dancingmom

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  • in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1406074

    dancingmom
    Participant

    I wish I knew how to insert a photo of the Krias Kodesh from the Gedolei Hador about the wigs but I can’t seem to figure out how to do it- I’ll type it up directly word for word (you can read it on page 137 in the Unique Princess) It’s very official- signed and sealed by the Gedolim

    Summary of the Laws of Modesty
    Written by Beth Din Tzedek “Mishmar HaTorah,”
    Under the leadership of Maranan Verabanim, the Gedolei Hador shlita,
    Maran Hagaon Rabbi Yosef Shalom Elyashiv shlita and Maran Hagaon Rabbi Shemuel Halevi Wosner shlita
    (this Krias Kodesh is also signed by Rav Aaron Steinman, Rav Ya’akov Aryeh Alter, Rav Michal Yehudah Lefkowitz, Rav Nissim Karelitz, Rav Chayim Kanievsky among others)
    Head Coverings
    Those who wear a sheitel (wig) must be particular that:
    1) They do not appear to be unmarried. It should be clearly recognizable to all that she is a married woman. One must therefore avoid any feature whose purpose is to give the sheitel a natural look.
    e.g.:
    – a white parting or “skin top”- scalp-colored net
    – a girlish style
    2) the sheitel should not have a wild look or be long. (The Gedolei Hador have described this as pritzus). The maximum permitted length is:
    – At the back- no longer than just covering the neck; and under no circumstances should it pass the
    shoulder line;
    – At the front – the hair should not cover the cheeks

    In a letter from Rav Elyashiv signed by Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shteinman and Rav Wosner in Tishrei 5771 it states:
    “… And I have already publically stated my opinion that the laws of modesty formulated by the Beis Din “Mishmar HaTorah,” which was established by me, are neither fences nor stringencies, but rather they are part of the body of Torah law, and that anyone who detracts from them is transgressing Das Yehudis.
    The obligation to observe and keep these laws is not incumbent only on the women. Rather, the head of every house in his home must make sure to stregthen the members of his household and his offspring.”

    Hmmm, so I don’t think stating that Rav Elyashiv supported natural looking wigs is at all accurate (neither does Rav Shteinman, Rav Chaim Kanievsky and many other Gedolim)- regardless of what his children and grandchildren wear

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1406072

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Gaon-how nice and tidy (and extremely condescending) it is for you (and everyone else) to write off what I am saying as “interpretations of these books” etc..- a very convenient way to ignore the valid and sourced info I’m posting.

    These “interpretations” are not my own nor are they just opinions of people who lack the knowledge and stature to say this info.
    Obviously the Chofetz Chaim was referring to uncovered hair but his words made it clear that the mitzvah of kisui rosh is all about modesty- as do many other sefarim on this topic. Many Gedolim have made this clear too.
    Rav Elyashiv and Rav Auerbach wrote letters blessing those women who wore tichels (I posted a few of them already) and they CLEARLY stated that one is not allowed to wear a natural looking wig (you could hear Rav Elyashiv saying that it is assur in a shiur he gave! What other proof do you need??).
    I never wrote that they said a wig is assur, I wrote how they did not hold that the natural looking wigs were allowed (again, it doesn’t matter what their children and grandchildren wear, that is a very weak way to prove anything, we never look at a Gadols children to determine where he held)
    I will post the words of mishmar Hatorah in a few minutes… (there’s no arguing with that)

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1406078

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Rav Elyashiv actually held that a wig cannot be longer than the highest vertebra on the back. And he held that the tichel is the ideal head covering.
    On page 133 of the Unique Princess:

    The Laws of Modesty
    A woman’s Behavior in the Presence of men
    Written by HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Zilberstein shlita and approved by Maran HaGaon Rabbi Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita
    – If she wears a sheitel, wig- the sheitel must look like a wig. It must be styled modestly and must not be longer than the highest vertebra on the back

    – IN THE VIEW OF MARAN HAGAON RABBI YOSEF SHOLOM ELYASHIV, SHLITA, IT IS PREFERABLE TO COVER ONE’S HAIR WITH A KERCHIEF RATHER THAN A WIG

    That’s why his Rebbetzin wore a tichel – because Rav Elyashiv held that this is the best way to cover the hair

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1405799

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Amazing how dismissive we are of the Chofetz Chaim and other Poskim I mentioned – I think my points are very well sourced. The books that I studied have tremendous haskamos- from Rav Elyashiv himself and many other Gedolim. My Rebbetzin wrote her book under the guidance of Rav Elyashiv- he read the entire book as did his son in law Rav Zilberstein. This is first hand information.
    It says, “The halachic opinions that permit the wearing of wigs were talking about wigs that were short, unnatural looking, and “wiggy”. Such wigs were in use a century ago, explains Maran HaGaon Rav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita. They were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place.” (The Unique Princess, page 103)

    Gaon said- “Attractive and beautifying is NOT what the issue is, as quoted by many above.
    The issue in concern are the wigs that attract attention either by length or other methods, not by the fact of it’s “natural look”

    Attractive and beautifying is exactly what the issue is about- do you realize that you’re totally contradicting yourself? The wigs that are long and have “other methods” are attracting and beautifying as are wigs with a “natural look”. They are one and the same. Wiggy looking wigs are only allowed precisely because they don’t beautify and attract.

    What their daughters and granddaughters wear on their heads is not relevant. Many Gedolims children don’t follow what their father and grandfather paskened (I’m not chas vashalom disparaging Rav Elyashivs children and grandchildren, I have no idea what they wear on their heads. I do know that his Rebbetzin only wore a tichel)

    You can hear Rav Elyashiv saying the following words- they were recorded for all to hear (I have the recording):
    These are the words of the Rav Shlita exactly as recorded in a shiur he gave in his bais midrash translated into English:

    Rav: Even though there’s a dispute among the Poskim whether it’s mutar or ossur to wear a sheitel, if they walk as if their hair is revealed, the way those that are not covering their hair walk, they are violating an issur gamur, it’s mamish, it’s emes like ervah.
    The issur is as follows-
    If they go with a sheitel like the times 100 years ago, then of course this is allowed, even a drop nicer. But, it should not be the way they go today. All those that go today, it looks like hair for sure and this is definitely assur, this nobody was mattir.
    …A woman with the wig of today the way she goes, it’s mamish ervah, it looks like hair, there is no difference, regarding this there is no heter, what they were mattir then was the peah nochris.
    the questioner: She is violating das yehudis, she should go out without a kesubah?
    Rav: yes!
    questioner: yes?
    Rav: the answer is, that the husband is acting the way he is supposed to. But if he is also like her…
    questioner: Does an ehrlich yid (a kosher Jew, a true Jew) must divorce his wife if she wears a sheitel like this?
    Rav: He doesn’t have to divorce her, he must tell her that it’s assur!

    Clearly Rav Elyashiv did not endorse natural looking wigs- please don’t misquote him
    Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach (whom my Rebbetzin also knew personally) had the same views as Rav Elyashiv
    It says, “Maran Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l, expressed the same concern. As he once put it to Rav Dan Segal, shlita: “They cover their hair, and then make every effort to make it look uncovered. Therefore, in my opinion this is a loathsome thing. But who can we talk to?”

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1405806

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashivzt”l believed that it was more praiseworthy for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief than with a wig. In his words, “Since the wearing of a wig is questionable according to halacha, it is definitely preferable to wear a kerchief since this is a matter of halacha.”

    And in a letter written by one of his top tamidim Rav Karp it says:
    “Many times, we heard from Rav Elyashiv zt”l, how pained he was by this great breach of tznius,
    and how much he encouraged Jewish women to go with a mitpachat, which he considered “Glatt” , because even the old wigs, were a matter of controversy among the poskim, and from then on to today, the Yetzer Hara has not rested to produce different styles of wigs, the common denominator of which is to stimulate the Yetzer Hara and cause the men of Israel to sin, and it is a double obligation for us to cast aside this pritzut, and for sure anyone who is a Ben Torah– Heaven forbid that he should be lenient in this matter–
    and let this be the first stringency that he takes upon himself, especially as (today’s wigs) can create a Michshol for the Rabbim (a pitfall for the masses). And “Ashrei” (fortunate/blessed) is one who separates
    himself and who REFUSES to allow today’s wigs into his home. And in this merit, he will merit children who are Talmidei Chachamim and Tzaddikim.

    (I have this all in hebrew but for some reason when I copy and paste the Hebrew it doesn’t post)

    It’s ALL about beautifying and making oneself attractive outside – that is the entire issue with most of todays sheitels. And natural looking wigs fall under that catagory too- they are beautifying just by the fact that they look like the woman’s hair! And hair is beautifying

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1405511

    dancingmom
    Participant

    From the sefer “Avodas Pnim” which Peninim tznius groups learn worldwide- read, reviewed and approved of by Rabbi Yaakov Ephraim Forchheimer (Posek of Lakewood, NJ), Rabbi Dovid Weinberger of Congregation Shaaray Tefila, Lawrence, NY and Rabbi Usher Eckstein

    On page 87 it says:
    “It is a Torah obligation for a married woman to cover her hair whenever she is in a public area or appears among a large number of people. Chazal have given the hair of the married woman the status of ervah. This means that the hair, as is the case of any other part of the female body that is labeled ervah, can cause a man who sees it to feel attracted to her.
    In the eyes of the halachah, a married woman is an eishes ish, which indicates a special and elevated status. When the Chasan places the ring on her finger under the chuppah, he says to her, “Harei at mekudeshes li- You are hereby designated to me.” The word “mekudeshes” means that she is now set aside for her husband. She has entered into an exclusive relationship with him alone and must be especially careful to avoid contact and socializing with any other man. Accordingly, part of her beauty should be withheld from the public eye. Certainly she should be dressed pleasantly and graciously at all times, but she should not display her full natural chein for everyone to see. This is accomplished by covering her hair, because the hair has particular feminine appeal.
    Interestingly, the Gemara tells us that Chava had to cover her hair only after the sin of eating from the eitz ha-daas. Had she not caused Adam to sin, the yetzer hora would have been far less intense, and this symbol would not have been necessary. One the yetzer hara was internalized, it became a far more potent force, and it became necessary to safeguard her from all forms of immorality. Covering her hair to conceal its natural beauty became an extra measure of tznius to fight the yetzer hara of immorality.”

    The wigs today are not concealing a womans beauty- there’s no argument there.
    I cant understand what the point is of arguing about the purpose of the mitzvah of kisui rosh- Jewish married women are covering their hair for tznius- period (why else would we be covering our hair??). Most of todays wigs are not tznius because they are causing women to look more attractive, not less attractive- CASE CLOSED.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1405507

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Kisui rosh is clearly about modesty. The Chofetz Chaim wrote a sefer “Geder Olam” explaining the great punishment a woman brings upon herself and her husband if she walks around with her hair uncovered as this is a severe breach of modesty. He keeps repeating how immodest it is for a woman to walk around with uncovered hair –
    In Chapter 7 which starts off with “An explanation of the greatness of the character trait of modesty, the reward for being modest in this world and in Olam Haba, and in an opposite sense, G-d forbid, her “reward” if she follows a lifestyle of immodesty”
    It says further on:
    “Therefore, a woman must accustom herself to the character trait of modesty, and in so doing it will be good for her here in this world and there in Olam Haba.
    Now, from all this we can think deeply about how much a wife must be careful in this matter of her hair, or her arms or her chest, that they should not be seen outside.
    Also, the Zohar in perushat Naso was very strict in this regard, that the hair of a (married) woman should not be visible at all, quoted here as follows: Rebbe Chizkiyah said: “Insanity should be invoked on any man who allows his wife to let her hair be seen in public, as this is one of the pillars of modesty which is the responsibility of the woman. The woman who exposes her hair in public to enhance/beautify her appearance causes poverty in her family and is the cause for her children to be simple and devoid of any importance, and will cause bad things to happen to her family. What was the cause of all this; her hair, which was apparent from under her head covering. And if this is so in her own house, how much even more so it an enormous arrogance to appear like that in public… ”
    So if todays wigs are enhancing and beautifying a womans appearance (unlike the wigs from years ago which were quite unattractive), how is this not a great breach of tznius?? Why is this different than a woman walking around with her own hair showing- which is usually not even as nice as the current wigs? The wigs today are having the same effect on men as a woman’s natural hair (actually much more so)
    Kol hakavod to those women who are wearing short, stiff wiggy wigs, those are modest as they do not beautify the woman wearing it, but most women under 60 are not wearing wigs like that anymore.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1405504

    dancingmom
    Participant

    I was not going to respond to any of the comments posted after my last post but this has become a totally one sided conversation with many falsehoods being promoted.
    Gaon- contrary to what you posted, I learned about this mitzvah under the guidance of very learned and chashuv Rabbanim and Rebbetzins who were quite well informed on the topic.
    One Rebbetzin who I learned with actually spoke directly to Rav Elyashiv many times about the situation of todays sheitels – Rav Elyashiv was extremely concerned about the pritzus of most of todays wigs and he urged this Rebbetzin to write a book about the topic- which she did. This book has Rav Elyashiv’s approbation among many others (Rav Elyashiv’s Rebbetzin only wore a tichel with no sheitel underneath)
    In this book it clearly states Rav Elyashivs preference for the tichel and his guidelines for what is considered a modest wig (most of the wigs today do not meet these guidelines at all) – there is also a whole section in the book by Rav Zilberstein about modesty and wigs.
    Again- I know that there is a heter for a wig (which was a great debate among Poskim) my point (which is clearly not being understood by the other posters on this thread) is that most of the wigs today are not modest, they beautify the woman wearing it- which defeats the purpose of the mitzvah of kisui rosh. A woman’s head covering is meant to conceal a woman’s beauty – most of the wigs today highlight a woman’s beauty. The wigs from years ago did not make a woman more attractive even if they were made out of human hair. The technology was not the same as today.
    There are many letters by recent Gedolim stating how most of todays wigs are a great breach of modesty- they are accentuating what they are meant to conceal. Arguing about this point which is so clearly obvious is a waste of time and energy.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1405516

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashivzt”l believed that it was more praiseworthy for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief than with a wig. In his words, “Since the wearing of a wig is questionable according to halacha, it is definitely preferable to wear a kerchief since this is a matter of halacha.”

    הואיל והנידון דפאה נכרית היא נידון בעיק ההלכה, אזי ברור שעדיף מטפחת שהוא ענין על פי הלכה וכך פרסם תלמידו הגאון ר’ משה מרדכי קארפ שליט” א מו”צ בקרית ספר וב בהמ”ד “תורת חיים משה” (מוצש”ק ויצא תשנ”ז) בשם רבו הגאון הרב יוסף שלום אלישיב זצ”ל. עיין בדעת רבותינו חלק א עמוד 8

    Many other Poskim felt the same

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1403544

    dancingmom
    Participant

    You’re right- case closed

    Anyone who could state that the wigs today are fine because the shiltei Giborim and the Rema allowed wigs that looked like natural hair (which was a big debate and too complicated to argue about on Yeshiva world properly) hundreds of years ago or even fifty years ago has blinders on- you obviously all know much better than our most recent gedolei hador who proclaimed most of todays wigs immodest and erva

    This debate is futile- the men here obviously want to justify their wives wigs – which look nothing like the wigs from fifty years ago and definitely not like the wigs from 200 years ago. This whole argument is ridiculous, but I’m not writing these responses for the men on this thread, i’m writing it for the women who might be reading this who are open to the emes. And I posted enough sourced info to show how this mitzvah is all about modesty.

    You could continue justifying all the wigs by stating how the Rema and the Shiltei Giborim gave a heter to todays sheitels but anyone with a thinking brain realizes that they are two totally different items. One was used to cover the hair as an obvious head covering and one is used to accentuate, attract and provoke.
    You’re all missing the big picture here which is so obvious that even a young child gets this (how many times has my little son said to me, Oh she’s covering her hair? Who would ever know that!) What a total deception and chillul Hashem.
    And anyone who thinks that a woman’s modesty isnt connected to what’s on her head doesn’t understand modesty at all.
    How ironic is it that on top of this whole thread is an ad for a wig company with the slogan “The best wigs go unnoticed”
    I think I’m dancing out of here….

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402746

    dancingmom
    Participant

    It continues: (from Adorned with Dignity)

    Opposition to the Sheitel
    At that time, when women from other countries began to wear sheitels, rabbanim opposed this practice and stated that it was a deviation from mesorah:
    The Maharatz Chiyus declared, “It was accepted throughout the generations that all women were careful not to wear a wig in public. Even in my youth, I never heard of a woman living in our country who wore a sheitel; it just became a new breakage of the boundaries of mesorah.”

    The Reform Movement
    When the influence of the reform movement seeped into Germany and the surrounding countries, many women unfortunately began to uncover their hair. Thus, rabbanim ruled that women may wear wigs (as opposed to revealing their own hair). Additionally, in the early 1900’s in America most Jewish women did not cover their hair. This may be the reason why Rabbanim in America allowed the wearing of wigs.

    The Era after the Holocaust
    In the aftermath of the Holocaust, the generation was shattered physically, emotionally, and spiritually. (The Satmar Rebbe zt”l said that any person who survived the war and remained frum was on the level of a tzaddik and could evoke yeshuos for others.) Thus, due to the weakness of the girls, many were not ready to cover their hair at all after they got married. For this reason, even great rabbanim who were against the wearing of wigs allowed them to wear sheitels in order to save them from exposing their actual hair in public.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402736

    dancingmom
    Participant

    From “Adorned with Dignity” by C.T. Friedman:

    “Harav Binyamin Rabinovitz attested to the reason for the outbreak of sheitels (see his approbation for the sefer Da’as Moshe v’Yisroel):
    The custom of wearing sheitels in public started approximately 150 years ago because of the decree of the Czar … Even after the decree was abolished, this custom remained and continued to be practiced in later generations until the cause for this custom has become completely forgotten.

    The decree of the Czar effected a transformation in the manner in which women in all generations observed the beloved mitzvah of covering the hair. Before the gezeirah, only a minority of nonreligious woman wore sheitels as a head-covering instead of the age-old traditional kerchief worn by all women. Yet, as a result of the decree, many women slowly began wearing only a sheitel as a head-covering (without covering it with a kerchief). Even after the decree was no longer active, women continued wearing wigs in public since they became accustomed to the look. Additionally, even those women who didn’t live under the Czar’s jurisdiction began to wear wigs instead of kerchiefs since they rationalized, “If so and so, who is an upright rebbetzin, or whose husband is rav, wears a sheitel, surely it is okay for me to wear one.”

    The Satmar Rebbe zt”l attested to this about one hundred years ago: “At this time, even the righteous women have taken the liberty of wearing sheitels. Indeed, Hagaon HaBa’al Machne Levi, the dayan of Frankfurt, spoke against this practice, even though in his times there was only a minority who wore sheitels…”

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402508

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Again, the wigs that were worn for hundreds of years looked nothing like todays wigs. I think I posted enough sourced info to show that Jewish women cover their hair for modesty (why is this even a debate??). Most of the wigs today are not modest, they look just like one’s own hair and usually nuch nicer which is defeating the purpose of the mitzvah.
    Jewish women are not covering their hair to look married, they are covering their hair to increase their modesty level- which is not happening with todays sheitels. The maaris ayin issue is not relevant
    My point is not to argue assur/ mutar (although there is much to debate about on that). My point is that many current Gedolei Hador who knew what the more recent wigs looked like stated that the wigs of today are not modest. One example of many:
    From מצות כיסוי שערות by Rabbi Pesach Elyiyahu Falk,
    “The present day Geolei HaPoskim have similarly stated that it is assur and wholly incorrect for a sheitel to be made to simulate the maiden appearance of a woman. In a proclomation from year 5750 a central paragraph reads as follows:
    פאה היא כיסוי לשיער ראשה של האשה, במה דברים אמורים שאכן ניתן להבחין בה שהיא פאה. אך אלו נראת כמראה שיער טבעי לחלוטין לא נוכל לכנותה בשם כיסוי שיער הראש. ובחבישת פאה זו היא מחשילה כל רואיה באיסורים חמורים
    “The sheitel is intended as a covering for the woman’s hair. It can be considered as such only when it can be recognized as a sheitel. if it looks like natural hair, it cannot be considered to screen off what is supposed to be hidden. By wearing such a sheitel the wearer ensnares those who see her in very serious issurim.”
    HaGaon HaRav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv, HaGaon HaRav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, HaGaon HaRav Shmuel Halevi Wosner and HaGaon HaRav Nissim Karelitz. (page 12)

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402316

    dancingmom
    Participant

    This is the translation of a letter written by a top talmud of Rav Elyashiv zt”l:
    (Opening paragraph praises those who have raised the topic of today’s wigs, which is described as pritzut and a gateway to sin).
    “Many times, we heard from Rav Elyashiv zt”l, how pained he was by this great breach, and how much he encouraged Jewish women to go with a mitpachat, which he considered “Glatt”, because even the old wigs, were a matter of controversy among the poskim, and from then on to today, the Yetzer Hara has not rested to produce different styles of wigs, the common denominator of which is to stimulate the Yetzer Hara and cause the men of Israel to sin, and it is a double obligation for us to cast aside this pritzut, and for sure anyone who is a Ben Torah– Heaven forbid that he should be lenient in this matter–
    and let this be the first stringency that he takes upon himself, especially as (today’s wigs) can create a Michshol for the Rabbim (a pitfall for the masses). And “Ashrei” (fortunate/blessed) is one who separates
    himself and who REFUSES to allow today’s wigs into his home. And in this merit, he will merit children who are Talmidei Chachamim and Tzaddikim…

    And on this I have come to sign
    (Rabbi) Moshe Mordechai Karp

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402309

    dancingmom
    Participant

    And for those that asked for the history of how sheitels became the accepted “custom” in frum circles:
    The custom of wearing wigs in “reshut harabim” (i.e. on the street) appeared about 150 years ago due to the decree of the Russian Tsar for Jews to change their attire:
    Aruch HaShulchan Ohr hAChaim 551:11: “in our time – because of the order of the authorities we have changed the dress code” – and Jewish women were forced to walk bare-headed – the idea was thought of and promoted to the Tsar by the renegade Jews (maskilim).
    Rav Shlomo Kluger (in the book Shnot Chaim 316): “There was a “gzera” in Russia (an order decreed by the authorities) to go bare-headed – and in our time many walk that way deliberately.” I.e.: first, there was a “gzera”; afterwards this “tradition” spread from city to city and from country to country, from Russia to Europe. Unfortunately, even the wives of Rabbis walked with uncovered head.
    Attempts to justify (already after the gzera was canceled) that this “tradition” is contrary to the Torah brought no results – see Aruch HaShulchan 75:7, Kaf HaChaim 75.
    Righteous Jewish women could not walk in a kerchief during the gzera, as expected by the Torah law, but did not want to walk bare-headed – so they had chosen the lesser of two evils – wearing a wig. But they intentionally made their wigs such that they did not attract attention, not like today’s wigs, which are more beautiful than one’s own hair.
    Is this the tradition that we should continue?

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402302

    dancingmom
    Participant

    I was not only talking about Sephardim – I was pointing out how fortunate for the Sephardic world that they have such clarity on this issue.
    My main focus on this whole thread has been the modesty issue, the wigs today are by no means modest.
    Most of them are nicer than ones own hair- defeating the entire purpose of the mitzvah.
    See: Chofetz Chaim in the preface and in the fourth chapter of the book Geder Olam where he writes: “It is obvious and clear to everyone that the meaning of the law of ‘kesui rosh’ – is ‘tzniut’ – modesty …. One of the reasons why women walk with their heads uncovered is – ‘yetzer-haRa’ which “encourages the woman to adorn herself and attract attention with her hair; and for that she will answer in the future.”
    From the words of Chofetz Chaim we see that (1) the gist of the commandment to cover the hair is – modesty, and (2) that it is obvious, and (3) that the hair of the married woman makes her more attractive and that is why they must be covered. Today’s wigs are more beautiful than one’s own hair and the fact that people “know” that it is a wig, does not in any way kill the ‘yetzer-haRa’ for another man’s wife – a human nature perseveres in men.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402295

    dancingmom
    Participant

    All this back and forth comes from a lack of understanding of the purpose of the mitzvah of kisui rosh

    From the newly released Sefer תורת הכיסוי:
    בטעם האיסור, ישנה הסכמה של כל מפרשי הש”ס והקדמונים שזהו מטעם הפריצות הנגרמת מכך, וכפי שכותב זאת בעל “תרומת הדשן” (סימן י) שודאי איסור גלוי הראש איננו אלא משום פריצות כלפי הגברים. ובספר “מעלות המידות” (פרק ט) ומבאר כך: שכן שערות האשה דבר פריצות וערוה ומרגילים את האדם לידי הרהור ותאוה. וכלשונות אלו ניתן למצוא במקומות לרוב, ורק נביא את לשונו של החיד”א בספרו על אבות דרבי נתן הכותב כך שמאמר שחוה גרמה ש’ה’ה יצר הרע, צריכה היא להיות עטופה, שלא יתגרה יצר הרע באדם הרואה אותה

    The entire mitzvah is about modesty- a wig which looks like natural hair is not modest precisely for that reason- the wig has the same attraction as the hair underneath it. Here is what Chessed leAvraham (Rav Avraham Azulai (years 1570- 1643), a Grandfather of the well-known Rav Chida) writes: “since the whole point of the prohibition is because of the “pritzut degavrey” – It attracts the attention of men, there is no difference between her hair and a wig – it is one and the same Torah prohibition, because it is the external attractive-appearance that Torah forbids; many more Poskim write the same.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1402266

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Rav Ovadiah proved in his teshuva that the Shiltei Givorim is talking about a chatzer as a private courtyard. Not a public place. If you bothered to read it, you would understand why.

    Everyone is going around in circles. Bh Rav Ovadia Yosef clarifed this topic for Sephardim- hair on top of hair halachically assur and immodest (and illogical). This is even more obvious today when the wigs are much nicer than ones own hair- so even if a heter was given for a wig many years ago it would not be applicable today

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401892

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Said GAON: “Before I respond let me clear, no one denies Chacham Harav Ovadia’s Gadlus, I happen to have gone through many of his works in יביא אומר and others including this one in Vol 5, I don’t know why it should be a factor…”
    Let’s be clear on something.
    Rav Ovadiah permitted Agunahs to remarry. Rav Ovadiah permitted the sale of Holy Land during Shmitta. Rav Ovadiah halachically permitted Oslo. Arguably, No Sage over the last several hundred years ever ruled as leniently (while based on thorough scholarship). With regard to wigs. Rav Ovadiah wrote: “I searched and I searched and I could find no basis to permit”
    So just let that sink in for a minute
    All that aside. You can debate all day long what the prohibition of head covering does or does not involve. My point is you can not simply take a teshuva written in 1968 under a very different set of circumstances and realities, and refuse to acknowledge the present situation, which is very far from the situation Rav Moshe ZTL encountered and responded to, back in that time. That is not how psak works. Things change. One needs to consider whether Rav Moshe would have really permitted today’s wigs which are nothing like the straw of 1968. And if we do not know, we can not quote.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401137

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Thank you Yeshiva world for your tolerance of my posts- this topic is usually not very well received no matter how long our short the message is- no one likes to hear they might be wearing something immodest

    I’m not insulting all women who wear wigs, i’m quoting words of Gedolim and pointing out how many of the current wigs were screamed out about by chashuv Gedolim as being pritzus.

    It’s a major problem in the klal that very few are addressing. We could all cry about all the tzaros in the world but it says clearly in Devarim that the shechina leaves us when we are not modest and tragedies than occur.

    Everyone is irritated with what I’m writing because many times the truth is hard to hear- especially if it means that one might have to make a fundamental change (especially in the area of appearances) to correct a wrong

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401115

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Words by Rabbi Epraim Wachsman from an asifa held in both Brooklyn and Lakewood for thousands of women in memory of the Kedoshim of Har Nof:

    “There are women who have decided that they want to be machmir to wear tichels as often as they can, whenever they have the opportunity, rather than wear the sheital. We have to be mechazek them! They’re not extreme, they’re not fanatics, they’re not the Taliban. People who use such terms, they use it just to validate themselves so they shouldn’t have to confront the emes. These nashim tzidkaniyos are pashut women who went through our chinuch. They went through our Bais Yaakovs, they were mekabel the mesora al pi derech hamesora from tzaddikim and gedolei Yisroel. They were taught to live with the truth and to respect the truth. And they looked at these sheitals and they said to themselves- this contradicts my values, this is not emes, this is hypocrisy, this is not yiras shamayim. And we should admire them and we should aspire to their level of yiras shamayim. “

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401112

    dancingmom
    Participant

    “That is exactly the issue – extremism is taking over!
    Do I need to be frumer than the wives of the Chazon Ish and The BRISKER Rav?!
    It is definitively 100% kosher leHalacha – what are you comparing? why are you insisting?!
    Perhaps we should go back to the Rambam that Girls should cover their hair? Where does it end? Do we need to go like the cult of Lev Tahor…in Burkas?”

    Thank you Gaon for proving my point.
    Anyone who calls a tichel extreme is showing complete ignorance about the mitzvah of kisui rosh and is going against the words of Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach and many more Gedolim ( who encouraged tichels and whose wives happened to wear tichels, you have selective postings) and insulting women who are trying to grow in tznius.
    It’s unbelievable that people could put the word tichel in the same sentence as burka.

    Does your wife wear a wig like the Chazon Ish’s wife or the Brisker Rav’s wife? If so, kol hakavod to her.
    But the reality is that most women arent wearing wigs like that today.
    No one is insisting that women wear tichels- but it should be respected and accepted as the ideal head covering- both halachically and hashkafically- and a viable option for frum women in frum circles

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401026

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Goan- you are completely underestimating frum women and still not getting my point.
    I’m not trying to debate if wigs are assur or mutar- I am pointing out how the shiltei Giborim’s teshuva can and was interpreted in different ways with MANY great poskim stating that wigs were not allowed outside. This is the basis of Rav Ovadia Yosef’s brilliant teshuva, how the shiltei Giborim never meant for wigs to be worn outside and Rov poskim (ashkenaz and sephard) did not allow the use of wigs – therefore it is forbidden. It aways amazes me how so many ignorant people will just dismiss the word of a halachic genius like Rav Ovadia Yosef who was able to be lenient in all areas- Yet he couldnt find a halachic heter for the wigs. He wasn’t looking to make it harder for women- he studied the topic very extensively and is way more knowedgeable than you or me. To dismiss his words as “only for Sephardim” is extremely disrespectful (my background is ashkenazic btw) I think posters here would benefit from learning his teshuva on the peah nachris for a deeper and clearer understanding of the topic.

    I know that there is a heter for wigs in the Ashkenazic world (and again that is and was a great debate) but the wigs than were VERY different from today. You cannot just state that based on their psak that because the wigs then were allowed, today all natural wigs are okay to wear- expecially as you are totally dismissing the words of current great Gedolei hador like Rav Elyashiv, Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Wosner and many others who said otherwise. They made it very clear that most of todays wigs are not modest (which defeats the entire purpose of the mitzvah).

    Most frum women today would not stop covering their hair if they were told the wigs today are pritzus. They would make their wigs wiggier or try tichels. it is a disservice to the Klal, especially the women, that kisui rosh is not taught properly and many women do not understand why they are covering their hair and what is a proper and modest head covering. Frum women are intrinsically good- if they were taught this mitzvah properly the streets wouldn’t look the way they do now.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401033

    dancingmom
    Participant

    That is correct- bh many women today IN AMERICA are striving to elevate their level of kisui rosh by wearing tichels. Unfortunately they sometimes encounter resistance and prejudice from ignorant people within the frum community in response to wearing a tichel. it’s a terrible thing and so ironic that in a country where women of other religions proudly wear their cloth head coverings Jewish women have to face discrimination for wearing tichels in their own frum communities

    This is slowly changing but there’s still a long way to go

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1400992

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Taken from the book, “Adorned with Dignity”
    There are many sources that state clearly that the women wore wigs in the Gemara’s times in order to beautify themselves for their husbands in their homes. In those times (before the warning the Zohar) woman wore their hair in the house. Those who had thin or white hair wore sheitels in order to look nicer for their husbands at home. When these women would go out in public, they completely covered the wig with a kerchief. (From here we see that the wig was worn as a substitute for hair, not as a substitute for a head covering.) רש”י ערכין ז, תוספות ריד והנמוקי יוסף בשבת סד, מהאגור בסימן תל”ו, דברי רבינו ירוחם והטוש”ע א”ח סימן שג’ סעיף יח’.

    The following is a proof that in the רשות הרבים the women who wore wigs completely covered them with a kerchief:
    There is a halacha that a woman may not wear a wig in the רשות הרבים (this is referring to the רשות הרבים in the Gemara’s times) for fear that she might take it off and show it off to her friends which would constitute carrying on Shabbos. If, as you said, that the women wore a wig in public as a head covering, it wouldn’t enter someone’s mind that a Torah observant woman would take off her wig in public and display her hair. From here it is clear that a woman would completely cover her wig with a kerchief and the Chachamim were afraid that she would take out her wig from under the kerchief and show it to her friends.
    It was so self-understood that a married woman would cover her hair in public, that even the secular women would cover their hair. See Rashi Sanhedrin 58:2 – שהיו רגילות את הנכריות שלא לצאת בראש פרוע – As is seen in history books.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1400990

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Rav Falk interestingly compares the wearing of a yarmulka made out of hair to the natural sheitels women are using today:
    “How would a woman feel if her son had a yarmulke made for himself that was like a miniature sheitel- gauze on the inside and short man- like hair covering it from on top? When he wears it, his head is of course covered. However, to anyone who sees him, he has nothing on his head!
    We can well imagine what his distraught mother would say to her son when trying to convince him that it is wrong of him to brush his religion under the carpet in such a manner. The answer he gives her, that when out on the street he is ashamed to show that he is a yid and therefore hides it, will of course meet with little sympathy from his mother. Yet, little does his mother realize that she is doing exactly the same as her perplexed son. She with many of her friends, are ashamed or hurt by the fact that yiddishkeit requires them to cover their hair and that they cannot look “as natural” as an unmarried girl. They therefore have a sheitel made which looks exactly as their own hair. With it, they successfully hide a major part of their yiddishkeit, much to the chagrin of all erlicher Yidden.” (Mitzvos Kisui Saaros, pages 14-15)

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1401002

    dancingmom
    Participant

    As stated in The Unique Princess by Rabbi Yirmiyohu and Tehilla Abramov, “The halachic opinions that permit the wearing of wigs were talking about wigs that were short, unnatural looking, and “wiggy”. Such wigs were in use a century ago, explains Maran HaGaon Rav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita. They were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place.” (page 103)
    Further on it says, “Rav Elyashiv also clearly stated that in his opinion it is preferable for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief rather than a wig. He constantly expressed his concern about the use of wigs that are not modest- a practice which, he says, has made inroads even into the families of pious men and roshei Yeshivah. ” (page 105)

    This book has the approbation of many Gedolim including Rav Elyashiv, Rav Zilberstein, Rav Karp, Rav Scheinberg, Rav Ezriel Auerbach, Rav Ovadia Yosef, Rav Weinbach, Rav Zev Leff, Rav Asher Zelig Weiss etc…

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1400577

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The mitzvah of covering the hair is to detract attention from the married woman. Since hair in itself is provocative for men. As the תרומת הדשן says clearly, that a woman must cover her hair “משום פריצות דגברא – since hair is provocative for men. (עין בסימן י) .
    And that’s why majority of the poskim were against the wigs since what is the point of covering hair with more hair?
    You can continue posting all the sources for the pea nachris- no one could argue with the fact that todays wigs look nothing like the wigs from 400 years ago or even 30 years ago
    the have become a completely different item that defeat the very purpose of the mitzvah

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399848

    dancingmom
    Participant

    And here’s the translation of part of a shiur Rav Ovadia Yosef gave about sheitels:

    Those ladies who wear wigs, they think it’s mutar. They say no one said it’s assur. But we do tell them it’s assur. That’s what the sages said. They made a cherem- the Vilna Goan, the Yaabetz, the Chasam Sofer, Maharatz Chajes and other Gedolim. They all said it’s assur. And they say, No, so how come this Rabbi is quiet about it? He sees his daughter going out like that and doesn’t say anything. Why doesn’t that Rabbi say anything? His wife wears one. They fool themselves. And because they fool themselves, their conscience doesn’t bother them. They do it lechatchila, they think it’s mutar. And if someone doesn’t do it, they actually make fun of them. If so, their sin is twice and three times as great.
    Where is the yirat shamayim? What about a person having to listen to the words of the sages that wrote this in their seforim? Am I just making it up? I brought this all down from the poskim. All of them. One after another, they all write that it’s assur. I didn’t just make it up- they all say it’s assur. Why should we transgress their word? For what? Just to look a little prettier? Is there any prettiness lacking in nice hats and fancy tichels? Silk, embroidered…? So what’s so hard- just wear one of those. It’s also better in terms of tzniut. This is the way of the Torah. A person must distance himself from pritzut. To make a gate around the Torah. Not that we should be looking at what looks like her hair. Why do they do this?
    There are even yeshiva bechorim- woe to them! They say right from the start – I only want her to wear a sheitel. They have eyes but cannot see! Their eyes have been shut so they cannot see! Poskim, they can’t see! Great Gedolim they don’t see! They learn Baba Kama, Baba Metzia, Baba Batra. And these things they don’t know- they don’t want to know! Even if you tell them they won’t believe you.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399830

    dancingmom
    Participant

    actually the words yetzer hora and sa’arah (hair) have the same gematria too

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399683

    dancingmom
    Participant

    It’s interesting to note how many of my friends who are Baal teshuvas have told me that the concept of today’s wigs never made any sense to them. Why bother covering your own hair with someone else’s nice hair? This is modest?? It’s actually one of the first questions asked at many kiruv events.

    These friends of mine who were involved in the entertainment business before they became frum saw how wigs were used as a beautifying agent- a deception to make women appear glamorous and provocative to men- and actresses/singers/models don’t only wear long wigs, short wigs can be stunning too and sometimes more flattering on the women wearing them. Women know this very well, which is why they are so attached to their sheitels which transform them from plain Jane to Marylyn Monroe lookalike. Just put on a sheitel and the compliments pour in on how gorgeous and young you look. Modest indeed.

    Long, short – if the wig looks natural it’s provocative- it will provoke men by beautifying the woman wearing it. There’s no tichel or snood in the world that will have the same effect on men as a nice natural looking wig.

    Todays wigs are all natural looking! They all look like hair, beautiful hair, and anyone with open eyes and a truth seeking heart understands that hair is one of the most attractive features of a woman!
    That’s exactly why a married woman is supposed to be covering her hair in front of men. So they doesn’t notice how beautiful she is- her main beauty is supposed to be reserved for her husband only- at home.

    Every other area of modesty is safe to talk about it- but the wigs- forget it! When someone starts to point out the hypocrisy of most of the sheitels frum women and men start screaming in defense of the wigs. Clearly there’s something quite big about this topic- could it be that the sheitels today are a vehicle of the yetzer hora? Knowing how powerful the mitzvah of kisui rosh is, he’s blinded the frum population to the total sheker of these wigs. He’s even made it that natural looking wigs are the accepted social norm in frum society- with many husbands sporting beards, Peyos and tzitzus and wives with perfect shiny bouncy highlighted curls (of all lengths and colors) – quite a strange juxtaposition.

    (Interestingly the word sheitel and the word Satan have the same gematria….)

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399612

    dancingmom
    Participant

    last part:

    . Opinions as to the intention of the Shiltei Giborim
    The words of the Shiltei Giborim cannot be taken at face value. There is actually a whole sefer called “Das Moshe v’Yisroel” which expounds upon this psak. (This sefer has many haskamos; including HaRav Moshe Arye Freund zt”l, Av Beis Din of the Eidah Hachareidus) The sefer delves into the Shiltei Giborim’s commentaries in both mesachtas Shabbos and Kesubos and concludes that he never intended to give a heter for a woman to wear a wig in public (an act which was never performed by any Torah observant woman up until his times). It is clear from their findings that the Shiltei Giborim was referring to the wearing of a wig in the חצר – the courtyard, where other men were usually not prevalent.
    HaGaon HaRav Shmuel HaLevi Wosner zt”l expounds upon the dispute about the intention of the Shiltei Giborim:
    “It is known that the Shiltei Giborim gave a heter. Yet, this was a minority against the majority that were machmir. And in places where they couldn’t enforce this, they relied on this leniency. Some are of the opinion that even those who were lenient did not intend to give an explicit heter. And even those poskim who were lenient only gave a heter with specific requirements. And not like those people who make leniencies for themselves and wear all types of sheitels without any basis (in halacha).
    CONCLUSION: OVER THE GENERATIONS THERE WERE MANY DIFFERENT VIEWS ON THIS PSAK WHICH OUR GEDOLIM WERE AWARE OF AND WHICH ARE EXPOUNDED UPON IN SEFER “DAS MOSHE V’YISROEL”. IT IS NOT WITHIN OUR SCOPE OF KNOWLEDGE AND INTELLIGENCE TO DEBATE ABOUT THE VARIOUS OPINIONS.
    IN ANY CASE, (AS STATED ABOVE) OUR GEDOLIM HAVE RULED THAT EVEN FOR THOSE WHO WANT TO RELY ON THIS PSAK, THE SHILTEI GIBORIM WOULD NEVER HAVE GIVEN A HETER TO THE SHEITELS OF TODAY.

    LET US FINALLY OPEN OUR EYES AND HEARTS TO THE TRUTH AND THE CRYSTAL CLEAR WORDS OF OUR GEDOLIM.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399611

    dancingmom
    Participant

    He continues:

    The words of the Shiltei Giborim have been studied, evaluated, and disputed upon throughout the generations. It is not within the scope of this forum to debate about this. Yet, I would like to share some of the research I discovered.
    1. Opposition to the psak of the Shiltei Giborim
    Many people are not aware that at the time of the psak of the Shiltei Giborim, most rabbanim at that time and many of the later Poskim were against it. I will quote some of these sources.
    Mahari Mintz Katzenelbogen who lived during the times of the Shiltei Giborim stated:
    “Our parents and grandparents in all the communities in Ashkenaz have stated their opinion that one should not wear on the head, even a nylon fabric whose weave resembles hair.”

    The Maharatz Chiyus declared, “It was accepted throughout the generations that all women were careful not to wear a wig in public. Even in my youth, I never heard of a woman living in our country who wore a sheitel. It is a new breach of the boundaries of mesorah.”

    Below is a list of some of the many rabbanim who were vehemently against the psak of the Shiltei Giborim:
    The Mahari Mintz, the Be’er Sheva, the Chida, the Yaavitz, the Chasam Sofer, the Divrei Chaim, the Sdei Chemed, Rabbi Avraham Palagi, Rabbi Yitzchak Abulafya, Harav Ovadia Yosef, most Chasidic poskim from before the Holocaust, and many other gedolim and rabbanim).

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399610

    dancingmom
    Participant

    He continued:

    Harav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv zt”l was distraught about the new style of natural-looking sheitels. Before his passing, he declared, “The dispute about if the sheitel is permissible applied to the wigs of previous generations (which were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place). But the natural-looking sheitels incite the yetzer hara just like hair… Who can permit wearing such a sheitel, which is ervah?”

    Harav Shalom Schwadron explained, “Women are unaware that the permissibility of wearing of a sheitel was a debated issue among the poskim. Indeed, there are over twenty-four gedolei haposkim who forbade it. And even for those who go according to the opinions of the poskim who permitted it, do they think that these rabbanim permitted a woman to wear a sheitel that doesn’t even look like a wig? For this, there is no heter in the world!”
    For this reason, gedolim have issued the following kol korei regarding natural-looking sheitels:
    “Since in our communities women have begun wearing sheitels that cause sin just like hair because they look like natural hair, we feel obligated to let people know the view of our holy Torah. This is assur. Even in the communities where they followed the heter of wearing a sheitel, it didn’t come into question to allow such types of wigs (which are worn today). Indeed, one misdeed leads to another…” (This was signed by rabbanim, among them rabbanim from Gur, Vizhnitz, Erloi, Biala, Lelov, and Spinka.)

    IMPORTANT: The above mentioned statements were issued a number of years ago when the wigs didn’t come close to the long, provocative, attracting, wigs of today which are causing immeasurable obstacles and severe aveiros on a daily basis, even among the most respected of our communities.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399609

    dancingmom
    Participant

    This was sent to today from a highly respected talmud chachum in response to this discussion:

    I saw the text you posted on the psak of the Shiltei Giborim allowing sheitels. I have done extensive research on this topic and I would like to share a few fundamental points:
    Firstly, let us honestly ask ourselves a profound question:
    “DO THE SHEITELS OF TODAY RESEMBLE IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM THE WIGS THAT THE SHILTEI GIBORIM WAS REFERRING TO?
    Even if one would like to rely on the psak of the Shiltei Giborim (which was disputed upon by many poskim – see later)- what type of sheitels were prevalent in his times? Do they come close to the natural looking, eye-catching, enticing sheitels of today.
    Many Gedolim in our times were deeply pained about this and stated their opinions in writing and in various public speeches:
    HaRav Yosef Shalom Elyashiv zt”l declared, “The wigs of today look just like hair and are certainly assur. On this (type of wig) – not even one posek has given a heter. The wigs of today are actual ervah, they look just like hair; and there is no difference!
    The posek hador, Harav Shmuel Halevi Wosner zt”l, stated, “The wigs that were worn approximately sixty years ago—even in the more modernized country, Vienna—were clearly recognizable from a distance. It was clear that it wasn’t the woman’s own hair since those wigs did not have the natural characteristics of hair. Yet the wigs of today look just like natural hair.” He then added, “They incite the yetzer hara even more than natural hair, and there would be no posek in previous generations who would be able to find any type of leniency to permit such a sheitel.”
    Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l declared, “Why are people rationalizing that the women in the previous generation wore wigs? Those wigs looked like straw! Today, they come to me and I don’t know the difference between a wig and hair!”

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399562

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Please don’t start telling me how the Poskim from hundreds of years ago would have allowed today’s wigs. You are taking everything out of context, quoting all these sources but missing the main point of the mitzvah. (Bh many frum women are starting to realize the emes)

    Hollywood actresses aren’t wearing these sheitels to look modest! They are wearing them to look glamorous. Bh they can now look as beautiful as all the frum women wearing wigs because the trend has caught on!

    Just two months ago Vogue magazine featured a famous actress on their cover proudly wearing a wig from a frum sheitel company- and this was a short wig. She definitely looked very modest with her natural wig on!

    Here’s just one article from many about one sheitel company:
    ABOUT xxxx WIGS
    (article in a non Jewish publcation)
    The prestigious xxxx Wigs New York Collection is an iconic brand in the world of hair. It is red carpet certified and has been featured on countless runways, TV shows and magazines. It is also the number one choice amongst many celebrity stylists and discerning clients alike. xxxx Wigs are on the forefront of hair trends, bringing in the latest looks, styles, and color combinations. WEAR IT, OWN IT, FLAUNT IT!
    xxxx is a dynamic lady who started making wigs at her kitchen table. Today, she is one of the most sought after wigmakers in the industry. Although, her primary customer base has been Orthodox Jewish women who are required to wear a sheitel (wig) when they get married, news of xxxx’s exceptional talent reached the fashion industry and her wigs have been featured in Essence, Elle, Vogue, and even the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. She has deftly navigated honoring her traditions while making wigs available to women of all cultures and faiths. Although the motivations may be different, during our conversation xxxx stated that at the end of the day all women want to look beautiful. So true!

    Surely this is how G-d intended frum women to cover their hair!

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1399212

    dancingmom
    Participant

    please post the words of rav ovadia yosef and the sheitel company article

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1398915

    dancingmom
    Participant

    regarding todays sheitels being our “mesora”: (from the book “Adorned with Dignity” by C. T. Friedman)

    “I Have to Follow My Mesorah”
    The yetzer hara will try to convince us that we cannot deviate from the tradition of our family, and we have to follow our mesorah. Let us honestly ask ourselves, “What type of sheitel did my grandmother or great-grandmother wear? Was it as long, flowing, and natural-looking? Surely not; it was short, stiff, and wiggy-looking.”
    (Moreover, we need only go back a few generations until most of us will discover that either our great-grandmother, great-great-grandmother, or a previous ancestor wore a kerchief as a head-covering instead of a sheitel. This head-covering dates all the way back to Sarah Imeinu. As mentioned earlier, this tradition was broken due to the horrors of the Holocaust and the modernization of some communities.)

    When a woman upgrades her level of covering the head, she brings nachas to Hashem and to her deceased ancestors in Shamayim. This will serve as as an aliyas neshamah for her grandparents and as a zechus for her and her family.

    On pg 80:

    “We support and bless those women who have returned to the age-old custom of covering their head with a kerchief instead of a wig in order to fulfill the opinion of all poskim…and especially in today’s times when many of the contemporary wigs are not in line with the guidelines of tznius.”(Letter signed by Harav Shmuel Halevi Wosner zt”l; Harav Lipkowitz; Harav R’ Hager, Rebbe of Viznitz; Harav Karelitz; Harav Shmuel Aurbach (in name of his father, Harav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach zt”l); Harav Gestetner, yb”l; Harav Elyashiv zt”l. )

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1398883

    dancingmom
    Participant

    One more point-
    Logically speaking if kisui rosh wasn’t about modesty than it wouldn’t be fine for women to see a married woman’s hair.
    Only men are not allowed to see a married women’s hair- of course it’s best for a woman to have her hair covered at all times even at home where no one is around but that’s not Halacha.
    According to Halacha women can have their hair exposed in front of other women. It’s obviously about modesty- men are not allowed to see a married woman’s full beauty. Her hair is a major source of attraction so it needs to be covered after marriage and reserved for her husband ONLY.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1398877

    dancingmom
    Participant

    As to why married women cover their hair:

    Rav Falk writes in his pamphlet Mitzvos Kisui Saaros that “The Torah requires a married women to conceal her hair from the eyes of the public in order to lessen attraction to herself.” (page 7)
    He continues: “An unmarried maiden may attract attention to herself (within the boundaries of tznius) so that she is sought after and eventually marries (Ta’anis 13a and Kesubos 52b). Similarly, a man may look at a girl and take an interest in her appearance, chein, mannerisms etc. if he is considering her for marriage for himself or someone else. A married woman may, however, neither attract attention to herself (Kesubos 73a Rashi v.s. Sahara. See also Rosh and Ritvo) nor may a man take an interest in the appearance of an eishes ish, as she is unavailable to everyone but her husband.
    For this reason the hair of a girl may be seen, whilst the hair of a married woman, which is naturally a major source of attraction to her, must be covered and hidden from the eye of the public. Accordingly, for a married woman to wear a head covering that easily passes as her own hair, defeats the very function of this mitzvah, since a man seeing her can think that he is seeing her own hair and be attracted by it, especially when he does not know who she is and whether she is married or not.
    A similar but different reason why just a married woman must cover her hair is based on the verse “stolen waters are sweet” (Mishlei 9:17). Due to this phenomenon there is a special yetzer hora towards a married woman since she is an eishes ish (see Sanhedrin 75a and Avoda Zarah 20a). The mitzvah of kisui sa’aros was given to lessen attraction to such a person and safeguard Kedushas Yisroel. See Oz Vehadar Levusha, page 265 that in numerous places in the Torah hair is highlighted as a major source of attraction. Accordingly, by commanding the married woman to withhold from the public how she looks in her true hair, there is far less danger of a person being drawn to her and Kedushas Yisroel is guaranteed.
    A natural looking sheitel is furthermore forbidden because of Maris hoayin (it appears that the person is sinning), as some observers will not be able to discern whether this woman has covered her hair or not.” (pages 7-9)

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1398864

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Rav Elyashiv z”l and Rav Vozner z”l were the most recent Gedolim in our times, they were “fortunate” to see the current sheitels. They knew all the earlier poskim you mentioned, and they even quote them in their writings. Their final psak was לאיסור גמור ומוחלט בלי שום פשרות.

    Now for us to go start debating on the previous sources after we have the final bottom line psak is not only senseless but rather reckless and dangerous. We don’t have the knowledge regarding this sugya as they had and they ruled לאיסור without compromise.

    This sugya is not simple at all and the average layman is unfamiliar with so many facts around the words of the שלטי הגיבורים – it’s not rational to take his words at face value. Here’s just one example of many to demonstrate this:

    The same מגן אברהם that you quoted that brings the שיטה of the שלטי גבורים HE himself harshly prohibited even unmarried girls (whose hair is not yet consider ערוה) to go out with long loose hair because it’s פריצות!

    Does it make any sense that our girls in school are taught at a young age to keep their hair shoulder length and in a pony tail for modesty (to follow the מגן אברהם) Yet when they become an אשת איש ALL boundaries disappear!

    It’s just amazing how the most educated people can quote and twist all these sources to support the current immodest looking wigs and completely miss the fact that the wigs in the times of these Poskim looked NOTHING like the wigs of today. It was a heter (which was a heated dispute) on an item that was completely different from today. Even if the wigs than were made out of human hair- they didn’t have the technology of today and they looked like helmets not like silky natural hair.

    This is not about assur/mutar regarding the sheitels- this is about a serious breach of tznius that is causing frum men to stumble and causing a tremendous chillul Hashem.

    But please go on posting all the sources that supported today’s immodest wigs (even though they never saw them)

    Heaven forbid frum women should have to (gasp!) give up their expensive custom “hair” that most likely comes from Indian temples- and Chas vashalom have to consider covering their hair with a scarf or hat (which Rav Elyashiv and many other Gedolim called “glatt” as the tichel was never a dispute among Poskim) Imagine – married women will actually look like they have head coverings on. What a concept.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1397259

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Hair is provocative – period.
    The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
    אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי (תרומת הדשן)
    The prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered. The mitzvah of kisui rosh is not a chok.
    Single women are trying to attract a mate so they don’t need to cover their hair. It doesn’t mean that they could wear unrefined hair styles.
    A married women has to have an extra level of tznius upon marriage- it’s a grave sin for a man to look at a married woman. Hence she is commanded to cover her hair which is a major source of attraction.
    Her hair becomes erva after marriage- it has the potential to cause a man to be attracted to her.
    Wearing a sheitel that looks like ones hair or is nicer than ones own hair is defeating the entire purpose of the mitzvah. Secular Jews and non Jews get the hypocrisy of today’s wigs right away. It’s only the frum Jews who endlessly defend the wigs.
    We are so machmir on all aspects of judiasm- except with the sheitels. It’s really a total avoda Zora. Women should wear their sheitels at home for their husbands where they should be worn and they should wear tichels outside so they actually look like modest religious married Jewish women.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1397249

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The wigs worn in the times of the Shiltei Giborim, the Rema and all the other poskim quoted looked NOTHING liked the wigs of today. They allowed an item that is completely different from today’s wigs. Wigs than looked liked head coverings- they didn’t have the technology of today. .
    The heter was a huge debate among poskim- and many great Gedolim did assur the wigs.
    But that’s not the point. The point is that today’s wigs are completely hypocritical and immodest. There’s a reason why the wig and extension business is a multi billion dollar industry- the wigs are so beautifying, usually much more so than ones own hair. Wigs in the times of the Gemara were not beautifying like today’s sheitels – which are very provocative. You could quote as many sources as you want justifying these wigs- the truth is plain to see in the streets. Many frum women look unmarried and extremely attracting with natural looking and pretty wigs. It’s a total mockery of the mitzvah

    Bh there are currently a lot women that are recognizing this hypocrisy and are starting to wear tichels which are the ideal head covering – both halachically and hashkafically.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396574

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Here are the words of more Gedolim:

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Shalom Shwadron Zatzal:
    And why do they wear a sheitel, not because they want to cover their hair, but because it’s nicer that way. And my grandfather MaHarsham said it is assur to read krias Shema or any word of kedusha in front of a sheitel, and said that a women like this violates a tremendous issur and is doing something against the will of Hashem and those who fear him.”

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Yitzchak Isaac Rosenbaum-the Admor form Nadvorna Zatzal
    the peah nochris is for vanity and pritzus, to incite the yetzer horah, so men will look at her The Chasam Sofer:
    Be careful from the bad of bad women… even with a peah nochris I forbid you with an issur gamur.”
    (בצוואתו לבני ביתו)

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Yosef Chaim Zonenfeld Zatazal and HaRavH”G Rav Yisroel Salanter Zatal:
    Put anyone who’s wife had the chutzpah to wear a sheitel in cherem.
    HaRav HaGaon Rav Yehuda Tzadka Zatzal:
    A Women who walks with a peah nochris is gaava and and sin with forbidden thoughts rachmana litzlan. Many have been punished for this rachmana litzlan.

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal:
    One must assur a women to leave her house with a sheitel adamantly . He
    Quotes many tens of poskim besides for these who absolutely assured sheitels and says that it’s a mitzvah to publicize the issur, and those that listen will reap tremendous blessing from Hashem. (In all of his awesome Teshuvot)

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396535

    dancingmom
    Participant

    As I quoted earlier Rav Elyashiv said that he only permitted short stiff and wiggy wigs as did many other major poskim such as Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Wosner and many others.
    A natural attractive wig defeats the entire purpose of the mitzvah.
    The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
    אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי (תרומת הדשן)
    The prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered. All the Rishonim and Achronim have said that this is the reason that a woman must cover her hair in public. (For many sources on this Divrei Shalom is a great resource.)
    Most of today’s wigs beautify women tremendously, usually much more than their own hair! It’s become a mockery of the mitzvah

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396532

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The sheitels today are creating a tremendous chillul Hashem – non Jews comment on them all the time confused about how these wigs can be worn for modesty.
    As one professor wrote in a new book that is all about the hair industry:
    “The logic of the sheitel is elusive to most people outside the Irthodox milieu and poses complex questions even to people within it. What is the logic of covering hair with hair? Don’t naturalistic wigs that can’t be recognized as wigs defeat the very purpose of covering? How can it be permissible for a woman to use her own hair in her sheitel when the only reason she is wearing it is to hide her hair? And if a wig is more attractive than the hair it covers doesn’t it attract rather than deflect male attention? By investing so much time and money on wigs, aren’t women prioritizing material over spiritual matters? Are today’s sheitels actually more about fashion than modesty? Can the two be compatible?”
    These are common questions that many have. unfortunately people in the frum world will find every excuse possible to justify their wigs (our society is obsessed with sheitels even to the point where they all have names and are constantly discussed everywhere one goes)- it’s become an avoda Zora in every way possible.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396526

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The wig and extension industry is currently a billion dollar industry – it’s not just Orthodox Jews who are wearing wigs. Women from all over have caught on that they can beautify themselves tremendously with hair extensions and wigs. Actresses and models wear them all the time- it’s actually quite ironic that they are wearing these wigs for glamour and we frum women are wearing the same wigs for “modesty”.

    The only place in the world that has enough hair to supply the demand for human hair is India. Rav Elyashiv ruled that Indian temple hair is completely forbidden- even one Indian temple hair renders a wig assur. Since most of the hair In wigs is processed today (raw hair is actually not appealing to today’s market, hair is always processed to make it appear silky and shiny) there’s no way to test the wigs to determine where the hair comes from. So there’s definitely a serious problem here.
    Sheitels are an item of pritzus and idolatry- what Rabbi is going to want to deal with that?? What will women do if they can’t wear their beautiful 3,000 natural looking sheitels anymore where they can look like they are not covering their hair and resemble the stars in Hollywood? Imagine- women might have to wear (gasp) synthetic wigs or tichels like our ancestors did and we might actually look Jewish and like we’re covering our hair

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396525

    dancingmom
    Participant

    When one delves into the history of sheitels, it is quite fascinating. Most women mistakenly believe that wigs were worn as head coverings by Jewish women for hundreds of years and that it is part of our mesora. The wigs that were originally mentioned in the Gemara, peah nachris (strange wigs) were never used as head coverings. Women who were balding or had thinning hair wore wigs in the house to make themselves more attractive for their husbands. Women always put on a scarf that covered all of the wig when they went out in public.

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396399

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The hair that comes from combings is low quality and tangles- its not used for the high quality beautiful sheitels sold in the frum stores. Indian temple hair is abundant and high quality
    as it says in the report quoting Vince Selva, owner of the Indo Asian Human Hair Int. Inc. in Inglewood, Calif., and Link Removed and in the hair industry for nearly two decades :
    “Raw and processed hair is a billion-dollar industry saturated with scams and corruption. People ask me – Where does the majority of hair for wigs and extensions come from today? The only place in the world that has organized commercial quantities of hair is from India where 617 million women ritually donate to the Hindu temple. Hindu pilgrims have donated their hair in ritual purification for centuries. It’s a symbol of religious devotion and surrender of the ego. All of this hair has become an extraordinary economic resource for the temple and the custodians. There is no shortage of free hair from the pilgrims for the temples to auction off to exporters. It’s simple economics, supply and demand. Indian temples have a huge free supply of “sacrificed” hair, and the world has a huge demand. For wholesalers, it makes the most sense to buy where the supply is high and the price is reasonable.
    It would be impossible for enough hair to be cut in European countries to provide for the world. There are some temples around the world that shave hair like the huge ones in India. Some of these countries are Indonesia, Bangladesh, etc. However, the volume from these countries is miniscule in comparison to India. There are women in Europe that cut their hair to sell for a price, but again this is a very small minority and it would never provide enough hair for all the wigs being sold on the market today.
    It is my professional opinion that the majority of the hair sold worldwide is originally sourced from Indian Temple hair. The Temples have become an extremely efficient source of hair. Tirupati is the richest Indian temple. Here, tens of thousands of people donate their hair. There are huge rooms where hundreds of pilgrims are shaved at the same time in a sort of assembly line. They want to make a sacrifice to God and wouldn’t take any money for it.
    Indian hair is considered the best stand in for European hair in the market for its quality and length. Indian women take exceedingly good care of their hair and don’t use any chemicals, bleaches, or dyes. They wash and comb it frequently, curl the ends with their fingers, and use coconut oil on their hair for nourishment. They generally keep their hair long. There were instances when I have received and sold 42” hair. The long hair and extra curly hair is now becoming more expensive as the demand for it rises. I often sell it at a premium equivalent to European hair.”

    in reply to: Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur #1396405

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Regarding the immodesty aspect of todays natural wigs: In Teshuvos V’hanhagos on Sheitels Rabbi Shterbuch gives guidelines for chossonim – that they should educate their kallahs about the proper head-covering. He says that a kallah who chooses to wear the natural nice shaitels, IT’S BETTER THAT SHE DOES NOT COVER ALTOGETHER!

    As stated in The Unique Princess by Rabbi Yirmiyohu and Tehilla Abramov, “The halachic opinions that permit the wearing of wigs were talking about wigs that were short, unnatural looking, and “wiggy”. Such wigs were in use a century ago, explains Maran HaGaon Rav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita. They were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place.” (page 103)
    Further on it says, “Rav Elyashiv also clearly stated that in his opinion it is preferable for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief rather than a wig. He constantly expressed his concern about the use of wigs that are not modest- a practice which, he says, has made inroads even into the families of pious men and roshei Yeshivah. Maran Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l, expressed the same concern. As he once put it to Rav Dan Segal, shlita: “They cover their hair, and then make every effort to make it look uncovered. Therefore, in my opinion this is a loathsome thing. But who can we talk to?” He also said that, when Mashiach comes, the first thing he’ll do is abolish the use of wigs (as quoted by his son-in-law, shlita). Many halachic authorities and Torah scholars in our time agree with this approach.” (page 105)
    In a letter written by Rav Moshe Mordechai Karp it says, “Many times, we heard from Rav Elyashiv zt”l, how pained he was by this great breach (immodest wigs), and how much he encouraged Jewish women to go with a mitpachat, which he considered “Glatt”, because even the old wigs, were a matter of controversy among the poskim…”

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