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Lipman is a bad source for anything. He regularly attacks the Torah community in Eretz Yisroel and is constantly agitating and attacking the frum community.
Rabbi Lipman is a frum Jew. He has disagreements with other frum Jews on a number of issues, especially the assault and insult of frum 8 year old girls trying to get in to their frum school in their own neighborhood by vile people who identify themselves with what I think you are calling the “Torah community”.
He got smicha from R’Yaakov Weinberg zt’l. He went to Ner. He was one of the founders of the kollel in Cincinnati. His writings are published by Feldheim and Targum, his divrei Torah and insights have been used by both the OU and Aish. He spent 6 further years in chinuch before making aliyah. He teaches in a seminary that I am familiar with that has brought more young women closer to frumkeit than your unwarranted exclusivism ever will.
Is he a perfect individual? Undoubtedly he is not. But maybe some of his criticism – or most of it – is well founded. Evidently musmachei Ner Yisroel and marbitzei Torah don’t meet you sniff test.
He may have semicha from Ner Yisroel but a better test would be to see if Ner Yisroel touts him as one of their musmachim.
There are plenty of people who call themselves musmachim of any number of yeshivos and have since strayed far from the ideals of the yeshivah were they originally achieved simcha. Yes it can be both ways.
What is really telling is a) that he identifies himself as a political activist b) one of his significant concerns is that these kids can’t speak ivrit and thus should cut back on limud gemarah. That hardly seems to coincide with the hashkafos of Ner Yisrael.
The description of the students he seems to be referring to also do not seem to be of the sort that pass through Ner Yisrael or Torah Vodayh or Mir or Chaim Berlin etc. vda”l.
Based on my own experiences and discussions I’ve had with many very experienced melamdim, his suggestions are off base.
Why isn’t this lashon hara?
I’m not saying he must be listened to by all. I’m not saying his hashkafa is for all. But I am saying that being motzi shem ra on him is wrong, and is unfortunately all too common a tactic used by the zealots among us to stifle any perspective that isn’t THEIR perspective.
Lipman is
and is unfortunately all too common a tactic used by the zealots among us to stifle any perspective that isn’t THEIR perspective.
As is the purposeful deletion of a person’s honorific.
The Wolf
I know people who are the head of organizations and Ive asked them if they believe in constructive criticism. They told me not only do they accept it, they encourage it.
It seems the only place its not encouraged is chinuch. Everyone should listen to all VALID ideas (Some ideas are not meant to be contructive, only criticism) You have to know who is giving the criticism , why they are giving it and what is their motivation.
If they really want to help the yeshiva , it should be sought after and encouraged
My issue is with someone who is trying to change tried and true education al derech yisroel sabo and defines himeself as a “political activist” . That is his own description.
The teitch of a political activist is most often a rabble rouser.
Bare in mind that political activist is the title he chose for himself.
Nisht, if you are familiar with the the situation in Beit Shemesh, you will know that the problems Rav Lipman is confronting are problems he didn’t seek out, but rather that were thrust upon him and the moderate frum and chardal community by zealots. As well, He has followed the “teitch” of Degel HaTorah, Shas, and other religious political parties by joining with like minded frum rabbis (like Rav Amsallem in his case) to advance an agenda that he believes will make the lives of his Torah observant community and his constituents better. If it is good for the goose, it should be good for the gander, as they say.
Lipman, among other things, is strenuously attempting to block the building of housing for the frum community in Beit Shemesh.
Yichusdik,
Thank you for proving my point.
If in fact you are identifying his contituency as Chardal or moderate frum and being aligned with Amsalem and to the exclusion of regular frum why would people tout that he has smicha from a Frum institution? He has thus clearly divorced his hashkafah from the haskofos of that institution.
Are you saying that his words about a lack of interest in learning and yiddishkeit were then directed solely to the chardal and moderate frum?
As far as the goose and the gander, I think there is a distinct difference because he defined himeself as a polical activist. Which is different even from a politician, way different. It is by definition a rabble rouser. Think of the euphimism “community organizer”. And it in my opinion most certainly precludes him from being a “man deomar” suggesting changes to chinuch.
Rabbi Lipman is n part of a frum community that has been there for decades. He is questioning the incredibly bad and potentially corrupt planning and service delivery departments of the Iriyah, which have for years promised and clearly indicated the city’s responsibility to build more shuls and more frum schools (very anti frum, that) to serve the existing frum community, before they expand on those “promised” lands for more housing. He is questioning the flagrant abuse of the law by those (apparently the only ones who you consider frum) who are stoning women in their cars in B’S, spitting on 8 year old girls and calling them pritzas, and who are attempting to impose their standards on a community that already has its own standards and rabonim. He is questioning the fact that the Iriyah and the mayor seem to be in the pockets of these heilige serial abusers of the frum public.
If the net result of that justified advocacy is blocking housing, then I guess he is guilty as charged.
nishtdayngesheft,
That is a perfect description you gave him, as a rabble rouse. See this:
VIDEO: Who Caused The Tension In Beit Shemesh? Watch This, & Decide For Yourselves
As you can see, Lipman b’davka comes to cheppa with frum Yidden. He b’davka walks with an immodestly dressed woman (short-sleeved) with a dog, purposefully walking past a Chareidi Yeshiva with bochorim and yungerliet for no reason, and as he gets close to the Yeshiva, before anything happens, he starts pumping his fists in the air to start a fight with them. He brings cameramen to stick cameras in their faces and ‘pats on the shoulders’ some of the yeshivaleit he doesn’t like, to cheppe with them.
Nisht, I don’t think I have. Newsflash. There is no regular frum, moderate frum, frum, ultra frum. Sorry to use such strong language, but I think that is all garbage, intended to put up walls between Jews when we are directed to extend a hand. Frum is frum, and it isn’t a narrow thing, it means observance of halocho, granted with different interpretations. I reject the divisions you imply utterly.
I know personally dozens of graduates of Ner Yisroel who identify hashkafically in way similar to R’ Lipman, and who are part and parcel of the yeshivish community. He has not divorced himself from his Alma Mater any more than they have.
His words in the article, If I read it correctly, were not directed at the Chardal. Not at anyone in Eretz Yisroel, actually. They were directed at kids who feel alienated, disenfranchised and uninspired by the institutions they learn in and by the methods that are being used to teach them. I don’t know if he is right. My point was not to reject him out of hand because you identify more with the people he and his community are being besieged by in Beit Shemesh.
Lastly, you and I have different understandings of the words “political activist”. Where I come from, that means someone, anyone, who steps beyond the usual voter apathy, who takes an issue of importance to his community or constituency, and uses the means, ways, and tools available to advocate for his constituency on that issue. It may mean raising money for a politician who he agrees with, it may mean using the media to put forward a message, it may mean going door to door before an election to get out the vote. It may mean identifying with a new party that he and his community feel will represent them well. All of these are political activism. None of these is against Torah. Frum Jews from Satmer to Bnei Akiva do it all the time. And the manhigim of the frum parties in the Knesset did and do it too, to pursue goals they saw as important as R’ Lipman sees his.
The differences you are trying to paint are entirely artificial.
If in fact you are identifying his contituency as Chardal or moderate frum and being aligned with Amsalem and to the exclusion of regular frum why would people tout that he has smicha from a Frum institution? He has thus clearly divorced his hashkafah from the haskofos of that institution.
I know personally dozens of graduates of Ner Yisroel who identify hashkafically in way similar to R’ Lipman, and who are part and parcel of the yeshivish community.
That is because the Ner Yisroel community is nothing like the Charaidi Bais Shemesh community. In fact, most Ner Yisroel Bochrim & grads would not be allowed to live in the Charaidi communities there, and would be tossed out by force if they somehow managed to get in.
I disagree with the premise of the article, that learning Tanach will teach Middos. Many Bochrim have no chance at having Middos in our yeshivos (which contributes to all the crises), and it isn’t even the yeshivos fault, to the most part. It is the parents, who don’t teach their children and spoil them rotten. It is the shaddchanim, who tell the boys they are worth 2K a month and raise their ego. It is the system, which doesn’t test and has no expectations. No amount of Tanach can help that.
Some Bochrim do have Middos, and that comes from the home, plus Siyata D’Shmaya. May we all be so lucky to have children who have Middos.
Maybe some musser would help a select few, but for those, we as a klal are better off if they learn and become Poskim. Once they marry they will either divorce or be forced to learn/have middos.
</rant>
“Yichusdik”,
You were the one who brought up alleged differences in frum. I quote you fro
above “upon him ( Lipman) and the chardal and moderate frum community”. It was you who made the distinctions. And I thus wondered if you believe that his remarks were directed specifically to those you associated him to.
As far as hashkofos being in line with Ner Yisroel, you tell me that he and Amsalem have the same or similar agendas. I do not believe those are in line with the hashkofos of Ner Yisroel. You cannot convince me that R Aharon Feldman would consider those hashkafos in line with the Yeshiva’s to put it mildly.
Another clue is his focus on speaking ivrit as a key part of limudai kodesh. To the extent that it should push away gemarah learning almost in entirety.
And I disagree with you about some one who defines himself as a political activist. And it would seem that his actions support my understanding as does his little article on education.
Gut Shabbos. Shabbat Shalom.
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