Boro Park Eruv

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  • #596024

    shmooze1
    Member
    #760932

    There’s no problem, if you rely on the eiruv rav.

    #760933

    i am here
    Member

    My family does not hold of the eiruv. It is an entire shaila in itself. Its not so pashut anyway.

    #760934

    bpt
    Participant

    If you rely on the Eruv, you can rely on the backup.

    #760935

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If you rely on the Eruv, you can rely on the backup.

    I was thinking of saying that, but I don’t think we really need to consider people who rely on the eruv ????? ???.

    I like to think they are ???? ?????. Some clown misguided them into thinking it is legitimate.

    #760936

    shlishi
    Member

    isn’t the point of the backup eruv, to backup the main eruv? if you are in an area that is outside the main eruv — but within the backup eruv — you have no backup for the backup eruv, if the backup is down (unbeknownst yet to the public.)

    #760937

    2qwerty
    Participant

    So many people hold of bp eruv but flatbush eruv is the same halachicly.

    #760938

    bpt
    Participant

    “Some(one) misguided them into thinking it is legitimate. “

    I happen not to use the eruv, but for the record, there are numerous, very choshuve rabbonim who give it the green light.

    That being the case, the backup eruv is meant to do just that; back up the “main” eruv. Most likley, it was done to prevent sabotage from downing the eruv 20 minutes before the zman.

    And yes, there were people who did such a thing. I know, because I know. Fact.

    If you carry, you have on whom to safely rely on. But, the people who give the heter on the eruv, have a whole host of things they are machmir on (things, that many of us would sorely miss, if we needed to choose a new hadracha).

    All things being equal, I’ll stick to a 6 day carry week. The price for switching is too steep IMHO

    #760939

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I think approving the eruv de-legitimizes a rav, and I would not rely on him for anything.

    (And if you name names, I’ll keep on de-legitimizing, so don’t try me.)

    And I don’t know if it is muttar to be mazik to prevent chillul shabbos, but if it is, I would personally vandalize it. (And I wouldn’t even spray paint pictures. Hey, do you think it’s the same people?)

    #760940

    2qwerty
    Participant

    popa what’s your problem with eruv? majority of the rabbonim in brooklyn allow it. (I’m only counting those who made a firm decision about it)

    #760941

    Feif Un
    Participant

    2qwerty, that is not true. Where did you get the idea that most rabbonim allow it?

    #760942

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    majority of the rabbonim in brooklyn allow it. (I’m only counting those who made a firm decision about it)

    I’m convinced now.

    #760943

    2qwerty
    Participant

    The gemorah that I learn goes by majority not by who is greater as you suggested before.

    #760944

    2qwerty
    Participant

    feif un, ask any rabbi in bp, and flatbush rabbis admit that they don’t know enough about it and don’t want to make a decision.

    #760945

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    The gemorah that I learn goes by majority not by who is greater as you suggested before.

    The majority of rabbis are reform and conservative.

    This question was asked to an amora, if I recall. (That we should follow rov of the world who does not keep the torah.)

    Anyone remember the answer offhand?

    #760946

    2qwerty
    Participant

    you know I meant orthodox so why are you changing the subject?

    #760947

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Orthodox has no meaning.

    Are you counting YCT?

    #760948

    shmooze1
    Member

    DOSE ANYONE KNOW WHERE THE BACKUP ERUV IS?

    #760949

    2qwerty
    Participant

    lets say I’m not.

    #760950

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    So then you are already making judgments within orthodoxy.

    Why are you surprised that I am also?

    #760951

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Most Rabbonim in Brooklyn are firm that they won’t argue on R’ Moshe Feinstein.

    #760952

    The majority of Rabbonim in Brooklyn who studied the issue reached the conclusion that the Boro Park and Flatbush eriuv’s are treif.

    #760954

    david1999
    Member

    And you would be a gonev hekedish.

    #760955

    david1999
    Member

    Feif Un –

    “Most Rabbonim in Brooklyn are firm that they won’t argue on R’ Moshe Feinstein”

    #760956

    david1999
    Member

    Clark Kent –

    “The majority of Rabbonim in Brooklyn who studied the issue reached the conclusion that the Boro Park and Flatbush eriuv’s are treif.”

    #760957

    David –

    Why are you challenging Clark’s statement and not 2qwerty’s earlier statement above asserting the opposite?

    #760958

    SJSinNYC
    Member

    For men (for the most part), not using the eruv in Brooklyn is no big deal. For women, its a lot bigger of a deal.

    When I moved to Brooklyn I asked my LOR about the eruv. He held by it and allowed me to. Growing up with an eruv, its a lot harder to switch to no eruv than if you never grew up with one.

    #760959

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    david99:

    I was waiting for you to come by.

    I have never even heard of either of those rabbonim, but I am sure they are very wise and know lots of torah.

    They are not “the foremost rabbonim today” in America.

    #760960

    Was R. Roth opposed to making an eiev in BP? Yes, no one can deny this. Did he refuse to sign on the same page as the others? Yes, he wrote his own letter. Either way, in regards to all other issues, only Satmerers llisten to him. Both Satmer Rebbes strongly oppose the eirev. So to who exactly is his psak applicible for? His chasidim and talmidim. Not a large amount.

    How many people follow R Hershkowitzs psakim?

    It’s pick a your heter deal

    #760961

    yenta.morph
    Member

    popa_bar_abba

    maybe not in “America” ?? ???? but for those residents of BP who are not ????? ????? in Starbucks drinking ??? ??????? they are!!

    Tell me who is the “clown”?

    popa_bar_abba

    Sometimes a Bit Over the Top

    My family has a minhag to never be milchigs on pesach.

    I think it is a zecher for blood which was red as red meat.

    Posted 1 day ago #

    #760962

    Feif Un
    Participant

    Anumber of years ago, while I was in yeshiva, there was a letter printed against the eruv, stating that using it is chilul Shabbos d’Oraysa. It was signed by R’ Pam zt”l, R’ Dovid Cohen, R’ Aharon Schechter, R’ Shmuel Berenbaum, and others.

    #760963

    2qwerty
    Participant

    Many litvishe Rabbonim including those that follow R Belsky wouldn’t hesitate to send their followers to R Roth for certain type of shailas. Also, according to R Roth b”d brooklyn has enough mechitzas to be considered karmelis. I want to see how many others went all over brooklyn and said otherwise.

    #760965

    shmooze1
    Member

    For the second time, does anyone know where the Boro Park Backup

    Eruv is?

    #760966

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    For the second time, does anyone know where the Boro Park Backup

    Eruv is?

    I am not going to help you be mechallell shabbos.

    #760967

    yenta.morph
    Member

    The people who know dont visit the Coffee Room.

    And they do not tell anyone else

    #760968

    Perhaps the “backup eiruv” doesn’t even exist other than in some imaginations.

    #760969

    2qwerty

    Many litvishe Rabbonim including those that follow R Belsky wouldn’t hesitate to send their followers to R Roth for certain type of shailas.

    Can you back that up? I don’t think so. It sounds made up

    #760970

    2qwerty
    Participant

    tbt,

    Yes I can. Ask you own Rav, if you can rely on a psuk from R Roth and let us know his answer.

    #760971

    bpt
    Participant

    For the second time, does anyone know where the Boro Park Backup

    Eruv is?

    Forget the exact location, as its just that; a back-up.

    If your rov tells you that you can carry from point A to point B, then do so.

    Mine tells me I cannot, so I don’t. Backup eruv or not, and no matter how many rabbonim (and there are many) say its ok.

    #760972

    yenta.morph
    Member

    How many people follow R Hershkowitzs psakim? How many Mechabrim, Satmar included come to Reb Fishele Shlita for Haskomos?

    Perhaps the “backup eiruv” doesn’t even exist other than in some imaginations.

    2qwerty Kudos !! well said!!

    Reb Tuvia Zt”l sent to R’ Yecheskel ?????”? when his ???? was ?????? and he did not think it obligated the ????

    #760973

    2qwerty & Reb Yontel the male yenta: You both (same?) did not address my point.

    Why both Satmer Rebbes oppose it is not my point. My point is how so many people, who are not his chasidim or mispallim, may rely on his psak. The Satmerers follow their Rebbe. This is kulah shopping in so great an area as chillul Shabbos. Same with reb Fischel. Very sad

    #760974

    If no one knows where the backup eiruv is, how do people (as described in the OP) rely on the backup eiruv, in areas that the main eiruv doesn’t cover — that the backup eiruv allegedly does cover?

    #760975

    Both Satmer Rebbes strongly oppose the eirev Why ?

    If not because of halachic issues, then because of what issues? And why is the current Rebbes opposed to them, and signed against it?

    #760976

    yenta.morph
    Member

    then because of what issues? possibly because of issues like If no one knows where the backup eiruv is, how do people (as described in the OP) rely on the backup eiruv, in areas that the main eiruv doesn’t cover — that the backup eiruv allegedly does cover?

    Another possible concern was people carrying when the reponsible Rav no longer takes reponsibity (accepted a post in another city)

    You are wodrering about ???? ???? ??? This is your first instance of ?’??? ?’??? ??? Who is the most popular Hashgacha ??? ?????

    My point is how so many people, who are not his chasidim or mispallim, may rely on R Moshe’ psakim & use ??? ??????? etc

    You cannot convince me that he was ?????”? I am descended from ?????? ???”?

    #760978

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If no one knows where the backup eiruv is, how do people (as described in the OP) rely on the backup eiruv, in areas that the main eiruv doesn’t cover — that the backup eiruv allegedly does cover?

    I don’t expect anything more. I can’t imagine they are particularly concerned about carrying.

    #760979

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    In case you were wondering: Why is Popa being so negative and cynical on this thread?

    I don’t see this issue as a regular ??????, with validity to both positions.

    I don’t think this is a “ask your rav” issue.

    I really think that nobody should be using this eruv.

    If this was a machlokes among equals, or even among almost equals, it would be one thing.

    If Rav Moshe’s psak was unsure, and just being machmir, that would be one thing.

    That is not this situation.

    #760980

    shmooze1
    Member

    Reb Yontel the male yenta

    Member

    Members of THE Satma BAIS Medrash on 45TH ST AND 10 ave in BORO Park told me that half of them use the eruv and half don’t.

    #760981

    yenta.morph
    Member

    I have news!!! I dont care what a ???? ????? says or thinks!

    Here are 2 personal experiences with ???? ????? .I asked the Rav of my shul a ???? ?????? & he told me to ask someone else, If I remember correctly he named someone specific whom he knew to be ?????

    I asked a chasidishe Rav who had ????? by R Moshe Zt”l a

    ???? re a/c or time clock 2 areas where R Moshe Zt”l was Machmir. Here is the gist of his answer “according to my logic it should not be a problem but R Moshe Zt”l would asser”

    #760982

    yenta.morph
    Member

    The only direct quotes from Rav Moshe ( NY Times May 5, 1975) in the article are, as you’d indicated:

    You can’t wake up in the morning and decide you’re an expert on answers. If people see that one answer is good, and another answer is good, gradually you will be accepted.

    http://mi.yodeya.com/questions/5553/reb-moshe-feinstein-in-the-new-york-times

    I think the same applies to Reb Yechskel R Shlita

    #760983

    david1999
    Member

    popa_bar_abba –

    “I was waiting for you to come by.

    I have never even heard of either of those rabbonim, but I am sure they are very wise and know lots of torah.

    They are not “the foremost rabbonim today” in America.”

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