DD Muffins

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  • #608376

    rebdoniel
    Member

    For everyone’s edification- I walked by a DD store last night in Bay Ridge (not kosher) and on the curb in front of the store, I saw a box of Dunkin Donuts Coffee Cake Muffins. The box had a big OU on it.

    Can anyone give a reason why these shouldn’t be eaten?

    #933882

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Unhealthy?

    I would eat them. If I knew that store was getting from bakery certified OU. Assumedly, different bakeries across country may not be certified.

    #933883

    rebdoniel
    Member

    I’ve been saying for a long time that this is how they operate, over at DD, and people have been attacking me from left and right, despite the fact that many chashuve people in kashrus told me about this before I saw it with my own eyes.

    It’s quite common for kashrus agencies to tell you what kinds of ice cream, baked goods, etc. could be eaten in other establishments. Could it be that with Dunkin Donuts, they are reluctant to do so because they either don’t trust people to not get things sliced or toasted, or could it be that they want to encourage patronizing the kosher-certified establishments?

    I’d go with the first suggestion, as the OU already does this with dairy equipment products.

    #933884

    yaakov doe
    Participant

    Why not call the OU and ask what Dunkin Donuts products are under their hashgocha? They may produce packaged muffins with the OU to sell in gracery stores

    #933885

    In today’s world, having a hechscher is more important that actually being kosher.

    #933886

    rebdoniel
    Member

    A search of the OU Kosher website turns up just about every muffin and donut and bagel the company produces.

    What adulteration can possibly occur in the store of muffins and donuts?

    Bagels could be a problem because they have treif cheese bagels on the same rack as the kosher bagels.

    #933887

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    rd: Yes, we need to figure this one out, bec I really want to be able to buy at all DD’s.

    I emailed both DD and OU, to find out which regional bakeries are certified, and how to go about figuring out which stores get from which regional bakeries.

    #933888

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    Would you really eat a kosher product that sits unwrapped in a non-kosher kitchen, touched by people who are touching non-kosher items?

    #933889

    The reduced fat blueberry muffins are “wicked” and taste just as good as the regular blueberry.

    #933890

    mewho
    Participant

    so they display and sell the muffins in the same store with their non kosher items. which they may touch with the same hands/gloves etc…..i dont know about you , but i wouldnt have them unless they were individually wrapped and sealed at the factory .

    #933891

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    syag: I would. They are in trays, not sitting where they can be splashed. And they pick them up with a napkin. I would eat them ?????.

    #933892

    I’d mentioned this in a DD thread that was updated about a week ago. Yes, the product itself is kosher. But the majority of the stores are not, so unless you’re eating it straight out of the carton, you’re likely to be eating something that has been in contact with treifis. Same as with most of the frozen yogurt stores that are popping up all over the place. If you ask to see the packet the yogurt comes in, yes, it will have a hechsher. But how do you know what happens to it, who handles it and how, once it is opened?

    #933893

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    But the majority of the stores are not, so unless you’re eating it straight out of the carton, you’re likely to be eating something that has been in contact with treifis.

    I’m sorry, but that is ????? ?? ??? ???????

    #933894

    sw33t
    Member

    “But the majority of the stores are not, so unless you’re eating it straight out of the carton, you’re likely to be eating something that has been in contact with treifis.”

    “Would you really eat a kosher product that sits unwrapped in a non-kosher kitchen, touched by people who are touching non-kosher items?”

    When you buy a piece of fruit, how do you know that it has not come into contact with treifis? What if the man who stocks the fruit in the store touched bacon earlier in the day… then what????????

    #933895

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    seriously?

    #933896

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Very seriously.

    Have you seen a DD? They have donuts in trays on the wall behind the counter. They are getting cases of donuts in the morning, and they load those into the trays, and then grab them with a napkin and put them in your bag.

    What possible reason could there be to not eat those? Tell me the story I should be concerned about which would make them assur. As sw33t said, pretend it is an apple–would you not buy an apple from there and eat it?

    #933897

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I couldn’t even pretend that there’s a parallel there

    #933898

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    I think that is exactly the point. I think there is a gut reaction against saying that all DD donuts are kosher (well, all ones that get from regional bakeries that are kosher).

    It seems so funny to imagine that there is really all this kosher food all over the country that we didn’t know about.

    But I think that’s all it is. Because I frankly haven’t the slightest idea why you think I should be worried that the server’s sleeve hit a piece of bacon and then happened to brush my donut in a way that is nosein taam, and that the concern is strong enough that it makes it assur.

    #933899

    mewho
    Participant

    i wash and/or peel my fruits and vegetables.

    i dont think people wash or peel their muffins or donuts

    #933900

    shnitzy
    Member

    “Cross-contamination” isn’t such an issue because they have specific rules that if any product gets contaminated by another it must be disposed of.

    #933901

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    You’re not having the slightest idea why I should think it, has nothing to do with whether or not I am right or wrong. I do NOT mean this offensively but if I felt my words would be heard instead of dissected I would gladly answer you. Having you decide what my issues are without having heard them, and choosing to verbalize my thoughts as such a ridiculous scenario is very condescending.

    Once again, (a recurring theme) – your not knowing does not mean it does not exist.

    #933902

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    shnitzy – try observing for an hour and see what you see.

    #933903

    truthsharer
    Member

    The kashrus organizations are trying to make us forget that halachically we are not worried about half the things we worry about.

    #933904

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Syag: I don’t know what I have done to deserve that response. I think you are not being very nice here. Please go back and read the conversation. You are continually making only 1 line or 1 word responses exclaiming wonder at my position. And then when I try to figure out what you are disagreeing with, you say I am being condescending.

    I think you are being condescending.

    From your last line, I think I may have a different idea of what your objection is here, but I don’t wish to be condescending and say what I think it is. If you’d like to participate in this discussion, please feel free to do so.

    #933905

    shnitzy
    Member

    Sl: I have. I observed someone mistakenly sticking an ungloved hand into one of the tray sections. The entire tray was disposed of, although the person didn’t touch a single donut.

    #933906

    sw33t
    Member

    Does washing/peeling something make it kosher?

    #933907

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    This is not the first time you have belittled my comments (eg. I said you shouldn’t eat open muffins, you said that I think a man wipes bacon grease on them with his sleeve) and then called me ‘not nice’ for asking you to be more respectful. If you are not sure what you wrote to “deserve” that response, re-read it. Being sarcastic and putting me down is not necessary.

    Thank you for your permission to participate in this discussion.

    #933908

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    shnitzy – I’m glad to hear that. I have seen the guy from the back come out and rearrange all the donuts on all the trays to be in even rows without any gloves. I’d rather eat at your place.

    #933909

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I re read your posts several times. The only thing I can guess (I don’t claim to know, I am guessing), is that you don’t realize that your language is sometimes harsh (as you have heard from others as well) and that may be why you are not understanding were the responses are coming from. I will take that into consideration when I read your posts, and try hard not to respond, as you are so often offended when I do.

    #933911

    mewho
    Participant

    sw33t–not funny. it cleans off someones shmutz or bacon grease that they may have on their hands when they touch the item.

    #933912

    rebdoniel
    Member

    Most DD places are operated by Muslims, making the bacon grease on donuts scenario not too likely.

    PBA, If you go to the OUKosher website and search Dunkin Donuts, they tell you which are kosher.

    #933913

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    How can one be sure that they only use the kosher muffins? Are they contractually proscribed from using muffins from elsewhere?

    #933914

    sw33t
    Member

    but does washing off the bacon grease make it no longer treif???? real question.

    #933915

    rebdoniel
    Member

    The question we need to figure out is which stores get muffins from where.

    The OUKosher website lists different facilities for different kinds of muffins under their supervision.

    #933916

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    DY – yes, they are contractually prescribed to follow the ways of the chain but sometimes they run out of things and in a pinch will borrow from a ‘neighbor’ til they can get more.

    #933917

    Dovnyc
    Member

    Even if they receive the muffins or donuts from a kosher bakery, who is to say with certainty that they don’t have another supplier that isn’t kosher?

    #933918

    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    Ok, so that is a different concern; ie., whether we should be concerned that they will sometimes sell from a different supplier.

    I am not concerned for that. DD taste different from other donuts. Consumers would know. They would not do that.

    #933919

    rebdoniel
    Member

    There is also an inyan of non-Jewish merchants not wanting to ruin their business by doing something uncouth.

    #933920

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    I also assumed that about the donuts, which is why I asked about muffins.

    #933921

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    how do u know that a worker didnt switch a muffin 4 a non kosher one?

    #933922

    truthsharer
    Member

    Why would you think a worker would switch a muffin for a non-kosher one?

    #933924

    Ðash®
    Participant

    Bagels could be a problem because they have treif cheese bagels on the same rack as the kosher bagels.

    It may not be as bad as I said on the other thread, the OU lists “Jalapeno Cheddar Raw Dough” as being Parve. I still don’t know if all the bakeries get the fake cheddar of just the Kosher ones.

    #933925

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Truthsharer,

    If they ran out, maybe they would.

    #933926

    truthsharer
    Member

    No, they wouldn’t. They would just put up a “Sorry, no more muffins.”

    To do otherwise would be risking their entire business.

    Other than the government, you don’t mess with a franchiser. They will destroy you if you cross them.

    #933927

    Dovnyc
    Member

    There is only a very small risk of the franchise finding out if it is done, especially if it is infrequent. Besides that, “business risk” is not a halachicly sufficient barrior to ensure the reliability of the kashrus.

    In a similar vein, there is a reason that halacha demands that even if a non-Jew simply DELIVERS meat or wine (that was fully prepared by Jews) it must be double-sealed since we don’t trust a non-Jew and suspect he may have changed the food to non-Kosher simply to spite the Jew. There he has even less incentive to switch it than in this scenario.

    #933928

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Dovnyc,

    “business risk” is not a halachicly sufficient barrior to ensure the reliability of the kashrus.

    Yes it is. See R’ma Y.D. 114-5

    halacha demands that even if a non-Jew simply DELIVERS meat or wine (that was fully prepared by Jews) it must be double-sealed

    That din does not apply to baked goods.

    My previous comments were not meant from a strictly halachic perspective, I was just pointing out why someone might be more comfortable buying from a store with a hechsher, or buying sealed items.

    On a side note, why does your posting style seem so familiar?

    #933929

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    ooooh, you’re right!

    #933930

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant

    Syag, you knew that R’ma?

    #933931

    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    I wish I was so knowledgeable. I meant your last line (or did you know that and you’re just teasing me?)

    #933932

    ☕ DaasYochid ☕
    Participant
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