September 9, 2009 6:04 pm at 6:04 pm #658297tzippiMember
SJS, I missed that! Where is it?September 9, 2009 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #658298SJSinNYCMember
GAW mentioned it in his post (one of the ones about 5 hours ago from now). GAW cracks me up a lot!September 9, 2009 6:50 pm at 6:50 pm #658299
lesschumras: “I’m just curious, then, why we imitate and continue here what worked well for them ( chalav yisroel, kitnyos,) and instead now decide the best strategy for our current situation.”
Valid question. Chalav Yisroel is a gezeira from the time of the Mishna, and the rule is that a gezeira of Chazal is valid until eliminated by a more significant Beis Din then the one that enacted it. Kitniyos is a much later minhag, from the late Ashkenazi Rishonim, and never had the status of a gezeira. However the Yaavatz writes that as much as he would like to do away with what he considered an illogical chumra, he was not willing to uproot a long standing minhag paskened in the Rema. Additionally, I have heard from a Sefardi Rav active in the kashrus field that the original issue of kitniyos is alive and well today. He told me that he went to inspect a soybean oil factory for Pesach and found every single sack of soybeans contained numerous grains of wheat.September 9, 2009 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #658300
SJS: Not my intent, but thank you.
PM: since you are here, do you have a source why/how the Kollel movement began/changed? See my post earlier today.September 9, 2009 7:47 pm at 7:47 pm #658301
GAW: Your reason is certainly one of the significant factors in the change, but I believe it is not the only one. Another factor I have heard mentioned is the relative affluence of today’s society makes long-term Kollel possible for a large segment of the population. According to this explanation, this type of learning was ALWAYS ideal and the Gemarra only meant to say that for practical considerations it was not feasible for wide swaths of the community. Even in the current economic situation we are much better off then our ancestors were in most of the Old World. Of course if the problems continue to deepen, chas v’shalom, the Gedolim will need to reevaluate the current realities. Even if the situation returns to the way it was 2 years ago, the Gedolim, I trust, constantly have their finger on the pulse of the Nation to determine what is the proper manner for the community to conduct itself.
I’m afraid I cannot quote a specific source for this understanding of the growth of the Kollel movement.September 9, 2009 7:54 pm at 7:54 pm #658302
Sure, why deal with the 1800’s when we can talk about the times of Chizkiyahu when we had conscription INTO Kollel 🙂September 9, 2009 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #658303Josh31Participant
“when we can talk about the times of Chizkiyahu when we had conscription INTO Kollel”
They had the booty from Sancherev then.
Did this Kollel lead into a long tern spiritual rise?
As soon as Chizkiyahu died, Menasheh took over and we had what might be the steepest spiritual decline in our history…September 9, 2009 8:28 pm at 8:28 pm #658304
Josh31:-pSeptember 9, 2009 9:54 pm at 9:54 pm #658305
Josh: are you disagreeing with Chizkiyahu? The Gemarra strongly praises the situation he created where even young children were fluent in halacha.September 9, 2009 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #658306
GAW: I only want to talk about here and now. We can try to deduce from history the ideal arrangement, the the actual implementation will inevitable be unique in every generation and location.
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