The following is the text of a speech by Hagon HaRav Moshe Sternbuch Shlita, RAVAD of the Eidah Chareidis, on the subject of the Iran deal and American Jewish lobbying, given as part of his opening address for the beginning of the Zeman at his yeshiva, Yeshiva Gedolah of Ramot.
It has become public knowledge that Agudath Israel of America successfully lobbied members of Congress to vote against the President of the United States on the Iran deal. Their actions are very dangerous for world Jewry, because they are involving the religious Jews in the Zionists’ actions against the government, and who knows where this may lead? If, at some time in the future, the world situation turns bad, Americans will immediately blame the Jews for influencing the government, and why should we get ourselves into such a mess?
Furthermore, Jews who live in Iran have come to me and told me that the government there allows them to keep Judaism fully, without any disturbance. The Iranian government only works against Zionism and the conquest of Arab lands, not against the observance of Judaism in their country. But if the Iranian government hears that Agudath Israel, which represents a large percentage of Torah observant Jews, is working against the American government’s peace plan, then all of Iranian Jewry is likely to be in great danger.
Therefore, it is the obligation of all American Jews and rabbis at this time to speak up against this, and to make known that they have nothing to do with this action, and that their role is only to strengthen Jewish observance, not to get involved in politics. Our Sages have already stated (Avos 1:10), “Do not get involved with government authorities.”
Long ago, when someone proposed forming a worldwide rabbinical organization, Rabbi Chaim Ozer Grodzensky of Vilna opposed the idea, and said that it would be a great danger to the Jewish people if one official were to be able to speak on behalf of all the rabbis in the world. And Rabbi Chaim Brisker himself, who helped establish Agudath Israel, separated from Agudath Israel when he saw that officials were likely to get involved in politics in whatever way they wished.
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38 Responses
I guess they’re writing speeches in his name again.
Thee things
1) I trust the Gedolim of Agudas Yisroel of America in their opinions on the matter. Gedolim like Rav Shmuel, Rav Dovid, Rav Mattisyahu Solomon, etc. Why is he interfering with something that regards American Jews that he is not involved in supported by our Gedolim? As much as I resepct Rav Sternbuch as a Talmid Chachim, this is not his area and he should stick to Eida and leave us in America to our rabbinim and stay out
2) “Conquest of Arab Lands”, So Rav Sternbuch denies that Eretz Yisroel is ours, and claims that it is Arab land? Regardless of the State of Israel, that land is ours and always has been.
3) I don’t know which Iranian Jews Rav Sternbuch is talking to, because the ones I’ve talked to, especially the ones who left Iran after the Islamic Revolution say otherwise. Jewish schools must teach that Islam is the true religion and not Judaism. Rabbi’s must pledge to the destruction of Israel and it’s inhabitants. Jews must also “donate” money to iran’s “palestinian relief fund, which goes to buy weapons for Hamas which kills Jews. Anyone who deos not donate is arrested as a israeli spy. And so on. What fantasy world is this Jews treated well in Iran is Rav Sterbuch living in? He is repeating the propaganda of an antisemitic regime.
The attitude like this is one of the reasons the Holocaust happened.
if he in fact said such stupidity then it makes a mockery of so called daas torah. exactly what happened during and before the holocaust!shame on him and his ilk.
I don’t believe Rav Shternbuch said this for one second.
Please let’s not begin throwing insults around and being mevazeh any Rabbonim. This is obviously a machlokes of Gedolei Yisroel with the American Moetzes holding that pressure should be levied and laymen should stay out of it.
“Jews who live in Iran have come to me and told me that the government there allows them to keep Judaism fully, without any disturbance.”
I have yet to meet an Iranian Jew who wasn’t glad to have gotten out.
“Americans will immediately blame the Jews for influencing the government”
No, Americans won’t. Americans will blame Mexicans, Blacks, Muslims, and Socialists first. Unfortunately we see that even in these comment pages.
Jews have been trying to influence the US government for centuries, sometimes with success, sometimes without. Although I am not lobbying in favor of any position on the Iran deal, there is nothing wrong with Jews lobbying on this or other issues.
It was opinions like this that were responsible for the pathetic lack of protest in America in the 1940s. (And please don’t point out that there was a rally in Washington run by Agudah in the 40’s, because one rally doesn’t suffice when “the world is burning!”)
Kol kakavod R” Moshe
Plus in fact a deal needs to get done.
If not they will have nuclear soon what they need to do l. fight the the deal should be a strong binding deal
it’s pikuach nefesh thus it’s an obligation to get involved even though it’s not ideal.
I’d rather take the chance and get involved than be a pile of ashes.
kudos to Agudas Yisroel in getting involved even though it’s murky.
Israel and the US are two worlds.
Rabbonim from there don’t understand America, especially not politically.
A few points.
1.Be it that the Iranian regime has only an issue with the zionists, not the religious Jewry living in E”Y. However if Iran drops a nuke not only will the zionists be affected.
2. Are the zionists not our brothers as Jews, are their lives Hefker and not worth our efforts to save? The Brisker Rov would cry bitter tears when he’d hear of a soldier dying in battle.
3. The Agudas Yisroel had more gedolim supporting it’s cause than otherwise. Didn’t Esther get involved in “politics” and weird her influence to save the Jews from calamity?
I look forward to all of Yeshiva World’s readers response to these points.
They might as well, he’s by and large irrelevant
This is and was always the Derech of the עדה חרדית
Because laying low and not getting involved has served the Jews so well throughout history……
IF he really said it he must have a short memory. The holocaust wasn’t that long ago. Maybe he us like the Nituri Kartah animals that want all jews wiped off the map.
Iranian govt is against “Zionist Jews” only…. Where does that thought come from??
A Jew is a Jew is a Jew is a Jew!!! Say that five times frontwards & backwards..
If this statement is really said in his name then this person is mevazeh talmidei hachamim. I’m sure it’s a forgery of some sort.
We must not let people tell us who are gedolei hador. Nor should we call gedolei hador because of knowledge shown. Gedolei hador are amazing people that have amazing values and what they stand up for. All the gedolei hador agree that we should stand up for the lives of millions of Jews. Iran deal is pure stupidity. It’s not even the route of democratic diplomacy. It’s a way america shows retraint to show its eagerness for a peaceful resolution that kisses the toes of Iranians. When the show is over and the republican takes the White House america will go to war. This has been the protocol for all major issues America has dealt with.
1. Show your civilized people.
2. But take care of the problem.
Obama knows this deal will collapse when the republican becomes elected. Obama is just following script.
whateva [16],
Yidden always did “shtadlonus” – trying in a nice way to influence rulers, starting with Yaakov Avinu sending a present to Eisav.
In this case – which Rav Shterenbuch might not know about America – it’s not viewed here as only a Jewish cause, but most Americans are afraid for themselves from this deal. It just so happened to be that in the NY area the constituency is Jewish, but we’re doing so as Americans also, not only as Jews.
Satmar should be the 1st to practice what they preach. For starters let them drop the bid to expand Kiryas Joel. It is opposed by the Goyim and pursuing it brings about Sinas Yisrael
To anyone who claims that this Rov is supporting the deal (isaacymt1), he isn’t. He’s only saying that we shouldn’t meddle in this matter because we could be scapegoated when things escalate.
With all due respect to this Rov, I don’t see his argument. First of all, what difference does it make if Iran allows Judaism in its country or not, when they, de facto, are the top supporters of terrorist attacks against Jews globally. Second, the majority of Americans are also against this so called “deal”. Third, he calls this a “peace process” – if it was a peace process it would be a treaty, and if it was a treaty Obama wouldn’t have the authority to act without Congress. The fact that he is being allowed to go through with this is testimony that this is no “peace process,” but simply a nuclear agreement. It sounds like the people feeding this Rov his information are misinforming him.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for R’ Moshe Shternbuch, who is famous both for his brilliant psakim and for standing up to the extreme right-wing crazies.
However, I do not believe that this opinion of his reflects the sentiment of most of the Gedolei HaDor. The Moetzes of the Agudah in America clearly disagrees, and I would be very surprised if the majority of the Gedolim in Eretz Yisroel (led by R’ Shteinman and R’ Chaim) didn’t as well. Acharai rabbin li’hatos.
If comments like sndinc continue to pass through moderation, then please remove the word yeshiva from your name.
Nobody read this last weeks paracha I guess. I completely agree with ASH. It amazes me what gets through ywn moderators.
Ps- I follow my rebbeim that totally disagree with this rov
I SAY ALL OF YOU CHILL OUT AND STOP LASHING OUT SUCH SLANDEROUS THINGS AGAINST OUR HOLY GEDOLIM!!!! If you have any questions on GEDOLIM speak it over with your rav. If you don’t have one then get one quick.
I SAY ALL OF YOU CHILL OUT AND STOP LASHING OUT SUCH SLANDEROUS THINGS AGAINST OUR HOLY GEDOLIM!!!! If you have any questions on GEDOLIM speak it over with your rav. If you don’t have one then get one quick. למה לא יראתם לדבר במשה וגו׳
There actually were a LOT of anti-Nazi protests in America, starting in March 1933. That month there was a rally with 55,000 people in NYC! Rabbi Moshe Margolies, the founding rabbi of Kehillath Jeshurun in Manhattan, spoke to the rally even though he was elderly, frail, and ill. But the leaders were mostly from non-frum Jewish organizations.
Dont say any loshon hora and bizoyon talmidei chachamin aspecially in elul eiTher he didnt say it ir his “gabaim” didnt tell him what the deal is all about
to: thinkingpositive
Time to “CHILL OUT” has long passed. Now it is time to fight for our physical survival. How can one “CHILL OUT” when a mushroom clouds are gathering over our heads?
They are Daas Torah.
what are you, a met fan?
Please rabbosai be careful in your words!! Rabbainu Yonah in shaarei teshuva (based on gemarah in perek chelek) writes that people who aren’t careful in their speech with the honor of talmidai chachomim whether in front of them or not become apikorsim who have no share in olam habah.
It’s unbelievable how many of you can speak out here without knowing a thing.
1. You are belittling a gadol hador. On that note itself all your words are meaningless.
2.it doesn’t affect him in israel? What are you people smoking they are the ones it affects the most not you living in the five towns drinking cocktails on sunday…get your heads out of your a$$.
3. He makes a very simple a true point that can not be argued with because the facts remains that is the reason why we take the fall every time there’s a problem and yet it’s people like you that are so blind to see it which is why it will happen again and again.
At the end of the day he is a gadol hador and if he said those words then they are to be respected by the like of me you and anyone else on this site because nobody here has enough merit to argue.
You speak about Reb Moshe as if he’s a poshuteh delivery boy !!!
Has anyone asked Rav Steinman or Reb Chaim for their opinion?
How would you guys react if they said the same thing? Would you speak the same way?????
הגר”ח שליט”א אמר לא לפעול נגד לסכל ההסכם בחדרי חרדים ו אלול
Hareidim have traditionally tried to be neutral in politics of goyim, or in the case of politics involving the goyim and Jews who act like and aspire to be goyim. The zionists unwisely started a war with the Muslimsl, and to the extent it is possible, it is wise of the hareidi world to be neutral.
Agudath Israel in all countries aspires to gain patronage on behalf of the frum community, and has come to be closely identified with the zionists (who liberally finance them).
If the Israelis were truely concerned abou the threat of nuclear war, they would try to negotiate an end to their conflict with the Yismaelim (which probably would involve giving up their concept of a secular Jewish state).
As several prior postings have noted, the substance of the statements attributed to Sternbuch is lunacy of the highest order (especially the notion that the Iranians really distinguish yiddeshkeit from Zionism as reflected in their holocaust denial statements etc.) Hopefully, the rav never made such a comment; if he did than old age and senility are more likely the concern than any legitimate “machlokes” between the American Agudah and Litvish rabbinical leadership in EY.
“Has anyone asked Rav Steinman or Reb Chaim for their opinion?
How would you guys react if they said the same thing? Would you speak the same way?????”
chilliworker2 #34:
Without doubt, the same above amaratzim who speak ill of מרן שר התורה הראב”ד שליט”א הגאון האדיר רבי משה שטרנבוך שליט”א, would similarly speak the same ill against Maran Sar HaTorah HaGaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky shlita and Maran Sar HaTorah HaGaon HaRav Ahron Leib Shteinman shlita if Rav Chaim or Rav Shteinman dared to have said the same thing as Rav Shternbuch, or for that matter if Rav Chaim or Rav Shteinman dared to say anything against the zionist religion of these amaratzim.