Rabbi Moshe Hillel Hirsch and the IDF (Israeli Army)

Certified Bubbe Maaisa.

yankel berel, we went a long way from complaining about prosecutions in our history – murders, limiting employment, unfair taxation – to complaining about the government requiring the community to perform at least some of their civil duty – work and defend against the enemies.

I understand the ideal of wanting to have a community that is all about Torah learning, but you have to be realistic, and “realistic” means behaving according to halachik norms in the situation Hashem put us. Say, you were to live in China – would you demand Chinese government to provide you with a stipend and a police force? Then, why you are demanding the same from Jews, whom you do not respect and who are not always willing to support you?
This is just no ehrlich. How do you call a person who forcibly extract money from another? Furthermore, I do not even understand the motivation – Hashem gives us mitzvos, why would I want to risk my olam haboh by refusing to defend, to fulfil my ketubah and by creating this terrible strife in a Jewish country. Maybe try to meet your requirements at least part of the way and see how it feels.

I’m sure these were fine fine bucherim. and the rosh yeshiva heard their cries of “we’re so unfulfilled serving Hashem, maybe we can server other gods?”, and the venerable Rosh Hayeshiva said to them with loving eyes, “yes, you may join the forces of evil and cause more bloodshed. go forth and bring violence to the world!”

I recall hearing that at his Shalosh Seudos tish in the Yeshiva, Rabbi Hirsh called out “Come and hear the new path! the salve for anyone who feels moderate discomfort in the study halls: grab a gun and risk your life for political power. This is the Torah (sic) way! This is how we shall send our children to die al kiddush Hashem(sic)! And then, no one will ever dare suffer ‘spiritual unfulfillment’ or ”financial hardships’.”

Yes this was all supposedly by his Shalosh Seudos tish, as reported by very very charedi Rabbi Yonatan Even-Hapina, a prolific online commentator and avid artscroll reader. It’s a shame his brilliant reporting was not sourced as I would love to interview the bucherim.

Oh, never mind, they died in battle. No, not the battle with the yetzer hureh, they died because the zionist commander sent them on a suicide mission as the state needed some tragic headlines to put pressure on the USA for better bomb support. Unfortunately news of their deaths didn’t get picked up in the press, but the good news is there are many more soldiers waiting in line for their next orders, so we can expect the bomb agreement eventually.

/s

SQUARE_ROOT:
If somebody were to endlessly spew propaganda for Jews for J, any normal Jew would answer that propaganda to prevent others from falling prey to idolatry and lies. Same here. Your hate should be directed to the wicked Zionists who have destroyed generations of Jews. But your idolatry tells you otherwise. So drop the idol.

Somejewiknow, STOP being motzei seim ra on the Jews. And you are not drawing anybody to your side doing so either — just getting people angry.

@ AAQ

Couple of things

1) Full time Torah Learning is a Civic Contribution of the Highest Order.

2) There are sizeable kehilos in EY who do not take a penny from the Government. Many, from families who came well
before 1948. They never asked for anything from the State.

For the above two categories military service is a none-starter. There is a caveat regarding category 1. In America, most frum yidden don’t stay in learning full time past 3-5 years in Kollel. The matzav in EY in the Chareidi communities is different then in the US but it is changing.

One of the obstacles to this change is mandatory military service for men who are not learning full time. Because…

3) Putting our sons (and daughters) under the authority of people who are at best ambivalent and at worst outright hostile to the Torah is not acceptable. And, unlike Hatzala, we can’t just pick up and make a private army.

In spite of the above, for those who are not learning full time a path to be able to be contribute economically and militarily needs to be found.

Do you have a realistic solution?

NP > Full time Torah Learning is a Civic Contribution of the Highest Order.

We have various models for that in Judaism. One is Yissachar/Zevulun – that is a valid contract between two willing participants. There are, B’H people willing to support learning. Not when one of them forces the other to pay. Another is – live on bread and water. Another is – work and learn at night. Another – get a profession, work several hours a day and learn.

Maybe the sentiment that you present is based on (unsaid?) assumption that the Jewish state is valuable – and we expect more out of it. Then, the community should publicly acknowledge that they see other Israelis as brothers and conduct conversation accordingly.

One of the links to Jewish Action referred to a story that R Soloveichik encountered in 1935 a stalinist kibbutz with a kosher kitchen. Turns out that R kook had previously visited the kibbutz on a Shabbat, had some inspirational time with them, did not criticize any of their behaviors and before leaving said “I hope we can also eat together next time”. They kashered the kitchen next day.

> Do you have a realistic solution?

From what I heard, the current bill is that realistic solution – military service for those who are not f/t learning with strict verification of that fact. Same way as it was during early times of Israel where Mir Rosh Yeshiva was imploring his students – I am certifying that Torah is your occupation, please do not make me into a liar. If this works, hopefully both sides will see it and learn how to talk to each other.