Bli Neder no music until all hostages are free

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  • #2240640
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Soon after the massacre on October 7, 2023, I stopped listening to all music.

    My intention (Bli Neder) is to not listen to any kind of music,
    until all the hostages are free, and returned to their homes.

    I hope they are freed very soon, even today.
    I don’t know how long I can maintain this resolution.

    Nobody told me to do this.

    But enjoying myself by listening to music just does not feel right,
    when so many hostages and their families are suffering.
    And also the suffering of the injured and widows and orphans.

    You can do whatever you want, but I feel that I must do this.

    #2240665
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Your showing Hashem that your taking part of the important middah of being nosei b’ol your brethren suffering in klal yisroel and this is a very high level of care and showing Hashem our loving father and king of Kings.

    May it be a zchus for you and also for all of klal yisroel to show Hashem that we should be deserving of the coming of Mashiach already bkarov and openly confess with love to Hashem our doing of serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP like one loving nation

    #2240752
    anIsraeliYid
    Participant

    It is quite the commitment, and as an Israeli, I am touched by your gesture. This is not for everyone, but as Sam Klein said, you are being Noseh b’Ol Chaveiro in a way that is meaningful.

    I note that here in Israel, some people specifically do listen to music now as a way to keep themselves from drowning in the situation – and that is proper too. It is akin to the Abarbenel hiring musicians to play for the Jews leaving Spain on Tisha b’Av in 1492 – he felt that the need to strengthen the spirits of those being expelled was enough of a reason to override the general Issue of music on Tisha b’Av.

    an Israeli Yid.

    #2240794
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    Yasher koach! Being nosei b’ol is a huge deal. I posted about it a few weeks ago (https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/nosei-bol-chaveiro), as R’ Bender had spoken about it.
    I gave up eating dessert after meals. Small things make all the difference!

    #2240819
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    I would humbly suggest taking on kabalos which are required, as we all have nisyonos in one mitzvah or another. Whether it’s shmiras aynayim, shmiras halashon, bitul Torah, or whatever else; I think mitzvos which are obligatory should come before deprival of pleasure.

    Also, if you learn/daven better after having desert or if you listen to music, I’m pretty sure it’s more important to learn and daven better than to give up those pleasures.

    I don’t mean to criticize what is clearly a very meaningful, inspired feeling that people have now, to do better, to be nosei b’ohl. Just some “food” for thought

    #2240847
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    In Yerusalem no music is played at weddings for the past 150 years, yet life goes on.
    PS on a side note, I don’t know if the music being performed these days qualifies as Yiddisher music.

    #2240845
    ujm
    Participant

    Isn’t there an issur against listening to music before the Beis Hamikdash is rebuilt?

    #2240857
    sechel83
    Participant

    there is a issur to listen to music, there is a machlokes when its asur or mutar. see sh”u 560. rama, bach. so many hold that its assur to listen to music, so great idea – chumra, hidur – to take on.

    #2240976
    Sarah S
    Participant

    I have also taken this on, not as a takanah, but because of the feeling of availus that I have. Last night’s ZAKA concert was pretty much the first time I’ve listened since the start of this horror.

    #2241100
    RBZS
    Participant

    Kol hakavod to all of you for your very noble feelings and acts of nosei be’ol.
    Another suggestion is to say at least once a day “asher yatzar” with kavanah – preferably while reading it, rather than by heart – and to have in mind that Hashem Who heals all mankind should heal all who have been injured by terrorism and the war.
    And, of course, we should think – and even say – the same in the berachah of refaeinu in Shemoneh Esrei.

    #2241163

    Some people in Israel reported being busy making green tzitzis to match IDF uniform that were reportedly requested by multiple soldiers (who presumably did not wear them previously).

    #2241159

    How about contacting an Yid dressed differently from oneself and saying something nice to him

    #2241213
    Adam Neira
    Participant

    To the Owners and/or Moderators of TYW,

    Any reason my important comments posted yesterday 20/11 were not published?

    Adam Neira
    Founder World Peace 2050
    Founded April 2000 in Melbourne, Australia

    P.S. Caroline and I have been in Jerusalem since 14/9/2023. We arrived in Eilat on 13/9 after spending 7 days in Jordan and 8 days in Saudi Arabia.

    Just wasn’t really sure who you are, where you’re coming from, or what your message was about. Nothing personal.

    #2241675
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Earlier today, I caught myself humming a musical tune.

    As soon I realized what I was doing, I remembered the horrible suffering of our people in Eretz HaKodesh, so I immediately stopped humming.

    Once again, you are all free people, so you can do whatever you want, and you do NOT need to do what I have done.

    I do not know how much longer I can hold by this resolution, because in our times, many of us are very weak, and we tend to not be able to hold by our resolutions.

    To RBZS: Over the past three years, almost every Asher Yatzar that I recited has been dedicated to people on my own personal cholim list.

    To AviraDeArah: Your comment is logical, but I am eliminating music from my life (bli neder) because that is what I feel I am capable of doing, at this time.

    #2244978
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    I am still not listening to any kind of music,
    because of the great suffering in Eretz HaKodesh.

    My question is: What to do about Chanukah?

    After thinking about it, I decided that during Chanukah,
    I will still not actively pursue listening to music (bli neder),
    but if I am in a place where music is playing,
    I will allow myself to passively enjoy it.

    #2245010
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Square root

    Your absolutely going in the right direction with the right intentions in mind. Does a mourner not listen or sing music during the Shabbos meal or during a holiday whichever holiday it might be? As the wisest person King Solomon said thousands of years ago “there’s a time and a place for everything” but he doesn’t stop there what does he do? He lists over 25 examples of situations for a person to be in and ends “for a time of Calamity comes to them all”. Do you know which Pasuk this is in Koheles? It is the Passuk of 9-11 (the 9th Chapter & 11th sentence), relating to Tisha B’av. The day set aside by Hashem to be a day of mourning. Is this coincidence? Is this not shocking? Look at the list of so many calamities & tragedies that has occurred in the past relating to 9-11. (from the ones which I have already mentioned to some which I may mention soon) How many thousands of years ago was the book of Koheles written? Who made it come out to be this Passuk of 9-11? was it Shlomo Hamelech or was it Hashem? This is another message directly from Hashem for us to stop our way of life we are living in today’s generation….-Which we think is perfect & Sinless-immediately & start doing Teshuva.

    May we all accept Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP so Hashem can send Mashiach already bkarov before Chanukah starts so Klal yisroel can spend Chanukah in Yerushalayim with the rebuilding of the Bais hamikdosh bkarov

    #2245304
    yitz711
    Participant

    Sam Klein, nice thought but Tisha B’Av isn’t 9/11. As Nissan is the “head of months”, Av is the fifth month. (See Zecharia 8:19.)

    #2245522
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    Yitz721

    If Nissan is the start of the new year then why do we change the year number in Tishrei and also daven for a good year ahead in Tishrei? Shouldn’t it be in Nissan according to what you wrote?

    We can’t run away from Hashems direct messages and if the entire world really changed the new year in Nissan and not Tishrei then Hashem would have made all the messages relating to Tisha bav would all come out to be 9/5 instead of 9/11 so stop fooling yourself and think we can run away from Hashems wake up call for serious Teshuva and Achdus cause that’s why we’re still sadly in exile today cause we continue to live I denial instead of waking up to FACE REALITY IMMEDIATELY ace start doing serious Teshuva and Achdus together ASAP so Hashem can send Mashiach already bkarov

    #2245547
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I take it Sam hasn’t learned Gemara rosh hashana

    #2255121
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    I recently passed my 100th consecutive day without listening to any kind of music.

    I did this because my inner voice will not allow me to enjoy music, while our people in our land are suffering — not just in one way, but they are suffering in many ways.

    I do not know when I will listen to music again,
    or even ** IF ** I will ever listen to music again.

    Even if the war ended tomorrow, and even if all the terrorists surrendered unconditionally, there are still more than 1,200 of our people killed in the initial attack, and around 200 of our soldiers killed in war, and many hundreds with injuries that will never heal, and many hundreds of new widows and new orphans, and people who fled from their homes, and ruined businesses, and ruined farms, and lots of other problems.

    Therefore, even if the war ended tomorrow,
    I might not be able to listen to any kind of music,
    for many years to come. I just do not know.

    #2256594
    CS
    Participant

    Respect.

    #2259386
    SayIDidIt™
    Participant

    At the Shloshim Azkara for Harav Matisyahu Salomon ZT”L, R’ Avraham Schorr said that he knows of a family that lives outside of Lakewood who the girls have not taken a hot shower since Shemini Atzeres (only lukewarm showers).

    Source: TorahAnytime Class ID: 278950 Timecode: 21:10

    SiDi™

    #2259510
    DaMoshe
    Participant

    At the Darchei Torah dinner a few weeks ago, R’ Bender said that there’s a boy in Darchei who is doing the same thing – only lukewarm showers. There are others who have taken on other things. I believe there’s a boy who is sleeping without pillows.
    I’ve had dessert a couple of times, for a specific reason. We had Shabbos guests who brought dessert, and purposely brought something they know I enjoy. I didn’t want them to feel bad, so I had a small piece. I spoke to a Rav after, and he agreed that it was the right thing to do.

    #2259710
    sechel83
    Participant

    to point out todays Hayom Yom:

    One of the Baal Shem Tov’s teachings:
    “When you see chamor, a donkey”1 – when you carefully examine your chomer (“materiality”), your body, you will see…
    …”your enemy” – meaning, that your chomer hates your Divine soul that longs for G‑dliness and the spiritual, and furthermore, you will see that it is…
    …”lying under its burden” placed upon it – (the body) by G‑d, namely, that it should become refined through Torah and mitzvot; but the body is lazy to fulfill them. It may then occur to you that…
    …”you will refrain from helping it” – to enable it to fulfill its mission, and instead you will follow the path of mortification2 of the flesh to break down the body’s crass materiality. However, not in this approach will the light of Torah reside. Rather…
    …”you must aid it” – purify the body, refine it, but do not break it by mortification.

    the Taz writes (Even HaEzer 25:1) that one who eats well and sleeps adequately to have energy to serve Hashem earns the same merit as one who fasts. He thus explains the passuk (Tehilim 127:2) “It is futile for you who arise early, who sit late, who eat the bread of toil, so will the Lord give to one who banishes sleep from himself” – both learners who deprive themselves of sleep in order to learn and those who sleep adequately before learning earn the same merit, because what one can do in an hour after sleeping well, a sleep-deprived learner does in two. “It is futile for you who arise early” – the efforts you make to wake up early in the morning and sit up late in the Beis Midrash at night, are for naught, because: “…So will the Lord give to one who banishes sleep from himself.” The portion of Torah of one who sleeps properly and one who deprives himself of sleep will be equal. : “Everything depends on the intention“

    #2259868
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Nachi Gordon Urges Community Not to Flaunt Lavish Vacations on Social Media
    February 7, 2024 by Baruch Green

    (VINnews) — Kudos to renowned podcaster and media figure Nachi Gordon, who has called out members of the frum community who boast about their lavish vacations on WhatsApp, Facebook, and Instagram, while so many people are suffering in Eretz Yisrael.

    In a Twitter post Tuesday, the founder and CEO of Meaningful Minute and the co-host of Meaningful People, pointed out the insensitivity of American Jews posting about vacations while our fellow Jews are at war.

    He expressed criticism of “flaunting five star vacations when chayalim are sleeping on the floor in Gaza” and people are “fighting with blood, sweat and tears in Gaza”.

    Nachi made it clear that there is nothing wrong with taking a vacation, suggesting that the real issue is flaunting it and lacking proper sensitivity to the plight of so many Jewish brethren.

    #2259902
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @SR, who is Nachi? never heard of him, does he daven in YIM

    #2267845
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    My Thoughts After 150 Days without Music
    =============================

    Since my early childhood, music has always been part of my life.
    Since my early childhood, I listened to music almost every day of my life.
    I used to spend lots of time listening to music, both by day and by night.

    Then on October 7, 2023, Hamas committed genocidal terrorist attacks on Jews.
    This has been called “the worst loss of Jewish life since the Holocaust”.

    Since then, for more than 150 days, I have not spent even one minute
    listening to any kind of music, because I cannot justify enjoying myself with music,
    while our brothers and sisters in our homeland experience horrific suffering.

    Nobody told me to do this; only my own mind makes me do it.
    I never did anything like this before; it is a new experience for me.

    Sometimes memories of the music that I used to listen to enter my mind,
    but I push those memories away, because for me, memories of the music
    that I used to listen to are almost like listening to music,
    because my musical memories are very accurate.

    Without listening to music, or even listening to my musical memories,
    I believe that mind and thoughts have become clearer.

    Several weeks ago, I saw an advertisement for a new kind of pillow,
    which claimed to offer superior comfort while sleeping.
    I wanted to buy that pillow, to help me sleep better.

    But then I remembered that our brothers and sisters in our homeland
    are experiencing horrific suffering. So I decided to not buy the pillow,
    because I cannot increase my comfort while so many Jews suffer so much.

    When the Melech HaMashiach comes, and all of our suffering has ended,
    then I can get that new pillow.

    #2268007
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    You never answered my question who is Nachi and why should we listen to him?

    #2268121
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    Commonsaychel,

    My assumption is that it’s nachi Gordon (of meaningful minute podcast)

    #2268129
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    @Coffee, who is Mr. Gordon and what is area of expertise?

    #2268156
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    I told you who he is

    What does it matter what his expertise is?

    #2268190
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    “What does it matter what his expertise is?”
    If you expect people to be impressed because someone says something then that person has expertise in the subject matter not some ramblings of a blogger.
    The rant of a blogger carries the same authority of some drunk on the subway.

    #2268212
    ☕️coffee addict
    Participant

    “The rant of a blogger carries the same authority of some drunk on the subway.“

    And if people decide to follow the ramblings of “some blogger” (or for that matter some drunkard on the subway) you have a problem with that?

    Why does it bother you? No one said you have to follow what he says

    #2268225
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    No one said you have to follow what he says

    Actually Sqaure Root did, your free to follow any blogger or drunk but holding them up as an expert of some sort that’s a whole separate matter.

    #2268228
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    Dear Mr. Common Saychel,

    PLEASE STOP telling lies about me!

    I *** NEVER *** said that anyone must do what I am doing!!

    As I have pointed-out many times in the past,
    laitzanus [mockery] is a violation of Torah Law,
    just like Lashon HaRa or Nivul Peh or eating traif.

    Yet for some reason beyond my understanding,
    you always post laitzanus messages to this Coffee Room.

    And you always get-away with it, too!!
    Why the moderators do not stop you, I cannot understand.

    Sincerely,
    SQUARE_ROOT

    #2268375
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Dear Square Root,

    I never said any lies about you or for that matter anything about you.

    My issue is that you post rambling post from unknown people as if its torahs moshe, I have no issue if the person is a known expert in that particular field [ such as Rabbi Dr Twerski and addiction] but when you post a stupid comment from someone unknown I will not take it seriously, nothing against you.

    Sincerely

    Commonsaychel

    #2271139
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant
    #2283360
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    My Thoughts After 215 Days without Music
    =============================

    I believe that I think more clearly, as a result of not listening to any music.
    That was not my intention, but it is probably a result.

    I now strongly suspect that most of the time I spent listening to any music
    was just a waste of time, when I should have been doing more important things.

    Strangely, I do not miss the music very much,
    even though I enjoyed listening to it for many years.

    Sometimes memories of the music that I used to listen to enter my mind,
    seemingly at random, without me wanting them.

    Bli Neder, I try to avoid listening to these musical memories,
    because they are so accurate that just remembering the music
    that I used to listen to would be like actually listening to that music.

    I am not saying that anyone should follow my example.
    This is for me alone to do, not other people.

    I just cannot justify enjoying myself with music,
    when our brothers and sisters in our land
    are suffering in many different ways.

    I do not know how much longer I will do this.

    #2283657
    Sam Klein
    Participant

    SQUARE ROOT

    I am extremely jealous of your bravery and reward that awaits you for what you’re still keeping up with to this day and not stopping for the sake of our loving brethren suffering in Gaza and not even knowing what their conditions are currently.

    May Hashem give you lots of Hatzlacha in everything and may it be a great merit for them to all be freed quickly very soon.

    #2283963
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    With the drivel that passes for today’s Jewish music I think I won’t listen even after the hostages are released.

    #2283966

    This is easy to test – look at your posts 216 days ago and see if you are thinking better now.

    #2285482
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    I again want to explain why I have not listened to music in 220+ days.

    It is not only because of our people being held hostage by Hamas terrorists.

    It is also because this war has killed many innocent and very praiseworthy
    Jewish soldiers, who died (HYD) in a very praiseworthy attempt
    to defend our sacred land from genocidal Hamas/Amalek terrorists.

    It is also because this war has made hundreds of our innocent and
    praiseworthy Jewish women and children into widows and orphans.

    It is also because this war has made thousands of our innocent and
    praiseworthy Jewish brothers and sisters, who live in our sacred land,
    into refugees and poor people.

    It is also because this war has made thousands of our innocent and
    praiseworthy Jewish brothers and sisters, who live in our sacred land,
    unable to sleep at night, because of fear for themselves
    and worry for others.

    It is also because this war has made thousands of our innocent and
    praiseworthy Jewish brothers and sisters, who live in our sacred land,
    die with unbelievable cruelty, even children.

    Even if I did listen to music, I would not be able to enjoy it,
    because of the great suffering of our innocent and praiseworthy
    Jewish brothers and sisters, who live in our sacred land.

    I might be wrong about this, but sometimes I suspect that
    I am not the same person that I was before the 2023 Oct 7
    massacre. The person who I was before could listen to music,
    every day, and enjoy it, but the person who I am now cannot.

    The part of me that could listen to music and enjoy it, is broken,
    and I do not know if it will ever be repaired.

    Last but not least, the very small suffering that I accept on myself
    by not listening to music, is *** NOTHING *** compared to
    the suffering of our innocent and praiseworthy Jewish soldiers,
    who experienced injury and death, and their widows and orphans.

    #2285609
    Red Adair
    Participant

    SQUARE_ROOT, tizku lemitzvos. That’s an amazing kabala and it’s even more impressive that you’ve stuck to it all this time. May Hashem watch over and protect those who are risking their lives protecting B’nei Yisroel, and may we be zoche to see the safe return of the hostages and the eradication of Hamas.

    #2300507
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Sam, do not use chapter notation to learn anything from it as it was not created by Jews.

    #2300508
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    We should only use chapters for reference only.

    #2300900
    Richmond Braun
    Participant

    Very chashuv. Maybe some should adopt no music till all jewish sick are healed. Untill all non frum jews do tshuva.

    #2302280
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    My Thoughts After 300 Days without Music
    =============================

    Over the past 300 days, I have not listened to even one minute of music,
    because of the great suffering of our people, in our Holy Land.
    Even if I had listened to music, I would not have been able to enjoy it,
    because of my knowledge of their suffering.

    I cannot listen to music when it seems that every week,
    more of our precious soldiers, who defend our precious Holy Land, are killed.

    I cannot listen to music when 8 soldiers are killed in one day,
    by a Muslim-Nazi genocidal-terrorist booby trap.

    I cannot listen to music when soldiers in their 20s are being killed,
    with at least one 19 year old soldier killed.

    I cannot listen to music when those who righteously fight
    to defend us from Muslim-Nazi genocidal-terrorists
    suffer permanent injuries, injuries that will never heal.

    I cannot listen to music when parents of these soldiers suffer
    the most horrific fate that any parent can experience:
    their children dying young, without giving them any grandchildren.

    It seems ironic to me that I cannot remember things that I learned
    in High School or College, even though I spent many hours
    studying for tests; yet memories of the music that I used to listen to
    enter my mind every day and every night, even music that I listened to
    in the 1970s and 1980s. It seems that musical memories are the
    longest-lasting memories; at least for me, and maybe for other people also.

    I wish that all the time that I spent listening to music had instead
    been spent accomplishing some useful goal, because listening
    to music is pleasant, but it is not as useful as accomplishments,
    nor is it equal in importance to achievements.

    Last but not least, the very-small inconvenience that I suffer
    by not listening to music is NOTHING, when compared to
    the vastly greater suffering of our brothers and sisters in our Holy Land.
    May G*D save them, and us here in the exile, very soon.

    #2332328
    SQUARE_ROOT
    Participant

    My Thoughts After 400 Days without Music
    =============================

    After 400 days without music, my memories of the
    music that I used to listen to seem to be fading slowly.

    Still, musical memories continue to enter my mind every day,
    unwanted and unprovoked. This seems to indicate that I spent
    way too much time listening to music, before
    the Nova Music Festival massacre of October 7, 2023.

    A few weeks ago, a pleasant musical memory entered my mind.
    Because my musical memories are very accurate, this gave me
    just as much pleasure as actually listening to music, for a few seconds.

    Then I remembered the soldiers in Eretz Yisrael who lost
    hands and feet and arms and legs, and then suddenly,
    my pleasant musical memory stopped, because I could not
    allow myself to enjoy myself that way when our heroes are suffering.

    How can I listen to music when the one country that
    is SUPPOSED to be our big friend betrays us
    and helps genocidal terrorists who want us all dead?

    Not too long ago, when I heard someone say that all
    of the hostages were probably dead, I shook for a moment,
    as if I were suddenly hit by a big blast of freezing cold air.

    50 years ago, one of my childhood memories was Israel
    being attacked by the surrounding nations, nations who
    intended to commit genocide against Israel’s entire Jewish population.

    50 years later, Israel is still being attacked by armies who
    intend to commit genocide against Israel’s entire Jewish population.

    Like Mr. Jackie Mason said in September 2014:
    “Three things are certain: death, taxes and anti-Semitism”.

    The MSM (Mainstream News Media) does everything possible
    to make Israel look like the wicked villains and also make
    Israel’s genocidal terrorist enemies look like innocent victims.

    The MSM immediately accepts the claims of Israel’s genocidal
    terrorist enemies as being 100% true and reliable,
    because they believe that Jews should be the only people
    in the world who should not have their own land to live in.

    The MSM also believes that Israel should be the ONLY country
    in the world that must defend itself with ZERO civilian casualties,
    even when they fight against lunatic genocidal terrorist enemies
    who always use civilians as Human Shields
    (for example: Hamas and Hezbollah).

    =========================
    Shmuel Abramson said:

    My Heilige Zaideh was an Odom Gadol and leader in the Oilam HaYeshivos of America.

    During the 1967 war, he didn’t eat for 6 days when the “Treifeh Medina” was under attack.

    This was a Yid who couldn’t stand for the faults of that Medina, yet a yid is a yid is a yid!

    SOURCE: Letter to the Editor: Lakewood Protest or Unity?
    Choosing Solidarity with Eretz Yisroel During Wartime

    by Shmuel Abramson, 2024 September 26, VIN News (dot) com

    =========================
    On 2024 October 14 Yeshiva World News reported:

    “Rebbetzin Leah Kolodetsky, the daughter of HaGaon HaRav Chaim Kanievsky, z’tl,
    moved the relatives of hostages to tears who visited her at her home in Bnei Brak
    on Sunday evening. The hostages’ relatives were in Bnei Brak as a part of a Sukkos tour.

    The Rebbetzin told them that for months after October 7, her husband,
    HaGaon HaRav Yitzchak Kolodetsky, 70 [years old],
    slept on the floor in solidarity with the suffering of the hostages.”

    SOURCE: MOVING: HaRav Chaim’s Son-In-Law Has Slept
    On A Piece Of Plywood Since October 7
    ” 2024 October 14, Yeshiva World News
    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/israel-news/2324433/moving-harav-chaims-son-in-law-has-slept-on-a-piece-of-plywood-since-october-7.html

    #2332944
    Kuvult
    Participant

    Bli Neder no Matza 30 days before Pesach unless the hostages are free.

    #2333451
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Bil Neder no lighting of Chanukah candles before the 25 of Keslev unless the hostages are free

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