chofetz chaim bkln- white shirt policy

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  • #600959

    wat does the oilum think abt the new white shirt policy in cc bkln??? i thought the main shita in cc was to not wear white shirts!!

    #862572

    mexipal
    Participant

    the roshei hayeshiva of cc brooklyn are great talmidei chachamim and are extremely dedicated to the mesora that chofetz chaim tries to give over . if they see a need to make a white shirt policy they probably know what they’re doing and probably spent many hours deliberating.

    #862573

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Makes sense to me.

    It is one thing for them to do in in kew gardens hills.

    It is quite something else to do it in Brooklyn. If it was affecting the community’s perception of them, I imagine that is why they changed it.

    #862574

    stanleyc
    Member

    Really? Going against the mesorah is acceptable if its so that the community will view you differently?

    #862575

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Depends what you think mesorah means.

    If you think it means to literally do exactly everything your rebbe did, then no.

    If you think it means to do what your rebbe would have done, then it depends on what you think your rebbe would have done.

    (Enjoy the outhouse.)

    #862576

    stanleyc
    Member

    Really? Every single cc guy ive ever spoken to seems to think that its yeherag v’al y’avor to wear white shirts. And the rosh yeshiva wouldve gone against the mesorah whenever it would be politically advantageous? I somehow doubt it

    #862577

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    Every single cc guy you’ve ever spoken to?

    I guess you haven’t spoken to the cc guys who wear white shirts of which there are plenty.

    #862578

    Shrek
    Member

    Flatbush is moving to the “right”. Any yeshiva that wants to stay in business needs to meet the needs of its community. If the community wants white shirt yeshivas and not colored shirt yeshivas, the yeshiva needs to accommodate or become marginalized. Sad, but true.

    #862579

    Working on it
    Participant

    I don’t get it. If the “community” is pro white shirts then they should dress their children in white shirts. It would seem obvious to me that if they are dressing their children in colored shirts, then that is what they want. Maybe the parents are sending their children there specifically because they CAN wear whatever shirt they want? Aren’t there plenty of other (right-wing) Yeshivas that have this policy? If the parents really want such a school why don’t they just send to those schools and leave other people alone?

    #862580

    shmoigeboige
    Member

    Aside from community perception they may also be trying to thwart the terrible pressure that sometimes develops from “fashion competition” there is a limit to how expensive or trendy a plain white shirt can be.

    #862581

    shmoigeboige
    Member

    Working on it – The Yeshiva probably doesn’t want to attract the clientele that chooses a school based on its shirt policy. IMHO it should be a very minor feature to be considered when choosing a place to send your children to.

    #862582

    Working on it
    Participant

    shmoigeboige – If that was the case, why implement the policy?

    #862583

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    Maybe they made this new policy because the girls want to date guys with white shirts and don’t understand that CC is a very good yeshiva, colored shirts and all.

    #862584

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Imaofthree:

    I doubt they want girls dating their high school students.

    #862585

    stanleyc
    Member

    Is theres anybody who wont attend or will leave their high school because of this change in policy? This all seems very petty

    #862586

    shmoigeboige
    Member

    Working on it – read my first post! It is a valid reason in its own right.

    #862587

    1st timer
    Participant

    If Chofetz Chaim in flatbush is really a Chofetz Chaim yeshiva, why are they called Tiferes Yisroel?

    #862588

    mexipal
    Participant

    maybe the kids that the yeshiva want get turned off by the colored shirts. maybe they want to keep up their excellent standards and feel they can’t unless they attract those kids.

    #862589

    Luke
    Member

    If Chofetz Chaim in flatbush is really a Chofetz Chaim yeshiva, why are they called Tiferes Yisroel?

    All of the branchs are independant loosly affiliated yeshivas.

    #862590

    soliek
    Member

    tbh i was a little shocked too

    #862591

    HaKatan
    Participant

    I never heard of this whole business, but the only reason I could think of to *not* wear a white shirt is *IF* by wearing a white shirt it makes you think you’re an automatic Gadol HaDor. So if by not wearing a white shirt you maintain a balance and sense of perspective of who you are and where you’re holding, then it makes sense to not wear a white shirt (until it’s appropriate for you). Same goes for a tie and suit.

    Imagine 4th graders coming into Yeshiva with suits on every day; it just doesn’t befit them, as nice as it may look.

    However, if the standard dress is now to wear a white shirt, NOT because of the above, but simply because that’s the normal decent dress mode even for teens, then it makes sense that they would require white shirts even if they had not previously done so. BTW, this could also be extended to ties and even suits, if that’s what the (non-“faker”/”macher”) norm happens to be.

    Just speculation…

    #862592

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    Popa bar Abba, I didn’t realize it was just a high school in Brooklyn. thanks.

    #862594

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    imaof3

    its not just a high school, but the rule is only for the high school. the bais medrash still wears colored shirts. how do you like those apples?

    #862595

    Jothar
    Member

    Why is there so much CC talk in the CR if it’s so insignificant compared to the size of the rest of the yeshivishe oilam?

    #862596

    BrainwasheD
    Participant

    The rabbeim there used to fight the Rosh Hayeshiva ZT”L on this issue all the time. 15 years ago they were saying that the only other yeshiva that allowed colored shirts was Yeshiva of Flatbush. I understand why they are doing it, with the shortage of parents with enough seichel to understand that wearing white shirts does not make one a better talmid chochom. However, it’s a sad day when a Chofetz Chaim branch is forced to change the mesorah to match shallow perceptions. And it’s a sad reflection on the Flatbush community that colored shirts are viewed in the same light as jeans. No wonder so many kids have a shallow view of Yiddishkeit- it’s about the shirt color, not the inner penmimiyus.

    Rabbi Harris’s sons all went “yeshivish”. One day rabbi Harris was sending a package of white shirts to one of his osns. He called them “Shabbos shirts”.

    #862597

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    If the minhag hamakom is that yeshivish people wear white shirts, then you wear white shirts. Unfortunately we live in a society where people will judge you by the way you dress. It’s a fact.

    #862598

    Bowwow
    Participant

    If all of the Yeshiva’s conform to the same standards then there is no reason to exist independently. Let the Yeshivas consolidate and eliminate staff, this will reduce expenses and perhaps start to lower tuition costs. Why pay for double staff it two yeshivos has similar hashkofos, share a similar derech halimus etc..

    #862599

    vayeitzei
    Member

    If shirt Color is meaningless, why not wear Color shirts on Shabbos?

    #862600

    HaKatan
    Participant

    Vayeitzei, the shirt color is NOT “meaningless”. Shabbos demands a more fine mode of dress than during the week. But for during the week, it would seem perfectly reasonable for a Yeshiva boy to wear a “conservative” (i.e. non-flashy) colored shirt.

    #862601

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    If shirt Color is meaningless, why not wear Color shirts on Shabbos?

    If pants length is meaningless, why not wear pants that are 5 feet long?

    #862602

    vayeitzei
    Member

    Hakatan: and going to Yeshiva does not require a more fine mode of dress?

    #862603

    old man
    Participant

    It’s ok to wear colored shirts on Shabbos. And Yom Tov.

    #862604

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Hakatan: and going to Yeshiva does not require a more fine mode of dress?

    More fine than what?

    As long as you acknowledge there is any situation in the world which requires a finer mode of dress than what you wear to yeshiva, you will have your question, and need to answer that there is an adequate mode of dress which is less than the absolute finest.

    #862605

    1st timer
    Participant

    I believe that just like girls have uniform, so should boys. The boys should all wear white shirts and dark pants. I think it makes for a much healthier environment when everyone is more or less dressed the same. I also think that if you dress like a yeshiva bochur you probably/hopefully will act like a yeshiva bochur. I don’t think that changing CC to an all white shirt yeshiva will hurt them at all, if anything, it can only help.

    #862606

    Bar Shattya
    Member

    Girls have uniforms because they dont have brains enough to dress tzniusly unless you tell them exactly what to wear. I guess that issue just doesnt apply by boys.

    #862607

    Shrek
    Member

    maybe if girls didn’t wear uniforms to school, they would be forced to examine how they dress.

    #862608

    Isn’t it interesting how all of the people who think it makes no difference what color shirt you wear, have very strong opinions about the color of shirts.

    #862609

    slave-to-g-d
    Member

    The decision was made after many years of hocking, and the roshei yeshiva met with the roshei yeshiva in Queens before making the final call. Tiferes Yisroel was loosing many of the best, and recently the second best, students from their 8th grade. I was told that the level of the shiurim has been slowly dropping for years. People are choosing other, similar, middle-of-the-road yeshivas that offer solid general studies because they are viewed as “shtarker”.

    #862610

    this is agenst the whole cc mission statment chofetz chiams’s sole purpose is NO WHITE SHIRTS lol as the Rosh Yeshiva ztl used to say “a branch that seceded from the union” well this one just did!

    #862611

    Like what imofthree said now a days people judge you by what u are weraing. End of story. When u see a guy wearing white and dark and his tzisis out u automaticlly assume their shtark even if 2 months ago he was the hock of town. Boys have it easier like that as opposed to girls who even with a pleated skirt can’t fix their reputation just by changing their attire. That’s what cc is trying to promote. They know that now a days yeshivish people are associated with white shirts and black pants– that’s the uniform just like an army segeant has his uniform and a fireman has his. And they want to promote themselves as yeshivis. So they turn it into a only white shirt yeshiva. It’s pretty simple if u ask mee.

    #862612

    cherrybim
    Participant

    In addition to the white shirt policy, chofetz chaim has instituted another standard: chofetz chaim will no longer accept bochrim into the high school who are not above the average; this applies even to boys who are currently in chofetz chaim’s own elementary school. This means that the lower level class for each grade will be cut and its students rejected from the yeshiva.

    #862613

    Loyal Jew
    Member

    CC is doing this to protect its bochurim. The “oilum” today holds that white shirts are for serving Hashem and colored shirts are for serving, um, others…. Bochurim who attend a yeshiva that allows colored shirts today will be rejected for kollels and shidduchim years later.

    #862614

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    In addition to the white shirt policy, chofetz chaim has instituted another standard: chofetz chaim will no longer accept bochrim into the high school who are not above the average; this applies even to boys who are currently in chofetz chaim’s own elementary school. This means that the lower level class for each grade will be cut and its students rejected from the yeshiva.

    I dont know if this is true, but if it is, it is a TERRIBLE policy to institute.

    ANY yeshiva that has such a policy should be chastized.

    Just because you are not as smart as others doesnt mean you are any less than others.

    #862615

    Sam2
    Participant

    Loyal Jew: It’s very possible that you’re right. How sad is that fact?

    #862616

    Flatbush Guy
    Member

    Why should they be different than Novominsk, or Philly, or other Yeshivos that only take the better kids?? Why don’t those yeshivos get flack?? Just because until now Chofetz Chaim had a gimmel shiur?? I don’t get why everyone is going crazy about this. Boruch Hashem, there are 3 new mesivtas opening in Flatbush for the below average scholastic child who wants to grow in his Yiddishkeit.

    #862617

    LIVEandLEARN
    Member

    Loyal Jew..

    I dont know if you know much about Chofetz Chaiim. But you’re statement about being rejected from kollels or shidduchim is irrelevant. Chofetz Chaiim all learn in Queens even after they’re married until they get smicha. So there is no need for them to be concerned about what other yeshivos do or think. My family is Chofetz Chaiim so i know enough to say this. As for the shidduchim, CC is in a way a club. They only really marry other CC families and stuff like that. So therefore in both arguments of kollel and shidduchim, it’s irrelevant. They dont care what other people do and the whole idea of CC is about mussar and growing from the inside. Just because a bachur wears a white shirt, doesn’t make him more spiritual or on a higher level. White shirt, blue shirt ext.. as long as you act and behave like a Ben Torah, we dont care about these shtusim.

    #862618

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Why should they be different than Novominsk, or Philly, or other Yeshivos that only take the better kids?? Why don’t those yeshivos get flack?? Just because until now Chofetz Chaim had a gimmel shiur??

    They SHOULD

    ANY Yeshiva who throws out students for Being Below Average Should get flack

    #862619

    AinOhdMilvado
    Participant

    “chofetz chaim will no longer accept bochrim into the high school who are not above the average; this applies even to boys who are currently in chofetz chaim’s own elementary school. This means that the lower level class for each grade will be cut and its students rejected from the yeshiva.”

    THIS IS NOT TRUE!!!

    Maybe it IS TRUE about the “Chofetz Chaim” yeshiva, but THE Chofetz Chaim HIMSELF would, I think, NEVER tolerate such a policy! I think he must be shedding tears in Gan Eden that such a policy exists in ANY yeshiva, especially one with his name on it!

    #862620

    momb6
    Member

    Why should they be different than Novominsk, or Philly, or other Yeshivos that only take the better kids?? Why don’t those yeshivos get flack?? Just because until now Chofetz Chaim had a gimmel shiur?? I don’t get why everyone is going crazy about this. Boruch Hashem, there are 3 new mesivtas opening in Flatbush for the below average scholastic child who wants to grow in his Yiddishkeit.

    The difference is once you have a successful gimmel shiur and then decide to close it for no reason other than trying to become more “exclusive.” Philly and Novominsk dont have elementary schools that they have an achrayus too.

    #862621

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    This discussion is first class retarded.

    If I understand correctly, this yeshiva has an elementary school, and a high school. Many students from the elementary school do not want to continue to their high school, and many from other elementary schools do want to go to their high school.

    If they have 3 parrallel classes in elementary school, and 3 parallel classes in high school, and those classes are the same size, then it would still not mean that everyone from the elementary school will be accepted to the high school. Many won’t even apply! And there is competition with students from other elementary schools.

    If they then cut the size of the high school, it just means that it will be more competitive to get in. But it was never a right of the students of the elementary school to be admitted to the high school! And many of them never even wanted to!

    This thread is ridiculous. And likely hotzaos shem ra. Shame on you all for badly about people when you don’t know a thing.

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