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The hanhalah sees it a lot more than me. I just drive by once in awhile. If they cared they would stop it. Also, you are a parent in that yeshiva -I’m not. Your threat they took seriously because you would be the one suing. They wouldn’t take me seriously -I have nothing over them. Also, the parents probably know about it -why don’t they do something?
I agree that parents in the yeshiva should really be the ones to speak to the principal about the matter, but people sometimes tend to gripe about it among themselves, but never take it any further than that. Or maybe they don’t care. So as chazal say, “B’makom she’ain ish……” If they are not doing it and you are really concerned about the children’s safety, then pick up the phone, ask for the principal, introduce yourself as a concerned fellow Jew, and tell them what’s on your mind!
Also, I want to clarify that I never threatened the yeshiva c”v! I always try to make sure that my attitude towards Rebbis, teachers, and the hanhalah is one of respect and appreciation, and whenever I speak to them I try to convey the sentiment that “We’re on the same side – we both want what’s best for the child/talmidim.” As far as, telling them that they would be liable if someone were hurt c”v, that is said as a statement of fact and not a veiled threat. Attacking the yeshiva or the principal will just make them defensive and wouldn’t necessarily accomplish anything. As I said above “if you speak to them in a way which shows your concern for the safety of the kids rather than angrily or in an accusatory fashion, I think they will understand where you are coming from and take appropriate action.”
Wishing you hatzlachah and a g’mar chasima tovah.
To NYmom,
Being the pessimist that I am, I think it’s a waste of time. If I thought for a second that they might respond positively- I would ask them if they and their students want to take CPR, First Aid and Fire safety courses. Why don’t you call your son’s yeshiva and ask them how many staff and students are trained in safety? And if most of them aren’t, arrange for them to be trained.
Health: I’m sorry that you won’t even attempt to make the hanhalah or the yeshiva aware of your concern.
I think this is part of the problem. When people are not willing to put themselves out – even to make one phone call, that is part of the reason that these problems won’t get resolved. If everyone would think that what they do does not matter, nothing would EVER change! This is completely the wrong attitude!
It really bothers me when people are willing to gripe and complain about things, but won’t take steps to try and change things.
Whenever I see people holding babies in the front seat I usually approach them and tell them that, as a former EMT, I’ve seen some horrid situations where children were terribly hurt in such situations. If possible I give some details of what could happen.
While I am a former EMT, I can say that I have, B”H, never responded to a call like that. But in this case, I like to think the lie has a higher purpose.
The Wolf
Wolf:
In your EMT training didn’t you see pictures from accidents? I know I did.
If that’s the case, then is isn’t really a lie to say you’ve “seen” horrid situations etc.
WM: Kol hakovod for stepping in and actually doing something to prevent a future tragedy from occurring.
Wolf, maybe you can say something to the mothers who hold their carriages in front of them while waiting to cross the street?
Hi All! I found a few home safety tips specifically for bedrooms (geared more for homes with infants/toddlers).
* Do not leave jewelry where children could find it and possibly choke if they put it into their mouths.
* Perfumes, deodorants, makeup, and other such substances can lead to accidental poisonings.
* Belts, ties, shoelaces, and especially plastic bags can cause strangulation and suffocation. Keep them out of the reach of infants and children.
* Never place pillows in an infant’s crib, and keep the crib away from the cords of window shades, blinds, or drapes.
(From Howstuffworks.com Child safety: Tips and guidelines)
To NYmom,
I like the way you judge me up the day after Y”K! Maybe I’ve had past experience dealing with yeshivas. That’s why I asked you if you asked your son’s yeshiva if they ever got trained in different safety courses. I have a friend who collapsed in a yeshiva and no-one knew what to do. He is now permanetly brain damaged. I wasn’t there so I can’t tell you for sure that his demise was due to lack of first response, but that is my assumption based on statistics. I subsequently contacted the people in charge and offered courses. I got such a run around, it wasn’t even worth the effort to offer them in the first place. I didn’t offer them because of my friend- unfortunately this place has had quite a few sudden deaths and they still weren’t interested.
Health: I’m sorry that you felt judged by what I wrote above. I don’t know you and I know almost nothing about you.
But aren’t you actually doing just what you accused me of doing? You are judging all yeshivas based on your experience with one yeshiva.
I will quote my husband by saying that we need to learn a lesson from Yonah, which was just read on Yom Kippur. When something needs to be done, we shouldn’t rationalize like Yonah did and come up with reasons why we shouldn’t do what is necessary. Rather we need to just do what needs doing. And if they listen to you or they don’t, that is their cheshbon. At least you did what you know is right.
Although what you say about the courses has merit (especially considering what happened to your friend r”l), it is somewhat complicated for a yeshiva to work out all the details and arrange for staff/talmidim to take courses. On the other hand, it’s not that complicated to just tell someone in charge, “Please tell the talmidim not to play in the street. It’s dangerous and someone could get hurt.” And also not at all complicated for them to make such a rule and convey that rule to the students.
Hatzlochoh rabbah b’chol maasei yedechah and chag sameach
In the area where I used to live, I always complained that the shuls did not have AEDs. If I had money, I would have donated them, but I’m not wealthy and didn’t have enough to donate even one to my own shul. I used to say that the shuls will get AEDs as soon as someone has a heart attack and dies in shul, but I don’t know who would want to volunteer to be the one.
My friend’s father was niftar in shul. The next time I was in that shul, a few weeks after, I saw an AED. I just wish other shuls wouldn’t wait for someone else before they get them too.
haifagirl: Are you referring to this news story from the YWN homepage?
B”H Hatzoloh was there and had the proper equipment to help that man! It may be something for all shuls to seriously consider having as standard equipment along with the siddurim, seforim, and coffee pot. Of course, someone would need to train shul members in its use and they would need to maintain it properly, but obviously the benefits of having it would be immense.
“I would have donated them, but I’m not wealthy and didn’t have enough to donate even one to my own shul”
So here’s my question: if you’re not wealthy enough to donate even one to your own shul, were there others in the shul wealthy enough to donate one to the shul? And how did you determine this, as finances are not always as obvious as you might think. If not, then were there particular people in your shul that you felt should have donated anyways? What was your cheshbon about these people that was different about your cheshbon about yourself? Why do you feel “they” were somehow more culpable? Perhaps you felt “they” should have collected money for it? If YOU would have made the effort to collect the money, would they have refused the AED?
I’m not trying to be ornery, just pointing out something that really, really puzzles me sometimes. I hear people complaining, and these are almost always, without fail, those who do not do the work to get things done. In every case in which I have seen someone toil, volunteer, knock on doors to raise funds, make telephone calls for a fund raising venture, clean up the garbage from a public area, attend meetings and giving up time from work ($), proactively invite guests who could use good company and food, etc, you get the picture, these selfless people have NOT been the ones complaining and dishing out criticism. Those who care, DO.
Please realize that I do not know you or your situation, and it is quite possible that you invested hours of your own time into fund raising ventures, only to have your collected money turned down by the shul, saying they have better ways to spend the money, or no room for the AED, etc. Or perhaps they told you not to bother in the first place, that the device is unnecessary, etc. Or perhaps a hundred other things. So this is not really directed at your personally, but at the phenomenon of the very thick, heavy line marking the demarcation between complainers and those that actually care enough to do something. I used your story as a spring board for this, but realize that I am fully aware that you may be completely in the right in your particular situation, for any number of reasons. Forgive me for using the story, on its own, as an example for my topic.
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This story of contracting diseases from rat urine on can tops has been making the usual email hoax rounds for many years. It has proven to be without any basis, totally false. The disease Leptosirosis is real but is not contracted in this manner.
You can check it on Snopes.com
I’m waiting for the day Snopes will be disproved as well…
Do you know how many times an email hoax was sent around with the message “check it on snopes.com, they have verified this” was posted? Well, I check EVERY SINGLE TIME and 99.9% of the time, if not 100% of the time the information being emailed is FALSE!!!
Bemused: I made my views well known. Offered to contribute quite a bit (for me) if other people would also contribute. Everybody told me not to waste my time, the AED was something we didn’t need.
NY Mom: That story was what reminded me. Every shul (and every place where people gather) should have at least one AED.
To Rochelimeinu,
Sorry to inform you, but it’s not a hoax. You definitely can pick it up that way. The disease isn’t very common anyway. My advice is not to buy old dusty cans that have been laying around a long time and wash your cans before opening. Even though it’s not in my micro book, I remember my professor clearly stating this. He is an old and respected prof.
To NYmom,
What you say isn’t that complicated is- I first have to find out the name of the yeshiva and then I have to find out the guy in charge and then I have to tell him the problem. Actually giving a course isn’t that complicated. People sign up -you order materials, equip. etc… You get a location and pay the fee. The yeshiva has to get the people to sign up and collect fees. Their job is harder than mine. I could do most of this online, which is quicker than using a phone nowadays anyway, especially with all the answering machines. Even cell phones have voice mail.
Rochelimeinu – my mother makes us wash the tops of all the cans we open. I guess there’s a good reason for that.
To haifagirl,
It’s true an AED is something they don’t need because they will never train even a few people in its’ use. And don’t tell me you can use it without training, I know people in the medical field (not me) who have gotten shocked by accident and it was no picnic. (Not necessarily with an AED, but the same idea.)
All those Jews in shul and no doctors? You’d be amazed at how many people are trained nowadays. And the shul (and most of the other shuls in the neighborhood) had plenty of “first aid” equipment that is even more difficult to use than an AED. Ever try starting an IV?
As we celebrate the holiday of Sukkos, here are some important suggestions from the New York City FDNY to help keep the holiday a safe and joyous one:
- Electrical safety
- Check your wiring and extension cords. They should be listed for outdoor use and in good condition.
- Do not overload your electrical circuits.
- All electrical connections should be made by adults or under appropriate supervision.
- Follow all of the instructions and warnings found on all electrical equipment.
- Fire and burn safety
- Have a fire extinguisher handy.
- Don’t leave young children in your kitchen without proper supervision, especially when you’re using a “blech”.
(Adapted from Jewish Community Relations Council of NY http://www.jcrcny.org)
Thanks for the timely reminder, NY Mom!
NY Mom: Thanks. Can I add a word about fire extinguishers? Put them in a GOOD place. I once was in someone’s kitchen and they had their fire extinguisher so that you had to reach over the stove to get it. It should be in the kitchen, near the door, away from the stove.
It also doesn’t hurt to have one in the hallway near the bedrooms.
In your EMT training didn’t you see pictures from accidents? I know I did.
If that’s the case, then is isn’t really a lie to say you’ve “seen” horrid situations etc.
Not specifically that type of accident. So, yes, it’s still a lie. However, in this case, I’ll gladly take the blame.
The Wolf
don’t do drugs
Hi Mepal! You’re welcome 🙂
Haifagirl: Thank you for your addition! And now you made me think of something else which is tangential (not necessarily to do with Sukkos). Everyone should have working smoke detectors on each floor of the house! This is not just something nice to do – it can save lives!
…and also be instrumental in destroying your hearing.
Now, now, Mepal. Let us not be grumpy about lifesaving apparatus 😉
B”H my husband doesn’t smoke! I see so many frum guys smoking cigarettes, I don’t know how their wives can take it!
To haifagirl,
Actually, I would be amazed at how many. In my small shul, I’m the only one that knows anything about medicine and first aid. It probably varies greatly from shul to shul and neighboorhood to neighboorhood. Btw, just because you are a doc doesn’t mean you are up on CPR and other emergency measures. A guy could be a Psychiatrist and never have to deal with emergencies in his office. A layman who is trained would do a better job than this guy -in a cardiac arrest.
Health: You may be right about medical personnel being untrained. However, last time I renewed my CPR certification, almost everybody in the class was a doctor. There were also a few nurses.
Haifagirl: My husband davens in a local shtiebel, and they have so many hatzolah guys they have their own (unofficial) “section”!
I guess it all depends.
To haifagirl,
I’m not sure you got my point- you said -“Every shul (and every place where people gather) should have at least one AED.” While not to disagree with this statement, it should be clarified. You should put AED’s in places where there are at least one or two people trained in CPR and AED. It doesn’t matter whether they are docs or just trained laymen. You shouldn’t put them in Shuls without having trained people around. And just because a lot of docs are up and current in CPR, a lot aren’t.
If you choose to buy your child a scooter like a Razor please be aware that your child should always wear a helmet while riding it, as well as wrist-guards, elbow pads, and knee pads. The same applies to roller-blades, skateboards, and Rip Sticks.
Also, to consider is a sports guard for your child’s mouth. I know of a child who was riding on a Rip Stick and fell on his face. He broke a front tooth – an adult tooth – and now needs all kind of expensive dental work. Better to spend the money to prevent the injury than to have to go through all the pain and running around to different doctors afterward.
Another point about Razor scooters:
There is a rubbery foam that covers the handles that can be removed. If the covering of the handles comes off, DO NOT allow your child to use the scooter until you get something else to cover the metal tubing. My son was riding his scooter this way, fell forward, and the metal tubing caused a small gash just a half inch from his eye. He ended up getting stitches, but – chasdei Hashem! – it missed his eye. Just another half inch and c”v…
Health:
You don’t know who is and isn’t trained. So what you are saying is not to put one in unless there’s a guarantee that a trained person is always there?
Take this hypothetical situation: What happens if during a bar mitzvah, for example, someone needs the AED, but it isn’t there because there were no “trained” people who were members. The person dies? Too bad, because in that large group of guests who showed up for the Bar Mitzvah were 5 hatzolah members.
The point is, you never know when it’s going to be needed, and who will be around at that time. It’s better to have it and not be able to use it, then to not have it when it’s needed.
To haifagirl,
Technically, you are correct, but in a place like a shul, not their hall, if they go to the trouble of purchasing an AED they should at least have some people who are constantly there who are trained. Most shuls have regulars, they should make sure some of these are trained, otherwise having an AED will most of the time be defeating it’s purpose.
Hi, Everyone! Hope you all have a wonderful and safe Y”T!
On Simchas Torah, one of my pet peeves is when the parents are shmoozing or busy dancing during the hakafos and allowing their children to run amok! Please everyone watch your children in shul!
Teenagers can get carried away and get drunk – please speak to them before Y”T about what you expect of them before you let them go to hakafos hither and yon! But they are not the only ones who get carried away on Simchas Torah. The young children feel free to do wild and sometimes crazy antics like climbing onto and standing on a whole stack of chairs or dancing on tables. Also, sometimes pre-teens try to imitate the older ones and decide to drink alcohol. Please monitor your children!
Often older children are charged by their parents to watch the young ones. Sometimes this may work, but sometimes the older children are not watching as you may think! Know your children!
Also, waving flags on Simchas Torah is fun, but please be careful with those sticks. With toddlers/little ones on their Tatties shoulders or just stam running around, watch out for their eyes when others are waving those sticks wildly!
Have a great YomTov!
One good thing -Simchas Torah is good for business if you are a podiatrist.
Simchas Torah is good for business if you are a dentist! Did you see how much candy was being consumed in shul?
Actually, hard candy is not that bad for your teeth. Anything that sticks to your teeth -it could be candy or even raisins is very bad. I don’t recommend giving candy to kids on a regular basis, but once in awhile it’s not that bad. Cake/cookies is worse.
Health
Why are cakes and cookies worse? I would never have thought so.
mybat, yoshi: I am guessing that she is probably either an only child (so far) or yoshi’s oldest.
I had the same thing with my oldest children. I was very strict about no sugar, but once they reached school-age, you can forget about that! Between birthday parties, Shabbos parties, siyumim, and alef-beis parties, the kids have so much sugar available, all you can do is try to teach them moderation. My younger kids already had the sugary stuff available from their older siblings, so I have taught them that it is for special occasions like Shabbos or whatever.
yoshi, am I right? 🙂
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