November 10, 2009 11:06 pm at 11:06 pm #590781
I have a 17 yr old who just came home from yeshiva in jeans i never knew he had. Should I be concerned?November 10, 2009 11:09 pm at 11:09 pm #818333YW Moderator-80Member
I’m leery about approving this, but let’s give it a try for a whileNovember 10, 2009 11:27 pm at 11:27 pm #818334cantoresqMember
Is the issue the jeans, or that he may had acquired clothes without your knowledge beforehand? The former is a horse long beaten to death on this forum. The later is an itneresting topic.November 10, 2009 11:41 pm at 11:41 pm #818335oomisParticipant
You should be leery, Mod 80. This thread ALWAYS gets us into a pickle.November 10, 2009 11:45 pm at 11:45 pm #818336
He is a good boy and I want him to grow up to be a “Talmud Chacham” like all the other mothers(if he read thios he’d kill me) but I don’t know what I should allow and what is considerted “wrong” in this day and age… I need some guidance here.November 10, 2009 11:48 pm at 11:48 pm #818337gregaaronMember
Um, probably, yeah. But what type of Yeshiva are we talking about? He came home for the day, or for Shabbos, or what? Do you know who his friends generally are? As they say in the Chinuch Roundtable, we really need more facts…November 11, 2009 12:08 am at 12:08 am #818338
When did he change into them? Is he living a double life in yeshiva or is this a yeshiva which is cool with variations in levush? Not a bad thing, just questions you want to sort out.
I’d go to someone like Rabbi Yakov Horowitz who can help you figure it out.November 11, 2009 12:20 am at 12:20 am #818339pookieMember
possibly, is he hanging out with boys that you don’t know? is that the only thing that hes doing diffarently? is he still learning and davening well? did he start new things (ex. smoking)?November 11, 2009 12:33 am at 12:33 am #818340HIEParticipant
depends, what kind of boy he is, which yeshiva he goes to, what the circumstances are, you said a very general statement.November 11, 2009 12:37 am at 12:37 am #818341tamazaballMember
Yes be concerned, dont push your child away from you, have communication , dont be mean and dont embarrase him in public, if you dont do that he might push himself away from you and most importantly show him that you love him no matter what.November 11, 2009 12:51 am at 12:51 am #818342goody613Member
is it only the clothes that changed or is he also acting differentlyNovember 11, 2009 1:42 am at 1:42 am #818343Just-a-guyMember
Complete the following sentence-
Son, I’m concerned that you’re wearing jeans because _________.November 11, 2009 1:44 am at 1:44 am #818344
Guess what? He still may turn into a talmid chacham. But as much food for thought as this thread will give you, please please contact Project YES, Rabbi Horowitz, Dr. BZ Twerski… there are many good people out there who will help you sort your thoughts and give you a good script.
Meanwhile, plan on how you can spoil him for breakfast (and no strings attached. He’ll be waiting for the other shoe to drop; don’t let it.). That’s probably the best hishtadlus after Tehillim you can do right now.November 11, 2009 2:42 am at 2:42 am #818345cholentkugelkishkeMember
Speak to a Chinuch expert. This isn’t a question for the YWN CR.November 11, 2009 2:49 am at 2:49 am #818346positiveaynayimMember
Why not speak to his mashgiach, or rebbe? Yeshivos appreciate the joint efforts of parents and mechanchim at all levels.November 11, 2009 2:53 am at 2:53 am #818347bein_hasdorimParticipant
Mommy613; Don’t worry! Believe me, he didn’t just decide to buy a pair of jeans
on his own. Knowing that this is not the kind of upbringing he had.
He most probably has a friend, or two in Yeshiva who bought/wear them too, and he
is just trying to fit in. I am not getting into the right & wrong of this. I’m saying this is more his friends, and yeshivah, where he most probably picked it up from.
Maybe the Yeshiva isn’t the type you thought it was, or this is an isolated incident
within the yeshiva. Either way you should confront him in a respectful way,
not bossing him, rather suggesting this isn’t the way he was brought up,
or the the way you want him to be. However making a big deal about it, or commanding him to stop, without his input, or him feeling it was your decision not his,
will not bear positive results.November 11, 2009 5:36 am at 5:36 am #818349charliehallParticipant
Insides are more important than outsides. There are some amazing talmidei chachamim in Israel who always dress very casually.November 11, 2009 7:32 am at 7:32 am #818350williMember
I assume it’s an extreme thing in your eyes. So look into WHY he did it. Some teens just like to experiment & try a new look, or possibly he’s testing you to see how you’d react. no time to go into a psychology / parenting session but as there could be an underlying issue, it could just as well be a passing phase..November 11, 2009 11:55 am at 11:55 am #818351SJSinNYCMember
Mommy613, its important to address WHY he is wearing them. If its just because they are comfortable, I would let it go. If its because he is rebelling, then you need to deal with WHY.
I agree with Tzippi to contact a professional. But talk to your son first.November 11, 2009 2:20 pm at 2:20 pm #818353gavra_at_workParticipant
Not knowing anything about the child, we can only speculate.
I personally would be more worried that the jeans were bought without my consent/money than the fact that he is wearing them (where did he get the money, where where they bnought (the mall?)) but that also depends on your location & what yeshiva he is in.November 11, 2009 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #818354
Perhaps he just came from the gym, or from helping clean up the yard of his rebbe or from helping a newly married couple shlep furniture into their apartment or any similar activity where the standard yeshiva attire is not appropriate. Perhaps he is concerned with your money and has no interest in runing his clothes while engaged in these activities. I thinkNovember 11, 2009 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #818355WolfishMusingsParticipant
OK, let’s try something else here.
Your son is seventeen. He’s not a child anymore – he’s practically an adult. If he’s not free to make his own choices yet (which, in some respects it seems like he is), then he will certainly be free to do so soon.
I’ve always been against the idea of fighting kids on every issue. It’s counterproductive on two levels. Firstly, it stifles kids and causes resentment. Kids (and teens) need to have some avenue of self-expression and choice of clothing is one such avenue. Secondly, if you fight a kid on every issue, they do not learn the different between what’s *really* important to you and what is merely preferred behavior.
Ask yourself this question — if your son grew up to be a fine Yid who has success in learning, acts nicely, etc. but also, on occasion wears jeans — would you be horrified? Would that be something that is so completely unacceptable that it would forever mar your relationship with him (as an intermarriage org going OTD might)? If the answer is no – then you have to learn to let go on this a bit.
That doesn’t mean that you can’t let him know that this isn’t your preferred way of doing things. You can let him know that you think jeans are not the best mode of dress – but don’t forbid it.
A while back, I read the book “Off the Derech” by Faranak Mangolese. In it, there is a quote that I don’t think I’ll ever forget. In it, a rabbi (who, to my shame, I don’t recall his name) stated that most parents don’t realize that as their kids become jeans, their job changes. Once a kid hits their teens, they are no longer in management, but sales. You can no longer “force” your lifestyle on your kids — you have to sell it to them and make them want to do it on their own. I’ve often held the idea that if you have to force teens to do mitzvos, then you’ve lost half the battle already.
So unless this is an absolute red line, let the jeans go. Let him know you don’t think they’re proper (I’d avoid using the words “don’t approve”), but don’t outright forbid them.
The WolfNovember 11, 2009 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #818356yishtabach shemoParticipant
If he has been a regular boy until now you shouldn’t be too nervous, he is probably doing it to fit in with some of his friends, but that doesnt mean that your reaction isnt extremely important. If you would rather him not wear jeans, HE KNOWS THAT. ans he wants to see how much space you will give him.
In my opinion which is based on zero, its best not to react negatively but at the same time not to make believe you approve and at the same time not act as if your acting.
Hatzlocha, also check out priority-1.org for parenting tipsNovember 12, 2009 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #818357
I’d be more concerned if he came home wearing a dress. I didnt see the apostrophe (‘) after the S in guys and originally understood this topic to be about a yeshiva and his dress.November 12, 2009 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #818359
He’s a good boy, and I don’t want to bring to many rabbanim into this, he goes to a pretty good yeshiva. (i’d say which one but my husband says it is lashon hara). He’s in the lower shuir but wants to move up. He has no videos on his ipod. Has a kesher with his rebbe. You get my point, he’s a good boy.
I understand you think it would be best to speak to one of his rebbeim or his masgiach. I asked them how he was doing and got a fine report. Why should I be concerned here anyway? Jeans are a normal type of legwear for men. so what is really assur about them(I hate to say it but My dad wears them)? Is it just more “yeshevish” people putting down the working world. Why do jeans keep u from being “yeshevish” to begin with? i only started this thread bc my husband suggested it. But I had a talk with my son and he acted a little hurt that i seemed to be telling him he was wrong. Was I wrong to discuss it with him?
(Also, please don’t joke about this and lets keep this discussion serious.)November 13, 2009 1:46 am at 1:46 am #818360mybatMember
Mommy613 if he is doing well then don’t worry so much and show him a lot of love. Let him talk to you if he needs to but don’t push him. Just keep your eyes open and check who he hangs out with.
Another point is that if he felt comfortable enough to wear the jeans in front of you maybe he just wore them for comfort. (he couldve found a way to sneak around in them if he wanted to) maybe he wanted to see your reaction.November 13, 2009 2:39 am at 2:39 am #818361
To Charlie Hall: you’re absolutely right. And so is she, for being concerned. Overall that is the healthiest attitude to project. But we don’t know exactly where the poster coming’s from.
Here’s an example: a secular kid gets his ear pierced. There is a real possibility that there is NOTHING for the parents to be concerned about. A frum kid gets his ear pierced. There is a LOT for the parents to be concerned about, and there were probably a few stages of progressive concern till the piercing. As ridiculous as it may seem, the jeans are a red flag. I don’t think kids should be as limited as they are, clothes seem like such an innocuous way for kids to stretch a little, but there are realities in this world.
Mommy 613, as much as you don’t want to “drag rabbanim into this” I honestly think you will sleep better getting clarity from some of the fine people, or that sort, I mentioned who would be so happy to help you. I really trust in their discretion. This will not go on your son’s “permanent record.” And I have a hunch you will see much nachas from this young man!November 13, 2009 5:28 am at 5:28 am #818362
Is he in a yeshiva where wearing jeans is normal, or at least not frowned upon? I’m trying to understand the scenario here. Is he away in a dormitory and he came home for an out shabbos wearing jeans? Did he leave for yeshiva in the morning dressed one way and in the evening he came home dressed differently?November 13, 2009 7:32 am at 7:32 am #818363
is this the most distressing thing about this 17-year old? If so, don’t worry about it too much.November 16, 2009 5:48 am at 5:48 am #818364Jersey JewParticipant
the question would also be how his peers are dressing. this reminds me of a parent who was crying bitereh trerin to be that his son was talking to girls and I laughed my head off in his face. I told him he was a fool. He sent his kid to a school with girls (it wasnt co-ed, they were just in the same building) so what does he expect!
so how are the peers dressing? what activity was he involved in that he was wearing jeans?
just keep your senses up but dont freak out.November 16, 2009 3:02 pm at 3:02 pm #818365DaveCParticipant
Just reading through the posts. I personally don’t think you have anything to worry about, He doesn’t see this as rebellious; you state that your father wears jeans so he has [subconsciously] a model figure. As long as you keep your eye on all his good points and <i>subtly /<i>praise his mode of dress when he wears what you approve of, I’m sure he’ll be fine.November 17, 2009 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #818366
1st off, Dave, my dad lives in florida and my son has not been there for years b/c his mashgiach was against a trip due to the lack of tznius. He probably does not know that his grandfather even owns a pair of jeans. 2nd, my son is the top boy in his class and wears a white shirt. He tells me that a minority of the boys in his class wear colored shirts but this is not an issue with the yeshiva’s policy. 3rd his friends, to the best of my knowlege are not allowed to wear jeans. However, like someone mentioned b4, I think that it may be a good idea to let the boy express himself. What does everyone else think? Also, how far do u think is too far? at this point, it sounds as if jeans are considered an extreme. Why?November 19, 2009 2:06 am at 2:06 am #818367bubbyrMember
I am very concerned by many of the posts here. I think the message this young man is giving is not being heard.
If a young man, from a home where jeans are not worn, perhaps not acceptable, and goes to a yeshiva where jeans are not worn and perhaps not acceptable, then the wearing of jeans is sending you a message. He WANTS you to ask why !! He is making a statement with his clothes that, perhaps, he is afraid, or unable to do with his mouth.
Any “unusual” dress is a cry for a conversation. Not an accusatory tone, simply a query as to why. Watch his face and body language more than listening to his words. If you feel uneasy, you need to speak to a Rav who knows and understands both your son and your family for guidance.November 19, 2009 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #818368ZachKessinMember
I would ask your son why he’s wearing them. But do it very casually, not to accuse just to know. Maybe he just wanted a change for a few days, or something else.
And if this is your worst “problem” with your son consider yourself lucky.November 24, 2009 11:39 pm at 11:39 pm #818369
Hi, my son explained to me that some of the guys in his class get summer clothes but assured me that these were for home and camp and not the street. He said that he just wanted to dress casual and assured me this wasn’t going to make him a different person. he also brought back a 98 on a recent gemara test. I think that this proves that a yeshiva guy CAN own jeans. What do you guys say?November 25, 2009 12:42 am at 12:42 am #818370
Keep the lines open, and celebrate. Not to tell you how to spend your money, but maybe next time he comes home let him find a new CD on his pillow 😉November 25, 2009 5:53 am at 5:53 am #818371
All’s well that ends. I adore happy endings.November 25, 2009 6:40 am at 6:40 am #818372haifagirlParticipant
I have a 17 yr old who just came home from yeshiva in jeans i never knew he had. Should I be concerned?
he also brought back a 98 on a recent gemara test. I think that this proves that a yeshiva guy CAN own jeans.
Mommy613, I think you answered your own question.November 25, 2009 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #818373miamimiamiMember
Perhaps he thinks they are nice. Perhaps he wants to be his own person. There are plenty of people who do not wear jeans, look completely frum, but are very dangerous or engage in bad behavior. IMHO the “derech” stresses too much on conformity (esp clothes) and doesn’t take personal flavor into consideration. (I myself do not wear jeans and prefer to dress nicely, and I do not consider jeans “nice” dress.) It sound like all is okay. Even if he wears them more than you want.November 30, 2009 2:19 am at 2:19 am #818374luv2laffMember
clothing says alot about a person believe it or notNovember 30, 2009 2:46 am at 2:46 am #818375
I never buy clothing that talks about me, in private or otherwise.November 30, 2009 4:44 am at 4:44 am #818376oomisParticipant
“he also brought back a 98 on a recent gemara test. I think that this proves that a yeshiva guy CAN own jeans. What do you guys say? “
I guess denim fabric does not short out the brain cells in the Gemara Kup, after all.November 30, 2009 7:33 am at 7:33 am #818377haifagirlParticipant
Thanks ronrsr. I needed the chuckle.October 18, 2011 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #818378optimusprimeMember
Denim jeans are forbidden. If you want your son to stay in the Jewish community and raise a religious family, I highly suggest you incinerate the evil attire he brought home.October 18, 2011 8:40 pm at 8:40 pm #818379A Sheep without a SpleenMember
Thanks for the laugh, optimusOctober 18, 2011 9:22 pm at 9:22 pm #818380Sam2Participant
Wow, great way to revive a dead thread. Care to explain why denim jeans are forbidden? Why are they evil attire? And why can someone who wears them not raise a religious family?October 18, 2011 9:41 pm at 9:41 pm #818381optimusprimeMember
Always a pleasure to hear positive feedback.October 18, 2011 9:42 pm at 9:42 pm #818382ItcheSrulikMember
Sam2: If your religion forbids wearing jeans, then if you wear jeans you can’t raise a religious family because they’ll see through your hypocrisy right away.October 18, 2011 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #8183832scentsParticipant
Probably meant it in a sarcastic way.October 18, 2011 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #818384bptParticipant
“jeans i never knew he had”
No, No. Not “Jeans”. GENES.
What the OP meant is, the son is now showing a lineage that was until now, dormant. But after a stint in EY, the true inner self is shining thru.
I cannot believe that no one picked up on this.
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