February 25, 2019 10:05 am at 10:05 am #1684816
I posted this elsewhere, but it needs it’s own thread:
There are places that the Rabbonim took an active role and solved (or at least alleviated) a chinuch crisis by ordering: Closing all schools till ALL children have a place to learn.
That is a wonderful concept, to pressure ALL of us to find solutions for each individual.
Many feel, “ani, ess nafshi hitzalti” (I have saved my own soul and taken care of my own needs) – that is all that matters, but NO, that is not the Jewish approach, we must be “imo onochi b’tzaraa” (I am with you in your anguish), we ARE “shomer achi onochi” (guardians of our brothers) and have an achrayus (responsibility) to each other!
My question: Why is this concept not extended to the other crisis,like – the difficulty of finding shidduchim or aka “shidduch crisis”?
No one in the class can get married till EACH and EVERY girl of that class finds a shidduch! Yes, some engagements will be lengthened, engaged couples will need to wait to get married, but it creates a COMMUNAL pressure that until each girl in that class gets engaged, no Rov will be m’sader kiddushin!
You want to go to the chuppah, then instead of spending energy on the wedding gown and type of flowers – spend time with your chosson to get each of your classmates engaged!
Of course, this would need cooperation on a global level (it isn’t containable to one city) and there might be special exceptions made (when a Bais Din decides that weddings can go ahead e.g. a parent is terminally ill r”l and wedding cannot be delayed or a particular single is “in Bais Din’s opinion” sabotaging her own shidduchim prospects – a Bais Din will be needed to decide such issues of “nefoshos”).
We are an “Am novon v’chochom” (a smart nation) and the CR has the brightest of Our People contributing, so we could work out the fine tuning and implement this beautiful idea that WORKS for schooling to solve (or at least alleviate) the shidduch crisis!
I am not hacking or trolling but saying divrei emes v’sholom.
We CAN do this!!!
Step one: The idea should be raised at this year’s Agudah Convention.
Step two: The great man with a giant of a heart that is spending tons of money to help the shidduch crisis (and mossdos and so much he does for the klal) should throw his “weight” behind this, with his extensive contacts of Rabbonim, Roshei Yeshivos etc
Step three: It starts with one city and spreads (tofasta meruba lo tofasta)
Since maasei breishis Hakodosh Boruch Hu is soccupied making shidduchim – let us partner with Him and as partners we will see brocha in our finances, health, children etc.
This year we have 60 days of Adar Let us bring simcha to those in anguish over shidduchim by being with them, brother/sister – imo onochi b’tzara, I can’t make a simcha and “go on with my life” till you are ready to make a simcha!February 25, 2019 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1684946bk613Participant
😂😂😂😂😂February 25, 2019 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1684947jdbParticipant
Yes, people should very much try to set up their friends and neighbors. We did this by our wedding, and made a concerted effort with some success.
Holding back one person’s simcha to enable another person’s simcha is not how it’s done. This should be zah neheneh vzeh lo chasser.February 25, 2019 11:37 am at 11:37 am #1684952Shopping613 🌠Participant
Some people were meant to find their bashert later…this just sounds..weird.February 25, 2019 11:38 am at 11:38 am #1684970midwesternerParticipant
If this is not totally a troll attempt, it has got to be the number 1 all time dumbest post masquerading as a well thought out one.February 25, 2019 11:55 am at 11:55 am #1684985WinnieThePoohParticipant
Not really sure if your non-troll disclaimer is not in the spirit of Adar, but just in case you really are seriously proposing this…
Finding the right person to get married is not the same as getting accepted to the right school. It’s a very individual process, which happens at different times for valid reason and you can’t make a deadline that everyone needs to be engaged 10 months after they finish seminary or else. It is not fair nor healthy to make an engaged couple wait years to get married. Nor would the pressure on those not married early be healthy- it might push them to make the wrong decisions so that their classmates don’t suffer. Some circles are makpid that younger siblings don’t skip over older ones, and then you have a whole line of siblings not married if the oldest doesn’t marry quickly. Implementing your idea would make such a scenario even more common- basically it would mean there are more singles, more Jewish homes not being build in a timely fashion, more children not being born. Tragedy of even bigger proportions. Imagine how the older single would feel to be a cause of all that?February 25, 2019 12:11 pm at 12:11 pm #1684999
He’s a troll.
A good one, because he got people to respond, but a troll.February 25, 2019 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #1685058YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
He?February 25, 2019 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1685080
This idea is absolutely ridiculous. So is not letting kids go to school until all kids find a school. There could be literally hundreds of kids without school just because of one kid? and fifty girls in a grade in school cant get married because one girl cant find the right guy? so ridiculous.
I want to offer a perspective that everyone might not agree with: not everyone can get married at 20. Some people will get married at 30. Some at 40. I just had an uncle get married at 50. Some people may never get married. And that’s okay. If you want to get married then try to get married. If Hashem wants it to happen it will happen. if not then not. You dont need a spouse to be a righteous person. You don’t necesarily need anyone other than yourself to complete your tafkid in life. I dont think there is a shiduch crisis. I think the current situation was meant to be. I think we need to do lots of hishtadlus in making shiduchim. but some people may get married late or never. thats just how it is. and if you get married early mazal tov thats great. (though that can come with some cons of its own, so not always better, depends on the person).February 25, 2019 3:09 pm at 3:09 pm #1685081
Mod 29: If you can get a drivers’s license in New York beginning next year by checking a third gender box (“X” or uncommitted) it is only right that a trolling rebitzen should be accorded the same gender anonymityFebruary 25, 2019 3:22 pm at 3:22 pm #1685096interjectionParticipant
Is that you, Alexandria?
This idea is so next-level dumb that it has to be adar humor.February 25, 2019 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #1685128YW Moderator-29 👨💻Moderator
Mod 29: If you can get a drivers’s license in New York beginning next year by checking a third gender box (“X” or uncommitted) it is only right that a trolling rebitzen should be accorded the same gender anonymity
yes ma’am!February 25, 2019 7:08 pm at 7:08 pm #1685163
Discover, the line some people may never get married-and thats ok, is completely insensitive.
You should take it backFebruary 25, 2019 8:10 pm at 8:10 pm #1685175
Lucy, it is very insensitive of you to insinuate that there’s something wrong with not being married.February 25, 2019 9:03 pm at 9:03 pm #1685192
RY23-if youre serious about that, i can clarify
why that isFebruary 25, 2019 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1685195
There’s something very very wrong with making a choice to not get married, under general circumstances.February 25, 2019 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1685196
Beis Din has the right to force people to get married. This is a bfeirush Halacha.February 25, 2019 9:26 pm at 9:26 pm #1685197
He.February 25, 2019 11:11 pm at 11:11 pm #1685222HaimyParticipant
It’s a terrible thing that some people are unemployed. Let’s make a communal takana that no one can go to work until everyone finds a job. The job must earn at least $20 per hour.
Happy Trolling.February 26, 2019 12:21 am at 12:21 am #1685262writerParticipant
Haimy with omaria Cortez or AOC whatever her name is you can also be unwilling to work and receive government assistance under the green new deal. I think that proposal was also a Purim shpiel. At least I hope it was.February 26, 2019 12:22 am at 12:22 am #1685257
“Beis Din has the right to force people to get married. This is a bfeirush Halacha…”
Yussela…..do I have a girl for you….and if you have any reservations, we can get a psak from the Beis Din ordering you to make a chassanah but leaving to your discretion who will be mesader kiddushin..February 26, 2019 1:04 am at 1:04 am #1685316rationalParticipant
I have a better idea. No healed hospitalized person should be discharged from the hospital until ALL hospital patients are cured.February 26, 2019 8:02 am at 8:02 am #1685326
No person should eat breakfast until ALL the animals in the house have food.February 26, 2019 9:51 am at 9:51 am #1685393
I meant no harm by my statement and I do not take it back. God decides if a person gets married. We do hishtadlus. If a person does not get married then that is what shamayim wants. Just like illness. We do as much hishtadlus as we can to heal a person. but if it doesn’t work after all we’ve tried then it is min hashamayim that it is supposed to be that way. It is sad and certainly not easy. But it’s true.February 26, 2019 9:51 am at 9:51 am #1685397
And I am well aware that a Beis Din can force a person to get married, its in shulchan aruch, but that doesn’t mean that person can find a suitable partner.
Also, if a person isn’t married it does not mean anything is wrong with them. and if they aren’t emotionally capable of handling a relationship yet then perhaps they need time. I know people that are lucky if they are able to get out of bed in the morning (I know that might be an extreme example, but it is true), they certainly are not able to think about raising a family, regardless of how old they might be. There are many cheshbonos why a person might choose to delay getting married. They are not evil for doing so.February 26, 2019 11:24 am at 11:24 am #1685498
You have a right to disagree. You can even think the idea is ridiculous. But no need for name calling which is childish. Logical points can be debated but disagreeing with someone’s idea does not make the other a troll.
For those that live on another planet let me inform you:
In Lakewood and to some extent in other places, the Rabbonim came out with a ruling that until EACH child is placed in a school, no school can open. Some think that is ridiculous, but it helped the spilling of innocent blood of children that were left out of schools.
Someone said, well, if so, let’s not let the sick out of hospitals until all the sick are healed – I am sure you can come up with a nafka mina and if not, “host a kasha”. Someone said, some people need to get married late in life – good point…in my original suggestion I already opened the door for exceptions, but such modifications does not “kill” the idea..
Maybe the suggestion needs modification or toned down (like each chosson and kallah have a chiyuv to help make at least one other shidduch in order to be zocheh to have a Rov be mesader kiddushin for them…), but the point is, to be “eimo onochi b’tzara” – that every chosson and kallah cannot sit in blissful joy on cloud nine while knowing that their classmates are b’tzara. WHile spending hundreds of hours planning the menus and music for the wedding, spend a feww hours making a shidduch as a ho’doah (- call it a Korbon Todah).
Is that ridiculous?! Is arvus (kol yisroel areivim zeh la’zeh) silly?! Is ahavas yisroel only theoretical but totally impractical?!
“Im kesef talveh ess ha’oni imach” (P’ Mishpotim) “the poor among you” – Rashi: “hevei mistakel b’atzmecha k’ilu ata oni” (when dealing with poor, view yourself as if you were poor and treat the other accordingly). Is that the words of a troll c”v? The chosson kallah are “rich” in simcha, let them loan time and energy to help their fellow “poor” that lack in the simcha that they are enjoying!
Yes, we live in a self-centered world, where the Anochi is not Hashem but ourselves. Ani ess nafshi hitzalti – I took care of myself THAT is TROLL THINKING.
“Hashomer achi anochi” (am I my bother’s keeper) were the words of a rotayach (murdered)! Indeed, shomer achi anochi – I actually AM my brother”s keeper and have an achrayus for him and her.
Chessed doesn’t start and end with making oneself feel good (I, the great anochi, helped someone – I feel so good). Chessed is when it is hard and even hurts, when it is inconvenient and even if it delays my own simcha…that is the true “anochi”, to cleave to the ways of Hashem.
The mehalech of “no one till everyone” was implemented by great rabbonim (who took a leadership stand – rather then hide behind their seforim) and it alleviated to a great extent the problem with schooling in Lakewood and other places. IT WORKERD! (I am sure there were and still are many nay sayers screaming that it is ridicuylous, unfair, trolls…but you can’t argue with success).
All I am saying, (and for suggesting it you can call me a troll ior ridiculous f you wish – I am mochel), why not implement such a takana in shidduchim?!
Yes, it is radical, yes it is unprecedented, yes it makes me and you uncomfortable – but that is chessed – doing for someone else.February 26, 2019 11:35 am at 11:35 am #1685513
TrollFebruary 26, 2019 11:43 am at 11:43 am #1685517
Rebbitzen, since I do not like to see a troll go hungry (unless he annoys me personally), I will bring up another point. Preventing people from getting married properly once they have already found someone to marry will tempt them to seek an alternative. At best, they will find several other couples, get married independently of the community that tried to block them, and move to Alabama to found their own community.February 26, 2019 12:30 pm at 12:30 pm #1685538
Ah Reb Yid, you raise a good point, “Preventing people from getting married properly once they have already found someone to marry will tempt them to seek an alternative.” But are you aware that RIGHT NOW there are rabbonim that ALREADY prevent people from getting married? I will give a few examples of such demands placed by various rabbonom:: refusing to be mesader kiddushin until the chosson kalah learned hilchos tahara! Refusing to be messader kiddushin till there is a civil marriage license! etc. There ARE certain hoops that are placed before a chosson and kallah can attend their chuppah! (I won’t even mention non-rabbinical preventions like getting the sheitel, gown, availability of hall – not always available…) Do these preventions to get married cause the chosson and kallah to “seek alternatives”?? I don’t think so, but maybe I am wrong.February 26, 2019 1:06 pm at 1:06 pm #1685557
Rebbitzen….giving your provocative suggestion (aka troll) the benefit of the doubt, I’d just call it a misguided and uninformed proposal that is infeasible, indefensible and most likely contrary to daas torah and halacha. Rabbonim can assist in the shiduch process, a beis din can adjudicate commitments related to the initiation and termination of a marriage but in todays world (Joey nothwithstanding) a beis din cannot dictate who marries who much less restrict others from marrying the person of their choice.February 26, 2019 1:12 pm at 1:12 pm #1685583GAONParticipant
” I am sure you can come up with a nafka mina”
I am certain you can come up with MORE than ONE nafka minah why this has no shaychos to Schools accepting.
Shiduchim has been an ongoing issue since forever, and yes tekanos were implemented in every Kehillah, to the extent that tosfos in Kedushin 41a paskens as the following :
ועכשיו שאנו נוהגים לקדש בנותינו אפי’ קטנות היינו משום שבכל יום ויום הגלות מתגבר עלינו ואם יש סיפק ביד אדם עכשיו לתת לבתו נדוניא שמא לאחר זמן לא יהיה סיפק בידו ותשב בתו עגונה לעולם:
But this is just ridiculous…unless you are in that very parsha.February 26, 2019 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1685596
Rebbitzen, those are all things that are within the couple’s control.February 26, 2019 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #1685598
Rebbitzen: Yes, of course a Rav today can impose legitimate conditions on whether and when and where he will be mesader kiddushin for a couple , insist they show an understanding of certain areas of halacha and approve of the hashgacha at the simcha hall but he cannot tell them to delay their wedding until his daughter and a few of her unmarried friends much less all the single girls in the senior class a the local Beis Yaakov have found their beschert. I’m sure he could try to impose such a policy but he will be rightfully be ignored by the vast majority of frum yidden who will take their business elsewhere.February 26, 2019 2:56 pm at 2:56 pm #1685602
Hadorah has torn out that Halacha from the Shulchan Aruch.February 26, 2019 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1685638rationalParticipant
1984February 26, 2019 2:58 pm at 2:58 pm #1685614WinnieThePoohParticipant
Rebbitzen etc, the preventions you mention in your last post are all within their means to accomplish reasonably quickly. Getting everyone in their classes married is beyond their control. Chesed is to try to help others, whether that help will actually take away the tzara is sometimes beyond us. yes, the happily engaged couple can and perhaps should be encouraged to suggest a shidduch, but it doesn’t mean it will work out. We as a couple over the years have set up a few people, nothing came of any of them. I know another couple who have made several successful shidduchim. Our failure rate and our friends’ success rate has nothing to with degrees of selfishness or caring for others.
I think it is more the norm for newly engaged couples to want to share their joy than hide in their bubble. Many couples do try to set up their friends. Among my school friends, there was couple A who set up couple B who set up couple C, all the chossonim were friends from the same yeshiva. (Couple C tried to set me up with one more from that yeshiva, and I was sure by the natural order of things we would become couple D, but surprise, it was not matim…and I only got married many years later).
It took my HS class about 15 years until we were all married, and about 6 years for most to be married. I would not consider it a chessed for anyone to have waited that long-even the 6 years- it would have been more like a churban. It would not have helped anyway. Maybe it would have even discouraged some to date- why bother if they can’t get married until everyone else is? If we would implement your idea, then no one would be able to deny or question whether there was a shidduch crisis.February 26, 2019 3:03 pm at 3:03 pm #1685646
Joseph, admit that there is context that you are omitting.February 26, 2019 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #1685737
Discover, i understand your point. Perhaps this is hypersentsitive of me, but you stating that terrible things happen to people and thats “ok”, rubs me the wrong way.February 26, 2019 9:18 pm at 9:18 pm #1685761
RY23, I admit it. The context is that the person refuses to get married.
Sorry for omitting that point.February 26, 2019 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1685774
Lucy, you nailed it! When terrible things happen we don’t just do hishtaflus…we tear open the skies with tefolos and demand that Hashem fix the bad things. Look, we are all in golus, we do hishtadlus to bring Moshiach by doing zchusim, but then three times a day we beseech Hashem: Es Tzemach Dovid Avdecha BIMHAIRA tatzmiach., three times a day we do NOT simply accept that we are in a terrible golus, but demand that Hashem should QUICKLY change this situation.February 26, 2019 9:19 pm at 9:19 pm #1685791Amil ZolaParticipant
Rebbitzen etc (aka troll) even though the rabbis in Lkwd said that the schools wouldn’t open until all girls were place they still do. You are a rather inept troll, I suggest a new career path.February 26, 2019 9:20 pm at 9:20 pm #1685797DWKL1Participant
dont know who you are, but your idea is at best ludicrous .
of course we must all do what ever we can to try and help everyone find their bashert , but for the whole class to put their life on hold until each girl in the class is engaged is off the charts ,wild, silly
perhaps you should spend your time writing story books as your imagination is working overtimeFebruary 26, 2019 9:25 pm at 9:25 pm #1685822
Rebbitzen etc (aka troll) even though the rabbis in Lkwd said that the schools wouldn’t open until all girls were place they still do.
They do delay opening, and most girls do get placed. Maybe some are in such a bad situation in ruchniyus that nobody can accept them, nebach.
You are a rather inept troll, I suggest a new career path.
43 posts and counting. Not inept at all.February 26, 2019 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1685830
Rebbetzin, how about no baby is allowed to take his first step until every baby in the world has learned how to crawl?February 26, 2019 9:48 pm at 9:48 pm #1685829
Joseph, marriage kind of requires two people.February 26, 2019 10:13 pm at 10:13 pm #1685840
Joseph: Yup, that and others that you frequently misrepresent, distort out of context or otherwise fabricate. But don’t let that get in the way of your otherwise entertaining flow of new “provocative” postings.February 27, 2019 12:14 am at 12:14 am #1685904J92Participant
Guys I figured out the rebbetzin is joking when (s)he wrote “the chosson and kallah should make at least one shidduch so they could be ‘zocheh’ to a mesader kiddushin” 🤣🤣🤣🤣.
Guys, this guy is making a joke relax.:)February 27, 2019 12:17 am at 12:17 am #1685895
RY23, the way the Halacha works is if, say, Chaim decides marriage is not for him, Beis Din then goes and finds a girl who is willing to marry him. So they speak to Shaindel and she tells them that she’s game to marring Chaim. Beis Din goes back to Chaim and say, “Reb Chaim next month you’ll be marrying Shaindel. Be ready cause you have no choice.”
A month later they marry the lucky couple.February 27, 2019 12:38 am at 12:38 am #1685921
It is rare that they would find someone willing.February 27, 2019 7:21 am at 7:21 am #1685961
RY23, think shidduch crisis. i.e. numerous girls unable to marry due to shortage of guys. Just like we have now. Now think of selfish boys who don’t want to marry. Then think of desperate girls who do want to marry. Now think Halacha. Then think Beis Din.
Viola; you’ve got a shidduch!
Hey, Hashem made this Halacha for a reason. And it wasn’t just theoretical.
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