July 22, 2019 2:47 pm at 2:47 pm #1763120zephyr10Participant
Is a frum yid allowed to go on one of those birthright trips if he can’t afford a trip to Eretz Yisroel?
Are there any gedolim that say it’s asur?July 22, 2019 4:43 pm at 4:43 pm #1763239BneiBarakObamaParticipant
Find out about frum people that make exclusive birthright trips.July 22, 2019 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1763240bk613Participant
There are frum organizations that run separate men and women groups that use good hechsherim and keep the trips kosher. The non frum groups are not even remotely kosher in any sense of the word. The hechsherim they allow are not ones accepted by most, keeping shabbos is optional, and mingling between guys and girls is actively encouraged.July 22, 2019 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #1763254lakewhutParticipant
There are frum groups. You might even meet your shidduch during your tour.July 23, 2019 7:51 am at 7:51 am #1763400rationalParticipant
Is a frum yid allowed to go on birthright?
Of course he is, but he’ll be uncomfortable, out of place, and will wish he hadn’t.
Permitted, yes. Recommended? Very much no.July 23, 2019 9:47 am at 9:47 am #1763464GadolhadorahParticipant
Yes. There are multiple “Birthright” trips scheduled at different times of year that are geared to the needs of different segments of the tizbur. While mostly known for arranging trips for college age students (men and women), you can find trips that have mixed gender, separate gender, strictly kosher and shomer Shabbos etc. Of course, you need to due your own research and most important, speak to some of those who have taken that specific trip and if possible with the specific guides who you are considering on your trip. For those who have never been, a trip to EY can change your life, both from a spiritual and political awareness perspective. Good luck and I hope you can find the right trip to fit your needs.July 23, 2019 9:48 am at 9:48 am #1763469
Many of the Gedolim ossured any Birthright trip including the frum alot of the Zionist places they go to or men driving girls in Jeep’s during the frum girls trip. I went on the frum birthright trip twice once as a participant & once as a staff member & stopped going as on of the mashgichim hador told me it’s issue to go on these trips. The second trip I went on the men’s group & woman’s group stood in the same hotel for part of the trip & some of the men & woman were playing basketball together.July 23, 2019 12:04 pm at 12:04 pm #1763588KShomronParticipant
“Mashgichim HaDor”? That’s a new one for me.July 23, 2019 12:06 pm at 12:06 pm #1763586GadolhadorahParticipant
“men driving girls in Jeep’s during the frum girls trip”
I’m not sure if you are trolling or really think women cannot ride in a bus driven by a man……90 percent of bus drivers for girls yeshivos and for the bus lines on which frum women travel to work are MEN. The driver is focusing on the jeep or bus, not engaging with the women.July 23, 2019 12:41 pm at 12:41 pm #1763518lakewhutParticipant
Which gedolim?July 24, 2019 10:01 am at 10:01 am #1764641
I do not want to quote these Gedolim publicly but the mashgiach hador who I asked told me that Birthright is ossur because men drive woman in Jeep’s & didn’t like the Zionist places they go to like Her Hertzel etc. PS. I never quote psak from Gedolim in public as most Gedolim or poskim unless they give permission don’t want to be quoted as they pasken for the person asked & therefore everyone should ask his/her Rav before going on a birthright trip.July 24, 2019 1:32 pm at 1:32 pm #1764770yichusdikParticipant
Wow, visiting the kedoshim who gave their lives to save Jews. Sounds reprehensible. Could lead to, who knows, hakoras hatov or ahavas yisroel! We wouldn’t want that now, would we?July 24, 2019 1:33 pm at 1:33 pm #1764791Bshtei_EinayimParticipant
I personally spoke to a mainstream popular Beis Yaakov educator in the NY area. I was advised to absolutely avoid it – as there are many many issues. Sorry but I was not given permission to give out her name but the advice I received again, was that even the “Frum” birthright trips are problematic.July 24, 2019 1:34 pm at 1:34 pm #1764835👑RebYidd23Participant
Eli51, can you explain why the Jeep makes it assur for the man to drive?July 24, 2019 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #1764889
To RebYidd23 you would have to ask the Gedolim or mashgichim hador is Eretz Yisroel that question. In regards to the Bais Yaakov Director I don’t know if that is still the case but there was alot of exacturation as to what really happened on those trips. This is because there were many people whose rabbeim did not allow them to go so they went back & exacturated in the hope no one else goes as they felt jealous. Infact when the mashgiach hador told me I can’t go I tried explaining exacturations until he bought it the two issues above which in that case I had no argument & accepted his PesakJuly 24, 2019 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #1764903anonymous JewParticipant
What is “exacturation”?July 24, 2019 8:52 pm at 8:52 pm #1764933klugeryidParticipant
A perfectly calibrated hyperbolyJuly 25, 2019 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1764996MrSarahLevine613Participant
exacturation? is that a word? I googled it and YWN comes up!!July 25, 2019 8:08 am at 8:08 am #1764997MrSarahLevine613Participant
As you may or may not know — many organizations (OU for example) run birthright trips. Some are not religious and some — like the OU — are run “orthodox” but, on some of the trips, NONE of the participants are religious. That’s great — but it may not be for you. I have heard of birth right trips that cater to orthodox individuals. Not sure who runs them. (The other stuff about jeeps, and you asked a “certain unnamed gadol” — like much here should be ignored. You can go to another thread and see a frum woman who achieved professionally just being maligned in post after post. I hope Im not friends with any of these people — i assume im not).October 29, 2019 11:03 pm at 11:03 pm #1795508
Yichusdik, Mount Herzl is a Zionist military cemetery. Zionists fight in the Zionist army to promote or defend Zionism, not necessarily to save Jewish lives. In fact, sometimes, they fight knowing that they will be sacrificing Jewish lives, CH”V, whether for political or other considerations (more land, etc.).
Zionism, as we know, is anti-Jewish to the core, attempting to remake the Torah-based Jewish people into a new gentile Nation-State-based Hebrew people whose ancestors happened to have been Jewish. The Zionist army is obviously NOT a place of “kedusha”, in the Torah’s (i.e. non-Zionist) usage of the word.
So your characterization of those on Mount Herzl as “kedoshim” and “gave their lives to save Jews” seems “off”.
As well, your claim that visiting Mount Herzl could lead to Ahavas Yisrael is also strange. Would visiting a cemetery in the United States do the same? If not, then why would visiting one in Israel be any different?October 29, 2019 11:24 pm at 11:24 pm #1795656YechielBParticipant
Look into crowd funding on One of the Chessed websites. You can raise the $1000 for the ticket quick or however much you are short.
The word the Yid above was saying was “exaggeration”. Shouldn’t try to embarrass someone especially another Yid who Yiddish or Hebrew is his first language.October 30, 2019 1:37 am at 1:37 am #1795676jdbParticipant
Like many questions, this depends on who you ask. I know frum people who have come on trips with no issues. And there are clearly some who have reasons for concern.
Speak to your Rav, not strangers in the Coffee Room. Regarding Har Herzl, I must object to the comments above. I understand that some have a different hashkafa, and respect your right to follow your rabbanim. Visit there and see for yourself. Speak to the talmidim or Rav Shlomo Zalman. This is a very special place. A place for those who gave their lives for other Jews. Please do not be mevazeh something so holy over political concerns.October 30, 2019 9:39 am at 9:39 am #1795706chaim_baruchParticipant
The following is a quote from an article on Aish.com
“Among the rabbis who saw things differently, two come to mind: one was my revered teacher, Rabbi Yisrael Gustman, who, upon seeing the graves in the military cemetery on Mount Herzl, declared, “Kulam kedoshim,” “They are all holy martyrs.” Another is Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach. When a student asked the Rabbi’s permission to take a short leave from the yeshiva in Jerusalem to travel to pray at the “graves of the righteous,” Rabbi Auerbach told him that he need go no further than Mount Herzl, to the military cemetery. These great rabbis recognized that our brothers who went to war and did not return were holy. It behooves all those who remain in yeshiva and devote themselves to learning Torah, to bolster the spirit of those around them and aid in the national effort in any way they can. First and foremost, they must recognize the sanctity of the sacrifice others are making on their behalf, and the holiness of our brothers who have fought to secure their freedom to build and populate great centers of Torah learning in Israel – especially those who paid for these blessings with their lives.”
The full article
Link removedOctober 30, 2019 12:05 pm at 12:05 pm #1795758
I have no “political” concerns. I was coming from the perspective of religion, from the Torah.
There is nothing that makes Mount Herzl holy, or at least not any holier than any other Jewish cemetery which has a wide range of Jews buried there. Mount Herzl, however, does have the distinct disadvantage of being a Zionist symbol, in addition.
Again, the fact is that the Zionists are (at the very, very least) secular. Many, if not all, of the decisions they make in their army are very likely NOT what the Torah would want. Therefore, their soldiers’ activities following those decisions are, also, very likely NOT what the Torah would want. Therefore, there is nothing particularly holy about that cemetery containing the bodies of those soldiers any more so than any other cemetery with bodies of Jews.
Please see the earlier part of this post.
Aish.com has, shall we say, Zionist leanings?
Both stories seem absurd and, by implication as presented, are heretical.
If some Jews (let’s say they are secular and even heretics) go to war in, say, South Africa, and don’t return, are they considered holy as a result? Obviously not. Same thing in Israel.October 30, 2019 12:09 pm at 12:09 pm #1795773☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
That’s an absurd comparison.
Many of the Jews buried there died while protecting other Jews from attacks by Arabs. Therefore they died al kiddush Hashem. South Africa has no shaychus.October 30, 2019 2:21 pm at 2:21 pm #1795834
No, it’s a very apt comparison.
In Israel, SOME of those Jews in the IDF may have died protecting Jews. Similarly, in other countries’ armies, Jews have also died protecting Jews (and, of course, other citizens of their host country, just like in Israel).
So where is the comparable inherent holiness in, say, Arlington National Cemetery?October 30, 2019 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #1795892☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Is Arlington National Cemetery in South Africa?November 7, 2019 12:19 pm at 12:19 pm #1798321☢️ Rand0m3x 🎲Participant
died while protecting other Jews … Therefore they died al kiddush Hashem
Source, please.November 8, 2019 2:57 pm at 2:57 pm #1798652HabochurParticipant
I am planning on going this January with birthright on their winter trip There’s a organization called Ezra chemed that takes care of a frum all male trip. I asked my rosh yeshiva and he gave full encouragement to go and actually recommended other bochurim in my yeshiva to go. The trip is made up of yeshiva bochurim and I don’t see why it would be inappropriate to go
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