November 1, 2011 3:14 pm at 3:14 pm #827387
I agree. And his comments usually are calm until someone starts making fun or putting him on the defensive.November 1, 2011 3:19 pm at 3:19 pm #827388
oot, thanks for the support. It’s tough to do the right thing.November 1, 2011 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #827389BTGuyParticipant
“Stop with the “shmiras halashon” scream. Enough of that already. We are dealing with a very sick demented mentally disturbed person who intimidates, stalks, harasses people, steals from people, and lots of other illegal behavior.”
I was unaware that a real problem existed. Thank you for taking care of it. Still, Shimras HaLoshon cannot be brushed off because of a real problem existed. The danger of finger pointing in many daily threads and coming up with nothing is a problem for everyone for many reasons.
Give the person calling the fire department a direct line to call in his reports instead of interrupting following the thread of each topic they post in with their suspicions. I am sure not speaking to the topic of any given thread is not within the TOS as it is interruptive and creates displays paranoia.
Incidentally, someone who keeps calling the fire department too often with nothing going on, can be fined. There are ways to handle things. From this point if the person wants to announce their suspicions, I will have to ignore it. But it is highly interruptive to enjoying Coffee Room communication.November 1, 2011 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #827390
Once the indictment is unsealed, people can relax their guard a bit.
If anyone has had unwanted email contact from any user in or have been harassed in any way by email, please click the “contact us” button above. Thank you. confidentiality assured.November 1, 2011 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #827391
I’m with Team Jothar. Keep up the pressure.November 1, 2011 6:01 pm at 6:01 pm #827392
It’s not about pressure. It’s stopping criminal activity and helping a yid who is too mentally ill to realize he needs serious help. It’s a chessed both ways.November 1, 2011 6:49 pm at 6:49 pm #827393
Jothar- how were you able to pick up so much information that we don’t see? Is this someone you know? I am just wondering how it all went right over my head, I am generally not that clueless.
*Syag* CR Shomer- self proclaimedNovember 1, 2011 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #827394
I’m with Team Jothar! Keep up the chessed!November 1, 2011 8:44 pm at 8:44 pm #827395OneOfManyParticipant
I agree with you, Jothar. People have a right to anonymity, even if they don’t understand how valuable it is.November 1, 2011 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #827396
Is there really something so illegal/immoral about sending an unwarranted email? I would call it spam.
Jothar, being that you mentioned having sent back an email, obviously you were contacted. Do you feel ‘stalked’?November 1, 2011 10:58 pm at 10:58 pm #827397
Haleivi, welcome back. Long time no see.
No comment on anything that did or did not happen. Seyag lechachma shtika.
But why is email worse than a telephone? threatening phone calls=harassment. Email is the same felony.
I pick things up because I work in IT security. I read articles on phishing and social engineering, and are therefore attuned to security-related things that others might miss. It’s the same way that a linguist might notice accents others might miss, and an economist might notice how economics plays into things we never would have guessed. Example of good social engineering- someone grabs a purse from a woman. He now has her wallet, phone, and her bank card. he sees a contact labeled “hubby”. He texts the victim’s husband: what’s the pin for the bank? He texts it back. Before anyone realizes, the bank account has been cleared out. yes, it actually happened.
Also, many people use things like birthdays, children, etc as passwords. If you find out enough info, you can connect the dots and do serious damage.
This social engineering trick happened in Brooklyn recently- may be on ywn from a while back- a guy goes around and says he’s from Con Ed. people open the door for him, he checks the meter and disappears a few other items before anyone realizes. 2 guys scammed much of Brooklyn this way.
So if I see criminal-looking activity, I point it out. I am doing a chessed for the rabbim and get attacked for it, sometimes from well-meaning people, sometimes from SN’s of one of the infostealers. Al menas kein. The CR deserves no less. I assume this will get better after the indictment.November 1, 2011 11:07 pm at 11:07 pm #827398
Jothar: Although your intentions are good, and I respect you for protecting the fellow cr’ers, you gave some of us quite a scare. I for one, grew really frightened. And now you say the game’s (almost)over without elaborating. Look, we’re not toys who you can play around with. Please give us a legitimate reason why we should feel safe now. I truly feel that you owe us an explanation.
I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings by posting this. I really don’t want to make you feel bad. Maybe I’m taking it harder than others.November 2, 2011 12:51 am at 12:51 am #827399
observanteen: I don’t think Jothar said anything has changed. You should always be practicing internet safety.
Especially since we have our very own confirmed creep.November 2, 2011 12:58 am at 12:58 am #827400
observanteen – I’m with you about not liking being given half stories but don’t be scared in that way. What he, and others, are trying to say is that there may be people looking for info who will try to contact you as a friend (or whatever else he is referring to). If you DO NOT respond to their gesture you should be okay. If someone catches you off gaurd by claiming to know you or someone in your family then you should be suspicious, or at least cautious. But if nothing comes your way you certainly don’t need to be worrying. It’s like warning someone not to open the door for strangers. If nobody knocks than don’t worry. But if they knock and you don’t recognize them, don’t take their word for it that they are your long lost buddy from kindergarten.
Does that help???November 2, 2011 2:22 am at 2:22 am #827401
What actually happened to me once was that a certain infostealer somehow found out my real name, and made up a facebook name. I confirmed him as a friend but asked him “who are you”? My intention was to remove him in a day. Sure enough, I completely forgot to remove him until he tried connecting to another friend of mine, after which I removed him. So I know something about IT security, and I got nailed. How many of you confirm every facebook friend without thinking?
Now, let’s say you use your birthday or license plate # as a password, or a favorite character. Someone with access to your facebook page will soon know your likes, dislikes, favorite shows/movies, license plate (occasional photo of car), birthdays of spouses and kids, their names, etc. A good technique for your password is to mash 2 words together from the dictionary that have no relation to you, change a letter to a number and add in %%%in the middle to throw off brute force password crackers. The CIA assigns code names from random dictionary words unrelated to the project, to avoid easy guessing.November 2, 2011 2:24 am at 2:24 am #827402
Many people watched the family-friendly film Home Alone. Everyone remembers the kid and his fun defeating the burglars. But very few remember the beginning- the burglars dress up as cops and use social engineering to have people tell them all their security measures.November 2, 2011 3:12 am at 3:12 am #827403
Jothar – Not to change the subject but it sounds like not having facebook often solves half the problem.November 2, 2011 3:12 am at 3:12 am #827404
As for actual details of the current case, they must remain secret until the indictment is unsealed, to make sure the guilty party’s only 2 choices are Otisville or Riker’s depending on the level of the felonies. Otisville has a minyan and Daf yomi (and a weekly Friday trip to the mikveh in the Catskills- if you are ever by the mikveh you can see them lined up in orange), and is less dangerous than Riker’s.November 2, 2011 3:29 am at 3:29 am #827405smartcookieMember
Jothar- I can’t believe you actually accept a Facebook friend whom you don’t recognize. Same way it’s beyond me why people open emails from unknown addresses.
The world is full of bad people, you cannot get rid of them
It’s up to every poster here to be responsible over what they post. You cannot worry for the entire CR.November 2, 2011 5:28 am at 5:28 am #827406November 2, 2011 10:04 am at 10:04 am #827407moi aussiMember
Some people guard their identity in such an extreme way, it’s indicative of paranoia. I understand and appreciate that we don’t give out our real names and email addresses, however an email address does not compromise anyone’s safety. Some of the comments suggest that giving out an email is like giving a murderer the keys of my house, or giving a thief my safe combination.
There are hundreds of people out there who have my email address (including Yeshiva World), and I have not yet been killed or robbed.
We need to keep things in proportion. Protect your identity but don’t go overboard. Should anyone find out your name, it’s NOT the end of the world!!November 2, 2011 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #827408
smartcookie, it was irresponsible. I couldn’t figure out how to send a message first without being their friend, and I took a gamble. In retrospect, it was stupid.
CR is full of people, especially teenagers, who frankly don’t know the risks. It is my responsibility based on “lo saamod” to alert people to danger if they don’t know it. If I see someone crossing the street and they didn’t notice the truck headed their way, can I ignore it and say “it’s his responsibility”? If I see something, I say something. The torah demands no less.November 2, 2011 1:35 pm at 1:35 pm #827409
Another common thing to look out for- many people will hide a key under the doormat or in the mail box. If I was a burglar, guess where the first 2 places are that I would look for a key? And those fake rocks they sell that hide keys? You typical burglar will scope out locksmith stores looking to see these gadgets so they can recognize them for what they are.
True story way back when in Israel- a certain yeshiva had doors that locked to prevent theft. Many bochurim stored keys on top of the door ledges so they wouldn’t have to carry them around. One yom kippur day, someone sneaks into the yeshiva, goes to the dorm, feels for the keys, and this bochur is now out 1200 shekel. Moral- don’t hide keys in obvious places.November 2, 2011 1:46 pm at 1:46 pm #827410midwesternerParticipant
I’ve done some independant follow-up. I too back Jothar and whoever else is involved in their quest.November 2, 2011 3:48 pm at 3:48 pm #827414BTGuyParticipant
Jothar, you are not alerting people to dangers. You are sloppily creating loshon hora and dan lekaf zcheus issues for all of us by not handling your suspicions behind the scenes with email warnings or waiting for a real problem.
You can not run amok among everyone in the name of good hoping to find someone doing wrong while stepping on the toes of good people.
Specific cases in point: 1. You posted asking people what time they daven. 2. You asked for information, in the name of alumni, on how to effectively track people.
My point is this: I have seen more than one person post less “mining” points and you vigorously confronted them in public in their threads in an accusatory way, which you mistakenly thought was preventative.
That is not ok with me and you are bringing all of us in to loshon hora and dan lekaf zcheus issues by confronting things impuslively. Yes, impulsively. You were wrong in all those cases of posters you confronted. They were not criminals. But you hide behind a good cause and move your merry way and get away with it.
Internet security concerns are not unique to you, even if you want to be the poster child. We want internet security, but what you are doing is making people afraid and offending innocents in the process. How is that a just way to handle things?November 2, 2011 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #827415
He didnt start the minyan thread.November 2, 2011 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #827416
.. and I thought is was safe to resume breathing again…November 2, 2011 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #827418
BTguy, the longer this thread continued, the more people rallied to my side. The case is a tzoah sheyesh lah ikkur. But I appreciate your concerns. Feel free to contact the mods or ywn owner if you feel I crossed any lines. Hatzlacha.November 2, 2011 4:59 pm at 4:59 pm #827420
OK. Let’s create a <PRESS HERE if you feel I crossed any lines> button.November 2, 2011 5:16 pm at 5:16 pm #827422Avram in MDParticipant
You are sloppily creating loshon hora and dan lekaf zcheus issues for all of us by not handling your suspicions behind the scenes with email warnings or waiting for a real problem.
From what I’ve seen, Jothar has been making a case for better protection of users’ identities by pointing out threads that might be problematic, not posters, and making general recommendations to not share PII or other seemingly innocent information that can be combined to make PII. I read more than I post, and I have seen several instances in the CR where a poster attempts (or threatens/claims to attempt) to harm another poster “IRL” after the latter poster revealed enough information online to provide an identity. One example was an attempt by “mosherose” to have another poster thrown out of a shiur in real life (see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/changed-topic-of-shiur-do-i-have-a-right-to-be-disappointed). I don’t think such behavior is ok, do you?November 2, 2011 5:30 pm at 5:30 pm #827423
(see http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/changed-topic-of-shiur-do-i-have-a-right-to-be-disappointed). I don’t think such behavior is ok, do you?
Wow. I missed that the first time around. This is some excellent mosherosing, and not at all consistent with his usual hit and run kanaus.November 2, 2011 7:03 pm at 7:03 pm #827426
BTguy, there seems to be two issues going on here. Jothar says that with his keen eye, he noticed phishing. He contacted the moderators, or owners, and they agreed. Besides this, if you read the MIB (Mod In Bold) on this thread you will see that they have a different issue. Both combined makes this, and related, threads confusing.November 2, 2011 7:11 pm at 7:11 pm #827427charlie brownMember
wow, I missed that too the first time. I assume that any doubters will come around after reading that thread!November 2, 2011 7:48 pm at 7:48 pm #827428
HaLeivi, thank you for the support. As for the 2 issues vs. 1, I’m struggling myself to understand if there are 2 issues or 1. The phishing might be related to the stalking issue, as more details helps a stalker do better stalking. Or it might be a completely separate criminal activity.
Charlie Brown, there will always be those who refuse to hear no matter how black-and-white the issue is. But let’s repost the MIB, to make it clear which is the right side:
It already is. And it’s being dealt with on a legal level. Think about it for a minute. If someone broke into your store in the dead of night, and secretly hung around there for ages doing all types of damage, stalking people, threatening people, blackmailing people etc, you would have them arrested too.
And MIB #2:
Stop with the “shmiras halashon” scream. Enough of that already. We are dealing with a very sick demented mentally disturbed person who intimidates, stalks, harasses people, steals from people, and lots of other illegal behavior.November 2, 2011 7:55 pm at 7:55 pm #827429
Anyone remember the one in good ole USSR, a guy peeking in a mirror saying “Either you or me is an informer!”November 2, 2011 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #827430charlie brownMember
zeeskite, mommy said its you!November 2, 2011 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #827431
Zeeskite,are the mods lying?November 2, 2011 9:29 pm at 9:29 pm #827432
Jothar, like we said in Hallel:
“Oh No. I don’t know. How should I know?”November 3, 2011 12:11 am at 12:11 am #827433
Zeeskite, a groyseh shkoyach for pointing out the big issue with the CR- someone says the sky is blue on a clear day, and someone says “maybe it’s red”.
Imagine what it’s like to have to use the bathroom when other cellmates are watching. Our infostealer may soon undergo this degradation every day, once the warrant is finished. I feel bad for him.November 3, 2011 1:21 am at 1:21 am #827434
(but anyways how do YOU know what goes on in the whammy? – BTDT?)November 3, 2011 7:57 am at 7:57 am #827435hanibParticipant
observanteen – i agree with your 2 posts. i also thought that writing one’s profile was required (as it said so) and assumed that no one could see what i wrote, until someone wrote my profession on one of the threads. i quickly changed my profile. also, i’m also totally confused by what everyone is writing here. my only assumption is that the known infamous multi-screen poster around here who has asked people phishing questions has tried to contact someone in real life.
the Jewish world is so small that probably we all know someone who knows someone who knows each of us; so anyone who is not all mentally there or who is not so nice can easily find out who we are in real life. and you’re right – that is scary. i’m scaring myself.November 3, 2011 7:59 am at 7:59 am #827436hanibParticipant
it’s not fair to label everyone who disagrees with Jothar, “Joseph”.
i think many people would like to believe that the cr is safe; that’s what’s so fun and nice about it – the feeling that one can be themselves anonymously.November 3, 2011 1:13 pm at 1:13 pm #827437
Take a look at any picture of a clink.
It could be that mr. infostealer will fail his psychiatric exam and get put in a nice room in Creedmoor- privacy and kosher food. He’ll also get the help he needs. No internet though.November 3, 2011 3:24 pm at 3:24 pm #827439
binahyeseirah: Welcome back! I truly missed you here. Your common sense is a rare virtue;).
I thought mod 80 fixed that (the profile thing)but I just realized that he probably didn’t. I hope they fix it soon.
Hope you stay here!November 3, 2011 4:17 pm at 4:17 pm #827441kapustaParticipant
observe, in my experience with the CR, the mods are posters on a higher level. They have control over which comments appear, but very little to do with sight design. You raised a good point and probably the best way for anything to be done is to use the “contact us” page. (I’m not volunteering you for the job, just trying to explain why you may not get results just yet.)
Dear mods, I didn’t mean what I said in the last paragraph. You’re posters on a way, WAY, higher level. Can’t even compare you to us little folk. 😉November 3, 2011 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #827442
I wish the CR was safe. It has the illusion of being cozy and intimate. However, it’s not. Just because someone standing in shul has a beard and payos doesn’t mean he won’t hurt you. The community has found this out the hard way. Online is the same as real life. A few in the CR have found this out the hard way- trust the mods on this one. Even after the infostealer is safely away, who says there aren’t others lurking? The CR is open to anyone who can click on the “coffee room” link, just like a shul or yeshiva is open to anybody who can pull/push the door open.November 3, 2011 5:05 pm at 5:05 pm #827443
kapusta: Thanks for enlightening me. I don’t think I’ll do that though.November 3, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #827444
OK, So when is this big one going to hit the newsstands –
“Big Fish Caught”
The Big Fish has been caught just as he was attempting to flee Coffee Room. Airline officials say he already was on the plane when they realized He was the one they were after. They hurriedly whisked him to a secure location. He was searched and was found in possession of multiple screen names, which carry a maximum sentence of 5 years. A quick investigation revealed a positive DNA match to posts he’d been emitting throughout the years.
Aliza A, 31, who refused to give us her first name, said “WOW!” S. Gonzalez, 28, a neighbor who refused to give his last name, said he always thought Big Fish to be a nice neighbor.
Federal and Local YW officials hope to announce the indictment shortly.November 3, 2011 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #827445
It’s probably against the policy of this site to publish the story of BigFish.November 3, 2011 7:29 pm at 7:29 pm #827446Avram in MDParticipant
Why are you so bothered by Jothar bringing up very real online privacy issues? You have been calling him out unprovoked in several threads.
I don’t know anything about the law enforcement issues Jothar and the moderators are alluding to, so I am not commenting about that.
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