ארץ ישראל and the state

Zushy said:

“….somehow prove something about the state?”

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What those quotes prove is that relentless attacks
against The State of Israel and against “The Zionists”
are a very big mistake.

Certain people in this Coffee Room never stop
attacking The State of Israel and never stop
attacking “The Zionists”.

Those never-ending attacks are a very big mistake,
and only cause Jews to HATE EACH OTHER
more than before, and they also push us closer
to a JEWISH CIVIL WAR, with Jews killing other Jews.

Those relentless attacks against The State of Israel
and against “The Zionists” are NOT a mitzvah;
they are motivated by The Satan, who wants
Jews to HATE EACH OTHER more than before.

Those relentless attacks against The State of Israel
and against “The Zionists” are NOT a mitzvah;
they are motivated by The Satan, who wants
to push Jews into to a JEWISH CIVIL WAR, with
Jews shooting at Jews and Jews killing other Jews.

The Satan knows what Chazal teach:

The Jewish people will not be redeemed until
they become UNITED. So the Satan constantly
pushes the anti-Zionists into never-ending attacks
against “The Zionists” and against the world’s
only Jewish State, The State of Israel.

This never-ending lack of unity blocks Jews from being redeemed.
So long as anti-Zionists constantly attack “The Zionists”
and The State of Israel, the redemption can never come,
because Jews are very far from the unity that is requited for redemption.

Zushy – to answer your question, Chazal state – יפתח בדורו כשמואל בדורו. There are indeed pro-Zionist quotes attributed to the Gedolim of previous generations (besides for all the quotes that are taken out of context or just downright fabricated to portray a hasidic rebbe or rosh yeshiva as being sympathetic toward Zionist kefira חס ושלום). But notice that I said PREVIOUS generations – you will not hear any pro-Zionist statements from ANY of the current Gedolei Hador שליט”א. Baruch Hashem to that! This has been the case ever since the Godol of the Gedolim, the ineffable Rav Shach זצוקללה”ה, reinstated saying Tachanun on Yom HaAtzmaut in Ponevezh, despite the fact that the Ponevezher Rav omitted it. So we are obligated to follow the CURRENT gedolim who pasken without a doubt that ZIONISM IS KEFIRA!!!

The only reason you can go to Israel is _cuz_ of the zionist state. Your extremism is showing. If something happened in reality you can’t wash it away with your one size fits all speak. Things have different sides to it. Life might not agree with your “ideology” but you can’t force reality to bend to your will

Somejewiknow, so , you don’t want to recognize Israel as a Jewish state? Fine. In that case, it has a right, like any other legitimate government, to determine who gets drafted. So, if it’s not a Jewish state, what would be your justification to claim deferment as a Yeshiva student? Israel doesn’t need your recognition to draft you

There is a tangible link between the Ahavas Eretz Yisroel and the medina. Before the medina, for most Jews, ahavas Eretz Yisroel was only theoretical. The medina has enabled us to make our Ahavas Eretz Yisroel tangible. The medina enables all of us to return home to Eretz Yisroel and be mekayem yishuv Eretz Yisroel. The medina is fascillitating a modern day Kibutz Galuyos, which may very well be the precusor to Mashiach iyH. There is more Torah in Eretz Yisroel then any time in history since the fall of Beitar (and maybe even more than then), and there may very well be more Torah in Eretz Yisroel than anywhere in the world. The medina not only enables this but is the biggest funder of Torah. They provide services to enable us to live here and provide an army as HaShem’s tool to protect us from our surrounding enemies. While the medina is far from perfect, we are all better off with medina, and owe it our undying hakaras hatov.

I know the original founders were not only irreligious, but anti-religious. I don’t know how HKB”H will judge them, but what they were able to build for us is undeniable. Their positive impact for Klal Yisroel will be enjoyed by us for generations iyH. And sometimes, when I think about it, it makes me sad. Many of the Rabbonim at the time felt that this irreligious anti religious Zionisim was incompatible with halacha, And because of that, many young Zionists who became pioneers of the eventual state had to choose between Yiddishkeit and Zionism… and belieiving that they had no future in anti semitic and genocidal Europe, chose ZIonism and a future in Eretz Yisroel at the expense of Avodas HaShem. They believed the Rabbonim that Yiddishkeit and Zionism were incompatible… and abandoned Yiddishket.

But I wonder… did it have to be that way? I wonder what the modern state would look like if the early pioneers and founders didn’t feel like they had to choose between one and the other? If we had more religious Zionists from beginning combatting the anti-religious element. I wonder how that state would look like then…

But HaShem decided that that wasn’t how the state was supposed to look. HaShem chose to grant our yeshuos throguh non religious and anti religious, and granted them great success. Now we have a medina, we have Eretz Yisroel, the positives and the minuses… הודו לה’ כי טוב.