February 27, 2009 1:02 am at 1:02 am #589508WolfishMusingsParticipant
I’m curious about this and would like to see what people think. Here’s the situation:
You’ve been elected the king (or queen) of Brooklyn’s Jewish population. You have the power to set policy, establish or remove institutions and enforce decisions. I hesitate to say that you have unlimited funds, but you do have whatever funds are necessary to set up institutions. However, there are the following limitations:
1. You cannot control people. You have the power to make rules and the power to enforce them, but you cannot brainwash them. You can’t make them want to learn Torah every minute or not be sports fans or whatever.
2. You cannot change people’s religious leanings. You can, for example, declare that a person not daven in a shul belonging to a group (and enforce that decision) but you can’t tell them not to identify with the group. So a Satmar will still be a Satmar, an MO will still be an MO, a Yeshivish person will still be yeshivish, etc.
3. You cannot provide funds to people directly. So no handing every Jew a million dollars to solve the parnassah crisis. And no setting up an institution just for that purpose either.
4. You have no control over the non-Jewish population. They neither like you nor dislike you. As long as you don’t interfere with them, they won’t interfere with you.
In short, you can set policy for the Jewish community in Brooklyn*. You can set community standards, set organizational policy at schools, shuls, mikvaos, cemeteries, etc. You can build schools and shuls, order them closed and dictate policy. You can enforce your decisions with a police force.
You’re in charge. What would you do?
* Note: I only chose Brooklyn because it has more Jews in the US than anywhere else. Feel free to insert the name of your community instead.February 27, 2009 2:41 am at 2:41 am #1111296
I am in constant touch with Rav Elyashev Shlita, and do whatever he decrees.February 27, 2009 3:06 am at 3:06 am #1111297
I think brooklyn’s good already but a yeshivah that accepts evrey type of yidden and doesn’t get on your back if tuition is 3 hrs late would be niceFebruary 27, 2009 3:12 am at 3:12 am #1111298AL2Participant
hmmm…I think I would just move out of town 🙂February 27, 2009 3:44 am at 3:44 am #1111300
good one joseph i’ll do whatever the gedolim tell me to doFebruary 27, 2009 4:52 am at 4:52 am #1111301aziParticipant
get a clueFebruary 27, 2009 6:01 am at 6:01 am #1111302flatbush27Member
Date: 14th century
1: an order usually having the force of law
2 a: a religious ordinance enacted by council or titular headFebruary 27, 2009 6:25 am at 6:25 am #1111303beaconParticipant
You’re in charge of brooklyn jewry…What do you do?
Run.February 27, 2009 6:32 am at 6:32 am #1111304flatbush27Member
beacon: LOL!! i am so maskim!!February 27, 2009 8:07 am at 8:07 am #1111306asdfghjklParticipant
WolfishMusings: you get points for creativity!!!!!!!!!
beacon: good one!!!!February 27, 2009 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1111307tzippiMember
There is a serious lashon hara issue of inserting one’s own community, even if we don’t know your community. Even Brooklyn is problematic. I know you mean it in a global general way but it’s still parochial and prone to stereotyping.February 27, 2009 1:25 pm at 1:25 pm #1111308tzippiMember
P.S. But I do appreciate the concept though.February 27, 2009 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #1111309
The differences are what makes yidishkeit beautiful. Shivim Panim La’torah applies also to different minhagim people have. If everyone was universally the same the problems we have wouldn’t necessarily change, we would all just have the same issues as everyone else.February 27, 2009 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #1111310SJSinNYCMember
Wolf, I like this topic and think I need to mull this over.
Here is what I would do off the top of my head:
1) Sort of do the Village (by M. Night…) – Buy Iowa and move all frum people there (assuming they dont/cant move to Israel)
2) Reimplement a farming society – this would make Jews self sufficient. We would have a complete system – wheat (and other grains), fruits/veggies, dairy (which would be 100% chalav yisrael because its all frum Jews doing it), cattle etc. People would be getting excersize (being healthy), have pride in being self sufficient…all of this would be done with Jewish labor – no hiring others. We all have to contribute!
3) Establish a rotating learning schedule – except during harvest season, all men would have 1-2 days of just learning while others worked in the field and partial day learning other days.
4) Abolish money. This is a utopian society and we all help each other for the good of society, not for personal gain.
5) Abolish the current shidduch system (no more table cloth questions!). Reinstitute Tu B’Av.
6) Establish a school system without segregation. The school system will be rub based on learning styles rather than religious levels. Kids will be placed where the learning style works best FOR THEM, not whats best for the parents or shidduchim or anything else.
Ok this isnt a well thought out plan yet, but its a start 🙂February 27, 2009 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #1111311cantoresqMember
I send the money to Israel. Brooklyn can’t be saved.February 27, 2009 2:36 pm at 2:36 pm #1111312gavra_at_workParticipant
Allow “the invisible hand” to do its work.February 27, 2009 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #1111313
SJS, “5) Abolish the current shidduch system (no more table cloth questions!).”
I’m with you on that!February 27, 2009 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #1111315oomisParticipant
You’re in charge of brooklyn jewry…What do you do?
Take STRONG MEDS.February 27, 2009 5:17 pm at 5:17 pm #1111316areivimzehlazehParticipant
why are we focusing in on the ‘bad’?February 27, 2009 5:36 pm at 5:36 pm #1111317JotharMember
the point of this this thread is a theoretical exercise. By definition, you are making improvements to situations that need changing.
I would implement a mandatory mussar seder in all yeshivas, tack on a small mussar seder to every daf yomi, and make practical mussar part of every chassan and kallah class. This will help mitigate most of the other problems.February 27, 2009 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #1111318
I would have only one item on my agenda. I would place a tax on stores such as Oh Nuts, Pashkez, etc whereby they would be required to send me a large box of chocolate every Shabbos and Yom Tov.February 27, 2009 6:05 pm at 6:05 pm #1111319
lol squeak totally! I would also have different stores be required to send me lunch everyday!!February 27, 2009 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #1111320areivimzehlazehParticipant
food glorious food….March 1, 2009 7:07 pm at 7:07 pm #1111322
ames, when you have retirement benefits, you don’t care about these petty things 😉March 2, 2009 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1111323
You don’t know the half of it……. 😉March 8, 2009 10:05 am at 10:05 am #1111326ZachKessinMember
Run!March 8, 2009 11:11 am at 11:11 am #1111327aussieboyParticipant
I would take all the schools and shut them down and create a Jewish public school system that is controlled by a board.
– You are accepted based on your location (not on how much money you have or who your family is).
– It is tuition free (or a very low tuition costs).
– Boys and girls separate.
Now lets look at the downsides of such a thing.
1) One of the possible problems with this (and i mean real problems not problems like people wanting to send their child to a more exclusive school) is that without tuition it will be hard to maintain. This is not really a problem because,
– There are many people who if they are not paying tuition for their children that will still give something and since they do not need to give to 20 different schools they can give more to just one.
– There are many wealthy people who will give more (also because they wont have 20 different schools asking for money).
– You may be able to get government funding.
2) Another potential problem is that less teachers would be needed so many people would be out of a job. Not either a problem.
– You would still need most of the teachers because you would at the same time need more classes since there are more students so most of the teachers would still have a job.
Now lets look at the upsides of such a thing
1) The teachers can be better screened so that you do not need to worry about anything happening (as has happened too often)
2) It would be cheaper and save families a lot of money.
3) You can have classes for higher and lower levels of learning.
6) It is public so it does not become a business where money is more important than your child.
This is one of the things I would do if I could run Brooklyn (or any large Jewish community)March 8, 2009 8:57 pm at 8:57 pm #1111328kapustaParticipant
aussieboy I’d vote you in if all your other ideas are this good 🙂
I think I would do a central shadchanus program, rather than having many separate ones, and people would only be allowed to ask relatively normal questions (not something like did her great great grandmother die a natural death. not that I’ve ever heard it, but thats what the potential of most of the questions asked today are)March 8, 2009 11:13 pm at 11:13 pm #1111329SJSinNYCMember
Aussie, what hashkafa and halacha levels would you teach? How would you keep the entire student body happy? Are you teaching strong secular subjects as well?March 9, 2009 1:24 am at 1:24 am #1111330aussieboyParticipant
Halacha can be taught but ONLY actual halachos. haskafah and chumros are for the parents to teach thier children at home. (If you are afraid of your children going against a certain chumrah, such as cholov yisroel, because children often share snacks then you can make your child aware of it and tell them to be careful). (NOTE: this is NOT the place to discuss whether cholov yisroel is a chumrah or not it is just an example)
This may cause children to be influenced by kids on a diffrent haskafah level but lets be honest, kids are getting those influences anyway whether the school claims to be on a certain level or not.
This also allows for each parent to decide individually how they want thier child to be brought up rather than a principal or rebbe in a school.
As for the secular subjects i believe there should be a very strong emphasis on the secular subjects but since not everyone shares my opinion there can be diffrent tracks. Some having more learning and less secular subjects, while others have less learning but more secular subjects. (i believe such a system is used in Darchei Torah in Far Rockaway)March 12, 2009 2:04 am at 2:04 am #1111331
yeah, but everyone has different hashkofos i don’t think you can change the way people look down at each other but it would be nice if u couldMarch 12, 2009 6:36 am at 6:36 am #1111333kapustaParticipant
aussieboy I like your idea but I think even having classes with different learning tracks as you say and a point from before, classes with faster and slower learning. I am not familiar with the system of Darchei Torah, but I cant imagine how something like that can work in a society like ours. for educational purposes it sounds wonderful but wont the same thing happen with the classes that is happening with schools and seminaries (like by shidduchim, he/she is in the slower learning class, not for my child to associate with) I think many issues with living in a large community could be solved by changing the attitude of our society, which, is not very likely.
IMO, the ideal society would be 1. something that hasn’t happened in thousands of years, and that would be to have one community leader, less (no) fighting over whos more yeshivish/MO, and a system of takanos and kol korehs (practical ones) might actually work because the people who would go against it would not have anyone to defend them and would be outcasts. 2. a society that isnt plagued by money, or desire for it. people would be able to live within their means and it would remove a very materialistic attitude and replace it with calm, people would not get sick as a result of money pressures (ever see the inserts in some of the jewish weeklys about a father of several girls in Israel and needs to buy apartments for all of them, and went through whatever because of money stress?) 3. learning is not for everyone. I like the idea of a yissachar-zevulan relationship but its hardly done today. not everyone is cut out for learning and not everyone should be, I’m not saying not to learn, just dont do it because its the “in” thing to do.
I read through the comments when the thread first went up and I just reread the last few ones now. I apologize if I repeated someone elses idea. I think part of what I said is whats “supposed” to happen after mashiach comes, but thats ideal society so I guess I’m not too far off. 🙂November 6, 2015 3:47 am at 3:47 am #1111334
I would open a school where every class has a dog and cat.November 6, 2015 5:13 am at 5:13 am #11113362qwertyParticipant
You asked for it…
1) All Yeshivah’s to teach practical mussar and to encourage students to discuss baal teshuvah type of questions why/when/how…etc.
2) All kollel/beis medrash programs to teach practical business halachos.
3) All kollel/beis medrash programs to give a stipends based on weekly test scores.
4) Decree for all the boys and girls to start shidduch dating at the same age. Don’t have to force the people just tell the organizations to encourage it.
5) Create many type of job courses (separate men/ladies hours) and without prerequisites. Also, it should be free to attend but only have to pay for it after you find a job.
6) Free gym with free trainers and free diet counselors for anyone who wants to attend it but you would have to pay for it if you slack off. (With monthly contracts not life contracts.)
7) Create and uphold Takonos for Simchas and maybe also for apparel / sheitals / cars / carriages…etc.
8) Free Netspark type of internet filter for your mobile and home that is paid by replacing goish internet ads with yiddish ones. Every Kehilla will have its own standards levels but to be part of a Kehilla you would need to install a filter with at least their level or higher. Anyone can type in anyone elses phone number or address and check if their filter is still active.
9) Anyone who is poor will be provided for from a communal Maiser fund. No need to go shul to shul, door to door. And this way people might give more Maiser towards this fund since there will be less chances of fraud.
10) Declare BP and Flatbush as a separate and independent city and create a real Eruv there 🙂November 6, 2015 1:02 pm at 1:02 pm #1111337ItcheSrulikMember
Build a beis medrash onsite, hire some homebrewer friends and expand.
… Oh wait, I thought you said Brooklyn brewery.November 6, 2015 1:51 pm at 1:51 pm #1111338
As King, I execute all the Mechallel Shabbos.
/rattlingthelibsNovember 6, 2015 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #1111339zahavasdadParticipant
Ban Gefilte Fish and make everyone eat Sushi insteadNovember 6, 2015 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #1111340Avi KParticipant
I would organize aliya flights including transfer of businesses and other assets. The question is whether the non-Jewish population would consider this interfering with them as some will no longer be employed by Jews but the new gentile owners of assets that can only be sold rather than transferred will keep them on the payroll.November 6, 2015 2:41 pm at 2:41 pm #1111341nfgo3Member
If I were king/queen of Brooklyn Jewelry, the first thing I would do is buy a big safe.November 6, 2015 4:15 pm at 4:15 pm #1111342charliehallParticipant
If I were put in charge of Brooklyn Jewry I would immediately resign.November 8, 2015 1:04 am at 1:04 am #1111343
I would too!November 8, 2015 2:38 am at 2:38 am #1111344
Who says you have the right to resign?November 8, 2015 2:43 am at 2:43 am #1111345
There’s nothing that says I cantNovember 8, 2015 5:13 am at 5:13 am #1111346555Participant
2qwerty: Where would you separate bp and flatbush? What’s your boundaries for each?November 8, 2015 5:56 am at 5:56 am #1111347November 8, 2015 6:14 am at 6:14 am #1111348
Hatzalah’s border for BP/Flatbush is McDonald Avenue.November 8, 2015 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #1111349Avi KParticipant
Sorry, Joseph. The (Yoreh Deah 312,48) says that the king can only punish those who are over on mitzvoth ben adam l’chaveiro and that he has no business with mechallelei Shabbat.November 8, 2015 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #1111350
Right. The Torah mandates that (and specifies the penalty). The King can insure the Torah prescribed rules are enforced by the courts.November 8, 2015 8:32 pm at 8:32 pm #1111351B1g B0yParticipant
Nobody caresNovember 9, 2015 11:20 am at 11:20 am #1111352
Wow you’re good!
Anyway, no one says being a light onto the nations means working in the government
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