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🙂
yeah major. i taught my rebbe everything he knows.
Moish, the difference is that you are not fooling yourself. You know you should be inside, and you know it should be for the full time. The difficult part is doing so. And I wish you hatzlacha in doing so.
The others believe they are justified in being outside. They fool themselves into believing they are “done”. There is no growth there.
moish, dayo lavo min hadin, lihyos k’nidon. You can’t be better than them through a KV”CH.
Anyway, what I meant was “The fact that the brightest are among those out smoking for half of seder….”
Whoa boy! At quite an apropos time (where we are discussing multiple user names), I accidentally posted under someone else’s screen name (neleg). Sorry. The above comment (and one in Random Questions) is mine. The neleg character is someone who uses my computer (but I never knew that this person went on YWN – I’ll have to log off in the future).
oh good, i’ll repeat that in the multiple usernames thread. i’m sorry.
I’m very late here but I saw a post early this morning and I’m just able to come on the CR now, I didnt read anything since the second or third post in this discussion so I hope I’m not repeating anything
moish: kapusta, but at the end of the day, who is the one who had it easier? the guy with less pulling him away, right? so there’s not much that will prevent him from reaching what he’s supposed to. the other guy may be a lot greater if and only if he ever actually gets anywhere in life. it’s a lot harder for him to even make a tiny move.
a few points:
1. no one ever said life is gonna be easy, and if it is, is that what youre looking to do? make everything easy? (I could quote someone, anything worth doing is worth doing well) but you can say that for anything.
2. if there are two guys, one has more temptation than the other, if the guy with more temptation does what the other ones job is, and gets the easy job, then what did he accomplish for himself? and who is supposed to do his job?
3. compare this to a man and a woman. both have a yetzer hara in different areas. for the man its easy to say that dressing modestly is easy. for the woman its easy to say that not learning is easy. no one is talking about the commandments given to them so what does it hurt? does that mean G-d shouldve created only men or only women?
4. circumstances in life are not always very peachy, the point is to rise up and do something about it, one example is (or this is the story I know anyway) Zichron Shlomo Refuah Fund was started, when “Shlomo” died of cancer. I think I can safely guarantee you that the family was devastated with this, but look how many people are constantly being helped from this? its not easy, but g-d chose them for special work.
5. a little branch of my last point, G-d does not choose anyone for anything, only people who can handle nisyonos. Its done with a tremendous amount of love and just keep that in mind.
🙂
sorry for rambling 🙂
I just read through the other posts,
moish 1. whoever said that youre the evildoer of your friends can not tell you that for the simple reason they cant judge you, everyone does it, but that doesnt mean its right and it means from where you stand, you dont have to take it. the guy was never in your shoes.
2. to go a bit off topic here, not everyone is cut out for learning. the guy who learns an hour a day, is still doing something if, considering his current level, its an improvement. the idea is to improve, not to be a learning machine. many guys may acheive their goal of improving through learning. but it doesnt mean its the only way.
3. I dont know anything about your friends, but honestly IMO, you care more than most people who are not frum. I cant imagine that youre the one pulling them down.
🙂
sorry, you hit a raw nerve…
5. a little branch of my last point, G-d does not choose anyone for anything, only people who can handle nisyonos. Its done with a tremendous amount of love and just keep that in mind.
THAT is the one thing i HATE to hear. i simply can’t take it, listen to it or accept it. don’t even try, just take it back. sorry.
in that case I sincerely apologize. what happened to the rest? any reply? 🙂
kapusta, i know the person who told me that is an idiot, but maybe he’s right. (ok, he didn’t call me the root of evil, he just said i’m preventing my friends from moving up.)
which i think is stupid, but maybe he’s right. maybe they do look at me before they do things. so even if i don’t know it, they might be pressured or something. or maybe when i’m around they automatically do more wild things. (how should i know? i was never around when they weren’t with me ;))
i never thought of myself as the ring leader or anything. they get by perfectly fine without me. but i dunno.
moish:
a) about being the “evildoer” of your friends, I really find that difficult to be true, considering how much you’ve shown here in the cr that you do care.
b) I think I’ve said this before in the cr but I’ll take the risk of repeating it. The definition of a good jew is one who is trying to be a better one. What he looks like or does is irrelevant, he’s trying to improve and that’s what’s important. Life is not always easy and we can’t control things that happen to us. Our goal is to make ourselves better people through our own customized challenges. For example, like kapusta mentioned about ZSRF, I can’t verify but I do know of other organizations that were started by people who were given a challenge in that specific area. Two that I know for a fact are Shema Koleinu (started by parent of autistic child) and Hamaspik (started by mother who had 2 children with a rare disorder, their brains stopped growing at a young age.)
c) I am currently working my way through my own personal challenge right now and I am struggling with what I’ve been given. It’s really not easy for me, at all! Re: kapusta, point #5, it might not be what you want to hear right now and I can really understand that. Just take the thought and hide somewhere deep inside your brain to be pulled out one day in the future when be’ezras hashem this will be behind you.
~a~
moish whoa! saying youre preventing your friends from moving up and bringing them down is very different. 🙂
anonymisss good points, I wanted to ask you, now that we’re off topic already, how youre doing? 🙂
5. a little branch of my last point, G-d does not choose anyone for anything, only people who can handle nisyonos. Its done with a tremendous amount of love and just keep that in mind.
I could use a little of this myself now, I need some cheering up. I’m so giving myself away here, but my phone was stolen last night. I’m so upset :(!!! but, in classic kapusta tradition :):):):):)
now go back on topic… 🙂
I’m ok, better than I was but not yet back to myself. I’m still very much in pain but life goes despite my troubles. I’m trying. I actually went back and read all your posts in this thread yesterday for encouragement, thanks.
About your phone, that’s so upsetting! I hope you’re able to get all your important phone numbers again without too much frustration. Always remember, kapusta, God only gives people what they can handle. He loves you and wants you to be happy more than anyone else in the world! Good luck and :):):):)
~a~
anonymisss I’m happy to hear youre doing better! I’ll repeat if you would like to email me and talk, I’m here. I’m happy my posts accomplished something. 🙂
about my phone, I did backup assistant through verizon, so I also hope I can retrieve my contacts. 🙂
btw, lol and thanx for the :):):):):)
hmmmmmm… give me a minute and you’ll get a taste of your own medicine…
ok, but dont be too hard al tiftach peh lsatan…jk 🙂
moish, have pity on her? Please? She’s always so nice to everyone here.
~a~
except for me, anonymisss. you ever see her being nice to me?
it’s ok, i’m really a nice guy i’m not opening my mouth
I think queen kapusta has made a new friend… and btw, I’m nice to EVERYONE not just on the CR lol but on a more serious note I dont mind being screamed at I dont generally take offense, dont worry about me 🙂
scream all you want, I’m good! 🙂
moish, is she really not nice to you? or could it be that she’s playing with you?
kapusta, lol!!!! BFF (mods, that’s best friends forever)
~a~
anonymisss lol enough with the joking (although you seem pretty much back to normal) I really hope you’re doing better!!! now back to the joking…
if you ever foun a sponser for israel, find me one for a new phone 😉 I miss my other one :/
moish I dont think I ever screamed at you for the sake of screaming or screaming at YOU, maybe a while back I was hard on you but I asked you for mechila and I apologized (none of which you answered) what more do I need to do to get back into your good graces? 🙂 (other than my leaving the CR 😉 )
hey i never forgave you? sorry bout that. yeh of course i’m moichel you. not sure what for, but whatever it is it’s cool.
but forgiving is not forgetting 😉
ames, thanks!
kapusta, I am doing much better. I know this sounds so weird, but I think I’m doing ok and then either someone very kindly has to remind me about it and then….you could imagine what happens or even better, something doesn’t work out, breaks, or someone’s not doing what I want, and I just lose it!! Totally lose it!!! either crying or mad and I hate it! It’s so not like me, I used to be so chilled out about things. I was always the one who said, “It’s ok, life goes on,” or, “It’s not the end of the world,” or, “You’re more important to me than my….(whatever ‘you’ broke.) I give you my word, it’s so so out of character for me to be this way. I know I’m only reacting like this because I’m so high strung about this issue, still, and as much as I have somewhat resumed “living” (I actually laughed today, believe it or not!) it seems that I didn’t really get over it.
Sorry for rambling, and mods, sorry it’s long.
~a~
so the update on my phone… I activated my old phone for right now because I’m not gonna function without a phone but maybe I can wheedle verizon into sending me a new one cuz I’m such a good queen (I might give the CR as a reference :p) so for now alls well that ends well. 🙂
moish for my ranting and raving at you a while back (if you dont remember I guess that means next time I’ll have to try harder, jk) btw, very very random but I sensed a very melamdishe i in your moichel and not mochel… (told ya it was random or should I say ranDUMB) 🙂 and I’ll even put an old joke here that you just reminded me of because it seems anonymisss checks this thread and maybe it’ll cheer her up a little. 🙂
anonymisss I’m sorry if I brought up a sore topic, I did not intend to. I just wanted to make sure my new BFF is doing good. remember time is the best healer and in two weeks you’ll have more important (and much happier-yes that was a bracha) stuff on your mind and you’ll be to busy to think about things like this… It sounds like youre angry at yourself for being upset about it (that sounds awfully farmiliar, did you say that?) dont expect yourself to do inhumane things, its not practical to expect to go through something hard and bounce right back. youre allowed a certain amount of time for brooding and it seems your using it wisely. youre probably just high strung about this because its a sore topic and it bothers you that you cant get over it. remember Hashem wants you to be happy and He is doing his utmost to keep it this way and just know that this personal nisayon that you went/are going through can be a kaparah for many, many people (I’m convinced I brought Mashiach much, much closer because of my phone. and I telepathically cursed the guy out. hes got no chance ;)) but all kidding aside, you may have helped someone have their bakasha for a yeshua answered quicker or maybe someone avoided having a nisayon because of you, maybe one of your descendants, way down the line. but I promise you it was not for naught. Hashem was watching you every step of the way and Hes with you every second now keeping things going straight. I’m very happy to hear that you laughed today (was that the lol I got before? if it is I think you made my day!!!) I’m a firm believer in laughter being the best medicine and its bound to help you. 🙂 keep smiling :):):):):)
now for the joke… a husband and wife were talking one day when the mrs. mentioned a certain fight fought early in the marriage that had long since passed. the husband asked her why she kept on bringing up the same old fight?
husband: isnt your policy forgive and forget?
wife: yeah, but I dont want you to forget that I’ve forgiven and forgotten 😉
ok not so funny so for anonymisss I’ll just try one more, (sorry mods!!!)
mr. is reading the paper and mrs mentions a news tidbit that she hears on the radio that women usually talk 30,000 words a day, while men talk only 15,000.
mrs: wonder why its like that…
mr: what? did you say something?
:):):):):)
wow that thing is long, sorry mods 🙂
anonymisss: i’m so happy your B”H doing better!!! that’s so great!!!
kapusta: sorry to hear about your phone, hope you can get the numbers back!!! hatzlacha with that!!!
this topic is interesting-one of the reasons we eat a hard boiled egg on Pesach is because it represents klal yisroel througout the ages. With all the persecution we have endured throughout the generations, we remain strong in our convictions and loyalty to Hashem-just like the egg that becomes stronger inside when boiled.
But, I agree with some posts that we sometimes are a little of each, although I like when I’m being like coffee—have to work really hard on being like that in the kiruv world.
kapusta, WOW! you’re a real inspiration. (not just for anonymiss!)
Jax, thanks!
mepal, she really is!
kapusta, I really want to be sad I didn’t realize that I felt that way until this second when I wrote that, that sounds really bad. But I don’t want just forget and move on!! as if life is grand. That would be horrible if I just forgot about it forever as if it never happened!
~a~
moish- back to the entire hashkafa discussuion on page 3: when I read your long response post to all the replies you got, I kept repeating to myself “this boy is 16? this boy is 16?”. Seriously, I thought it was written superbly well and you expressed yourself extremely clearly. Plus- the hashkafos sounded very well balanced (in my opinion) and it was so DEEPLY HONEST and REAL.
I only got to skim through this discussion so I apologize if I repeat something.
I have 5 (long) points:
– you do not want to hear this, but I said it a while ago & I’ll reiterate: Hashem gives you the tools to withstand a nisayon. He will not test me with something there is no chance of withstanding. You just need to WANT to fight, to pass the test. You apply that will/desire, and Hashem will help you the rest of the way. (It took years until maturity set in & I was able to internalize and utilize this.)
– Regarding the person with greater desires: Hashem bestowed upon you greater strength to fight this desire and to channel it to do the right things. In this I can really relate. It is a constant struggle, every minute of the day. You win some, you lose some. But you have to keep struggling- it’s the aim of the game! And again- you have to WANT to do the right thing, and you have to make the starting effort.
– It’s said about everyone’s “pekel” that if we were all to take our package and put it in a pile and we were all called upon to choose whichever one we wanted- we would each take back our own pekel! As much as the next person’s life ‘seems’ perfect, believe me, it is not. As much as you think you know, you don’t.
This is big- very big. As the mod mentioned- maybe you need to speak to someone outside of the CR about this.
Whatever happens, I will daven extra hard for you to have the correct ratzon and Hashem should give you extra strength to withstand these very difficult nisyoinos.
areivim, I know your post wasn’t directed at me, but:
I don’t need to be better or more loved! I’d rather be the average Joe and not suffer like I am!! What do I need this for? and people say such stupid things, if it wouldn’t be so hurtful it can almost be comical.
~a~
anonymisss- I used to feel the same way. But- trust me you need that level of love from Hashem! Without it you’d be lost! And- YOU definitely wouldn’t be YOU! (as per squeak’s post…)
This is an argument of what comes first- the chicken or the egg. We’re all stuck between a rock and a hard place. Because in order to appreciate that love, you need to come closer to Hashem. But- how do you come closer to Hashem if you can’t feel that love?
This is the exact reason why I always say to first JUST DO IT. Do the mitzvah, take on the kabbalah, daven- even if it’s without kavana. Because just by doing Hashem’s ratzon/commandments you will come closer to Him. Then you can begin to feel the good stuff and then you can do the mitzvos with kavanah.
BTW, there are no Average Joes. Think about that.
There is a great story about the Ba’al Shem Tov.
A person once came up to the Ba’al Shem Tov with the following complaint “At times I feel so connect to HaKadosh Baruch Hu, and there are times I feel so far removed. During these times it is as if my tfillos aren’t heard. How can I always feel close?”
The Ba’al Shem Tov told this person to view his relationship the same way as a relationship between a parent and their toddler.
The parents want to get the toddler to walk, but the toddler has yet to do so in their life, and they really just want to be heald by their parent. The parent coaxes the toddler to finally stand up, and now requests that the toddler walk to them. As the toddler finally takes the steps to approach the parent, the parent is happy that their child is developing, The child however, wants to know why he/she needs to do this. After a few steps the parent picks up the child. The child is now euphoric, he/she is now being held by their parent. The parent is happy for what the child accomplished, buy also realized that by holding the toddler, the lesson has stopped. Development will not occur in the arms of the parent.
The Ba’al Shem Tov told this person that this is how he should view his relationship with Hashem. He should enjoy “being held” obviously, but he would realize that the most difficult times are the times for the greatest developments spiritually.
I hope this makes sense, it is almost 1am here in Yerushalayim
areivim, (btw, I don’t know if you read the first half of this thread to know what I’m talking about) Love? I’m really not feeling so loved. and I DO daven, every day, three times a day (and I’m a girl) and I thought I would feel better but I don’t. How could I be close to Hashem when I feel so hurt and upset about what happened? I’d rather not be loved or special. Thanks but no thanks.
squeak, huh?
~a~
almost 17, areivim! a few more months and i could drive (did i need to remind you??)
and i know i’m not krum 😉 but thanks.
- anonymisss said exactly what i feel about that. i have no interest in the world in suffering to be better. i’m ok be the average guy.
- i have no desire to play a game that i’m losing. call me a sore loser if you want. if i break an arm every time i lift a weight there’s no way i’m gonna lift weights.
- don’t try telling me that hashem loves me more than the good guys because i have it harder. they’re not out doing what i am, right??
- of course it kills that this guy said it. first of all, who the heck cares what HE has to say?? second, he doesn’t know what we’re really like. my friends make fun that i’m the spiritual one. and i’m the one who’s the bad influence?
as much as it kills me, i keep telling myself that maybe he’s right. not that i appreciate his idiotic words. and either way, it’s not on purpose. i don’t know what i’m doing wrong (first time i could say that honestly!) seriously, like i said, i’m the good guy. and i’m not even the loudest one. so why me??
moish, I’m not one to say anything at this point, that’s for sure. All I could say regarding your last point is that I know a group of guys that sound similar to you and your friends and the good guy in the group always gets blamed for things. Maybe because he’s the good guy people expect more from him? and the same for you perhaps? I really don’t know, just a thought.
~a~
JayMatt, I hear what you’re saying, it makes sense i think and I’d still rather be held. Anyway, a kid can learn things while being held, ex: talking. Besides how much “walking” does God think I can do in such a short amount of time? At what point does it end?
~a~
ames, when do i blame god? never. i just hope he doesn’t expect too much when he makes it this difficult.
anonymisss, the only difference between me and the other guys is that i care a little more. i’m actuaaly having this conversation whereas they would skip right over it.
areivim, (i kow you won’t be on until waaay later…) sure i want to do the right thing. you thought otherwise? and do i not make any efforts??
I think it’s amazing that you (moish, anonymiss,etc.) are able to articulate the way you feel about these things. I remember feeling the same way, but could never find the right way to formulate these thoughts.
I have tons of responses, but it doesn’t seem you want the “spiritual dogma” response. If you’re interested though, I have been itching a little to stand on a (very low) soap box 🙂
kiruv, is there something wrong with me that i do? jk- it’s just that i’m not self conscious over the internet. if you tried me in public the chances i would say anything like this are really slim. but you never know.
ames, i meant both of those. and the first one has nothing to do with me blaming god either.
kiruv, moish said what I feel. Chances are I wouldn’t talk this way in person, only here.
~a~
I see the CR functions rather well during my absence…;)
mepal and anonymisss, thanx for the compliment 🙂
anonymisss I just saw your question now. like I said before (meant to anyway) everyone has their own package (me included) it doesnt mean you need to think about it all day but that when you think about it, you feel bad, and ask Hashem for help to get you through it. I cant imagine anyone thinks about their problems all day and if they do, IMO, thats ridiculous because a person is supposed to serve Hashem through simcha (with a certain amount of allotted down time) and if a person is overcome with his problems, then how can he serve Hashem through simcha? (btw, you are allowed more “down” time because the problem is pretty recent, but I was hoping you would be completely better by now I wasnt in the CR for a while but I didnt forget you in davening)
I cant personally attest to this but its been said (I dont know by whom) that if a person was offered a tray of “pekelach” he would still choose his own. I’ll repeat what I told moish before, if a person is born to accomplish something on this world, and they dont because they prefer not to be tested, then what was the point of being born. another thing, I guarantee Hashem will compensate you in gan eden.
am I making you think about this more? if I am and this is making it worse, than I’ll stop here :):):):):)
moish I just skimmed through some old posts but I think its that if you’re being tested now, you have the potential for Hashems love that can be greater, but only if YOU work for it 🙂
kapusta, you want us to pretend we’re falling apart when you’re not here so that you could feel needed and wanted??
just like andy and opie did for aunt bee 😉
kapusta, you mean hashem only loves a guy if he deserves it? it’s not like an automatic thing?
mod please delete my earlier post Done!
moish I just got what you mean, I am way overtired.
Is that what I seem like? aunt bea? and you said I wasnt being nice to you so far… :p
I actually phrased it very wrong, I intended to say you have the potential for a greater relationship with Hashem and to be much closer to him. maybe its not now, but one day. this is happening for a reason and He knows what youll look like in a year and in three years and in five years physically and spiritually. maybe you have to go through something now to end up helping teens at risk, because you know what it feels like or whatever. (just made this up off the top of my head, 4 am and being very tired I think I’m still ok) about the automatic thing I dont think the love hashem has for his children is automatic, or maybe it is because everyone is loved by Hashem as long as their jewish, regardless of how far they went off. but the relationship itself is so much relating to Hashem, and the connection to Him, it cant be just called automatic. yeah, a father is automatically loving his child but there is love and love. 🙂
I just learned that we get tests to keep us living. Does that make sense? The reason we get a test is so that we figure out strengths in us that we didn’t know existed or to strengthen talants. We need tests to keep us on our toes. I think that’s what a teacher told us today.
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