Am I shallow?

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  • #593711
    iyhbyu
    Member

    I’ve read some previous posts on here about how horrible it is that some girls get overlooked because of their weight, berating boys for paying attention to such things.

    Well, here I am. I recently went out with a girl. I enjoyed myself and we got along well. However, she was a bit on the heavier side.

    I grew up with my older sisters talking about what a shame it is that their heavier friends were still single and I thought it was horrible. I never ask about looks because I think it’s all subjective. But when it came down to it, I just couldn’t find her attractive. I tried. I felt terrible about it, feeling like the biggest jerk in the world. I always thought I would never say no to a girl for weight. I wish I did find heavy girls attractive. But the fact is that I don’t. It wasn’t like she was unattractive in addition to the weight. It was just the weight.

    Now I think boys who ask for a certain skirt size are ridiculous because height plays a big factor obviously, but if a boy rejects a girl based on weight, are they a bad person?

    #727157
    cofeefan
    Member

    as a girl who is not a size 2,4, 6, 8 or even 10 i am happy for the girl that u said no to. i don’t mean this in a negative way at all i am sure ur a terrific person and iyh the right one should come quickly… but come on… u said no because of her size?!?!?! imagine how she must feel and i could imagine it’s not good…. i’m happy for her because she probably feels bad about herself as it is and imagine how she would feel having to live up to society’s view of beauty not to mention yours! and no that does not make u shallow it makes you silly i’m sorry

    #727158
    Be Happy
    Participant

    I don’t think you are a bad person. If you are rejecting a girl for being slightly heavy think again. Remember also that iy”H your wife may gain weight (other than pregnancy) will you reject her then?

    #727159
    candy613
    Member

    Come on – he didn’t say he rejected her because of her weight, he said he didn’t find her attractive. That may have been because of her weight but he is entitled to want to be attracted. And I say that as someone who is overweight, as were my parents (we call it ‘fluffy’, not fat)

    (posted by candy’s mom – she walked away from the computer and I hijacked her login)

    #727160
    frumladygit
    Member

    Personally I don’t feel you are shallow or did anything wrong in what you felt. These feelings are there, albeit in the disguise of a “turned-off-ness to something about her” to guide you in finding your bashert.

    When you find the right one there will be absolutely no physical defect, or spiritual peckle, (small or large) that could possibly stand in your way of wanting to marry this person.

    I am plump but its a fact that my husband finds it attractive on a woman.

    My personal taste is that there is no way, absolutely no way I would ever be attracted to a chubby man. The fact is, that normally with zivigum all the traits are divided between the couple. So sometimes, you have that one person has a problem that they like to overeat. So that person will tend to be heavy, while the other one doesn’t. For example, my husband is the opposite of me. He is well built and does weights. He needs a soft, chubby zivug. Get it?

    I believe that ppl who are overweight- it always goes together with an “issue”. So, perhaps you aren’t attracted to the neshama who has the “issue” they have which results in being overweight from eating. You will get a wife with other “issues”, that result in other meshugiusin she may have, which you will in turn be “blind” to as you “need” these in your life to work out for your soul correction.

    All of the above opinion/theory is only true if you are not one of these Bocherim who just wants a blonde barbie dolls to show off to your friends. My husband has good advice for these types`:

    Do everyone a favor and don`t get married…because

    What are you going to do when she is 45, over the hill, had a

    few babies and added a few lbs? She will not turn heads anymore at that point.So if you are really just into looks you need to correct that.

    #727162
    iyhbyu
    Member

    @coffeefan-

    First of all I didn’t mention that as my reason for saying no, and trust me I feel much worse than you do (whether or not you believe me is your decision). I don’t know what my saying no had to do with society’s standards or what you really mean by “standards” because I guess that all dating is whether or not we go by the other’s “standards.” I don’t need anyone to meet society’s standards just that I should find the other person attractive. I spent much time trying to convince myself that I could find her attractive but it didn’t work. A quick question-would it be any different if the girl was really skinny and the boy was attracted to larger woman? would you say the same thing? I’m having a hard time understanding why you think that I’m silly, do you think it isn’t important that spouses be attracted to each other?

    @behappy

    I see where you are coming from a bit more, but what about any situation which is a make or break for people, would you say that people shouldn’t care if the girl/boy has a disease chas v’shalom? couldn’t you say the same thing that would you leave your wife if she developed something? of course not! but men placht un gut tracht. If a girl isn’t skinny now she probably won’t ever be or care to lose weight if she does put it on. I make sure to exercise but if she ends up putting weight on after marriage, ok that’s what hashem has in mind for me.

    #727163
    cofeefan
    Member

    iyhbyu- ur right i’m sorry. i must not have understood ur original post, but when you put it that way u r rightand i am wrong for being harsh. i apologize and ask for forgiveness. i do wonder why you chose to write “It was just the weight.” it kinda sends mixed messages to me but u are right and like i said i apologize!

    but i also agree with the fact that most women do not stay the size they were when they got married. but i hear ur point and respect it.. to each his own right?!?

    i hope that things go really smoothly for you from now on and u should see mazel and brocha through ur life

    #727164
    dunno
    Member

    No, I don’t think you are shallow at all. You should marry someone you’re attracted to. You actually sound pretty nice that you care about it so much.

    #727165
    RuffRuff
    Member

    Not to hurt someone’s feeling is a great thing to keep in mind, but not as a reason to marry them. I never heard of any Tzaddik going to look for the biggest Shlepperes to give her a boost and marry her.

    There is a reason that Chazal mandated meeting the person before marrying. If you feel turned off by the looks, that is a valid enough reason not to pursue it. If you would be pushing the bar and expect or wish for who-knows-what, that would be a different story, but you, very clearly, said that it is not the case.

    #727167
    tzippi
    Member

    I’ve heard that if things went well but there’s a feature that’s off-putting (say a boy’s unibrow, some girls notice, nothing to be done) to keep going out. If the issue fades away, there might be potential. If it’s still an issue, that’s a siman to stop.

    #727168
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    You are not shallow at all. It is assur to marry someone you are not attracted to. It is completely normal to not be attracted to heavy people.

    You may be silly for thinking this is shallow, but silly is not such a fault.

    #727169

    if you dont like bigger girls, it’s not your fault. there are plenty of men who do….

    #727170
    not I
    Member

    Would it be better to marry a woman who is not attractive jsut to regret it later? i know of a couple who got married and she knew that her husband wasn’t all that attracted to her looks.. It wasn’t long before they were divorced! How is she supposed to feel? Don’t do it to her for her and for YOU!

    #727171
    pumper
    Member

    You have to keep an open mind and not make a blanket statement that all overweight girl are unattractive. Yes, it may be that you did not find any attraction to the girl that you dated, but in the future you may find another overweight girl who does attract you.

    Also, for obvious reasons, you failed to say how you define overweight. Many people in the frum community define overweight as a size 12. That is not overweight! That is called healthy/average! If your date was severely overweight, then I don’t think that anyone can blame you.

    And, like others have mentioned, you may marry a small girl now, but after girls have babies, their figure changes. Your previously size 8 wife may now be a size 14, just 10 short months after you married her.

    #727172
    Pashuteh Yid
    Member

    Ruffruff, not to mean any disrespect at all, but I thought that the animal world has a totally different system for finding their zivug. I mean they don’t use shadchanim or anything like that.

    #727173
    1dayatime
    Participant

    iyhbyu

    I feel you all the way. I also think there’s something wrong with me everytime I don’t find a wonderful girl attractive. But then I remind myself that when the RSH”O decides it’s time for me to get married then nothing will stand in my way.

    #727174

    iyhbyu- I like your username.

    However, what you may want to keep in mind for the future is that attraction is a very relative term. When you love someone you are very attracted to them. Not only do the little stuff that may have bothered you go away, they become endearing qualities.

    Hatzlocha rabbah- and IY”H BY YOU real soon!

    #727175
    RuffRuff
    Member

    Do you know any Chareidy animals? Y’know, things change.

    #727176
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I don’t know why people who think you should be willing to marry an overweight girl, think it is helpful to point out that she will gain weight after she has kids anyway.

    If anything, that is a reason to only want a very thin girl, who will still be normal after having kids.

    In any event, humans, like animals, are attracted to health. Being thin is healthy, and we are attracted to it. (That is my pshat.)

    #727178
    Gabboim
    Member

    popa_bar_abba:

    It is a fair question to ask, to those who promote the “importance” of weight and looks before marriage, if after a few kids if the weight and looks are no longer optimal, if the wife no longer looks or weighs what the husband demanded for shidduchim, if he will be giving her an ultimatum of fix your nature — lose enough weight (and regain your look if applicable) or we will be meeting in divorce court.

    #727179

    popa based on your first reply that it’s assur to marry a lady whom you’re not attracted to I take it that you’re a posek, so I just want to clarify a few shailos I had

    1)Is it better for bochrim to wear jeans or go on the internet?

    2)If there is no counter for me to slam the change onto while I am working as a cashier, what should I do?

    3)Is wearing a red velvet yarmulke untznius?

    4)Can a brother hug his sister? Can he speak to her?

    #727180
    iyhbyu
    Member

    @coffeefan-

    Thank you and no hard feelings. I chose to write it was just the weight because I think if she was thinner I would have found her attractive enough. That was really the deciding factor. Also as I said before, people don’t stay exactly the same after you marry them but you can only do so much and if that is what Hashem has in mind for you, than ok that is one of my nisyonos.

    @1dayatime and @ raised eyebrows-

    Thanks for your advice, that is really what I was looking for.

    and amen to all your brochos and you too if you are in need.

    #727182
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    It is a fair question. I think girls should ask that to their dates.

    I also think guys can ask their dates if they intend to make a good faith effort to maintain their appearance.

    #727183
    pumper
    Member

    I hope that most men who get married learn to look beyond the external, and love their wife for who she is and not how she looks. If a woman gains a few pounds she shouldn’t have to worry that her husband will no longer love her.

    #727184
    cofeefan
    Member

    well said pumper….

    iyhbyu- Out of pure curiosity…. Did you tell the shadchan that you were saying no because of attraction? Or lack there of I should say…lol

    #727185
    so right
    Member

    popa, what if the change in metabolism after a child or two or three no longer allows her to maintain something close to her ideal weight or looks? What recourse will the now stuck husband have?

    If the husband can now live with it happily, there is no reason to suspect the bocher dating can live happily with a less than fantasized weight or even looks.

    #727186
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    so right:

    That is a problem, and it is probably not the most serious problem the couple will need to deal with in the course of their marriage.

    I think it is a very appropriate question for a dating couple to discuss.

    #727187
    pumper
    Member

    There is absolutely no way to predict what changes a woman may experience due to pregnancy and childbirth.

    I think that most husbands are mature and realize this. At some point during a marriage (and I hope it is sooner rather than later) the focus on the external is secondary, and the relationship is one that transcends the external and is more internal.

    #727188
    adorable
    Participant

    do men really think their wives are not attracive at a certain point because they think their wives changed and they don’t like them anymore? wow what a world we live in!~

    #727189
    so right
    Member

    popa: If it can be dealt with in marriage (and in fact he better be prepared to deal with it), then a bochur can deal with it with a bride-to-be – as much as a husband can deal with it with a wife.

    And what if a bochor is 29 or 32 or 35 and cannot get is fantasized bride? Can he lower his expectations on looks and weight? If so, so can a 19 or 21 or 23 year old bochor. Especially since all of them better be prepared for unavoidable changes after marriage.

    And what about old age? Will the husband to be divorce her when she hits 40 or 50 or 60? She ain’t gonna have those looks anymore. He can deal with it then? So the bochor better be prepared. And if he can deal with it then, he can deal with it now.

    #727190
    mw13
    Participant

    “If a woman gains a few pounds she shouldn’t have to worry that her husband will no longer love her.”

    And she shouldn’t. Just because a certain factor may stop a relationship from forming does not mean that it will break an already existing relationship.

    #727191
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    so right:

    Are we disagreeing?

    #727192
    so right
    Member

    Just because a certain factor may stop a relationship from forming does not mean that it will break an already existing relationship.

    If a relationship can withstand it, there is no reason to let it prevent a relationship from forming because it exists.

    #727193
    dunno
    Member

    so right

    Why should he? Once you’re in a marriage already very few things are worthy enough to break it apart. Before marriage, however, why shouldn’t someone strive to get everything they’re looking for?

    #727194
    so right
    Member

    Before marriage, however, why shouldn’t someone strive to get everything they’re looking for?

    Some people do. They insist on a blue eyed, blonde haired, size 0, tall, witch.

    #727195
    dunno
    Member

    so right

    No. Most people I know are not looking for a witch. Why does it bother you if someone strives for a “blue eyed, blonde haired, tall, size 0 girl”? If that’s what they want and can get, good for them!

    #727196
    cshapiro
    Member

    from a girls perspective guys are so luck that girls arent so superficial and give guys a second chance, cause u know what sometimes a look just grows on you and you find them attractive after the third or fourth date….

    #727197
    dunno
    Member

    cshapiro

    How is that different for guys? The same happens with them.

    #727198
    so right
    Member

    Why does it bother you if someone strives for a “blue eyed, blonde haired, tall, size 0 girl”? If that’s what they want and can get, good for them!

    How will he react when his then wife is no longer size 0? Or when her hair is no longer blonde? Or when she is hunched over? Will he no longer want her?

    #727199
    cshapiro
    Member

    dunno….guys think they are hot stuff and feel they can be selective. idc im selective too but i dont think its fair that the balding ugly fat guy can demand a gorgeous girl, or am i wrong?

    #727200
    dunno
    Member

    so right

    Obviously not. He can get everything he wants and then live with what he’s got. Just because a girl won’t stay a size 0 that doesn’t mean an automatic divorce. However, if that’s what he wants and can get while dating, kol hakavod.

    #727201
    so right
    Member

    dunno:

    If he can live with it later, he can live with it now.

    And if he can’t live with it now, his potential bride-to-be better start worrying if he will be able to live with it later.

    #727202
    iyhbyu
    Member

    @coffee fan-

    I actually went out a second time to see if I would change my mind or if it was something she was wearing, and I was kind of looking for a hashkafik difference so I could say that as the reason. I did find a big difference of opinions so I cited that as my reason for the no.

    @so right-

    so anything that is “livable” a person should be willing to marry? Why don’t we have 22 year olds marry 40 year olds according to your reasoning? they won’t divorce them when they’re 40? or what about a terminal disease chas v’shalom, as I’ve mentioned? should it matter if a boy has a job? why? will you divorce him if he’s fired? what about a handicap?

    @cshapiro-

    I definitely hear that but I can only speak for myself and I make an effort to stay in shape and exercise.

    #727203
    World Saver
    Participant

    Why in the world are you feeling guilty that you are not attracted to someone? You should only marry someone that appeals to you. And it is not your obligation to “make her” appeal to you. This is not a healthy sign. It may be good for you to go to therapy.

    #727204
    iyhbyu
    Member

    @world saver-

    whoa! ok calm down now. Usually when you quote someone, it’s because they said it.

    #727205
    deiyezooger
    Member

    let me just say something, yes i agree with iyhbyu yes i do feel very bad for the girl you dated but you have all the right to be choosy, b/c its your life/future wife and usually the heavy girls that start heavy only get heavier, and the skinny girls that got heavy after their wedding try at least to loose it they dont want to be heavy. but good luck in whatever you do i wish you find you right zivug.(and i hope its not meant to be a heavy one)

    #727206

    usually the heavy girls that start heavy only get heavier, and the skinny girls that got heavy after their wedding try at least to loose it they dont want to be heavy.”

    Where do such bubbe maaisa’s come from?

    #727207
    deiyezooger
    Member

    Where do such bubbe maaisa’s come from?

    a true and tried source! no offense on anybody maybe you are diff. its just fact of life.

    #727209

    “a true and tried source!”

    The boich?

    #727210
    pumper
    Member

    I’m not saying that a man will divorce his wife if she gains a few pounds. I doubt that anyone is THAT superficial. On the other hand, there is a possibility that the husband will put pressure on his wife to regain her figure, which is an unfair expectation to demand from a woman who just went through 9 months of pregnancy, childbirth and months of nursing.

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