Out Of The Mailbag – To YW Editor (Time For Shul!)

77

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yw story logo2.jpgRecently, during a yeshiva off shabbos, I noticed many yeshiva bochurim coming to the 9:00 shachris at a place which is notorious for starting on time. Only, some streamed in at 915, others at 920… And some even later than that. And worse, these bochurim who came late didn’t appear to be rushed or even concerned that they were late – they mosied along, looked around to see what pals were in shul, found someplace discreet to schlep out their tefillin… The clincher was the one bochur who somehow was magically able to start davening while the tzibur was up to shemoneh esrai, and still be done before everyone else!

Of course, there were those who were early/on time, to whom a groise yaasher koach is in order. But what I don’t understand is: yeshiva bochurim have no family. They are not out making a living during the week. They don’t have a wife to make breakfast for before leaving for shul. So why can’t yeshiva bochurim be on time for shul? Is this something which is not stressed enough in yeshiva? Is davening that unimportant that the time when you roll into shul doesn’t matter? I wonder how many bochurim miss their trains or planes when returning to yeshiva. How many bochurim come late to their friends chasunas?

It is important for everyone, not only bochurim, to be on time to shul. A baal habus has certain responsibilities that a bochur does not, and therefore, cannot always make it on time. But there is no excuse for bochurim who are learning in yeshiva not to make it on time (besides for the fact that it makes a bad impression on the yeshiva, rebbeim, and roshei yeshiva).

Concerned for our Tefilla.


77 COMMENTS

  1. ever thought that atleast their going to minyan?
    who knows where these boys are coming from?

    you probably have the best intentions of writing this letter, but maybe you should just concentrate on your davening and let each bochur fend for himself.

  2. I cant agree more than that IT IS SO TRUE i was recntly somewhere for shabbos forget strolling in late to minyan these regular yeshiva boys who come from good yeshivas decided it was to cold outside to walk to shul in plain english lazy so they davened without a minyan at home yes i really dont think they stress MINYAN all together in yeshivas they can learn from here till tomorrow its all very nice but to miss minyan or come late to minyan is unacceptable and this should be the first question a girl should ask about boy not how cute he is etc but does he daven with a minyan and if he is on time to davening and takes tefillah seriously yes thats what they sholud start stressing in yeshivas!!!!

  3. did you ever heare of the yeitzer hara?
    i am not saying they are right, but if you can not understand the urge to sleep late then you are detached.

  4. #1
    a good purim spiel’
    tefilla is avoda .the gemora in megillah has a machlokas which is bigger; avodah or learning.
    the point raised is valid and the yeshiva boys should not act so indifferent to tefillah.
    thank G-d for the daily 9:30 morning minyan.

  5. Indeed most probably the act of prayer means little to these boys. Why should it? Aside from the techincal minutia of the Halachik requirement to daven, what do we teach our kids about the act of prayer? Do we really impart to them the significance that comes along with beseeching the King of all kings? Do we really impart to our children that they are speaking to G-d when they pray? And what of appreciation for the liturgy? How many yeshivot teach the students the history of the development of the siddur? How many of our yeshiva students know enough Hebrew language to be captivated and moved by the linguistic beauty of our prayers? Do we publicly present our prayers in aesthetically appealing way, in a setting designed to inspire the worshipper? The answer to all these questions ia a resounding no. What then should we expect? At best, boys pick up the notion that they must daven with great concentration so that G-d will fulfill their needs. But adolescent boys have no real needs. They get everything from their parents (as it should be). They have no understanding of the travails of life (yet). Since to them prayer is born simply of need plus Halachik requirement (or more accurately the rules of the yeshiva), it’s not surprise they are lax about it. Only when we teach our children that the purpose of prayer is to ennoble their souls and that it is not simply a means to an end, and teach them the true meaning of the prayers, and present them in a fashion designed to express their inhereent granduer, will they begin to take prayer seriously.

  6. the man hit it right .yeshiva bechurim are smach bochur byaldusecha,when they will be in your shoes they will certainly be on time. otherwise b “h for our minyan factories,that they are responsible to daven tfillah bzibur even if it’s after nine

  7. To be fair, this problem is not limited to bochurim, but it does seem worse if they do it, because like the letter writer said, they are not in a rush to go anywhere. If a bochur consistently comes late, it shows that it’s not important to him. All the gedolim that I know always come on time to davening and go slow even thought the quality of their learning is way above ours.
    I could have been one of the bochurim that the letterwriter is complaining about, but fortunately I made an effort to listen to tapes by Rabbi Shlomo Bravds Shlita and Rabbi Avigdor Miller ZTL, which changed my perception of davening for the better. If there is no consistent mussar seder addressing the issue, it is almost impossible to have the motivation to daven properly everyday.

  8. #1 pashuteh yid.. now your talking the right way.yasor koach..tell me you also do securities on line so you can spend day like me watching out…

  9. Thank you Mr.Concerned for helping me understand why people sometimes come late to shul,because there making breakfast for their wives. Just wondering, do you actually make breakfast for your wife? See you at the 10’clock minyan!

  10. Dear concerned for our Tefila,

    Why are you looking around so much at everyone else:
    1) when they came in,
    2) who their pals are and where they are sitting,
    3) when they finished (maybe the person who came late and finished on time started at an earlier shul and left before yistabach b/c they didn’t have a minyon).

    Instead, you should be showing concern for your own tefila.

    perhaps your letter should be addressed to yourself. you could write how in your shul there is a person who proudly comes on time, but, he looks around the whole time to see who is late, how late they are, where the latecomers sit, when they finish, etc. Somehow this person always finishes on time with the tzibbur, even though he hardly has time to look in his own siddur do to his monitoring of others.

    If you have something to say to these young men, say it to them privately, calling it out here is not productive and casts aspersions on you the letter writer who claims to be concerned about Tefila.

  11. A few noteworthy details about this letter:

    1)This is about a 9am minyan. I suspect the zerizim who treat their learning as work were also davening at 7 or maybe 8, not moseying in at 9.

    2)’notorious for starting on time’- Since when is starting on time bad? Better is should read “famous” or “lauded” for starting on time.

    To be dan l’caf zechus, there are those who have a seder of learning before davening.

  12. Your the type of guy who looks at everything with a negative eye. You worry about everyone else but yourself! You don’t know the reason for their lateness or their early exit! Don’t just decide by looking at someones actions that they’re wrong. If your such a Tzaddik be “Dan Lekaf Zechus”. Remember to mind your own buisness! Also you are so out of touch with what teenage bochurim go through in this day in age. A married person for the most part has a feeling of purpose getting up everyday, as opposed to alot of Bochurim who are trying to find their way in this world. Please settle down!

  13. Hey Folks, and especially Cantoresq
    Did it ever dawn on you that teenagers may just not be MATURE enough to appreciate tefillah? Maybe they DO stress it in Yeshiva! They stress learning and bochurim batul too! Sometimes adolescents (and beyond) do not comprehend things and appreciate them fully. Keep them in the right pathand IY”H thy’ll learn to appreciate tefilah. No need to point fingers. Tell them off and they’ll never WANT to learn to appriciate it. Be patient folks, give some loving mussar, and try to help them. These kids may one day be our gedoilim!

  14. What about all the married men left out, jusy because they have a job/kids or whatever else, that should not make it okay for them to be late?

    Its hard to get up and be on time when bachurim stay up late and smoke and play cards all night (or maybe learn…)

    In the end, we all have our strong points and weak points. Lets fix ourselves and then try to help others

    Besides, I think better it’s to be late for a minyan, than those who talk/play on their phones during davening (chazoras hashtaz especially.

  15. one of the big problems in klal yisroel is knowing when and how to express an opinion. whenver one comments about a problem, he is being negative. however does anyone ever consider that some bochurim need a heavy dose of mussar regarding showing up for davening and not (sh!) shmoozing during davening.on the 1 hand , it is great to be dan lekaf zechus on the other hand when that is the excuse for ignoring the issues, we do ourselves no favor as it is obvious that hashem is not willing to simply ignore our faults as is evidenced by r”l all of the cholim not to mention all of the turmoil and destruction happening around the world. hasjem yerachem( so keep on being ” dan lekaf zechus” and i sure hope that you apply this wonderful midda to all spheres and all people across the spectrum)

  16. And one more thing. These kids are under lots of pressure during the week, at leat give them a break that they wake up s little late. Besides every profession has its nisyoinois, this is the nisayoin of bochurim. At least the’re not at concerts the night b 4!

  17. In this day and age, If the worst thing we could find to complain about our young bochurim is that they’re coming late to davening, I think we’d be in great shape. As a father, I’d be ecstatic if this was the worst problem I had to deal with with my kids.

  18. #20
    it just so happens in a magazine in Lakewood there was a woman who thought shes being smart and gona write a letter. she wrote that how can a yeshivishe guy not be embarressed to go daven past an 8:00 minyan!! the feedback she got, let me tell you, lets just say she hopefully changed her view the next time she sees a guy going to a 9:00 minyan.

  19. I agree with cantoresq. Bochurim must be taught the real meaning of tefilah. And books like “Rav Schwab on Prayer” are required reading for everyone, bochurim and adults alike.

  20. Of course it’s not ok to be late to davening. However, there’s also no difference whether you’re a bochur or a baal habus with a day job. Do not make distinctions between the two groups because both have to attend minyan. There are always times when something comes up and people come late or can’t make minyan at all, but to single out yeshiva bochurim by saying they have nothing else to do is wrong. It’s almost as if you’re, chas v’shalom, saying that all yeshiva bochurim are lazy and of course nothing could be further from the truth. Ba’al habatim should be thankful for the people who learn in yeshiva because all the parnassah that comes into this world is only through their zechuyos.

  21. Ploini, I learned in yeshivot, they don’t teach tefila and you know it. In which yeshiva do the rabbanim sit down and teach the siddur to the bochurim? How many bochurim actually know that Shmoneh Esre has 19 brachot? Do they know the history of the amidah? Can they translate and relate to piyutim? How many bochurim are aware that the bulk of kedusah is piyutim? Can they diffrentiate between an ofan and a yotzer? How can they even translate the siddur word for precious word? Unless they understanad the siddur and its construct, why would anyone ever take davening seriously?

  22. I think bochurim who are showing up during the zman to these late minyanim are irresponsible, and their parents should send them to an out of town yeshiva where there aren’t factories for shachris, and the mashgiach will make sure they come on time. As far as guys dragging themselves in during bein hazmanim, I don’t think “bochur” is the right description, but rather “teenager.” It’s commendable if they do otherwise, but I don’t think it should be so surprising that after an intense zman (and out of town it is much more than in town), the bochur wants to take it easy a little. I had a friend that I learned with bein hazmanim that he davened at around 9:00-9:30 (I drove in from another town, so I davened first), and then we learned from whenever he finished until around 1:00-1:30. I thought that was a nice balance of “chilling out,” and learning during bein hazmanim.

  23. Blessings to you hashem ‘sheahsani kertzono”.

    “intense zman -and out of town it is much more than in town” – where specifically did you check that out?

  24. Excuses always will be found,but that will never make it OK. A group of Yeshiva boys who regularly come on Shabbos and Yom Tov late,,who talk during tefillo,who walk around, pay no attention to Kaddish,Chazoras HaShatz,IT IS A TERRIBLE THING AND NO EXCUSE is acceptable. Unfortunately their fathers and even some rabbeim do it too. WRONG IS ALWAYS WRONG!

  25. If they are not educated in the importance of tefilla including the translation and Kavonos then what do you expect. A seder in tefilla should definately by considered.
    Sometimes when they mature and get out into the world they begin to appreciate it.

  26. Whats the deal with these “concerned” people raising their complaints about our daily behaviour? Leave it up to the Baalei mussar who have a Koach versus some unknown who is just out to criticize.

  27. Person Letter Writer,

    How about all you married people that make a mad dash for the doors during Uva L’tzion so they could take off their tallis & tfillin outside the bais medresh?

  28. I was always looking for an excuse to explain my lateness to davening… Well, I’M MARRIED & HAD TO PREPARE MY WIFE BREAKFAST!! (Mother’s Day, anyone?)

  29. Why are you so worried about yeshiva bochrim, leave them alone, lets not start up with the wrong people,
    Why dont’t you worry about your self, i.e. is the meat and chiken you eat kosher?
    if your looking for someone to criticize its the american kashrus companies, pulling wool over your eyes, Just read Hagoan Rabbi Barenbaum’s letter to Kashrus comapnies, did they listen to the gadol hador? to Dass Torah? No!!
    Why Dont you criticize them? After all you are eating thir food.
    lets Start worrying a little about ourselves for once!
    Mr. Harry

  30. englishteacher,

    Please do not take this being negative, but for someone who chose the moniker “englishteacher” – WOW! I hope that you are extremely lenient when you grade your students in the areas of puncuation and capitalization. Perhaps some basic grammer lessons are in order.

    Signed,

    one of the biggest “typo artists” on the board.
    :o)

  31. When I was a bochur, I rarely came to minyan, nebech, let alone on time. My menahel used to k’nass the daylights out of us – yes, I wasn’t alone!

    Today it’s a different story, boruch haShem. Ashrei ziknusainu she’kipperah al yaldusainu. I hope my t’shuvah for this avairah is complete by the fact that I am now regularly (about 95% or better) on time, the fact that I gave my old menahel a ‘yaher koiach’ for all the k’nassois and shmuezin, and that fact that I do the scheduling – yes, z’manei t’fillah – for various shuls.

    Yes, the yeshivois DO stress the importance of on-time-ness to davening and t’fillah b’tzibur. Sometimes, though, one doesn’t get the message until he’s 59 and staring oilam ha’emes in the face…

  32. and did you notice if the bocher who came late today is the same one as yesterday or before?? and the men…so now “lo nitnen hatorah l’malchai hashores”,there are people with problems pressing, yes also bucherim,here and there one is not in mood to get up(remember the one who had fight with yetzer horah the beat him by 10 am)so dont expect all klall yisroel to get up like soldiers and come martching into shul like you want, even bocherim. what about the bocherim that come on time? your probably sleeping then and dont see them.. P.S. to #26 paushute yid how can we be enemies or friends if i dont know you and you dont know..thats the good thing on blogs

  33. what is your problem with the bochurim coming so late they are practiing for Kollel life.
    when I go to Eretz Yisroel I always daven in the famous shtiebel Zichron Moshe which is near alot of yeshiva diros of bochurim who come back to the states and are the so called long time learners . I try to make the 8 am minyon and hardly find any bochurim at that hour. when I am ready to leave at 9 this is when many show up.On shabbos when I come to daven mincha at 1PM I find plenty of bochurim still davenning shacharis and mussaf because they woke up late and didn’t want to miss their shabbos seuda

  34. Am i missing something. It was on an ‘Yeshiva off Shabbos’ and they ‘schlep out their tefillin’. i thought that ‘Shabbos v’Yomtov lav z’man teffilin’

  35. Excellent post.
    It is really a shame seeing the lackadaisical attitude of many towards t’filloh.
    “D’vorim ho’oimdim b’reemoh shel oilam, u’b’nei odom m’zalzalim bo’hem.
    Let me just exhort you to remember the following; you GET to go daven not you HAVE to go daven. Just imagine you had something specific to ask of Hashem, wouldn’t you be waiting for the next t’filloh? ( Are you going to let Hashem wait for YOU?)

  36. I strongly disagree with painting all Yeshiva Bochurim with the same brush! While some Bochurim may Daven late, you can’t make a statement against all of them – it’s untrue & unfair.

    The writer should perhaps focus on the THOUSANDS of Bochurim who come to Daven in their Yeshivos on time. What a Kiddush Hashem!

  37. yeshiva bochurim have no family. They are not out making a living during the week. They don’t have a wife to make breakfast for before leaving for shul. So why can’t yeshiva bochurim be on time for shul?

    Are you kidding? That’s exactly why they’re not on time!

  38. mdlevine;
    I was more concerned with making the point than spending time reviewing the caps etc.btw i am not the “english teacher” it is a family member. However when I see so many fools stating so much narishkite I feel compelled to try and point out what I think is obvious but never seems to get said

  39. Being a yeshiva Bochur, I would like to respond to this hypercritical individual. I do not wish to demean Baalei Batim, I just wish to make some comparisons. You rant and rave about the long and stressful hours you work. Well the average guy works from 9 to 5 with an hour lunchbreak, an average of 7 hours. A yeshiva bochur starts his day at 9:30 and it doesn’t end until 10 at the earliest. Many bochurim stay until 12,comenhome at 12:30 and don,t go to sleep until way past 1 or 2. Is it so bad if they come a few minutes late to shacharis.

    P.S. I’m writing this Bein Hasedorim

  40. its very easy to criticize bochurim because people seem to have some image that they have to be the elitist of society and in a perfect world they would be however if they don’t have chashivus for minyan why is it the yeshivhas fault? maybe its te parents who the kids see not respecting minyan and talking etc. its always easy to shift blame

  41. Finally someone complained about something meaningful. This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long time. Not only the Bochrim, Bal Habattim also. Yes I can say without a doubt that I do not ever come late for Shachris. Not after staying at the Rebbe’s chasuna until 3:45AM, or waking up and finding my car with a dead battery. And I am not talking about the 9:00 or 9:30 minyan, I am talking either 7:00 or 8:00. #1, are you out of your mind? If these guys had to wake up at 7:00 to go to a Yankee game, you could be sure that they would all be there 15 minutes before the required time. Is Zman Krias Shema not a D’Oirisa? Planinly put, Davening is not as important as learning. All you here is Bittul Torah, never Bittul Davening. The first Halacha in the Mishna Brurah talks about waking up like a lion to Davening. All you givers of excuses, GIVE ME A BREAK.

  42. It is very touching that “concerned for our tefilla” is concerned about the spiritual well being of these boys. May I ask a simple question? Why is it any of his business and if he is so concerned with tefilla (and assuming he was in shul at the start of davening), how and why is he noticing when these boys are arriving or how long they take to daven? He should be immersed in his own tefillot.

  43. I am also one of those baalei batim who has a tendency to be critical of yeshivah bochorim (and other baalei batim) on this matter and I agree that perhapos some measure of being dan l’kaf zchus and big picture perspective is in order.

    But maybe we need to ask ourselves why so many baalei batim have this cynical attitude. Maybe it’s becasue we are tired of being treated as second class citizens becasue we go to work. Maybe for a change all we’d like is little simple acknowledgement that getting up for minyan, supporting your family, and finding time for k’vias itim is also worthy of some prasie as being a Torah lifestyle.

    But maybe that’s asking too much. sorry for being cynical. ooops…gotta go to shul for maariv.

    Later.

  44. Koil HaKavoid to all the late yeshiva buchrim out there. Finally you’re giving hockers like this concerned writer something to write about. There’s Pashut much more important things to write about than how late some buchrim are to shul. For Example: the increase in size of hat brims or the color of jackets buchrim are wearing nowadays. Please Focus on your own davening and stop peering around the shul during it!!!!

  45. I agree with cantoresq. There are so many english written seforim on the meaning of tefillah and what it does for the individual, just for example the sefer of “Rav Schwab on prayer” from Artscroll explains to you the very depths inside of every tefillah from Adon Olam to the very last words of Shemonei Esreh and where you stand as you get closer towards saying the Shemonei Esreh as you are coming closer to the Melech Malchai HaMlochim. If you have ever sat in front of any gadol hatorah such as Rav Moshe z’tsl and watch him daven you would be inspired to know what you are davening and how to daven.
    I have seen very often, and not just bochurim but baal habatim who come to shul late put on tallis and tefillin after borchu and are out the door by kedusha.
    where is the kavod for tefillah?

  46. You may have a point–but since the zman is in full force right now–I hope no Bachurim are online to read this–so to whom is this addressed?

  47. It’s a very serious problem. I am also hurt by it, as I find it impossible to make it on time, no matter what the circumstances. I am consistantly 5-15 minutes late, no matter how far the shoul is, how much I slept at night, or what day of the week it is.
    Every day I curse myself for it, and resolve to do better tomorrow, but almost always fail. It is a clear displinary problem that I, and many many other Jews seem to have.
    The best way to explain the consistant tardiness by so many Jews, is Yetzer Hara. It seems that in this generation the Yetzer has chosen lateness to shul as a favorite weapon, striking too many with the desire to sleep for “five more minutes.” Of course it is completely illogical, as five more minutes won’t add you any more rest that the 6-8 hours of sleep you already went through. Also if you notice that people are very strict about getting up on time when it comes for being late for work, but seem to care less when it comes to davening in the morning.
    Do not despair, I do have a solution. The only significant time perios when I was able to make it on time almost every day was this summer. Basically I had a very detailed procedure that I would go through every morning, what time one alarm was set, what time the second alarm was set, what I would do after every alarm, at which point I would turn the light on, etc. It worked, as it tricked my brain into waking up orderly and on time. So try this perhaps, or maybe ask your rebbe for advise. That’s what he is there for 🙂

  48. Oh, and on another note.
    “They don’t have a wife to make breakfast for before leaving for shul.”
    Since when do husbands cook for their wives? Isn’t it meant to be the other way around?

  49. Stop worrying so much about everyone else’s Ruchnyus and your own Gashmuyus. Instead worry about your own Ruchnyus and everyone else’s gashmyus. Try it it works!

  50. Hey… those guys who make breakfast for their wives can give my husband some lessons!!! Then again, on second thought, it’s my honor to make my husband breakfast. He hasn’t been late to a netz minyan (which can start as early as 4:30 a.m.!) in over 20 years.

  51. #60: what do you mean “start worrying about everyone else’s gashmius” ? Does that mean we should try to look at their bank statement? or brokerage accounts (this is for pashutah yid)!

  52. I assume that before posting this letter you have seen this situation countless times.
    this means that you are always davening at 9:00(a great coincidence that yishivos give off only once every 4-8 weeks and you happened to be davening on Friday morning at the same minyon as them many times.)

    let me tell you a little secret, you cant be getting up that early yourself,
    bec. not many things are mutter to take care of before davening. see mishna brura and chai adom.

    The Yeshivah bochurim however are always davening at 730 in yeshiva and once they got a break they woke up late.

    BTW personal experience any minyon starting after 8 is not punctual, its meant for that type of guy!

  53. #49 – maybe one day you will grow up and join the real world. The typical frum working person with a family does not have a 9-5 day as you dream. We do go do a daf yomi before work – meaning we get up at 5:30 a.m. Many, if not most of us put, in at least 10 hours at work – meaning 9-7. Then there is a commute back home – meaning you get home roughly 8:00 p.m. How do you think your tutition gets paid? Then there is homework with children and other errands to be done around the house and then another seder in learning at night. And, yes, we manage to be in shul on time every morning -even Shabbos and Sunday.

    Stop dreaming. Maybe then you’ll wake up on time.

  54. I am not sure why you ask the question – “Is this something which is not stressed enough in yeshiva?”. What is stressed in the HOME? Is the bochur coming to shul 15 minutes late during the week, the same bochur whose father comes to shul 15 minutes late on Shabbos? I came from a family that stressed being on time (no, I am not from the Washington Heights Kehillah). And I am not only talking about davening but even for school, work or any other appointment. Being late for davening was defined as the middle of KORBANOS! (I know, some of you are wondering what that is.)

  55. pashute yid

    i think you misunderstood me, i was saying this guy should keep his nose in his siddur, rather then looking whose coming late to minyan, not if a guy is cute or not.

    #36
    meaning this woman or anyone else for that matter should take care of his/her problems and not pry into other peoples lives-because no one asked them to! get it?

  56. Pashuteh Yid you can joke as much as you want. Firstly, no the Yankees are not Kodesh. It is an outlet that I fully agree any Bochur, Litvish or Chasidush, should be able to attend, without anyone raising any questions regarding his Frumkeit. Except of course if they show them on the big screen during the kiss your friend contest. BTW, Lets Go Mets. Seriously, It becomes my business when bochrim or balei batim come in to davening late and sit around drinking coffee and talking on their cell phones or even worse, borrowing mine. I am sitting or standing and talking with the Ribono Shel Olam and they are shterring my Kavanah. These days there is enough garbage on peoples mind that they dont need any outside help. This is a problem that is not addressed enough in Yeshivas as they are to concerned with Bittul Torah. I am impressed with when these guys go to sleep at night, but if it causes them to wake up late to davening, its 100% wrong.

  57. why are people so busy being mekatrig. We have enough issues that present themselves why do we have to make ourselves look less worthy than we already are.

  58. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    To the writer: I understand your anger, however, I would like to point out something that was bothering me. I hope that you will think about it before lashing out.

    You are one of the finer baal-batim who come to minyan on time, why don’t you put more focus on your tefilla. You understand, you’re at the age where you have your priorities guiding you. Your high school/Bais Medrash education was in a totally different generation. Nowadays, there are hundreds of Yetzer Horah’s that constantly come up.

    Their Yeshivos are trying to counter the issue. Countering it with a remedy that shows their talmidim how sweet the Torah is, how much satisfaction they feel after a seder. Only after they experience an opening of its depth, will they continue searching and learning. Eventually growing and placing the priorities ahead, in order for it to guide them- becoming more shtark in their beliefs.
    Thanks for reading.

  59. #72 3 cheers …also how can she see who is shul she’s in her house..like the saying.. we see the glass 1/2 full she sees the glass 1/2 empty actually the glass is almost filled to the top but she sees the tiny thats not filled. any way tfilah was problem of the ages…see mesachtes brouchos 6b “eily d’vorim shoimed b’romo shel oilom u’vnei adam mezalzelim b’heim” rashi “k’goin tefila”..anyway the comparison to football is not valid..if one would have to go to football 3 time a day….get it…

  60. The truth is that these boys are plain lazy.The comments about others who should be davening instead of looking to see who came late is laughable. Would you allow untzniyus ads on a bus with the teineh that one should have his eyes in a sefer and shouldn’t notice it? People notice what is happening around them, don’t you?
    So, big shot learners, wake up la’avoidas Haboireh, and until you do, don’t shvitz about how frum you are

  61. #76. you want truth… the truth is that you do not know if the boys are lazy or not. you don’t know if the men who come late are lazy or not. you only know whether or not you are lazy. I for one would rather err on the side of the boys and the men and assume that they have a good reason. If you think it is a problem, talk nicely to the person and see if you can privately help them to understand the importance of being on time for Shul.

    regarding the ads is not an appropriate comparison for this conversation, however, I will address it: On a tape on this weeks Parsha, Rabbi M.M. Weiss states (I am paraphrasing – and I do not remember all the sources that he brought down) that if you step on a bus and see such an ad, you should avert your eyes (no second looks) and if you do overcome your yetzer hara, this act of conquering it, creates a favorable moment to doven to HaShem. (back to my thoughts) the same, I suppose, could apply to time spent in Shul. If a person conquers his y’h to look around and judge others, perhaps that is also a good time to doven and make requests to HaShem

  62. Everyone should have a Good Shabbos is right. Pretty soon us Yidden are going to be given the opportunity to serve the one above with Mishteh V’simcha. Lets all just try to realize that coming on time to daven is something that is worth the extra effort. The Zohar in Parshas Terumah (Yom Rishon In the Chok L’Yisroel) states that the first person who comes into daven early in the morning comforts Hashem by telling him that everyone will surely come to shul sooner or later. Is the extra 1/2 hour or 1 hour really that important? If you knew how upset it makes Hashem I think it would be easier to do. Let me tell you, it makes him pretty angry. If you dont believe me look at the Chok I mentioned.

  63. pashuteh yid

    thank you for your invitation, but i don’t think it’s going to be nogeah, i’m not really an older single, baruch hashem i’m young and have a beautiful family to spend shabbos with. and i enjoy kids so they wouldn’t have been a bother to me. btw it doesn’t sound like you know the type of boy i’m looking for. thanx anyway.

    again, have a wonderful shabbos.

  64. #77 thanks for shouting out.

    We learn something new everyday. Somedays, we get to review them.

    Today we get to review the fact that people find excuses for things that are just too hard. When something challenging arises, they act with no inner motivation guiding them. They simply brush it off. Its easier to be lazy. When a time for inspiration appears, they dont fully sieze and utilize its preciousness.

    Think. Its the right way.

  65. again any oppurtunity to lash out at bochrim
    Get a grip you were a teen once also and BTW RAV SHACH once left shachris very early whan asked whats wrong he said I’m very tired and I made the chesbon either a shtark shiur or minyan and decided that giving his shiur with full shtrength was better then minyan!
    heard from the person there b’shas maseh

  66. 1. To the people who would like us to be dan lkav zechus: Why don’t YOU be dan lekav zechus, and realize that when someone is trying to daven with lots of kavannah, they are constantly interrupted by people banging into their chair, walking in front of you when davening Shemoneh Esrai, and getting slapped by ritzuos from the tefillin, and being interrupted by conversations and back slapping…. Perhaps this is what lead the writer to write this post.

    2. Yes, I do make breakfast for my wife on Sunday mornings. And I do take out the trash. And vacuum….

    Duvdl