May 6, 2009 2:07 pm at 2:07 pm #589751amesParticipant
He should understand this concept well
why the sudden…?May 6, 2009 2:29 pm at 2:29 pm #931585
yup 🙂 yungerman means young man.
I’m not quite sure what Rav Shach meant. Whether he was literal – the teacher should understand what he’s teaching or the tznius matter. Probably the latter because it would seem quite obvious that a teacher must understand very well the concept he’s teaching.
BTW, I think the Mishpacha should pay us for all the free advertising they’re getting here.May 6, 2009 2:31 pm at 2:31 pm #931586anonymisssParticipant
ames, is this espionage research?
~a~May 6, 2009 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #931587
ames: One thing I’ll tell you for sure. I’ve had female halacha teachers and male halacha teacher. The males are much better. They know the whole picture, not just that exact halacha they’re teaching (since they learn the whole gemara). Men should definitely teach halacha. Hashkafa I’ve also been taught by men and I was very impressed. They say things the way they should be said.May 6, 2009 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #931588SJSinNYCMember
Mepal, that is truly dependant on the depth of ones knowledge. I have had the pleasure of having great female halacha teachers as well as male (and some terrible ones in both categories as well).
I find the WORST teachers are the ones who have no concept of the variety of halachic opinions. We may generally follow one opinion, but there are always other piskei halacha out there. Rarely should things be taught in such absolute as that is not really the Torah way. Halacha should be understood as a progression, the way it evolved.May 6, 2009 3:06 pm at 3:06 pm #931589
I think it depends a lot on the age of the man, like Rav Shach said. (I have a younger looking uncle that’s a posek. He applied for a teaching position in a girls school and was turned down since he looked too young.) Interestingly, I had a man teacher teaching with his eyes closed. Another looked above our heads. Yet others looked straight at us. Each to their own…May 6, 2009 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #931590
SJS: you’re absolutely right. I’ve had a female halacha teacher that did not believe that there was other halacha opinions other than what she taught. And its really strange when that other halachic opinion is what you (as in, I) follow.
Of course there are exceptions to every rule. Not EVERY male/female teacher would for sure be great. I happened to have very nice experiences with my male teachers.May 6, 2009 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #931591
In high school & seminary I had male teachers & female teachers for various subjects, including chumash, navi, halacha, and hashkafa. Some of the male teachers were good, others less so. In high school we had a hilchos shabbos class with a local rav who is a major posek. I’d say he was probably the best halacha teacher I’ve had, male or female. Some of the male teachers tended to have more trouble controlling the class than female teachers.
In college most of my professors were male, but the female professors we had were well-qualified & generally better teachers.May 6, 2009 3:36 pm at 3:36 pm #931592
Thats another thing, anon. The chutzpa that goes on in front of men is NOT TO BE BELIEVED. These girls (maybe boys too) should be ashamed of themselves. (not that I’m trying to imply that there’s no chutzpa in front of ladies. I just feel its way worse when girls act all chutpahdik in front of men.)May 6, 2009 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #931593
I don’t claim to be an authority on explaining the words of a godol, but it seems pretty simple.
1. Yungerman – A man who sees the girls in the class as being the same age or a bit younger than girls he went out with is too young. A man who sees the girls in the class as being the same age as his daughters is safer.
2. Yiras shamayim needs no explanation.
3. He needs to understand what the issues are. Not just that there are issues but what they are. Otherwise, lines can be crossed with no ill intent.May 6, 2009 4:29 pm at 4:29 pm #931594SJSinNYCMember
This happened in my HS, but not while I was there.
The son of the dean, newly graduated from college started teaching 12th grade calculus. He and one of his students fell in love and got married. They did NOT start dating until after she graduated.
Then again, this wasn’t a Judaic studies class, but after that happened, I think they didnt hire young, male, unmarried teachers anymore.
My calculus teacher was a crazy (but brilliant) man who didnt really look at us. But, he didnt look at men either. I think it was just part of his oddities.May 6, 2009 4:41 pm at 4:41 pm #931596
ames, you wrote, “The rabbi’s point was, that no matter how good a female teacher is, she can’t possibly have the breadth and depth of knowledge in areas such as halacha and deep hashkafa.”
That really depends on the teacher. Many of the male teachers I’ve had for limudei kodesh subjects seemed to feel that they did not need to prepare a lesson, but that their “breadth & depth” of knowledge would suffice. These teachers were incorrect (except for the posek I mentioned previously); their lack of preparation hurt their ability to teach & probably contributed to their failure to control the class. I think if these male teachers had been teaching boys or young men, they would not have had this attitude.
The female teachers I’ve had usually prepared the lesson, so even if they had less “breadth & depth” of knowledge they were able to teach effectively.May 6, 2009 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #931598
ames, I agree that a well-prepared male teacher can potentially be more effective than a female teacher for the reasons you mentioned. I just didn’t experience it much myself.May 6, 2009 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #931599
Huh? you lost me with that third one.
ehr zohl gut farshtein dem inyan
This means basically, that if you were a man ames, you should not be allowed to teach at a girls school.May 6, 2009 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #931600
I would give you more than just my word, but the odds of having a run-down of the issues get mod approval on this site is slightly worse than hitting the Mega Millions jackpot.May 10, 2009 4:12 am at 4:12 am #931602shyMember
what does “oisgefrekt” mean?May 10, 2009 11:15 pm at 11:15 pm #931603
hey ames, I wonder where u got that one from…;)
shy: I think its a more complicated way to say ‘ask(ed)’.May 11, 2009 4:27 am at 4:27 am #931604JaxMember
a man tracht un gut lacht-? ??? ????? ??? ??? ????
”man plans & God laughs”-my fave yiddish phrase!May 11, 2009 8:40 am at 8:40 am #931605NobodyMember
I deviate here forgive me, but the original thread of Ames has prompted me to go off on a tangent.
I have listened to many people who think they speak yiddish and in fact will claim they speak yiddish but in fact very few people speak yiddish correctly and fluently nowadays.
Many words have been americanised or invented, accents abused and in fact when I listen to many people who think they speak yiddish I find it hard to comprehend exactly what they are saying as their yiddish is gramatically and vocabulary incorrect.
Yiddish is a rich beautiful language with many sayings that simply do not translate well and are in danger of being lost altogether due to new fangled variation being spoken today.
I speak fluent yiddish, the correct and original way with all the vocabulary much of which is not understood today – shame really as yiddish is an international Jewish language that is dying when it shouldn’t
End of rant !!May 11, 2009 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #931606oomisParticipant
gramatically and vocabulary incorrect.
Vocabularily???May 11, 2009 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #931607oomisParticipant
IMO, HEBREW should be the universal Jewish language, as it was meant to be, LONG before Yiddish ever came into existence. And please let’s not get into a Yiddish vs. Hebrew thread again. No point to it – everyone has a strong feeling on the subject, and we have re-hashed this to death.May 11, 2009 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #931608jewishfeminist02Member
Mepal, chutzpah is chutzpah. Why does it matter if girls are chutzpahdik toward men as opposed to women?
(Well, that didn’t take long, did it? I *knew* I’d find some male/female issue to get started arguing!)May 11, 2009 4:22 pm at 4:22 pm #931609NobodyMember
Ames – no way! I’m saying go for it, learn the basics then try to find someone who can further enrich your knowledge the correct way!
Yiddish is a language that will get you anywhere amongst yiden worldwideMay 11, 2009 4:46 pm at 4:46 pm #931610
Nobody – I am a prime example. I did not learn Yiddish until after I trained in several other languages. I am sure that my grammar and accent are as flawed as my vocabulary. However, no more so than native Yiddish speakers who try to speak MY native language (which is Ingleesh). Present company excluded. You have every right to rant about it, but I can make myself understood in Yiddish, and that’s worth something.May 11, 2009 4:49 pm at 4:49 pm #931611
In that case learn some Spanish tooMay 11, 2009 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #931614
JF2: you’re absolutely right. Chutzpa should definitely not be tolerated. I just think that when someone is being A. Chutzpadik AND B. in front of a man, is much worse.May 11, 2009 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #931615tzippiMember
SJS, about your story, yungerman, as I understand, is specifically referring to a young married man. So I guess Rav Shach meant an older, seasoned mechanech?May 11, 2009 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #931616areivimzehlazehParticipant
Nobody- you my grandma? 😉
You’re right though- unfortunately, it’s a dying generation and with it goes the languageFebruary 21, 2013 5:53 am at 5:53 am #931617WIYMember
What does “geit ah kuzeh” mean?
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