October 22, 2010 2:18 pm at 2:18 pm #592738Y.W. EditorKeymaster
It has been mentioned numerous times in both the Coffee Room and the comments on the News section, that R’ Moshe Shternbuch, Shlita, Av Beis Din of the Eida HaChareidis, supports R’ Yehuda Levin. Having not heard of this on our own, we at Yeshiva World News decided to do the prudent thing and investigate for ourselves whether or not this was the case.
We contacted R’ Moshe twice. The first time we provided him with transcripts of some of R’ Levin’s recent public comments, as well as some of our own articles on the site. The following is what R’ Moshe had to say (and what he didn’t have to say).
1. R’ Levin is on the correct side of the “mishkav zochor” argument. But did not offer any other sort of “smicha” or support.
2. “In Principle” one should always vote for a candidate who is against gay rights
3. When asked if better not to vote, like R’ Levin says, when both candidates are “pro-toeva” R’ Moshe responded “I don’t know about American Politics
4. He refused to either endorse, or denounce R’ Levin’s decisions of late to conduct his objections against the Agudah and other Frum Yidden, using the mediums of public media and You Tube (The Rov was asked this on 3 separate occasions and refused to answer the question all 3 times).
5. When asked about R’ Levin claiming that it was impossible that R’ Shteinman and R’ M. Kotler said to vote for a “pro-toeva” candidate. R’ Shternbuch’s reply was “I guess Lakewood is different”.
After these discussions with the Rov. We at Yeshiva World News have decided that the statements claiming that R’ Shternbuch “supports” the actions of R’ Levin is quite a stretch. While we will agree that we see no evidence that R’ Moshe objects to R’ Levin, never the less, a non-objection does not mean there is a haskama.
We have yet to find a living Gadol who is on record as supporting R’ Levin.October 22, 2010 2:22 pm at 2:22 pm #703096
Thank You for that inquiry.October 22, 2010 2:24 pm at 2:24 pm #703097
Rav Moshe Shternbuch is on the record supporting Rav Yehuda Levin when Rav Shternbuch asked Rav Levin to organize the American participation in the protest against the toeiva parade in Yerushlayim.October 22, 2010 2:30 pm at 2:30 pm #703098SacrilegeMember
Interesting how Lakewood is different because it is muttar to vote for a Pro-Gay Rights Candidate when they will be throwing out programs left right and center.
No really, the hypocrisy entertains me.October 22, 2010 2:33 pm at 2:33 pm #703099
“I don’t know about American Politics”
Vi ken dos zein?October 22, 2010 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #703100arcParticipant
Wow thank you. I was bothered by the thought so I appreciate the inquiry.
squeak, it’s very normal for gedolim in a country not to be familiar with another country’s ins and outs. Many years ago R’ Eliashiv sent my R”Y to America to R’ Moshe because he had an “American Shailoh”.October 22, 2010 3:12 pm at 3:12 pm #703101
So the Ruach Hakodesh servers are down this morning?October 22, 2010 3:18 pm at 3:18 pm #703102
Lest I be misunderstood, I will clarify that I am playing the devil’s advocate. To those who believe that the gedolim can and do make halachik decisions in a vacuum, relying on some mystical powers to achieve an immutable position: Let this answer be a proof that gedolim DO require input from this world.October 22, 2010 3:52 pm at 3:52 pm #703103HelpfulMember
squeak, – and to further your thought, when the gedolim DO use others for trusted judgements, let no one denegrate their utilizing their trusted advisors.October 22, 2010 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #703104
Are the advisors gedolim in their own right? Are they never charlatans?October 22, 2010 4:35 pm at 4:35 pm #703105WolfishMusingsParticipant
So the Ruach Hakodesh servers are down this morning?
That has to be one of the most interesting lines I’ve read in a long time. 🙂
The WolfOctober 22, 2010 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #703106HelpfulMember
squeak – they are trusted by the Gedolim, who know them firsthand better than any of us. And as you yourself pointed out, they are needed to determine the facts.October 22, 2010 5:45 pm at 5:45 pm #703107
Squeak, yasher koach.October 22, 2010 6:22 pm at 6:22 pm #703108Darchei NoamMember
We have yet to find a living Gadol who is on record as supporting R’ Levin.
The Kashauer Rov zt’l supported him; and the Kashauer Rov shlita supports him currently. Raya? The entire incident when Paladino spoke against toeiva, occured in the Kashauer Rov’s Beis Kenesses!October 22, 2010 7:34 pm at 7:34 pm #703110an ideaParticipant
Maybe someone can clarify something? Does the torah forbid mishkav zachor for goyim?October 22, 2010 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #703111
an idea: Absolutely without equivocation. Together with capital punishment as its penalty. I posted the sources elsewhere on this site.October 22, 2010 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #703112mw13Participant
“To those who believe that the gedolim can and do make halachik decisions in a vacuum, relying on some mystical powers to achieve an immutable position: Let this answer be a proof that gedolim DO require input from this world.”
100% correct. However, that does not mean we can simply assume that the Gedolim were misinformed whenever we don’t like their psak.October 22, 2010 7:53 pm at 7:53 pm #703113
An idea, yes — it is one of the gilui arayos prohibited for a non-Jew.
Helpful, there is a gemorah in Cheilek which describes who some crooks deceived Ahiya haShiloni and got a misconstrued p’sak out of him and the bad consequances it had. One of the Bnei-Brak poskim (who was recently niftar) describes in his seifer how these things happen nowdays. I just don’t remember the name of the sefer at this second.October 22, 2010 8:15 pm at 8:15 pm #703114mw13Participant
an idea: “Does the torah forbid mishkav zachor for goyim? “
I can’t say for certain that the Torah does explicitly forbid it (but I’m certainly not ruling it out). However, in this week’s parsha Sodom was razed to the ground for, among other reasons, mishkav zachor. That certainly seems to show that the Hashem doesn’t quite love goyim having mishkav zachor …October 22, 2010 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #703115WIYMember
Yes.October 22, 2010 9:01 pm at 9:01 pm #703116charliehallParticipant
Thank you for this information.October 23, 2010 6:55 pm at 6:55 pm #703117MoqMember
Excellent YWN! Thank you for clarifying that. Excellent, excellent, excellent.
An Idea- It is most certainly forbidden. Rashi quotes V’Davak Bah, V’Lo B’Zachar (it is a Gemara in Mesechta Avodah Zara); presumably it is in the catergory of gilui arayos, but that is speculation.October 24, 2010 12:22 am at 12:22 am #703118SacrilegeMember
“Maybe someone can clarify something? Does the torah forbid mishkav zachor for goyim?”
Does this mean we have to be the world police, while we are graciously being hosted in their Countries?
Keeping a low profile has always been better for us.October 24, 2010 3:41 am at 3:41 am #703119
Moq, a speculation?!? I love your kulos and sfeikos creations! It is mefurash in the Rambam, Hilchos Melochim 9:5, that mishkav zochur is an isur of arayos for a non-Jew.October 24, 2010 3:42 am at 3:42 am #703120
The sefer is “Az nidabru”.October 24, 2010 5:45 am at 5:45 am #703121charliehallParticipant
My wife and I spent an hour and a half this afternoon reading commentary after commentary on the destruction of Sedom. We did not see any Jewish commentaries that attributed its destruction to mishkav zachor. They attribute it variously to greed, inhospitability to strangers, corruption of the judicial system, cruelty to the poor, and a lack of even ten righteous individuals in the entire city. The issur of mishkav zachor is in Sefer Vayikra.October 24, 2010 6:51 am at 6:51 am #703122HealthParticipant
Charlie -This is from a website by Rabbi Greenbaum- “Gang-rape of two apparent visiting strangers was the Sodomites idea of a “gay” evening.” Right after that, Hashem said I’m destroying Sedom!October 24, 2010 9:40 am at 9:40 am #703123nmelssMember
It is an open pasuk in Bereishis. Lot invited the two angels into his home as guests. The people of Sodom saw this, demanded Lot hand them over so they could engage in homosexuality with them. Lot refused (and instead offered his two daughters!) The people of Sodom then attacked, leading the angels to destroy the city.October 24, 2010 11:44 am at 11:44 am #703124HaLeiViParticipant
Check the Midrash.October 24, 2010 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #703125QuestionForYouParticipant
Just curious: Did you check Berayshis, Perek 19, Posuk 5, the Rashi commentary? The one where Rashi ZT”L specifically states regarding, “Bring them out to us, that we may know them,” the words, “Mishkav Zochor” ?
I wonder why the act is called Sodomy?October 24, 2010 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #703126apushatayidParticipant
Just curious. Did YWN ask the Rav Shlita, about YWN?
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