Anti-Face Mask YWNCR

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  • #1954434
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I have observed multiple respected rabbonim not wearing masks in shul. There are frequently a few people wearing masks, and I doubt the rav has a problem with it. I would be shocked if he did.

    Kids are getting destroyed by staying home from school. You can wear two masks or more if you want, I don’t care, but please do not keep your kids home from school, I beg of you.

    #1954487
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    @madealiyah Why are you looking at this as a binary outcome? That either we never wear masks or we always do?

    For the upteenth time:

    Before Covid we had a right (or no chiyuv) to keep our faces and glasses clear.
    Then Covid came and some people have decided that we don’t have said right.
    Why? Because if people are dying, logic dictates that our rights can be overridden.
    ‘Really?’ we asked, ‘at what point does this phenomenon called death, that has been part of our lives since Adam ate from the Tree, infringe upon our rights?’.
    ‘You seem to want me to provide you with a number that I don’t know, so fine I’ll make something up. ‘ answered @Yserbius123 helpfully, ‘When US COVID deaths go down 90% from their peak and stay that for one month we can stop wearing masks.‘
    You don’t know? This stuff is just made up? Do we lose our freedom whenever it feels right to certain unnamed people, without them providing a logical baseline?‘.

    There. I have maxed out my explaining skills. If this is not enough, I may just give up.

    Furthermore, you keep stating that your main problem with wearing a mask is that it is uncomfortable. Like I keep repeating, that’s simply not a good enough reason. There are many things that are uncomfortable but we do anyway.

    That is my problem, but not my reason.

    I only continue to mention comfort, because you keep claiming that it’s not uncomfortable.
    My reason is the ‘all-or-nothing’ or ‘baseline’ question, which I have repeated about four times.
    But if this comfort business is confusing, then let’s drop it.
    But the question still stands.

    #1954593

    DY, so if your respected Rabonim do not object to people wearing masks, what stops people from wearing them.

    I am sure there are some kids that need to be in school. At the same time, there are a lot who could benefit from being more with their parents. As a thought experiment – is there ONE class you’d like to learn together with your kids? Humash? Alef Beis? Science? Math? Gym?

    Most of my kids switched to online schools pre-Corona. They are both at school and at home. They, as I, rarely wear masks.

    There is a difference between online schools and regular schools trying to do online and hybrid. The former saw no changes except longer enrollment lines. The latter, yes, struggle sometimes despite best efforts, although CTLawyer seem to report that his family is doing fine, reporting progress, relative to in-person, similar to ours. The main mistake schools made when trying to be online is frantic attempts to replicate in-person experience with everyone hanging over magic zoom. the right way is to give students well-prepared work, with online tests, and teachers focusing on lectures and follow up with students.

    I think the most frustrating thing for parents to see is when kids do not study or misbehave, but you need to realize that things were not better at school, it was simply out of your sight. Frankly, if you think, you have to be a very bad parent to match influence of tens of wild kids that your children are encountering daily.

    #1954594

    maedaliyah> That either we never wear masks or we always do?

    I agree. I would start with – whenever governor of your state mandates it, and when other people expect you to do it, such as in the stores, offices. It is also not an only choice. “wearing mask” became a short-hand for this madness. There are lots of other decisions you can make. for example, not too fly for a vacation on Spirit this year, limit other optional things and find appropriate, or even better, substitutes, such as learning Torah, gaining a profession, spending more time with yor spouse and kids. I would presume that, for example, Vilna Gaon, would not need to wear mask much, as he rarely ventured out of his house.

    #1954605
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @daas-yochid Chas v’Shalom! I would never insinuate that any Rov is incompetent (unless I’ve heard it from a different Rov whom I trust). Please stop putting words in my mouth. What I am saying is that the reasoning that I’ve heard from the Rabbonim and other authorities about allowing unmasked crowds is, well, lacking.

    Mid 2020 there was no end of letters in frum magazines and papers from doctors and organizations begging people to listen to the guidelines, and the response was non-existent. It’s not even a question of knowing the guidelines, it’s that the seem to know the guidelines but then ignore them. The best reasoning usually boils down to what you said about forcing people to do something they find uncomfortable. But that’s something that is a major part of a Rav’s responsibility, so it’s disturbing that they draw the line here. Also, it makes no sense since there are plenty of communities that are more than happy to mask up full time in shuls, schools, stores, and simchas.

    All this leads me to one conclusion: The Rabbonim (at least those who pasken that masks are optional) don’t believe that there’s anything to be done about COVID. That masks, social distancing, testing, travel restrictions, etc. won’t prevent people from getting sick. This flies in the face of not only all conventional logic, but also what pretty much every expert on the topic is saying. So they Rabbonim aren’t trusting the experts. Why not? Perhaps because they are being fed faulty information. Maybe people are being told that the experts are far from certain (they aren’t). Maybe they think that it’s still a matter up for debate (it isn’t). Maybe they just think that all the experts are anti-Semites seeking to destroy Yiddishkeit (including the Yeshivish ones?).

    Kids are getting destroyed by staying home from school

    Exactly. Unintentionally, you hit the nail on the head. That is why masking is important. Like I said many many times before. We can’t lockdown until COVID goes away. What we could do is try and follow the guidelines as much as possible so that we can still live mostly normal lives and not have a dangerous virus run unchecked in our communities. Out of all the guidelines, one of the least disruptive ones is to wear a mask. Do that (along with social distancing, etc.) and the COVID risk from school will be minimal enough that we don’t have to weigh one against another.

    Which begs another question. You are against wearing masks. Are you also against the more difficult things people have to do in these times? Are you against families quarantining for weeks if one member has COVID? Are you against small simchas? As you against preventing people from traveling? Are you against isolating and getting tested every time someone has a fever over 100?


    @madealiyah
    I’m still baffled by your reasoning. If everyone wears a mask (and social distances, etc) it can help prevent thousands of deaths. The negative effects minimal, at absolute worst. Why shouldn’t we wear masks? You keep mentioning “rights” but your definition is unclear. What “right” does an individual have to drive without a license? What “right” does someone have to fire off a gun in a public area? What “right” does a person have to not wear pants in public? You are ironically correct in one way. We do lose our freedoms. When said “freedom” can cause millions of deaths. So yes. COVID is causing thousands of deaths a day. If we take away people’s “right” and “freedom” to go to a store without a facial covering it can drop those numbers significantly.

    #1954609
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Yserbius, I think claiming all these rabbonim are being fed, and accepting, false information is basically calling them incompetent.

    I think it’s beyond naive to think they are unaware of CDC guidelines.

    I am not “against” wearing masks, I just think when you have a shul where 90% of the people have had Covid, and the other 10% are spread out, and the people who are still scared to come to shul have access to masked minyanim, there’s no chiyuv to wear a mask in shul. When there’s no chiyuv to do something, people generally don’t do it when it’s very annoying and uncomfortable and shters them.

    Anecdotally, it definitely does not seem that Covid has been spreading in the shuls I am aware of that do this.

    We have quarantined when a family member has Covid, with the exception of members who has tested positive for antibodies (after medical consultation).

    I think people who don’t have antibodies should not attend large simchos in the normal way.

    I am in favor of testing when there are symptoms.

    Any other questions?

    #1954627
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @daas-yochid

    I explicitly said that these Rabbonim (who have no problem with an unmasked indoors crowded minyan ) are aware of the CDC guidelines. They just choose to ignore them. And their reasoning for ignoring them is extremely disturbing. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for even extremely intelligent people to believe patently false information. Especially these days when it’s very difficult for someone unaccustomed to modern media to know what to believe.

    A shul where 90% of the people have had Covid, and the other 10% are spread out,

    OK, hold your horses over here, this is a big change of pace. At no point did you say that we are talking about cases where there’s herd immunity. Because that’s a whole nother ball game. I do know that many shuls have rules about when people can take their masks off, based on when they had COVID or a vaccine. I’m not thrilled with it, but I’m not against it either. Was that what you were talking about this whole time?

    My issue is most shuls do not have 90% infection rates. There was some thought that back in June of 2020 that COVID ran its course in frum communities and herd immunity was reached. That turned out to be wrong when Elul came and brought a horrific din v’cheshbon on many many people.

    Furthermore, you say “90% had COVID”, but when they had COVID is extremely important. Within the last 3 months, fine. Six months ago? Not great, but OK. Earlier? Most people who had COVID lose their antibodies after six months. So a shul where everyone had a fever in Av and decided to unmask now has to go back to acting as if no one is immune.

    #1954640
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    @madealiyah I’m still baffled by your reasoning. If everyone wears a mask (and social distances, etc) it can help prevent thousands of deaths. The negative effects minimal, at absolute worst. Why shouldn’t we wear masks? You keep mentioning “rights” but your definition is unclear. What “right” does an individual have to drive without a license? What “right” does someone have to fire off a gun in a public area? What “right” does a person have to not wear pants in public? You are ironically correct in one way. We do lose our freedoms. When said “freedom” can cause millions of deaths. So yes. COVID is causing thousands of deaths a day. If we take away people’s “right” and “freedom” to go to a store without a facial covering it can drop those numbers significantly.

    You are side-tracking again so let me return to the question:

    Can a person be forced to mask against his/her will in order to save lives?

    Your answer seems to be Yes, so here is the follow up:


    @yserbius123
    I’m still baffled by your reasoning. If everyone wears a mask (and social distances, etc) it can help prevent thousands of deaths. The negative effects minimal, at absolute worst. Why shouldn’t we wear masks? You keep mentioning “rights” but your definition is unclear. What “right” does an individual have to drive without a license? What “right” does someone have to fire off a gun in a public area? What “right” does a person have to not wear pants in public? You are ironically correct in one way. We do lose our freedoms. When said “freedom” can cause millions of deaths. So yes. THE FLU is causing thousands of deaths a day. If we take away people’s “right” and “freedom” to go to a store without a facial covering it can drop those numbers significantly.

    #1954621

    DY >> when you have a shul where 90% of the people have had Covid, and the other 10% are spread out

    if you have 90% of people who were sick, you were doing something wrong.

    >> claiming all these rabbonim are being fed

    It is possible to be aware of information and still telling their followers not to take certain measures. Biggest motivation would be thinking that their community will be severely damaged by lack of shuls, schools, all institutions they spent years building. One Rav I heard early in Corona on focused his very emotional speech (on the phone) mostly about dangers of Internet. The extreme example of pursuing this protection was an official document that hinted that healthy people should go get tested to reduce the positivity rate, so that the government stops bothering us.

    Still, this public position does not take responsibility away from individuals. If you think that you can survive some challenges, why wouldn’t you try to keep someone, including yourself and your family, safer? It seems like your [SAD] excuse might be that you live in such a community where everyone is getting positive anyway. If this is indeed so, and not rhetorical, you should all sit on the floor and discuss why you all let that happen.

    #1954692
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    if you have 90% of people who were sick, you were doing something wrong.

    If you think that way, you are doing something wrong.

    Biggest motivation would be thinking that their community will be severely damaged by lack of shuls, schools, all institutions they spent years building.

    I guess you are oblivious to the tremendous damage which was done by locking down.

    #1955018
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @madealiyah I pashut don’t understand why you keep bringing up the flu. Everyone wearing masks to stop the spread of the flu may help save a dozen or so people a year. That’s a very hard number to justify. But we are not experiencing the flu, we are experiencing COVID-19 where masks can help save hundreds of thousands a year. Do you not see the difference?

    #1955025
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @daas-yochid If 90% of the shul became sick in the same three month time span, then they were either on the receiving end of some insanely bad mazal, or doing something wrong.

    #1955027
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I’m guessing you and AAQ live in some relatively small jewish communities.

    #1955035
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Syag, must be.

    #1955039
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @daas-yochid @syag-lchochma Why? Because the shuls that decided to ignore COVID restrictions which resulted in 90% infection rates were mostly in large communities? That doesn’t sound good at all.

    #1955040

    Syag>I’m guessing you and AAQ live in some relatively small jewish communities.

    Syag, are you an anti-semite?! You are implying that a large Jewish community means disregard for human health and, accordingly, high infection rates. I reject this definition. Rahmanut is an identifying quality of Jewish people according to Gemorah. If you live in a place where it is lacking, then you live in a small Jewish community.

    #1955047
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Wow, both your brains go to some really odd, and not very kind, places.
    I said you must be from relatively small communities because many of your comments indicate that you live in small communities. Your perceptions and comments about your surroundings don’t match those of people in big communities. For instance if i said i waited for the cholov yisroel milk delivery you could assume i dont live in Lakewood. That’s all. The rest of the garbage you added to your posts was figments of your own unfortunate imaginings toward me.

    #1955049

    DY> I guess you are oblivious to the tremendous damage which was done by locking down

    I am not oblivious. There are people for whom it is easier to be safer, there are others that not.
    I am just saying that there are things each of us individually can do to improve things. I listed some options, and asked you to check whether they are possible. In response, I get inane generic statements.

    I see people in some shuls here disregarding rules also. In one place, apparently Rabbonim require masks inside. So, a bunch of them get out and take masks off and walk without them. The Rav goes back in a mask and sometimes someone even goes near him and continues talking to him without it. Talking about Maaseh Rav.

    Latest example – non-haredi Israelis over 50 are now vaccinated/got infected at 98% rate, hareidi and Arab at 80+% (so your “90%” is not everywhere). What stops that community to go get a free vaccine, especially with being in greater risk and Rabbis approving it? You can’t resolve the problem unless you admit it first.

    #1955056
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I have no idea what you are trying to say

    #1955058

    Syag, I apologize if I misunderstood you.
    We are telling you that it is not OK to have 90% of people infected (which I do not think is correct) and you seem to respond that we seem to live in small communities. I thought this is in response to my concern about your people, but it seems that it was unrelated.

    #1955063
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    >@madealiyah I pashut don’t understand why you keep bringing up the flu.<

    I give up.

    I don’t know if you really don’t understand or you’re just faking it. Either way, I am done with masks and you can continue to obstruct your breathing in the utmost comfort and insist that others do the same, as long as you stay at your side of the pond.

    All the best.

    #1955171
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @madealiyah You made aliyah, so (unless you live in Ramat Beit Shemesh) you probably speak some Hebrew yes? Please say the statement “It is my right to not wear a mask” in Ivrit.

    It is important to act in a way that will save people’s lives. It’s less important to always be careful on the off chance that one person in a thousand can be saved. Wearing masks saves many many lives. That is fact that you have yet to dispute other than baseless claims of breathing restrictions and comments about how an individual’s comfort takes precedence over someone else’s health.

    All the best

    #1955186
    jdf007
    Participant

    It takes more than just wearing a mask, or just “social distancing”. The 6 feet are not a hard and fast rule, that’s if you’re not talking yelling etc, and if you have good ventilation. If you have no ventilation, you need more than 6 feet.
    An naked mouth, shouting, spits as far as coughing in someones face. 20 something feet.

    Hands, face, space, and ventilation.

    Don’t feel like you’re doing proper and get uppity based on one line from the CDC, who is usually in disagreement with the rest of the world or is always too late with the info.

    #1955302
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    @madealiyah You made aliyah, so (unless you live in Ramat Beit Shemesh) you probably speak some Hebrew yes? Please say the statement “It is my right to not wear a mask” in Ivrit.

    Read with a deep Israeli voice:
    לא בא לי לשים מסכה, יש לך בעיה? מעניין את סבתא שלי !!!!!!
    I’ll edit the rest so the mods don’t have to.

    It is important to act in a way that will save people’s lives. It’s less important to always be careful on the off chance that one person in a thousand can be saved. Wearing masks saves many many lives. That is fact that you have yet to dispute other than baseless claims of breathing restrictions and comments about how an individual’s comfort takes precedence over someone else’s health.

    Okay, but you care less about those who died of Influenza than those who died of Covid.
    That’s why you didn’t care about masks until now.

    (Why am I still responding to this thread? Is the lack of Oxygen getting to me?)

    #1955414

    >> you care less about those who died of Influenza

    My kids scored one win when talking with a friend with a non-mask father – the other kid ventured a thought that there are more people dying from car accidents than from COVID. When they jointly checked the numbers, that kid started going to shul in a mask next week and soon even father started wearing a turtleneck where he could hide his chin.

    #1955527
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    My kids scored one win when talking with a friend with a non-mask father – the other kid ventured a thought that there are more people dying from car accidents than from COVID. When they jointly checked the numbers, that kid started going to shul in a mask next week and soon even father started wearing a turtleneck where he could hide his chin.

    To quote @DaasYochid: I have no idea what you are trying to say.

    #1955536
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @madealiyah I love your translation BTW. Though I did notice something missing. Like the word “right”.

    You say that I don’t care about influenza deaths, but then you’re the one who doesn’t care about COVID deaths. OK, I’ll take that. I’ll agree to not caring about the one person out of 3 million who die, if you can admit that you don’t care about the one person out of six thousand who die.

    #1955541
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    We are telling you that it is not OK to have 90% of people infected

    Correction- you were overconfidently saying that it came through negligence. This and many other comments give credence to your being from a small or smaller community. It was not meant as an insult, it was a partial explanation for an impasse.

    #1955545
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    A part of me believes the flu comparison is a red herring, but I do believe your disregard for the developmental and emotional damage these restrictions have caused/are causing is criminal. Escaping death but living in hell isn’t something to brag about. And playing a numbers game in this area is inexcusable.

    #1955550
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    “I’ll agree to not caring about the one person out of 3 million who die, ”

    Well, seems you just blew your ‘every life counts’ argument out the window. Which was pretty much your foundation for the rest of your arguments. If you can “not care” about any life at all you aren’t worth arguing with.

    Best to call it quits and head for home.

    #1955554
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    @madealiyah I love your translation BTW.

    Thanks.

    Though I did notice something missing. Like the word “right”.

    It’s:
    זכות
    Why’d you ask?

    You say that I don’t care about influenza deaths, but then you’re the one who doesn’t care about COVID deaths. OK, I’ll take that. I’ll agree to not caring about the one person out of 3 million who die, if you can admit that you don’t care about the one person out of six thousand who die.

    I don’t want you agree to people dying, I don’t think that’s moral.
    However the reason I can’t agree with you on the ‘people die so you must mask’ reasoning, is that I would also be required to mask for the flu.
    If you can help me out on that I might be able to agree with you.

    Yes, I know Influenza is less dangerous than Covid.
    But please please please don’t play the numbers game.
    Human life is more than a statistic.

    #1955599
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @MadeAliya The problem is that זכות doesn’t mean “right”, it best translates to “privilege”. The difference between the two is that a “right” is something that everyone can do and it cannot be taken away, barring extreme circumstances. A זכות is something that you are awarded. So what you’re saying is that we can only earn the זכות of walking around without face masks and social distancing.

    At the end of the day while every life is precious, there is a cheshbon to be made as to what an individual’s responsibility is in saving lives. Like how we weigh driving against deaths by vehicle. Or mentally ill people owning firearms against firearm deaths by mentally ill people. Or wearing a mask against deaths by COVID. Or wearing a mask against deaths by the flu. Or opening schools against deaths by COVID. Everything is a calculated risk and we have to calculate if the risk is worth it. In some cases it is, in some it isn’t. We can’t equate every risk.


    @Syag-Lchochma

    A part of me believes the flu comparison is a red herring, but I do believe your disregard for the developmental and emotional damage these restrictions have caused/are causing is criminal.

    Eh. I only brought up the flu because @MadeAliyah keeps harping on it. I’m not disregarding the bad parts of the restrictions, I’m saying that you and others are exaggerated the damages caused by wearing masks and de-emphasizing the advantages. You’re viewing this as a binary choice, like the other guy. That either we lock everything down, or we just let everyone do what they want.

    I mean, for example, closing schools is a very extreme restriction that has very bad effects. Even though schools being open leads to COVID hospitalizations and Chas v’Shalom even death, it’s simply not worth it to keep them closed. But simple things, like wearing masks, or splitting a minyan up so there will be less mispallelim in each, those should be done since the tradeoff is so minimal.

    #1955631
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    @MadeAliya The problem is that זכות doesn’t mean “right”, it best translates to “privilege”. The difference between the two is that a “right” is something that everyone can do and it cannot be taken away, barring extreme circumstances. A זכות is something that you are awarded. So what you’re saying is that we can only earn the זכות of walking around without face masks and social distancing.

    You obviously don’t speak Ivrit.
    (Not judging, you might live in Ramat Beit Shemesh.)

    #1955634
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    At the end of the day while every life is precious, there is a cheshbon to be made as to what an individual’s responsibility is in saving lives. Like how we weigh driving against deaths by vehicle. Or mentally ill people owning firearms against firearm deaths by mentally ill people. Or wearing a mask against deaths by COVID. Or wearing a mask against deaths by the flu. Or opening schools against deaths by COVID. Everything is a calculated risk and we have to calculate if the risk is worth it. In some cases it is, in some it isn’t. We can’t equate every risk.

    So you agree that we can make our own cheshbon. Perfect! That’s all we ever wanted to hear.

    @☕️DaasYochid☕️, @🍫Syag-Lchochma, now that we’re done, any ideas for a new thread?

    #1955678
    Yserbius123
    Participant

    @madealiyah Two questions:

    1. Why are you so against wearing a mask?
    2. Do you believe what epidemiologist have been saying that if 90% of people would wear masks when around others, we could have prevented most COVID deaths?
    #1955696
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    Do you believe what epidemiologists have been saying that if 90% of people would wear masks when around others, we could have prevented most COVID deaths?

    And most flu deaths.
    Unless I am mistaken, masking stopped the flu almost entirely.

    Why are you so against wearing a mask?

    Against? Not at all!
    I am pro-choice; you want to wear a mask? Wear one. Don’t want to? Your choice.
    You have said that “there is a cheshbon to be made as to what an individual’s responsibility is in saving lives”. I don’t need you to make that cheshbon for me.

    Now that we agree, can we wrap up this thread?

    #1955757

    MadeAliya is asking a good question – where is the boundary for risk? What does Gemora mean by “saving one life = saving the whole world”. I understand halakhic guidelines as what is seen as normal in daily activity. This is, of course, relative. There were times during human history where COVID would not be considered much comparing with damage by other illnesses and by people to each other ….

    But before doing a cut-off, we need to first order threats according to their danger and describe costs of preventing them, and then apply some limits based on danger and costs. Naturally, Jewish considerations might be different from US government .. for example, there is an issue of your own decision in a famous case where you are at the wheel of a train that is going to hit 5 people, are you allowed to turn to the different track where you will hit “just” 1 person…

    but, back to basics:
    it seems that current COVID dangers are way over car crashes and flu. So, it is worth paying attention to before addressing flu.
    what about costs – many here listed mental, learning, societal costs. Ok, so let’s list what we can do to address COVID sorting from those that are easy on people. At the same time, some might be machmir especially on themselves if they value their Yiddishkeit.

    Some simple ideas, tell me whether you are doing them or are they high maintenance?
    – open windows in shul and school
    – not flying for vacation
    – ordering delivery from the store instead of going there
    – learning with your child for one day a week, or forming a small group with neighbors, instead of sending to a crowded school
    – going one time less to shul, or not talking there, or not staying for kiddush

    Some of this may require a small effort or even cots, but, I think, not more than shlepping to buy shmurah matza or buying an esrog mehadrin. Presumably, those who are not machmir in this, simply do not consider this a mitzvah, but just a consideration that they can entertain lightly “how about the flu”, rather than asking shailos and learning tosafos.

    #1955770
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    And most flu deaths.
    Unless I am mistaken, masking stopped the flu almost entirely.

    That, and serious reduction in international travel

    #1955772
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Some simple ideas, tell me whether you are doing them or are they high maintenance?
    Ok

    – open windows in shul and school

    Not if it’s cold outside. Was never my decision anyhow.

    – not flying for vacation

    I hardly do that anyway, but is flying for business safer? Why do you ask about vacation?

    – ordering delivery from the store instead of going there

    I did that in the beginning.

    – learning with your child for one day a week, or forming a small group with neighbors, instead of sending to a crowded school

    No, no, chas v’shalom except when the yeshivos were closed or we were in quarantine.

    – going one time less to shul,

    Unfortunately, didn’t go to shul for months when they were closed, but after they opened, no

    or not talking there,

    Good idea anyhow. When it was okay to talk, stayed six feet away from people who were unmasked and hadn’t had Covid

    or not staying for kiddush

    Yes, I didn’t go to kiddushim except to say a brief mazel tov.

    #1955771
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    @☕️DaasYochid☕️, @🍫Syag-Lchochma, now that we’re done, any ideas for a new thread?

    Can we talk about hand sanitizer?

    #1955782
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Funny you should mention hand sanitizer. From the begining i believed that using hand sanitizer was much more productive than masks. And my theory was that the guys who call the shots knew that too but didn’t want to have to supply it so they kinda dropped it early on, way earlier than they should have, and opted for pushing masks which you would purchase yourselves.

    #1955786
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Hmmm…

    Which guys who call the shots? Store owners?

    #1955824
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    Can we talk about hand sanitizer?

    I use bleach for my pesach cleaning. I didn’t know that people use hand sanitizer. Where did you get this idea from?

    #1955843
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Where did you get this idea from?

    My friend says his wife keeps hiding the vodka, so he uses hand sanitizer instead. It doesn’t taste as good, but does the job.

    #1956101
    MadeAliyah
    Participant

    My friend says his wife keeps hiding the vodka, so he uses hand sanitizer instead. It doesn’t taste as good, but does the job.

    🤣🤣

    #1965777
    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    True story (although it doesn’t fit Yserbius’ agenda so he’ll probably call me a liar again):

    A guy I know was in the hospital with his wife who was having a baby. He noticed her o2 saturation was sitting at 91. He told the nurse to let her remove her mask, and within a minute or two it jumped up to 98.

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