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With a minyan of only 10 men, all 9 must respond to every Amen, otherwise it is a bracha l’vatala by the shliach tzibbur.
Not quite, but it’s a nice thing to say to get everyone to answer.
lav-davka
The Mishna Berura brings from the Shulchan Shlomo an eitza that the shliach tzibbur should make a tnai that if the tzibbur does not answer chazaras hashatz should just be a nedava
YD: Once again, not quite true. In fact, a sleeping person can count as one of the 10 for a Minyan. You should have 9 (10 actually) answering at all times but sometimes this just doesn’t work. And the Lashon of the Poskim is “Karov Livachos Levatalos”, not quite actually Brachos Levatalos.
also bshaas hadchak if one person is in middle of amidah we are still metzref him to begin chazaras hashatz. And some poskim say you can include a sleeping person in that room for a tenth listener.
The real question is, in a minyan of only ten and there is a kohen who cannot duchen and regularly he will be required to wallk out, does he walk out over here?
So what’s the bottom line? 9 sleepers and one Sha”tz is a kosher minyan?
And if it is less than 9 answering, is it still considered to be a minyan?
No you definitely need 6 people answering for it to be chazaras hashatz
a sleeping person? What is your source?
I believe it’s a T’shuvah in the Tzitz Eliezer quoting I believe a Pri Megadim.
(I know the Tzitz Eliezer mentions it. I do not recall if his Maskanah is that he holds like it. Either he didn’t or I read the T’shuvah and was upset by the fact that he didn’t because the M”B calls it Korov Lebrachos Levatalos. But there are definite legitimate sources for it.)
If the above shittas is correct that you don’t need all 9 answering, then why do you need 6 davening with the minyan + 4 not davening but answering with the minyan? You should be able to have a minyan of only 6 people.
Shein: A Minyan is 10 people. Period. Then comes the issue of what those 10 have to be doing precisely towards the Minyan. But if there are not 10 people physically there then you don’t have anything to start the conversation with.
That’s my point, Sam. I’m asking exactly that – then why the other way I compared it to is okay.
Can a mute person (not a deaf mute) be included in a minyan
Coffee addict: Yes.
The whole Sugya is complicated and has several different very technical opinions. For most things we seem to hold that 6 people actually doing whatever we need a Minyan for is necessary for a Minyan. For others (Kriyas Hatorah on Simchas Torah is a very good example) we seem to hold you might only need 1.
And what happens if “nature” calls during the davening and one of the 10 needs to leave for a few minutes? Does the entire minyan take an intermission? This is one reason that I have often heard that the 11th person in the minyan is very important.
MG; Also the twelfth person if two ppl need to go.
during intestinal flu epidemics (yes health i know there is really no such thing as intestinal flu) you need 15-20 to be on the safe side.
Does the entire minyan take an intermission?
It depends when the tenth left. For example if he left during the repitition the chazzan continues with the repitition and the kaddish following it.
Sam2,
Do you have a mekor?
This could be the way to answer yd
i think the most bdi eved shitta is 6 people answering.
CA: No one says otherwise.
YD: I would assume we hold 6 by this also. It’s all the same issue, I think. It’s not a real Tefilla B’tzibbur (according to the M”B at least) unless there are 10 though.
i think the most bdi eved shitta is 6 people answering.
Which shittas say you need more than 6?
And are you talking about needing 6 ready to start to shtille S”E together or 6 ready to listen/respond to start the hoieche S”E?
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