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Tiferes Shlomo writes,
“A person should contemplate how,
due to our many sins, the Holy Land is under Arab control.
This breaks a Yid’s heart, and he should
shout out to HaKadosh Baruch Hu.”SOURCE: Tiferes Shlomo מסעי ד”ה א”י כן מטה השני
SOURCE: Torah Wellsprings: Collected Thoughts from
Rabbi Elimelech Biderman Shlita: Devarim T”B [Tisha BeAv], page 41NOTE: Tiferes Shlomo was written by Rabbi Shlomo HaKohen Rabinowitz
of Radomsk, who lived from year 1801 CE to 1866 CE.During his lifetime, Eretz Yisrael was ruled by the Turkish Ottoman Empire,
not by Arabs, as is incorrectly stated in this quote.__________________________________________
PERSONAL COMMENT:Fanatical anti-Zionists claim that the State of Israel
should be dismantled, which would certainly result
in Arabs controlling ALL of Eretz Yisrael [G*D forbid].However, Tiferes Shlomo writes that the Holy Land
being under Arab control “breaks a Yid’s heart”.If the Tiferes Shlomo were with us today, he would
NOT APPROVE of any plan that
results in the Holy Land being under Arab control
— for example: dismantling the State of Israel.__________________________________________
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/users/square_root/topicsEretz Yisroel being controlled by Atheists would break his heart twice as much!
SQUARE_ROOT:
Zionism has caused you to miss the entire point of his message.
What “breaks a Yid’s heart”, according to the Tiferes Shlomo and all believing Jews, is that we are still in galus, that Hashem has not sent Mashiach to bring us all to E”Y with His king in control. The Turks (or Zionists, for that matter) being in control there is just a symptom of that problem, that Mashiach hasn’t come yet.Regarding you nonsensical accusations in your personal comment, I do not recall ever reading on these forums that anyone suggested that the Arabs should take over there. If you check my other posts, however, for my own humble opinion, you’ll see that I wrote that it would likely be Eisav in control, not Yishmael. But, regardless, the idol of Zionism and its “National” bodies can and will end when Hashem sees fit to finally end that nightmare of Zionism.
Perfect.
He writes “he should
shout out to HaKadosh Baruch Hu”.He does NOT write that he should wage a war against the Arabs to take the land.
He writes to daven. Not to fight. He writes ask Hashem to intervene. He does not write that man should take the matter into his own physical hands.
Thank you for sharing this important point.
@hakatan
I would suggest the non-jewish population that leaves there could and perhaps should rule the area.
before the zionists, the arabs were well regarded by jews as good, respectable caretakers of the land in our gulis.Lol.
Katan suggests that a non defined ‘esav’ will take care of the land , or
much more important,– the many millions of innocent women, men and children therein , while
somejew prefers the local arabs who are supposedly ‘well regarded as good, respectable caretakers of the land’ …
I am not sure whether to laugh or to cry , when reading such clear delusional propositions.
Anyone with even only rudimentary knowledge of current events and recent history
understands the massive bloody repercussions [H yishmerenu] from such irresponsible approaches
there is no ‘havtuche’ anywhere in the torah that when hefker decisions are taken in regard to pikuach nefesh
that nothing would happen to the endangered people.
this is a clear halacha she’ela .
not a hashkafa she’ela
and there is a clear halacha response , in sh’a YD 157
that pikuch nefesh is docheh any issur [besides the cardinal three] including the sfek sfek sfek sfek sfeika of the oaths’ issur
which clearly is the ONLY driver of those totally delusional propositions of somejew and katan .
.
clearer than midday sun , that , when somejew and katan would be free from
their imprisonment in the confines of the mental jail of the mistaken elevation of the oaths as one of the ikarei emuna,
they , in their wildest dreams would not even think of advocating for such dangerous ideas.
.
yankel> non defined ‘esav’ will take care of the land , o
nothing to be lolling about. This was a pretty reasonable position to take in 1900 – before WW1 and even in 1920s. At the time, various shades of communism were the biggest danger against the legit western governments, and some versions of zionism were a part of that in addition to being anti-religious. Arab countries were least affected by that. So, no wonder, so many people were involved in battles against those movements.
It is now, from the knowledge of WW2 events and history after, we see that the proposed path would not be feasible. Katan’s only fault is that he reads thoughts of 100 years ago without considering the events we know now. But, you see, as we asked them for what solution they are thinking about, they at least exposed what their plan was, and we can now judge the feasibility of those plans or lack thereof.
yankel berel:
The only delusion I see in this discussion is Zionism.
The Satmar Rav wrote decades ago that if the Zionists actually cared about Jewish lives then they would go to the nations to work out a way to peacefully end their nightmare idol “State”.
It is delusional to claim as you do that the only possibility is the Zionist cataclysmic disaster. In every normal country in the world (obviously unlike the Zionists paradise), people choose to live in whichever country they expect to be treated well. It is, again, delusional to claim that the Zionist idol “State” is an exception to that rule, and that you think you can just invent that there is no way that any part of “eisav” could rule it peacefully and successfully to the benefit of the Jews (and, liHavdil, others) there.More importantly, it is obviously not a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika if the Zionists are violating the oaths0 That’s silly. The Zionists are, of course, flagrantly violating them as they always have, according to all opinions.
Even more importantly, no, it is not only because of the oaths that Hashem will stop the Zionist disaster at some point. Exactly because of your concern, of pikuach nefesh – that is perhaps the main reason why Hashem will end the Zionist disaster. The Zionists, as you noted, have inflamed the world, not just the entire Middle East as in the past, with their frontal attack on G-d in changing Judaism to Zionism and creating a “State” against His will and also against the will of the Jews there and, on top of that, promulgating and propagandizing their Big Lie that their “State” is Jewish and that they represent Jews, both of which are offensively and absurdly false.
It is clear that tif’eret shlomo ‘s writing quoted by square root , has no connection whatsoever to
the present situation and
its extremely weighty pikuch nefesh conundrums, to be decided by the wisest of our sages.
..
@hakatan
I always appreciate your beautiful writing and the clarity your comment provide.“The only delusion I see in this discussion is Z … if the Z actually cared about Jewish lives …. [katan]
—
that’s exactly your problem . you cannot see anything beyond the rish’ut of the z .that blinds you to all reality and warps your mind to consider the present world with a century old perspective,
time to wake up, mr katan, we are now in 2025 … and have to respond to the reality in 2025 ….
..
it is obviously not a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika if the Zionists are violating the oaths. That’s silly. [katan]
—
you are misinterpreting what I said .All I am dealing with ,is not the tsidkut or otherwise of the z.
We have to deal in a cold logical halachik way without emotions ,
about the continued EXISTENCE of the state ,
not about the z campaign under the british ,
not the establishment of the state ,
not about the wars that followed.
not about what the z could or should have done,
they are all history , and irrelevant
the question of the continued EXISTENCE of the state is intertwined with the pikuach nefesh of millions
and therefore extremely weighty
this question of the continued EXISTENCE of the state vs the pikuach nefesh concerns ,
is to be solved on the basis of PRESENT REALITY in 2025.
sidestepping this reality , automatically disqualifies you from any halachic logical input to deal with this problem
that would be the same as purposely ignoring the workings of a fridge and
then in the same breath claiming that you know whether its use is permitted on shabat.
—
Since the discussion is not about ‘history’ , rather about reality.meaning the EXISTENCE of the state ,
it definitely is a sfek-sfek-sfek…sfeika
whether said EXISTENCE contravenes the oaths
.
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