it. And, equally, I would be uncomfortable with wishing someone a happy Ramadan, but I have no plans to move to Israel because of this greeting issue. lol. By the way, are you a Neil Young fan?December 22, 2011 7:45 pm at 7:45 pm #8380832scentsParticipant
I dont know what the din is. However this is what I do.
I dont say anything to anyone. if someone tell me Happy Holidays i say Thank you!
If they say Merry Ch..s I say oh! you have a great weekend!December 22, 2011 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #838084
It is a machlokes among evangelicals, and catholics what his “real” name was. whatever, it is a name. dont use the 2 word j and c together, because you are calling j the c.December 22, 2011 8:25 pm at 8:25 pm #838085
If someone wishes me a happy holiday or happy hanuka or whatever it is they say, I reply “enjoy your time off from work”.December 22, 2011 8:33 pm at 8:33 pm #838086
lol 2 cents. It gets the job done all the same.December 22, 2011 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #838087ZeesKiteParticipant
Isn’t this whole thing sooo silly?
How can someone, born out of wedlock, a CONFESSED mamzer, become a getshka?December 22, 2011 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #838088MorahRachMember
OK first of all, yes it is everyone’s preference, but to the OP…saying Christ (yemach shmo) is really inappropriate. As is acting as though Hashem is going to strike down on you if you say Christmas instead of Xmas. Especiallly those who live in the real world, in America ( not saying those are synonymous), but it is appropriate if you are greeted by someone you know is non-jewish to wish them a Merry Christmas. Yeshu was a Jew, Christianity formed itself AFTER his death. Yes it was his followers but he himself did not actually branch off and form his own religion. Saying Adolf hitler yemach shmo i think everyone can agree on, but Christ? …Not as much.December 23, 2011 1:03 am at 1:03 am #838089
I understood what you meant, and I still don’t get why it’s avoda zara to wish a non-Jew happy holidays. I know the halachos with a church, but I fail to see how it applies. You aren’t saying that you’re jealous of the awesome time he’s having on his holiday when you say “happy holiday”- you’re wishing him the same thing he had the menschlichkeit to say to you, that he should have a good vacation, have a good time with his family, off from work, etc. You’re not complimenting the holiday, if that’s where the whole church-complimenting thing comes in; you’re wishing him a good time on his holiday, the same way you might wish him a happy birthday.
If there’s something I’m missing here, please tell me.
As far as the whole thing with He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named’s name, in my AP European class, we call him the J word. Not the C word. It comes up a lot in European history. One student wanted to call him Yoshke the whole time, but we were worried that someone would write it on the AP test.December 23, 2011 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #838090
2scents and apushatayid- If someone tells me Happy Holidays I respond with Merry Christmas.
I have yet to see a m’kor for not saying Christmas, and this whole PC business is ridiculous.December 23, 2011 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #838091yichusdikParticipant
The man’s name was jesus – just a name. using the other part together with it that means in Greek “anointed one” gives him a title, and that could be construed as a recognition of the way in which they regarded him contrary to Torah, and therefore should not be used. The historicity of this man is still in dispute, and even in our own traditions there is machlokes if he was the same yeshu who the Gemara wrote about or if that one lived a couple of generations earlier. not pashut. The book that was a collection of all Jewish traditions about him, called Sefer Toldos Yeshu, included every story, anecdote and legend about him and his followers, embellished as generations went by and his followers (or more accurately, the followers of the meshumad Paul, who is the biggest villain in all of this) became more powerful and more cruel, does not exist anymore and is only known through quotes and excerpts.
As far as the greeting goes, I don’t get too exercised about it. People are genuinely making an effort (for the most part) to be a bit kinder or friendlier around this time. I’m not going to make a scene of Jewish entitlement by expecting their friendliness to conform to my worldview, and I won’t give them a greeting in return that is meaningless to them.December 23, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #838092
That totally makes sense.
I was concerned, since I am around many many non-Jews who are very thoughtful in wishing me a Happy Chanuka, and are always very pleasant, if there were some parameters that I needed to learn in returning a good wish for their holiday.
I found it hilarious that one student in your AP Euro class wanted to use the name Yoshke. lol Good for them! It reminds me of writing reports on Greece and Rome and using a lower case “g” to write about their gods. I wonder if using a capital in that context would be avoda zora for us?December 23, 2011 4:25 pm at 4:25 pm #838093
I personally have no problem saying the words, christ, christmas or jesus (I dont believe the concept of “yemach shmo” can be applied to a mythical figure who surely did not exist as is portrayed by the gospels – but I digress, this is not the place to discuss the roots and origins of christianity). I just wont use the words jesus and christ together.
It is not a question of PC though. It is deeply rooted in the mindset of yidden that atrocities committed in the name of jesus against jews have taken place for 2000 years and as a result there is an automatic reflex that shuns anything by or about him. It is a natural reflex to avoid it.December 23, 2011 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #838094
Thank you for those three words.
I dont understand why you had to beat around the bush and not just come out with them. lol
Now I have to bring my computer to the mikva.December 23, 2011 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #838095Raphael KaufmanMember
Zeeskeit, A technical point. A child simply born “out of wedlock” I.E. whose parents aren’t married, is not a mamzer. Only a child born of the arayos is a mamzer.December 23, 2011 6:08 pm at 6:08 pm #838096
Anytime.December 23, 2011 7:32 pm at 7:32 pm #838097
BTGuy: The teacher really got nervous because one previous student got points off her AP test in the past by writing Yerushalayim in one of her essays- IN HEBREW!!! Now we keep it strictly English-based.
Actually, I would totally say Merry Christmas if not for the fact that you can’t take it for granted with most people whether they’re Christian, or Muslim, or Hindu, etc. I guess it’s just easier to identify Jews. So a simple Happy Holidays is really the simplest way to go.December 24, 2011 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #838098chocandpatienceMember
BTGuy “Now I have to bring my computer to the mikva. “
LOL!December 25, 2011 10:08 am at 10:08 am #838099agentemesParticipant
The Bais Havaad has a shiur on this see bais havaad on the parsha parshas MiketzDecember 25, 2011 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #838100YehudahTzviParticipant
I was brought up in an entirely secular household. Yet, as nonreligious as my parents were, they always referred to Yoshke as Yossel. Anyone else ever heard of this?
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