TheBigOne

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  • in reply to: the shidduch system #1202958
    TheBigOne
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    If you reread my comment you’ll understand why the research needs to take place before the first date.

    in reply to: the shidduch system #1202955
    TheBigOne
    Member

    There is no way you could know from a three hour date as much as is determined via research prior to the date. The research is vital to insure the subtleties, hashkafic compatibility and not immediately obvious middos are a match between the potential couple. There are many things that don’t make themselves obvious or known on a date or even multiple dates that one must diligently research. Additionally, once the couple meets and there becomes an emotional connection, even if an incompatibility is found that should have clarified that they are for whatever reason not for each other, the emotional connection or infatuation can wrongly override the common sensical and proper approach of discontinuing the potential shidduch.

    in reply to: To: benignuman Re: Extrajudicial death penalty in halacha #1023382
    TheBigOne
    Member

    Sam2, We will have to disagree on that because the implication of your position is that a Jew who eats a bacon sandwich in an open cafeteria every morning is not committing a c”H so long as he is doing it because of his taaiva rather than trying to promote bacon as kosher. Regarding mishkav zochor, almost all its Jewish practitioners as well as a majority of its non-Jewish practitioners are aware that it is a violation of Biblical law.

    But irregardless of that point I brought a second rationale of this transgression being promoted in an increasingly widespread and increasingly public arena to advocate it as normative and as acceptable as a normal lifestyle.

    in reply to: To: benignuman Re: Extrajudicial death penalty in halacha #1023380
    TheBigOne
    Member

    benignuman,

    I thought I was clear that the basis for executing mishkav zochor practitioners today is due to it spreading, the reason you acknowledged under your category (b). And indeed it is currently in the process of becoming made more widespread and mainstreamed with the practitioners in the midst of a global push to normalize this behavior through national and international marriage laws and other similar such actions on the legal, social and cultural fronts, especially in the public arena. This more than qualifies it to implement capital punishment for this reasoning.

    Furthermore, even the reason you categorized under (a) as for allowing executions under special circumstances is applicable in this case. A Chillul Hashem is something going against Hashem in public. The heavenly prohibition against mishkav zochor is universal in law, applicable to all mankind. Violating this prohibition, especially in a public and ostentatious manner as the current crop of practitioners are increasingly doing and pushing on society is a c”H of massive proportions and this qualifies as a special circumstance under both rationales.

    Regarding your last point to me, the comment you quoted of mine was a response to the last point you made in your first comment on this thread, namely your statement of “such executions would not work to stop mishkav zachor”. Therefore, in response to that rationale of yours against executing mishkav zochorniks I pointed out you could have equally made that point about executing murderers, yet you refrained from doing so. And I will reiterate that providing this penalty for this crime, in fact, will lead to an immediate and severe reduction in this terrible crime being openly proclaimed in the public arena as being normal, legitimate and publicly being declared to be the practice of its pride members.

    in reply to: To: benignuman Re: Extrajudicial death penalty in halacha #1023375
    TheBigOne
    Member

    benignuman,

    1. You think the rabbi that was in the news is of the paygrade where he can asses a case from its news reports and determine that it warrants killing Jews?

    2. You wrote: “If there is a way under the law on the books to execute the terrorists that murder the three Jewish boys, I would support that as well.”

    Why, then, is not your finding it acceptable to execute the Jewish teens only limited to “if there is a way under the law on the books to execute” (which you know there is not)? Why are you placing this limitation only on potentially executing the Arabs?

    3. And most importantly, in regards to my last question, why are you suddenly hesitant and wish to limit the application of the capital punishment for the crime I cited to go strictly by the books whereas you in the previous case (of a Jew killing an Arab) were readily citing allowances the law makes to apply capital punishment even where the strict requirements were not met? Just as you indicated the punishment could be applied even where it didn’t meet all the technical legal requirements for its implementation, the same principles applies in the crime I used as an example. Yet there you are getting all shy about that application. I submit, perhaps subconsciously perhaps not, it is due to the current secular societal environmental views of how good or bad each of these two sins are, that leads you to these two different conclusions. As far as it being a c”H to punish those committing that crime, that is clearly not the case. It cannot be a c”H to enforce Torah Law just because secular society considers it to be a mitzvah something the Torah considers to be of the worst (and a capital) aveiras. As you well know, the crime I cited is now widespread, a condition traditionally cited in halacha justifying executing beyond the letter of the law. As far as your point that such a punishment would not stop it, if this punishment was carried out on a widespread basis it certainly would severely reduce the instances of the crime and would absolutely stop it from being committed with public impunity where those doing it are vocal and open about it. Furthermore, executing the Jewish teenagers would also not stop murder yet you didn’t let that bother you in not citing that as a reason against executing them.

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