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December 7, 2025 10:21 am at 10:21 am #2482320Yaakov Yosef AParticipant
ujm – “And what do you have to say about the fact that Kastner was STILL defending Nazis AFTER the war was over, and there were no more even fake excuses for it?”
Actually, the position of the Satmar Rebbe זצ״ל himself on that question is much more nuanced than yours. According to מושיען של ישראל (you should definitely read it if you want to understand his perspective on the entire Kastner episode, which is NOT the same as yours) he did not categorically ‘asser’ the possibility of testifying about actions done by Nazis such as Becher and Wislicieny ימח שמם who did in fact save Jews (when the price was right and to save their skin after the fall of Germany). He was however loath to get involved in such a disgusting endeavor, and he recommended to his Chassidim to stay away from it themselves, but he DID NOT hold Kastner to necessarily be in the wrong for testifying. (He was no friend of Kastner, to be sure, but not because of this particular issue.)
The two main טענות against the Zionists according to the Satmar Rebbe, Rav Michoel Ber Weissmandel, and even some secular historians and thinkers, is their refusal to use their money and connections to aid any rescue project that would send Jews anywhere other than “British Palestine”, and their refusal to use the large amounts of money at their disposal to bribe the Nazis to release more Hungarian Jews. These two facts are well documented, although there are those who question to what extent the Nazis would really have gone through with the second of them. To which the Satmar Rebbe, Rav Weissmandel, and those who agree with their position (which on this issue is most of the Chareidi world and a significant number of non-Chareidim too) response is that even if $10,000,000 (in 1944 dollars, which the Zionist financial institutions had, but wanted to save for their projects…) would have saved one more Jewish life (in reality even one more train would have saved well over a thousand, and theoretically many more could have been saved at least ספק פיקוח נפש) it would have been well worth it. The Zionist response, expressed by Yitzchok Greenbaum שר״י, was “one cow in Palestine is worth more than all the old Rabbis in Europe.” עפרא לפומיה.
So, there WAS a lot going on back then, but it is important to get the facts straight.
None of this implies any sort of היתר to risk Jewish lives NOW to spite dead Zionists because of what they did THEN. Note that the whole טענה against the Zionists was their willingness to jeopardize Jewish lives in the name of their ideology. So, if YOU or your NK friends are willing to jeopardize Jewish lives in the name of YOUR (anti-Zionist) ideology, you aren’t better than them…
December 7, 2025 10:21 am at 10:21 am #2482407ujmParticipantYankel: Katner’s defense of Nazi mass murderers AFTER the war in the Nuremberg Trials is quite well known and a matter of the historical record. He was even condemned for it in Israeli courts (the Judge Levy trial).
I definitely recognize you are not defending Kastner.
But aside from the train, read read about the Vrba-Wetzler Report. Kastner knew IN ADVANCE what Eichmann and the Nazis were planning to do to the Hungarian Jews, deport them to Aushwitz and gas them to death, and he yet refused to publicly disclose that information to the Hungarian Jews so that they would otherwise refuse to voluntarily go on the trains to Aushwitz.
December 7, 2025 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2482757ujmParticipantYaakov: In מושיען של ישראל Rabbi Shlomo Yaakov Gelbman points out that Kastner and the SS officers (Kurt Becher and Dieter Wisliceny) formed a genuine camaraderie. The book emphasizes that they drank together, played cards, and socialized while Jews were burning. The book highlights Kastner’s post-war testimony at Nuremberg on behalf of Kurt Becher and others like Hermann Krumey as the ultimate proof of his betrayal. It says that Kastner testified for Becher not because of a “promise,” but because they were “partners in crime.” It says that Kastner needed Becher to survive and remain free so that their shared secrets (and potentially shared loot) would not be exposed.
The book mentions that Kastner and the Zionist establishment in Palestine actively blocked or sabotaged rescue attempts that did not lead to Palestine. It says the Zionists believed that saving Jews to send them to America or Romania would not help build the State of Israel. They needed “Chalutzim” (pioneers) for the state, not refugees for the Diaspora.
The book brings evidence that the Va’ada (Kastner’s committee) had access to vast sums of money from the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee (“The Joint”) and other sources. It states Kastner refused to use this money to bribe border guards or finance underground railroads into Romania (a safer option for the masses). The book points out that Kastner feared that “disorderly” mass escapes would anger Eichmann and jeopardize the “VIP Train.”
It suggests that while the “Blood for Goods” (Trucks for Jews) offer was on the table, the Zionist leadership did not genuinely try to raise the money or fake the negotiations to stall the slaughter, because they were fixated on the smaller, surer “Zionist” victory of the train.
מושיען של ישראל concludes that Kastner was a traitor who sacrificed the 450,000 Jews of the Hungarian provinces to save a few thousand “Zionist assets” and his own family.
December 7, 2025 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #2482758ujmParticipantThe memoirs of Adolf Eichmann ym”s were published in 1960 by Life Magazine. Eichmann described Kastner with a chilling “respect.” He called Kastner an “ice-cold lawyer” and a “fanatic Zionist.” This is quote from Eichmann’s memoirs:
“I believe that Kastner would have sacrificed a thousand or a hundred thousand of his blood to achieve his political goal… He agreed to help keep the Jews from resisting in the deportation camps if I would close my eyes and let a few hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate to Palestine. It was a good bargain.”
Eichmann essentially confirmed the prosecution’s theory: Kastner (who regularly drank cognac and played cards with Eichmann) traded the orderliness of the masses (“biological waste” in Eichmann’s eyes) for the “best biological material” (the pioneers/Zionists).
December 7, 2025 4:24 pm at 4:24 pm #2482773SQUARE_ROOTParticipantEven if everything that UJM said about Mr. Kastner is true
(and why should we believe it is true, without Shomer Shabbos witnesses)
that *** DOES NOT JUSTIFY *** UJM’s relentless fanatical hate
against *** ALL *** Zionists, even Religious Zionists, 75 years later.December 8, 2025 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2482948Shimon KatzParticipantSQUARE_ROOT said: “Even if everything that UJM said about Mr. Kastner is true
(and why should we believe it is true, without Shomer Shabbos witnesses)”Most of these things are in fact true, and for a lot of them there are Shomer Shabbos witnesses. The fact that the Zionists in general (not just Kastner) were opposed to (or at least indifferent to) any Hatzalah effort that wouldn’t bring Jews to (what was then called British Mandate) Palestine, is well documented. Kastner himself was assassinated in Israel some years later, although who exactly did it (his enemies or his “friends”…) and why (for plain revenge, or to prevent his further trial from exposing things the assassin and his friends wanted to keep hidden…) remains a mystery (which was never properly investigated by the Israeli police…)
“that *** DOES NOT JUSTIFY *** UJM’s relentless fanatical hate
against *** ALL *** Zionists, even Religious Zionists, 75 years later.”It does justify not getting too excited about the State of Israel and its founders. It certainly doesn’t justify the insanity of the (Neo) “Neturei Karta”. By the way, Religious Zionists may actually be the only “real” Zionists left.
December 8, 2025 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2482960ujmParticipantMore from “To the Butcher II”, Life Magazine, December 5, 1960.
The Setting: Argentina, 1957. Eichmann was living freely as “Ricardo Klement.” Interviewer: Willem Sassen, a Dutch journalist.
”This Dr. Kastner… was a young man about my age, an ice-cold lawyer and a fanatical Zionist. He agreed to help keep the Jews from resisting in the deportation camps if I would close my eyes and let a few hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate to Palestine. It was a good bargain.”
Eichmann said that he and Kastner shared a similar ideology: that the “masses” were less important than the “elite.”
Eichmann wrote that Kastner was willing to sacrifice the old, the assimilated, and the “weak” Jews to save the “best biological material”—the young pioneers who would build Israel.The Quote: “For Kastner, as for me, it was a question of the best biological material.”
He stated that Kastner knew exactly where the trains were going (Auschwitz). Eichmann wrote: “We trusted each other perfectly… With his great polish and reserve he (Kastner) would have made an ideal Gestapo officer himself.”
Direct Quotation: “He (Kastner) agreed to help keep the Jews from resisting deportation—and even keep order in the collection camps—if I would close my eyes and let a few hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate illegally to Palestine. It was a good bargain.”
Direct Quotation: ”While we talked he would smoke one aromatic cigarette after another, taking them from a silver case and lighting them with a little silver lighter.”
December 8, 2025 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2482966yankel berelParticipantfor once I agree with square
the historical episode with kastner – either way
is totally irrelevant to ujm ‘s real objective …
the dismantlement of the blindly hated medina
leaving millions of innocents at the ‘mercy’ of somejews friends , chas veshalom ….
.
.December 9, 2025 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2483648SQUARE_ROOTParticipantShimon Katz said:
“Religious Zionists may actually be the only real Zionists left.”
__________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:I agree with this comment.
In the 1990s, many Secular Israelis were identifying as “Post-Zionist”,
meaning that they no longer identified themselves as Zionists.I strongly suspect that this trend has increased greatly since then,
even though Jews are no longer talking about it.December 9, 2025 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2483649SQUARE_ROOTParticipantYankel Berel said:
“For once, I agree with SQUARE.”
__________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:Thank you, sir.
I wish you a safe and warm winter.
December 9, 2025 10:02 am at 10:02 am #2483688yankel berelParticipantujm blindly trusts the testimony of a confirmed mass murderer ….
.
anyway —the historical episode with kastner – either way
is totally irrelevant to ujm ‘s real objective …
the dismantlement of the blindly hated medina
leaving millions of innocents at the ‘mercy’ of somejews friends , chas veshalom ….
.
.December 9, 2025 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2484038ujmParticipantYankel: The overwhelming evidence condemning Kastner does not rely on Eichmann ym”s. It is so overwhelming that even Kastner’s own Zionist courts in Israel condemned him as a traitor to the Jewish people.
December 9, 2025 10:18 pm at 10:18 pm #2484040ujmParticipantZionist Judge Halevi, in the Kastner Trial, condemned Kastner for “having sold his soul to the Devil”.
December 10, 2025 11:53 am at 11:53 am #2484321yankel berelParticipantagain ujm is moving the goalposts
it was ujm who quoted eichman to besmirch kastner
so my following post stands :
ujm blindly trusts the testimony of a confirmed mass murderer ….
.
anyway —the historical episode with kastner – either way
is totally irrelevant to ujm ‘s real objective …
the dismantlement of the blindly hated medina
leaving millions of innocents at the ‘mercy’ of somejews friends , chas veshalom ….
.
.December 10, 2025 2:25 pm at 2:25 pm #2484626ujmParticipantYankel: You are again a prevaricator. I brought proofs from Talmidei Chachomim and even from the Zionists themselves, where their courts and judges in Israel condemned Kastner.
December 11, 2025 1:20 pm at 1:20 pm #2484740yankel berelParticipantDecember 11, 2025 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #2484904SQUARE_ROOTParticipantUJM said:
Zionist Judge Halevi, in the Kastner Trial,
condemned Kastner for “having sold his soul to the Devil”.
__________________________________________
MY RESPONSE:You just contradicted yourself!
You have said or implied many times, that the ONLY people
we should listen to are the Chareidi Gedolim, and everyone else
should be completely ignored, especially the Zionists.Yet you just asked as to believe Judge Halevi,
even though he is [or was] a “Zionist”!Why should we believe a Zionist like Judge Halevi,
after you told us NOT to listen to Zionists?
__________________________________________On a different topic, your comments in this YWN Coffee Room
have done more to make Jews HATE EACH OTHER
than anything else that I have seen in many years.You constantly work to make Jews HATE EACH OTHER,
and YWN is also guilty, because they approve your
hate-filled hate-causing comments.If YWN truly desires to promote Jewish unity
and help Jews be zocheh to the Melech HaMashiach,
then they should delete all of your comments and ban you completely.In Olam HaBa, the hate between Jews that you caused many times
will outweigh all of your good deeds, and drag you down to Gehinom.
You laugh at me now, but you won’t be laughing in Gehinom.And YWN Moderators will join you in Gehinom,
because they approved your sinful comments.December 21, 2025 7:20 am at 7:20 am #2488297ujmParticipantsmerel: “As I said a few months ago I’m no longer posting here because of the type of people who do. Now I’m taking the next step and having my filter block it altogether. “
This was the second time smerel claimed he will be gone from this site, and now he was gonna block it in his filter, altogether!
Yikes; just when we thought we *really* will be missing him this time, we find him — again — this week posting on the main site of YWN.
Apparently he was able to figure out a trick to beat his filter.
December 21, 2025 11:57 am at 11:57 am #2488683yankel berelParticipantujm is not answering so will do it for him …
ujm’s post from December 7, 2025 4:23 pm :
The memoirs of Adolf Eichmann ym”s were published ….. Eichmann described Kastner with a chilling “respect.” He called Kastner an “ice-cold lawyer” and a “fanatic Zionist.” This is quote from Eichmann’s memoirs:
“I believe that Kastner would have sacrificed a thousand or a hundred thousand of his blood to achieve his political goal… He agreed to help keep the Jews from resisting in the deportation camps if I would close my eyes and let a few hundred or a few thousand young Jews emigrate to Palestine. It was a good bargain.”
[ujm]——–
ujm trusts the testimony of a confirmed mass murderer ….
.
.December 21, 2025 1:41 pm at 1:41 pm #2488818ujmParticipantYankel: I offered the Zionists own testimony against Kastner’s Nazi collaboration , I offered Gedolei Yisroel’s testimony against Kastner Nazi collaboration and, as a point of reference in addition to the preceding, I offered what the Nazis themselves said about Kastner’s collaboration with them.
December 22, 2025 7:10 pm at 7:10 pm #2489781yankel berelParticipant@Ujm :
anyway —
the historical episode with kastner – either way
is totally irrelevant to your real objective …
the dismantlement of the blindly hated medina
leaving millions of innocents at the ‘mercy’ of somejews friends , chas veshalom ….
.
.December 23, 2025 6:14 am at 6:14 am #2489843GadolHadofiParticipantyankel berel,
“ujm trusts the testimony of a confirmed mass murderer”
That’s because he’s from Nazi blood and not even Jewish!
December 23, 2025 8:11 pm at 8:11 pm #2490614yankel berelParticipant@gadol hadofi
ujm quotes the testimony of a confirmed mass murderer …
… because anything goes to satisfy his blind obsession : the dismantlement of the fanatically hated medina at all costs …
…. at all costs ….
…. those terrible costs to be born by millions of innocents in EY …
but not by ujm …. he will watch safely from his home ….
ujm seems quite royal about those costs … he will not have suffer any of those costs ….
nor will his compatriots somejew and katan have to suffer ….
that may explain their blind and fanatical posts ….
.
.December 25, 2025 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #2491073SQUARE_ROOTParticipantYankel Berel, I thank you for speaking THE TRUTH about UJM.
UJM should LISTEN to Yankel Berel, because Yankel Berel is SMARTER than UJM.
UJM is NOT INTELLIGENT — he just has a big mouth, a very big mouth.
December 25, 2025 2:06 pm at 2:06 pm #2491132CHOOSIDParticipantI met a great mashpia in dubai where we were doing a kiruv fabreng and he said that a yesod is everything is good in moderation.
so the moderations of this website are probaly good and doing their best.
Its like the maaseh of the Rinshanzder roov who told a goy to jump. The goy jumped and the ruv said “you see? a goy can only jump so high but when a yid jumps he truly jumps!!” -
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