February 27, 2013 4:30 pm at 4:30 pm #608376
For everyone’s edification- I walked by a DD store last night in Bay Ridge (not kosher) and on the curb in front of the store, I saw a box of Dunkin Donuts Coffee Cake Muffins. The box had a big OU on it.
Can anyone give a reason why these shouldn’t be eaten?February 27, 2013 4:37 pm at 4:37 pm #933882
I would eat them. If I knew that store was getting from bakery certified OU. Assumedly, different bakeries across country may not be certified.February 27, 2013 4:45 pm at 4:45 pm #933883
I’ve been saying for a long time that this is how they operate, over at DD, and people have been attacking me from left and right, despite the fact that many chashuve people in kashrus told me about this before I saw it with my own eyes.
It’s quite common for kashrus agencies to tell you what kinds of ice cream, baked goods, etc. could be eaten in other establishments. Could it be that with Dunkin Donuts, they are reluctant to do so because they either don’t trust people to not get things sliced or toasted, or could it be that they want to encourage patronizing the kosher-certified establishments?
I’d go with the first suggestion, as the OU already does this with dairy equipment products.February 27, 2013 4:58 pm at 4:58 pm #933884
Why not call the OU and ask what Dunkin Donuts products are under their hashgocha? They may produce packaged muffins with the OU to sell in gracery storesFebruary 27, 2013 5:12 pm at 5:12 pm #933885
In today’s world, having a hechscher is more important that actually being kosher.February 27, 2013 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #933886
A search of the OU Kosher website turns up just about every muffin and donut and bagel the company produces.
What adulteration can possibly occur in the store of muffins and donuts?
Bagels could be a problem because they have treif cheese bagels on the same rack as the kosher bagels.February 27, 2013 6:21 pm at 6:21 pm #933887
rd: Yes, we need to figure this one out, bec I really want to be able to buy at all DD’s.
I emailed both DD and OU, to find out which regional bakeries are certified, and how to go about figuring out which stores get from which regional bakeries.February 27, 2013 6:26 pm at 6:26 pm #933888
Would you really eat a kosher product that sits unwrapped in a non-kosher kitchen, touched by people who are touching non-kosher items?February 27, 2013 6:29 pm at 6:29 pm #933889
The reduced fat blueberry muffins are “wicked” and taste just as good as the regular blueberry.February 27, 2013 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #933890
so they display and sell the muffins in the same store with their non kosher items. which they may touch with the same hands/gloves etc…..i dont know about you , but i wouldnt have them unless they were individually wrapped and sealed at the factory .February 27, 2013 6:33 pm at 6:33 pm #933891
syag: I would. They are in trays, not sitting where they can be splashed. And they pick them up with a napkin. I would eat them ?????.February 27, 2013 6:51 pm at 6:51 pm #933892
A Woman Outside BrooklynParticipant
I’d mentioned this in a DD thread that was updated about a week ago. Yes, the product itself is kosher. But the majority of the stores are not, so unless you’re eating it straight out of the carton, you’re likely to be eating something that has been in contact with treifis. Same as with most of the frozen yogurt stores that are popping up all over the place. If you ask to see the packet the yogurt comes in, yes, it will have a hechsher. But how do you know what happens to it, who handles it and how, once it is opened?February 27, 2013 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #933893
But the majority of the stores are not, so unless you’re eating it straight out of the carton, you’re likely to be eating something that has been in contact with treifis.
I’m sorry, but that is ????? ?? ??? ???????February 27, 2013 8:58 pm at 8:58 pm #933894
“But the majority of the stores are not, so unless you’re eating it straight out of the carton, you’re likely to be eating something that has been in contact with treifis.”
“Would you really eat a kosher product that sits unwrapped in a non-kosher kitchen, touched by people who are touching non-kosher items?”
When you buy a piece of fruit, how do you know that it has not come into contact with treifis? What if the man who stocks the fruit in the store touched bacon earlier in the day… then what????????February 27, 2013 9:24 pm at 9:24 pm #933895
seriously?February 27, 2013 9:27 pm at 9:27 pm #933896
Have you seen a DD? They have donuts in trays on the wall behind the counter. They are getting cases of donuts in the morning, and they load those into the trays, and then grab them with a napkin and put them in your bag.
What possible reason could there be to not eat those? Tell me the story I should be concerned about which would make them assur. As sw33t said, pretend it is an apple–would you not buy an apple from there and eat it?February 27, 2013 9:33 pm at 9:33 pm #933897
I couldn’t even pretend that there’s a parallel thereFebruary 27, 2013 9:43 pm at 9:43 pm #933898
I think that is exactly the point. I think there is a gut reaction against saying that all DD donuts are kosher (well, all ones that get from regional bakeries that are kosher).
It seems so funny to imagine that there is really all this kosher food all over the country that we didn’t know about.
But I think that’s all it is. Because I frankly haven’t the slightest idea why you think I should be worried that the server’s sleeve hit a piece of bacon and then happened to brush my donut in a way that is nosein taam, and that the concern is strong enough that it makes it assur.February 27, 2013 9:44 pm at 9:44 pm #933899
i wash and/or peel my fruits and vegetables.
i dont think people wash or peel their muffins or donutsFebruary 27, 2013 9:45 pm at 9:45 pm #933900
“Cross-contamination” isn’t such an issue because they have specific rules that if any product gets contaminated by another it must be disposed of.February 27, 2013 9:50 pm at 9:50 pm #933901
You’re not having the slightest idea why I should think it, has nothing to do with whether or not I am right or wrong. I do NOT mean this offensively but if I felt my words would be heard instead of dissected I would gladly answer you. Having you decide what my issues are without having heard them, and choosing to verbalize my thoughts as such a ridiculous scenario is very condescending.
Once again, (a recurring theme) – your not knowing does not mean it does not exist.February 27, 2013 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #933902
shnitzy – try observing for an hour and see what you see.February 27, 2013 9:52 pm at 9:52 pm #933903
The kashrus organizations are trying to make us forget that halachically we are not worried about half the things we worry about.February 27, 2013 9:58 pm at 9:58 pm #933904
Syag: I don’t know what I have done to deserve that response. I think you are not being very nice here. Please go back and read the conversation. You are continually making only 1 line or 1 word responses exclaiming wonder at my position. And then when I try to figure out what you are disagreeing with, you say I am being condescending.
I think you are being condescending.
From your last line, I think I may have a different idea of what your objection is here, but I don’t wish to be condescending and say what I think it is. If you’d like to participate in this discussion, please feel free to do so.February 27, 2013 9:59 pm at 9:59 pm #933905
Sl: I have. I observed someone mistakenly sticking an ungloved hand into one of the tray sections. The entire tray was disposed of, although the person didn’t touch a single donut.February 27, 2013 10:01 pm at 10:01 pm #933906
Does washing/peeling something make it kosher?February 27, 2013 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #933907
This is not the first time you have belittled my comments (eg. I said you shouldn’t eat open muffins, you said that I think a man wipes bacon grease on them with his sleeve) and then called me ‘not nice’ for asking you to be more respectful. If you are not sure what you wrote to “deserve” that response, re-read it. Being sarcastic and putting me down is not necessary.
Thank you for your permission to participate in this discussion.February 27, 2013 10:12 pm at 10:12 pm #933908
shnitzy – I’m glad to hear that. I have seen the guy from the back come out and rearrange all the donuts on all the trays to be in even rows without any gloves. I’d rather eat at your place.February 27, 2013 10:15 pm at 10:15 pm #933909
I re read your posts several times. The only thing I can guess (I don’t claim to know, I am guessing), is that you don’t realize that your language is sometimes harsh (as you have heard from others as well) and that may be why you are not understanding were the responses are coming from. I will take that into consideration when I read your posts, and try hard not to respond, as you are so often offended when I do.February 27, 2013 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #933911
sw33t–not funny. it cleans off someones shmutz or bacon grease that they may have on their hands when they touch the item.February 28, 2013 12:29 am at 12:29 am #933912
Most DD places are operated by Muslims, making the bacon grease on donuts scenario not too likely.
PBA, If you go to the OUKosher website and search Dunkin Donuts, they tell you which are kosher.February 28, 2013 12:35 am at 12:35 am #933913
How can one be sure that they only use the kosher muffins? Are they contractually proscribed from using muffins from elsewhere?February 28, 2013 12:36 am at 12:36 am #933914
but does washing off the bacon grease make it no longer treif???? real question.February 28, 2013 12:51 am at 12:51 am #933915
The question we need to figure out is which stores get muffins from where.
The OUKosher website lists different facilities for different kinds of muffins under their supervision.February 28, 2013 12:57 am at 12:57 am #933916
DY – yes, they are contractually prescribed to follow the ways of the chain but sometimes they run out of things and in a pinch will borrow from a ‘neighbor’ til they can get more.February 28, 2013 12:57 am at 12:57 am #933917
Even if they receive the muffins or donuts from a kosher bakery, who is to say with certainty that they don’t have another supplier that isn’t kosher?February 28, 2013 1:10 am at 1:10 am #933918
Ok, so that is a different concern; ie., whether we should be concerned that they will sometimes sell from a different supplier.
I am not concerned for that. DD taste different from other donuts. Consumers would know. They would not do that.February 28, 2013 1:13 am at 1:13 am #933919
There is also an inyan of non-Jewish merchants not wanting to ruin their business by doing something uncouth.February 28, 2013 1:15 am at 1:15 am #933920
I also assumed that about the donuts, which is why I asked about muffins.February 28, 2013 1:24 am at 1:24 am #933921
how do u know that a worker didnt switch a muffin 4 a non kosher one?February 28, 2013 1:39 am at 1:39 am #933922
Why would you think a worker would switch a muffin for a non-kosher one?February 28, 2013 1:49 am at 1:49 am #933924
Bagels could be a problem because they have treif cheese bagels on the same rack as the kosher bagels.
It may not be as bad as I said on the other thread, the OU lists “Jalapeno Cheddar Raw Dough” as being Parve. I still don’t know if all the bakeries get the fake cheddar of just the Kosher ones.February 28, 2013 2:36 am at 2:36 am #933925
If they ran out, maybe they would.February 28, 2013 3:27 am at 3:27 am #933926
No, they wouldn’t. They would just put up a “Sorry, no more muffins.”
To do otherwise would be risking their entire business.
Other than the government, you don’t mess with a franchiser. They will destroy you if you cross them.February 28, 2013 3:49 am at 3:49 am #933927
There is only a very small risk of the franchise finding out if it is done, especially if it is infrequent. Besides that, “business risk” is not a halachicly sufficient barrior to ensure the reliability of the kashrus.
In a similar vein, there is a reason that halacha demands that even if a non-Jew simply DELIVERS meat or wine (that was fully prepared by Jews) it must be double-sealed since we don’t trust a non-Jew and suspect he may have changed the food to non-Kosher simply to spite the Jew. There he has even less incentive to switch it than in this scenario.February 28, 2013 4:09 am at 4:09 am #933928
“business risk” is not a halachicly sufficient barrior to ensure the reliability of the kashrus.
Yes it is. See R’ma Y.D. 114-5
halacha demands that even if a non-Jew simply DELIVERS meat or wine (that was fully prepared by Jews) it must be double-sealed
That din does not apply to baked goods.
My previous comments were not meant from a strictly halachic perspective, I was just pointing out why someone might be more comfortable buying from a store with a hechsher, or buying sealed items.
On a side note, why does your posting style seem so familiar?February 28, 2013 4:14 am at 4:14 am #933929
ooooh, you’re right!February 28, 2013 4:22 am at 4:22 am #933930
Syag, you knew that R’ma?February 28, 2013 4:31 am at 4:31 am #933931
I wish I was so knowledgeable. I meant your last line (or did you know that and you’re just teasing me?)February 28, 2013 5:04 am at 5:04 am #933932
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