Natural-Hair Sheitels Are Assur

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  • #1395040

    Joseph
    Participant

    Five major poskim recently issued a psak forbidding any natural-hair sheitlach:

    Rav Chaim Meir Halevi Vosner, Rabbi and Head of the Rabbinical Court, Zichron Meir

    Rav Sariel Rosenberg, Rabbi and Chief Rabbinical Justice, Bnei Brak

    Rav Yehuda Sillman, Rabbi and Head of the Rabbinical Court, Bnei Brak

    Rav Shimon Baadani, member of the Moetzet Chachmei HaTorah

    Rav Moshe Mordechai Karp, Dayan and Posek, Southern Hill, Modiin

    #1395095

    iacisrmma
    Participant

    OK, but if your poseik says differently?

    #1395099

    Joseph
    Participant

    Kol Korei

    #1395122

    Takes2-2tango
    Participant

    Most rabbanim in america do not hold this as a psak. Until such tome happens ,enjoy your sheitlach. *Hair today gone tomorrow*

    #1395146

    Meno
    Participant

    Most rabbanim in america do not hold this as a psak.

    Most rabbanim in America don’t hold of most things that Joseph posts.

    #1395150

    Joseph
    Participant

    Give actual names and actual quotes of poskim that disagree and then we can talk. All we have now is five Gedolei Poskim against and none on the record for.

    I’m sure in the following posts we are sure to be about to see all kinds of speculation like “As far as I know, Rav Dovid never said it is assur so that for sure means he holds it is both muttar and l’chatchila to wear human hair sheitels!!!” and the like, in all kinds of fanciful wordings in the next plethora number of comments. But until, and unless anyone can and does name a specific name and quote a verifiable statement or letter from a Posek, there’s nothing left to talk about.

    If someone does actually provide a known Posek who is on the record supporting human hair sheitelech, then we can analyze: who is the posek – corner shteeble rov versus the gedolim or a bona fide gedolei posek? how many poskim support that position? does he support it l’chatchila or only b’dieved?

    #1395178

    lesschumras
    Participant

    Joseph,
    Since when do Americans hold by chareidi possum?

    #1395186

    shuali
    Participant

    The headline is very misleading. Pe’as Nochri (i.e. wogs made from human hair) are permitted as is clear from the Shulchan Aruch. While there are dei’os which assur the minhag among B’nei Ashkenaz was to wear. The issue above relates to the issue raised a number of years ago regarding Indian hair. But that’s okay. It got me to look, read, and add this comment.

    #1395177

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    We learn from the admonition of “aseh l’cha rav” to rely upon our local rav/posek to NOT “cherry pick” a psak from among multiple rabbonim that best fits our own inclinations but to identify our “own” rav and follow his guidance, even when inconvenient. Joseph tells us to ignore the guidance of what he disparagingly refers to as our local “corner shteeble rov” and instead follow a bona fide gedolei posek? Well, given that we don’t have a website listing Joseph’s approved “gedolim” (and even if he did, I probably wouldn’t get honorable mention), many of us will continue to follow our LRPs (who we assume are aware of what some “gadolim” may have said in some kol koreh) in matters of Halacha arising in our daily lives.

    #1395195

    Joseph
    Participant

    shuali, indeed the basic idea of human hair wigs is not itself problematic for Ashkenazim, as you correctly note. But if you read what the gedolei poskim wrote, you’ll see that the issue is the fact that the source for most of the hair comes from avoda zora worshipping. And for the minority of human hair used that isn’t sourced from avoda zora practices, the hair industry makes it impossible to determine with certainty which hair originates from non-A”Z.

    #1395203

    yehudayona
    Participant

    When the issue of Indian hair came up several years ago, didn’t Rabbi Belsky pasken that it wasn’t a problem?

    #1395230

    Joseph
    Participant

    I looked into it and it’s true that Rav Belsky zt’l did disagree with Rav Elyashiv zt’l, Rav Vozner zt’l, Rav Karelitz shlita and many other gedolei poskim (including in the United States). So there is a shitta by a gedolei posek that it’s permissable, albeit Rav Belsky from what I understand held it a b’dieved not a l’chatchila since the risk of avoda zora hair wasn’t completely avoidable even if he held it was more likely non-A”Z. But nevertheless even on that he seems to be a daas yochid among the top tier of gedolei poskim.

    #1395240

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “I’m sure in the following posts we are sure to be about to see all kinds of speculation ”
    Lol joseph you are the master of speculation. you whole religion is a giant speculation of everything is assur as long as I dont want to do it.

    See for example here ” it could well be they weren’t aware of the origins or history of All Hollows Day ….Have you considered the fact that Reb Moshe didn’t hand out candies on Halloween? And that Rav Aharon didn’t either? Nor did the Satmar Rebbe, Rav Gifter, Rav Hutner, Rav Ruderman, Rav Schorr, Rav Birnbaum or Rav Svei. And today candies aren’t distributed on Halloween from the homes of the Novominsker Rebbe, Rav Dovid Feinstein, Rav Shmuel or Rav Aharon Schechter.”

    Pure speculation and regarding R’ Dovid, at least you speculated incorrectly.

    #1395709

    gavriel613
    Participant

    @joseph “Give actual names and actual quotes of poskim that disagree and then we can talk. All we have now is five Gedolei Poskim against and none on the record for.”

    This argument is not very strong. Every one of the Gedolei haPoskim who hasn’t said it is ossur obviously holds it isn’t ossur, or he would have a chiyuv macho’oh and would have been mitztaref to the kol koreh above. You could perhaps argue that they hold it isn’t lechatchilo, and their wives don’t use hair sheitals (I don’t know). However many respected choshuve Rabbonim’s wives wear hair sheitals – they may not be the Gedoley haPoskim but one would expect them to at least know and keep what the Gedoley haPoskim say.

    #1395715

    Joseph
    Participant

    Gavriel: The one’s who haven’t issued a psak one way or the other hold that, at best, it is a very weak heter or, at worst, not even that but they feel their communities will ignore and disregard them if they announce it is assur. And their hamon am will simply continue using them despite being advised it is assur; thus they feel it is counterproductive to officially pasken an issur.

    And they have a valid basis in Halacha to not so pasken when they know they’ll be ignored.

    #1395720

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And they have a valid basis in Halacha to not so pasken when they know they’ll be ignored.

    No, they wouldn’t.

    #1395723

    gavriel613
    Participant

    according to the osrim its an issur deoraysa, so they have to make a macho’oh even if they think they’ll be ignored – mutav yehu shogegim is only by derabonons AFAIK

    #1395766

    Joseph
    Participant

    Perhaps the one’s not speaking out hold it is an issur d’rabbonon. Not avoda zora. There is another prohibition, called “vhayisem nekiim” where we derive an obligation not to do anything that would make us look guilty in the eyes of others, even if we are really innocent. They hold that the shaitel is not acceptable because it defeats the purpose of the prohibition, being that it looks like hair anyway. That a shaitel, especially a human hair shaitel, defeats the purpose of the Halachah to cover the hair altogether. You are just covering Ervah with something that looks exactly like Ervah, so what’s the point?

    #1395815

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    That’s a totally separate issue.

    The “one’s not speaking out” (sic) are obviously the vast majority, so we can put to rest your claim about a”z.

    The point of covering hair with a shaitel, BTW, is to keep the halachah.

    Single girls don’t cover their hair, even though it doesn’t look different than a married woman’s hair. Do you have a problem with that too?

    #1395824

    JJ2020
    Participant

    Joseph are you married? If so have you tried to convince your wife to stop wearing her sheitle? Have you spoken to American rabbanim about this or are you speculating about their views?

    #1395832

    Joseph
    Participant

    Single girls hair isn’t erva. People know she’s single.

    #1395890

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Make up your mind, do you want to talk about what is ervah, or what looks like ervah? Just don’t mix and match.

    As far as knowing she’s single, some people do and some don’t. Same with married women. It shouldn’t make a difference according to your standard of “looking like ervah”, because it looks the same either way.

    As far as a human hair shaitel looking like real hair, someone complained to the Steipler about that, and he replied “How do you know, you shouldn’t be looking”. Anyhow, the women claim they can tell what’s real and what’s not.

    In this week’s Mishpacha, Rabbi Grylak related that someone complained to the Chazon Ish that a certain avreich’s wife didn’t cover her hair. The Chazon Ish wasn’t in the habit of giving direct mussar, so the next time he saw this avreich’s, he mentioned in passing that there is a store in Tel Aviv which sells real looking shaitel. The avreich responded that that’s where his wife got hers…

    #1395914

    gavriel613
    Participant

    So you agree that the vast majority hold it isn’t AZ. However you wish to hypothesize that there may be an entirely new reason why its ossur miderabbonon. Your only reason for saying this is because it isn’t proven wrong from the many Rabbonim who haven’t spoken out against it. However there is no actual reason to believe this. Even in the kol korei which assurs doesn’t say this reason, and once they were anyway being mocheh they would have no reason not to mention the issur derabbonon as well to strengthen their argument as people would then be more likely to accept their position.

    #1395917

    Joseph
    Participant

    You can’t “put to rest” the gedolei poskim’s ,”claim about a”z”, since it is a serious and valid “claim”, even if others disagree.

    You raised the issue of single girls, and it was only to your point I responded about single girls. People know that Mrs. A is an eishes ish. So if she’s seen with what appears to be uncovered hair, then the prohibition of “vhayisem nekiim” kicks in. If Miss B is walking outside, no one has reason to think she’s married because no one knows she’s married (since she isn’t), unlike a married woman’s acquaintances who do know she’s married.

    The a”z issue and the vhayisem nekiim prohibition are obviously two completely separate issues.

    #1396043

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    You can put to rest your claim that the five who signed aren’t opposed by the vast majority. If you want to be machmir like those and wear a synthetic toupée, gezunter heit.

    As far as Vihyisem N’kiyim, there’s still a vast majority who don’t have a problem, as evidenced by the fact that their wives wear natural shaitels. Your tayna of “You are just covering Ervah with something that looks exactly like Ervah” is silly because issur isn’t showing something which looks like ervah, the issur is showing ervah.

    #1396285

    dancingmom
    Participant

    There are two separate issues here
    The pritzus aspect of the sheitels which many Gedolim have screamed about in the past (including the Chozen Ish)
    Most of the sheitels today are completely hypocritical and make a mockery of the mitzvah.
    Than there is the avoda Zora aspect of the wigs which are currently being looked in to by American Rabbanim. Rav Elyashiv said that all Indian temple hair is completely assur based on the findings by Rav Dunner from England. The topic is being revisited because of new info regarding the hechsher that was given on some sheitel brands- there is strong evidence that it’s impossible to have a hechsher on the haurcij the sheitels as Indian temple hair is currently flooding the hair industry and there is zero regulation. Wig labels are useless as many take Indian hair and relabel it as “European” or “South American”
    The corruption in the industry is widespread unfortunately even in the frum hair market too

    #1396283

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If an unatrractive married women with unattractive hair goes out and buys a really machmir-type fake hair sheitel that satisfies even Joe’s farblungete psak (or that of the Shtieblach Rebbe he seems to rely upon for his psaks) and suddently this plain looking baas yisrel looks like a princess,, is that really what anyone believes chazal had in mind with their concerns over the inyan of ervah in a married woman? Just when I think he is making some semblance of sense, he takes another twist and turn in tto the rabbit hole

    #1396204

    Joseph
    Participant

    Go through the written sh”ut. There’s no question the very clear majority prohibit these sheitels.

    #1396142

    TheGoq
    Participant

    “Single girls hair isn’t erva. People know she’s single”
    If you can tell who is single on sight than how can you say?
    “You are just covering Ervah with something that looks exactly like Ervah”

    #1396139

    Joseph
    Participant

    You’re incorrect in asserting that a majority of (gedolei) poskim’s wives wear human hair sheitelech.

    What you are calling “silly” is the precise point of vhayisem nekiim.

    #1396345

    natethegreat
    Participant

    I listened to Rabbi Belsky zt”l’s shiur as well as read his opinion on the topic in the safer Shulachan Halavi. First of all, he is not in disagreement with Reb Elsyashv ztl. The question boils down to the mitzus – is the hair sold to the frum population, “temple hair,” – hair taken from woman who shave their hair in temples which might potentially have problems of avoda zara, or, “brush hair,” – hair collected from local villages by woman who earn an income by growing their hair and selling the strands that come off when they brush their hair.

    When the whole controversy erupted, a delegation of 20 rabbinic went down and investigated 11 of the “brush hair” factories. Their determination was that temple hair represented a tiny minority of the hair available on the market and was not sold to our wig industry. Temple hair is sold for around $50,000 and primarily used in the Hollywood film industry. According to Rabbi Belsky the information was clear and inarguable, however people intent on scaring the tzibbur kept trying to find new reasons why the data was wrong. They claimed that the rabbanim who went down to India were duped. According to these (conspiracy) theorists the factories they visited, filled with hundreds of workers sorting bales of hair were all actors in an elaborate hoax designed to fool the rabbi’s about the true origin of the hair. After looking through the data, Rabbi Belsky was confident that such thinking was simple foolishness. The poskim in eretz yisoral were simply discussing the halachic status of hair obtained from a temple, not the actual origin of the hair. I have not listened to this shuir in a while, but this is what I remember…

    #1396358

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Rav Elyashiv ztz’l” spoke very harshly against today’s sheitels.
    These are the words of the Rav translated into English:
    “Even though there’s a dispute among the Poskim whether it’s mutar or ossur to wear a sheitel, if they walk as if their hair is revealed, the way those that are not covering their hair walk, they are violating an issur gamur, it’s mamish, it’s emes like ervah. (the term used in gemara to describe parts of the body that must be covered according to halacha)
    The issur is as follows: If they walk with a sheitel like the times 100 years ago, then of course this is allowed, even a drop nicer. But, it should not be the way they walk today. All those that walk today, it looks like hair for sure and this is definitely assur, this nobody was mattir.…A woman with the hair of today the way she walks, it’s mamish ervah, it looks like hair, there is no difference, regarding this there is no heter….”

    HaRav Chaim Kanievsky shlita stated “If the sheitel looks like hair, it is the obvious truth that it is definitely forbidden. There is no room for dispute in the matter.” He repeated this several times in his conversation with Harav Avraham Lipshitz shlita. (Adorned with Dignity, page 102)

    #1396360

    GAON
    Participant

    Dancing/ Joseph,
    This very issue and proclamation is going on a long time. There is definitely something amiss here, as per the ones involved in getting the issur, Rav Landau of Bnei Brak was aware of it for Years. So how come NO ONE of the gedolei haPoskim came out against. Where is Rav Nissim Karelitz? Where is Rav Chaim Kenievsky? Rav Yosef? Rav Silverstein, etc no one other than these on the Kol Korei have spoken out against it. The קול קורא dates in Tammuz! If it’s really that serious, we should have seen major signatures by now. It’s either that most disagree with the current facts, or they disagree with Rav DDunners facts, in regards to the very procedure of how it is rendered as תקרובת ע”ז in the first place.

    #1396405

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Regarding the immodesty aspect of todays natural wigs: In Teshuvos V’hanhagos on Sheitels Rabbi Shterbuch gives guidelines for chossonim – that they should educate their kallahs about the proper head-covering. He says that a kallah who chooses to wear the natural nice shaitels, IT’S BETTER THAT SHE DOES NOT COVER ALTOGETHER!

    As stated in The Unique Princess by Rabbi Yirmiyohu and Tehilla Abramov, “The halachic opinions that permit the wearing of wigs were talking about wigs that were short, unnatural looking, and “wiggy”. Such wigs were in use a century ago, explains Maran HaGaon Rav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita. They were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place.” (page 103)
    Further on it says, “Rav Elyashiv also clearly stated that in his opinion it is preferable for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief rather than a wig. He constantly expressed his concern about the use of wigs that are not modest- a practice which, he says, has made inroads even into the families of pious men and roshei Yeshivah. Maran Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l, expressed the same concern. As he once put it to Rav Dan Segal, shlita: “They cover their hair, and then make every effort to make it look uncovered. Therefore, in my opinion this is a loathsome thing. But who can we talk to?” He also said that, when Mashiach comes, the first thing he’ll do is abolish the use of wigs (as quoted by his son-in-law, shlita). Many halachic authorities and Torah scholars in our time agree with this approach.” (page 105)
    In a letter written by Rav Moshe Mordechai Karp it says, “Many times, we heard from Rav Elyashiv zt”l, how pained he was by this great breach (immodest wigs), and how much he encouraged Jewish women to go with a mitpachat, which he considered “Glatt”, because even the old wigs, were a matter of controversy among the poskim…”

    #1396399

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The hair that comes from combings is low quality and tangles- its not used for the high quality beautiful sheitels sold in the frum stores. Indian temple hair is abundant and high quality
    as it says in the report quoting Vince Selva, owner of the Indo Asian Human Hair Int. Inc. in Inglewood, Calif., and Link Removed and in the hair industry for nearly two decades :
    “Raw and processed hair is a billion-dollar industry saturated with scams and corruption. People ask me – Where does the majority of hair for wigs and extensions come from today? The only place in the world that has organized commercial quantities of hair is from India where 617 million women ritually donate to the Hindu temple. Hindu pilgrims have donated their hair in ritual purification for centuries. It’s a symbol of religious devotion and surrender of the ego. All of this hair has become an extraordinary economic resource for the temple and the custodians. There is no shortage of free hair from the pilgrims for the temples to auction off to exporters. It’s simple economics, supply and demand. Indian temples have a huge free supply of “sacrificed” hair, and the world has a huge demand. For wholesalers, it makes the most sense to buy where the supply is high and the price is reasonable.
    It would be impossible for enough hair to be cut in European countries to provide for the world. There are some temples around the world that shave hair like the huge ones in India. Some of these countries are Indonesia, Bangladesh, etc. However, the volume from these countries is miniscule in comparison to India. There are women in Europe that cut their hair to sell for a price, but again this is a very small minority and it would never provide enough hair for all the wigs being sold on the market today.
    It is my professional opinion that the majority of the hair sold worldwide is originally sourced from Indian Temple hair. The Temples have become an extremely efficient source of hair. Tirupati is the richest Indian temple. Here, tens of thousands of people donate their hair. There are huge rooms where hundreds of pilgrims are shaved at the same time in a sort of assembly line. They want to make a sacrifice to God and wouldn’t take any money for it.
    Indian hair is considered the best stand in for European hair in the market for its quality and length. Indian women take exceedingly good care of their hair and don’t use any chemicals, bleaches, or dyes. They wash and comb it frequently, curl the ends with their fingers, and use coconut oil on their hair for nourishment. They generally keep their hair long. There were instances when I have received and sold 42” hair. The long hair and extra curly hair is now becoming more expensive as the demand for it rises. I often sell it at a premium equivalent to European hair.”

    #1396491

    GAON
    Participant

    Dancing,
    According to the ones who permit פאה נכרית, they are specifically very clear that it indeed does look like your own natural hair and is permitted.
    In my opinion, differentiating is pure ignorance. The very ones poskim that all klal Yisrael are following are the שלטי גבורים, מגן אברהם, רמ”א, א”ר לבוש, and others , the specific original shayle posed was, if a women is permitted to wear her friends hair” and they ruled YES. The ones that prohibited (באר שבע) did not permit ANY wig at all.
    You can claim that any hair or wig needs to be modest, but to saying that it needs to look like unnatural etc. That goes against the very foundation of it’s original ruling.
    In other words, you either cannot wear any wig at all or wear any modest wig.

    #1396500

    marbehshalom
    Participant

    1. rabbi blesky as great as he was…we still follow rabbi elyashiv who was in a different league of gadlus.

    now as for the discussion …

    its sounds pretty convincing that it should be assur.

    where in th eworls are you going to find enoug h hair to support teh worldwode orthoodx women population
    ? itS gotta be coming from the temples in INDIA,
    DO YOU REALLY THINK SOME CHINESE CONVICTS CAN REALLY SUPPLY SO MUCH HAIR?.
    IS THERE ACTUALLY A MASS SELLING OF HAIR IN CHINA?
    I NEVER READ ABOUT IT.
    GOOGLE IT

    #1396527

    gavriel613
    Participant

    As far as I understand, the problem with sheitels which look like real hair is one of maris ayin, as it looks like the person isn’t covering their hair.

    This may well have been true several years ago – apparently one would see a woman with such a sheitel and wonder “did they get divorced/ go off”. However nowadays even the most insulated meioh sheorim Rebetzin knows perfectly well that they are sheitels designed to look like real hair. Even if they honestly had no way of telling at all, they would still assume that it was certainly a sheitel. They wouldn’t suspect the person of going off, just of not following her own standards of sheitels, which are highly praiseworthy like all Prishus, but halocho is not mechayev them. Or they would quote psokim from 30 years ago when realistic sheitels did have a maris ayin problem.

    Have any poskim said RECENTLY that realistic-looking shaitels are OSSUR (not just “in my opinion this is a loathsome”), and if so what is their rationale?

    #1396525

    dancingmom
    Participant

    When one delves into the history of sheitels, it is quite fascinating. Most women mistakenly believe that wigs were worn as head coverings by Jewish women for hundreds of years and that it is part of our mesora. The wigs that were originally mentioned in the Gemara, peah nachris (strange wigs) were never used as head coverings. Women who were balding or had thinning hair wore wigs in the house to make themselves more attractive for their husbands. Women always put on a scarf that covered all of the wig when they went out in public.

    #1396526

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The wig and extension industry is currently a billion dollar industry – it’s not just Orthodox Jews who are wearing wigs. Women from all over have caught on that they can beautify themselves tremendously with hair extensions and wigs. Actresses and models wear them all the time- it’s actually quite ironic that they are wearing these wigs for glamour and we frum women are wearing the same wigs for “modesty”.

    The only place in the world that has enough hair to supply the demand for human hair is India. Rav Elyashiv ruled that Indian temple hair is completely forbidden- even one Indian temple hair renders a wig assur. Since most of the hair In wigs is processed today (raw hair is actually not appealing to today’s market, hair is always processed to make it appear silky and shiny) there’s no way to test the wigs to determine where the hair comes from. So there’s definitely a serious problem here.
    Sheitels are an item of pritzus and idolatry- what Rabbi is going to want to deal with that?? What will women do if they can’t wear their beautiful 3,000 natural looking sheitels anymore where they can look like they are not covering their hair and resemble the stars in Hollywood? Imagine- women might have to wear (gasp) synthetic wigs or tichels like our ancestors did and we might actually look Jewish and like we’re covering our hair

    #1396532

    dancingmom
    Participant

    The sheitels today are creating a tremendous chillul Hashem – non Jews comment on them all the time confused about how these wigs can be worn for modesty.
    As one professor wrote in a new book that is all about the hair industry:
    “The logic of the sheitel is elusive to most people outside the Irthodox milieu and poses complex questions even to people within it. What is the logic of covering hair with hair? Don’t naturalistic wigs that can’t be recognized as wigs defeat the very purpose of covering? How can it be permissible for a woman to use her own hair in her sheitel when the only reason she is wearing it is to hide her hair? And if a wig is more attractive than the hair it covers doesn’t it attract rather than deflect male attention? By investing so much time and money on wigs, aren’t women prioritizing material over spiritual matters? Are today’s sheitels actually more about fashion than modesty? Can the two be compatible?”
    These are common questions that many have. unfortunately people in the frum world will find every excuse possible to justify their wigs (our society is obsessed with sheitels even to the point where they all have names and are constantly discussed everywhere one goes)- it’s become an avoda Zora in every way possible.

    #1396535

    dancingmom
    Participant

    As I quoted earlier Rav Elyashiv said that he only permitted short stiff and wiggy wigs as did many other major poskim such as Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, Rav Wosner and many others.
    A natural attractive wig defeats the entire purpose of the mitzvah.
    The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
    אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי (תרומת הדשן)
    The prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered. All the Rishonim and Achronim have said that this is the reason that a woman must cover her hair in public. (For many sources on this Divrei Shalom is a great resource.)
    Most of today’s wigs beautify women tremendously, usually much more than their own hair! It’s become a mockery of the mitzvah

    #1396546

    refoelzeev
    Participant

    I’m very curious how it is known that the vast majority of sheitels come from India. Obviously if the information is true the psak would be to oser, but where did this information come from? Who told it to the gedolim?

    #1396540

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    The majority of poskim are mattir natural wigs.

    Is it modest to wear an attractive tichel?

    You can repeat the alleged psak from R’ Elyashiv as many times as you want, but it’s certainly not the accepted one.

    Are there immodest wigs? Sure there are. There are also immodest tichels and hats and all articles of clothing (even if they give full coverage), but a blanket statement that a natural statement is inherently immodest is incorrect.

    Again, if real looking hair we’re inherently immodest, single girls would have to cover their hair.

    #1396559

    DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    It’s very possible that based on the norms in their communities, certain poskim assered certain types of shaitels in their communities.

    That psak would not apply to communities with different norms.

    #1396570

    Joseph
    Participant

    The assertions that most poskim are mattir natural wigs or that their wives wear such, are both factually incorrect.

    Check out the many sh”ut on wigs. You will find yourself surprised. Most are assur. The heterim are weak.

    And Rav Elyashiv’s Psak isn’t “alleged”. It is real and undisputed that he issued it.

    #1396571

    YemJ
    Participant

    I am a shaitel macher. I have been for over 18 years. I can attest to the back room corruption of this industry. The hair retailed to the public is often not what it’s labeled to be. The rabbanim know it. There is no public outcry by our leaders ( this was told to be directly by several rabbanim) because they feel that the Klal isn’t “up to” hearing the emes. They fear putting info out that they think the public cannot handle. It’s no mitzvah to do so. However there are many women who are “up to” hearing the emes and are very capable of modifying their current practices if given the opportunity. I am B”H one of those women. It’s a hard journey. It’s not for everyone. Making the info public will give an opportunity to the Klal to show their strength and resolve to grow. It’s not about “assuring,” it’s about giving chizuk and credit to those who are willing to be moser nefesh and make small or large changes to that end. Life here is a journey of growth. Not everyone is at the same stop, but keeping an open mind an accepting info even if it’s not what you are up to is part of propelling ourselves forward. May we all have the zechus to see our opportunities for growth without stepping on someone else’s along the way.

    #1396572

    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “As one professor wrote in a new book that is all about the hair industry:
    “The logic of the sheitel is elusive to most people outside the Irthodox milieu and poses complex questions even to people within it. What is the logic of covering hair with hair?”

    I never realized that halacha is determined buy what professors find elusive. If I find Parah Aduma elusive do we just ignore it?
    does the professor find the logic that A warm Kli Rishon is hot enough to cook, but a hot kli sheini is not elusive? If he does I guess we can get rid of “kli sheini eino mevashel”
    Does he find the logic that a 32 oz steak is not a kvius ie it is a “snack” regaring kiddush bemokom seuda and sukah, but a few cookies is a “meal” elusive. I really want to start eating cookies out of the sukah, please let me know what the professor paskens.

    #1396574

    dancingmom
    Participant

    Here are the words of more Gedolim:

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Shalom Shwadron Zatzal:
    And why do they wear a sheitel, not because they want to cover their hair, but because it’s nicer that way. And my grandfather MaHarsham said it is assur to read krias Shema or any word of kedusha in front of a sheitel, and said that a women like this violates a tremendous issur and is doing something against the will of Hashem and those who fear him.”

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Yitzchak Isaac Rosenbaum-the Admor form Nadvorna Zatzal
    the peah nochris is for vanity and pritzus, to incite the yetzer horah, so men will look at her The Chasam Sofer:
    Be careful from the bad of bad women… even with a peah nochris I forbid you with an issur gamur.”
    (בצוואתו לבני ביתו)

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Yosef Chaim Zonenfeld Zatazal and HaRavH”G Rav Yisroel Salanter Zatal:
    Put anyone who’s wife had the chutzpah to wear a sheitel in cherem.
    HaRav HaGaon Rav Yehuda Tzadka Zatzal:
    A Women who walks with a peah nochris is gaava and and sin with forbidden thoughts rachmana litzlan. Many have been punished for this rachmana litzlan.

    HaRav HaGaon Rav Ovadia Yosef zatzal:
    One must assur a women to leave her house with a sheitel adamantly . He
    Quotes many tens of poskim besides for these who absolutely assured sheitels and says that it’s a mitzvah to publicize the issur, and those that listen will reap tremendous blessing from Hashem. (In all of his awesome Teshuvot)

    #1396605

    Gadolhadorah
    Participant

    If all the collective energy and passion that the MEN here in the CR devote to women’s sheitels and other issues concerning women and ervah, tzinius, were focused instead on self-introspection and inward directed musar, there is a very high likelihood we would have seen z’man moisiach by now. Its a lot easier to vent about a woman’s sheitel or a perceived decline in tzinus on 13th Avenue than to really look inside oneself and undertake truly transformative changes in one’s lifestyle and own hashkafah.

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