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JDB,
Firstly, the fact that y can only point to one MO yeshiva (university) is exactly the point. (And one beis midrash… Lakewood and Mir alone have numerous packed batei Midrash.)Secondly, even if you are are right (all night, top learners, major poskim… hu???) which is quite debatable (I’m being courteous), the percentage of guys doing that in the YU system is very small given the number of students enrolled yeshiva college and riets. There are a few thousand guys in the institution, and very few of them are the way you described. Things always look better from the outside…
Thirdly, the vast majority of the serious learners in YU will NOT be sending their children to YU. They will be sending their children to the REGULAR Yeshiva systems in both EY and America. Many of the more serious learners in YU don’t even want to be there. It’s either parental pressure or other reasons which have forced them to be there and they are making the best of it. They don’t believe in it. Many/Most (obviously not all) of the YU rosh yeshivas sent their sons through the REGULAR yeshivas and daughters to regular BY’s and they are now part of the regular Charedi world, many of them learning full time in EY or Lakewood.
[In general, I’m not sure why it makes sense to compare the lowest caliber of the yeshiva system to the highest caliber of the non-yeshiva system… apples and apples….]
As I said, MO is terminally ill.
Fact: Modern Orthodoxy is dying. And just like all splinters of authentic Judaism (Tzidukim, Baitusim, Christians, and the like) whose approach to Torah is not in line with mesorah and Gedolei Torah, Modern Orthodoxy will die out as well or simply fall off the Jewish map. It’s just a matter of time. Torah lives in the mesora. The mesora is with the Yeshivas.
Actually, people ARE listening to the rules. The fact that a small, teeny-tiny fraction (100’s out of MANY hundreds of thousands) did not listen does not mean that people, in general, are not listening to the rules. Please do not get thrown by YWN’s fake news. They need to do tshuva.
I hope this will be the end of this thread, as I am not clear why it was started, to begin with, however, I think it is important to make clear:
The Charedi world is proud of the fact that we do not react like the rest of the world and that we do not get caught up in their trends or their panic. Everything we do is filtered through Torah as taught to us by Gedolei Torah. The Charedi world was just as nervous as the rest of the world (even those without internet, by the way) when the pandemic started spreading, but instead of reacting out of fear, we turned to the Gedolei Torah for guidance. They advised us to keep the learning going, as long as possible at all levels. That was a very hard psak for us, but we did it because it was the right thing to do. While the rest of the world was panic-reacting we were following Torah, with emotional mesiras nefesh. You cannot imagine how scary it was to send our children to school every day. But we did it with simcha knowing that it was what Hashem wanted. At the very same time (FYI, 3 weeks ago- not as was claimed above as “3 weeks too late”) the Charedi Rabbanim were very firm that all the mandates of the MInistry of Health must be kept and even the yeshivas- despite their remaining open- had to be careful not to have more than 10 in a room etc. We did all of that as well. When the Gedolim paskened that it was time to close the shuls and mosdos we did so, with heavy hearts, but with the security of knowing that we handled this entire nisayon according to the dictates of Torah. We rose to the challenge, despite the challenge.
We, in the Charedi world, are proud of the way we handled this crisis. Those who did not listen to the Gedolim and persisted on keeping their shuls and mosdos open will have to answer in shamayim. However they were only a small fraction of this extremely large and wonderful population. We are confident the Olam HaCharedi has given nachas to Hashem by conducting ourselves according to His mandate, despite our personal anxieties. The response of the Charedi world al pi Torah and Gedolei Torah stands as a shining example of mi k’amcha and should serve as a zchus for Kal Yisroel and all of humanity.Rational.
Only Hashem knows how many lives were saved by the bnei Torah squeezing out that last additional week of learning.[You also, clearly, have no idea what’s going on the charedi world as your facts are totally off.]
One thing is for sure, your comment above certainly didn’t save lives, if anything the opposite: sinas chinum, lashon hara and bizui talmidei chachamim are devastating to Klal Yisroel’s safety, rachmana litzlan.
What you wrote will be on the internet forever and testify against you after 120. How about you make a cheshbon hanefesh? [You would have lost nothing by not writing that comment… you may have lost everything by writing it… Is that “Rational”?????]
I am a proud member of the Israeli Charedi community and am extremely upset at the continuous assertions that the “Charedi Population” is not listening to the Health Ministry’s guidelines. I along with my family, neighbors and entire community have been dutifully staying in my house, as per the Ministry of Health’s rules for the past 3 weeks and as the Charedi Rav of my neighborhood (and actually any Charedi Rav I know) instructed 3 weeks ago. I do not know any of my Charedi friends who are not doing the exact same thing- with great mesiras nefesh (likely more than our secular brothers and sisters) given the larger families and often smaller places of residence, yet we are doing it- many, many 10’s of thousands of us, including those families with special needs children. I have painfully refrained from davening with a minyan for weeks and so has my son. These types of stereotyping creates animosity towards a group that does not deserve it.
If one feels the need to make a particular community look bad, please be accurate about who it is. Make it clear that a particular neighborhood or neighborhoods are not keeping to the rules. I have friends in Bnei Brak who have been keeping the rules for weeks, but YWN’s articles make it sound as if there is no such thing. It is inaccurate and disparaging to refer to the “The Charedi population…” when speaking about a small demographic within that world. According to YWN’s journalistic guidelines I recommend that instead of saying that “Charedim are not keeping the regulations”, say “White people are not keeping the regulations” They are white also, and once precision doesn’t matter, might as well, go all the way.