Defunding Police

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  • #1884381
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    Actually they could
    President Trump has offered Federal assistance more then once and the Mayors of Chicago, Atlanta, Portland, & New York have all turned it down in favor of continuing the vandalism.

    #1884458
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ben,
    This was discussed on the thread about the Sixties. Those cities are capable of containing the unrest on their own. Bringing in Federal agents is probably a bad idea. Oncwe you mentioned it, what is going on in Portland?

    #1884815
    Ben Levi
    Participant

    if the cities were capable then they should do it.

    As for whats going on in Portland.
    Are you asking me to be a news service?

    #1884873
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“This was discussed on the thread about the Sixties. Those cities are capable of containing the unrest on their own.”

    IDK about Now, but I posted in that Topic, that it took the National Guard to quell those riots.
    It might be that the cops in those cities, actually could Stop the Rioting, but the Governors & the Mayors are Putting handcuffs on them!

    #1884909
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Ben,
    They should. Once a mayor commits to protecting the city, in the current climate it could rapidly become uncontrollable. Some cities think they cannot or will not deal correctly with possible escalations, so they sit tight. Some (Ahem!) mayors are control freaks, and the idea of having a to admit they are losing and then regaining control, terrifies them.

    I was asking if you are advocating for Federal Agents, like Portland has. I have no idea how it is helping. And it seems to be at least borderline unconstitutional. Is it a dress rehearsal?

    #1884998
    2scents
    Participant

    “I was asking if you are advocating for Federal Agents, like Portland has. I have no idea how it is helping. And it seems to be at least borderline unconstitutional. Is it a dress rehearsal?”

    It seems like they are vandalizing federal property. Now, I am not sure if that changes anything from a legal perspective. But at least some can understand as to why the federal government is getting involved.

    Furthermore, if the population is being threatened by vandalists and looters, and the local municipality and the state are refusing to take action, while it might not change much legally, it would seem justified for the feds to move in and establish normal order.

    #1884982
    som1
    Participant

    nomeorah-” Some (Ahem!) mayors are control freaks, and the idea of having a to admit they are losing and then regaining control, terrifies them.”
    what stupidity, if you dont want a bunch of rioters and antifa anarchist looting and shooting up your city your a control freak !!

    #1885234
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Som,
    You misunderstood. i was criticizing a certain mayor.

    PS Are we back to the obsession with punk rock? (i. e. What does Antifa have to do with anything.)

    #1885337
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“I was asking if you are advocating for Federal Agents, like Portland has. I have no idea how it is helping. And it seems to be at least borderline unconstitutional.”

    There’s nothing unconstitutional about sending in Federal units. Actually they were sent in to protect the US courthouse.
    The Oregon AG, a lib Jew, & their Governor are claiming that they are arresting people Not near the Court House.
    This is the only legal grounds they have to stand on!
    Let’s See the Proof.

    #1885343
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Health,
    It definitely seems as though they are pulling suspects off the streets throughout the city, not just by the courthouse. There is extensive video evidence for this.
    I don’t know whether or not the actions taken by Homeland Security are constitutional or not, but the tactics being used definitely scare me. people being pulled off the streets into unmarked vehicles by soldiers in gas masks definitely doesn’t sound like the America I know. At least paint the name of the organization to which the vehicle belongs to on the vehicle.
    And spraying teargas at people simply chanting slogans? this is not even unique to the feds. in the beginning of the protests i saw live video of people being teargassed for protesting after curfew. Why was that necessary? in many big cities, Dallas for example, police simply arrested 100’s of protesters, loaded them on buses and drove them to the station. So then why the need to teargas peaceful protesters?
    Very scary.
    I hope Trump did not push for the army to use these scare tactics as this will definitely change my perception of him.

    #1885548
    som1
    Participant

    no mesorah- “Dear Som,
    You misunderstood. i was criticizing a certain mayor.

    PS Are we back to the obsession with punk rock? (i. e. What does Antifa have to do with anything.)”
    WHICH MAYOR ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
    ANTIFA ANARCHIST ARE IN THE CITY’S RIOTING AND LOOTING!!! THAT’S WHAT THEY HAVE TO DO WITH

    #1885654
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Psssst. Deblasio.

    PS Antifa is the equivalent to the martial arts in the punk world. They generally hold leftists views. Rioting and looting is as much part of their lore as the Boy Scouts’.

    #1885672
    Health
    Participant

    DMB -“It definitely seems as though they are pulling suspects off the streets throughout the city, not just by the courthouse. There is extensive video evidence for this.”

    If they are doing something wrong – they be held accountable. I doubt that they are breaking any Law!
    It’s just the Liberal politicians trying to get some Publicity!

    “I don’t know whether or not the actions taken by Homeland Security are constitutional or not, but the tactics being used definitely scare me.”

    That’s the purpose of Law enforcement.
    Up to the 50’s – 60’s, e/o was scared of COPS.

    “And spraying teargas at people simply chanting slogans? this is not even unique to the feds. in the beginning of the protests i saw live video of people being teargassed for protesting after curfew.”

    Do you know the meaning of “CURFEW”?
    If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!

    #1885712
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Health,
    “ I doubt that they are breaking any Law!”
    And I don’t really care about that. I just have a problem with soldiers in unmarked minivans pulling people off the sidewalk. If they were in a convoy of humvees it wouldn’t bother me as much.

    “ That’s the purpose of Law enforcement.”
    Actually not. The purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law. There are better ways to do that then acting like the KGB.

    “ Do you know the meaning of “CURFEW”?”
    Yeah, it means that after this time you get arrested. Teargas is for when violence is necessary.

    “ If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!”
    The 2nd amendment was designed in case someone like you made it into office.

    #1885758
    Health
    Participant

    DMB -“I just have a problem with soldiers in unmarked minivans pulling people off the sidewalk. If they were in a convoy of humvees it wouldn’t bother me as much.”

    I’m sure they recognized the guy as a Perp.
    They needed to do unmarked vehicles for the Element of Surprise.

    “Actually not. The purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law. There are better ways to do that then acting like the KGB.”

    Now your Lib attitude is Showing.
    This has nothing to do with Commy Russia.
    Sometimes you need an Element of Surprise, so the guy doesn’t have the Heads Up & Hides!

    “Do you know the meaning of “CURFEW”?”
    “Yeah, it means that after this time you get arrested. Teargas is for when violence is necessary.”

    IDK, if you been arrested or Not, but it’s a Long Process.
    If the purpose is to clear the streets, it’s much Easier to Use Tear Gas, than arrest s/o.
    To arrest s/o – they have to be Tried in a Court of Law.

    #1885796
    Doing my best
    Participant

    “If they are doing something wrong – they be held accountable.”
    actually not, because when you don’t know who someone is, then you can’t hold them accountable. That’s why police wear identification tags, which these agents don’t have.

    “I’m sure they recognized the guy as a Perp.”
    Could be, but that’s why i said they should use marked vehicles.

    “They needed to do unmarked vehicles for the Element of Surprise”
    The gain is not worth the loss.

    “This has nothing to do with Commy Russia.”
    Well whether you like it or not the fact is that they are using the same tactics.

    “To arrest s/o – they have to be Tried in a Court of Law.”
    Actually, what happens when responsible cities arrest protestors is they take them down to the station, process them which can take a while and then let them free. it usually takes a few hours, but no courts are involved. The idea is just to annoy the protestors so that they shouldn’t want to do it again.

    And again,
    “ If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!”
    The 2nd amendment was designed in case someone like you made it into office.

    #1885968
    som1
    Participant

    “And I don’t really care about that. I just have a problem with soldiers in unmarked minivans pulling people off the sidewalk. If they were in a convoy of humvees it wouldn’t bother me as much.”
    the federal officers have released videos and if you watch them you see all them are clearly marked with police on their uniform in big letters the only thing is their name was taken off the identification tag because there where multiple threats to have their family’s doxed but they had a number instead so their superiors could identify who is who
    “Actually not. The purpose of law enforcement is to enforce the law. There are better ways to do that then acting like the KGB.”
    i dare you to tell me how arresting people who have looted stores, started fires, threw things at officers and assaulted officers , or dispersing illegal gatherings , is not enforcing laws

    #1886091
    Health
    Participant

    DMB -“The gain is not worth the loss.”

    I guess that You don’t Understand! The Federal Agents are there to arrest people.
    That would require an Element of Surprise. NOT Letting them get a chance to get Away.

    “Actually, what happens when responsible cities arrest protestors is they take them down to the station, process them which can take a while and then let them free. it usually takes a few hours, but no courts are involved. The idea is just to annoy the protestors so that they shouldn’t want to do it again.”

    So, that’s exactly the problem. For years & years – this Liberal idea of this deterrant doesn’t Work. No one is scared to get arrested, if there is No Serious Punishment. So far, in the Cities, No one is scared Not to go out & RIOT! This is Not the Case, when the Feds arrest you!

    #1886161
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    I read an account by an immigrant who came over in the 1880s.She wrote that not feeling apprehensive by the sight of a police officer, took longer to be acclimated to than anything else. Your entire outlook of policing seems removed from my experiences. Can I ask if how many arrests you have been involved in? (Knowing the person arrested, or assisting in the arrest.)

    #1886162
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    Americans are not wimps.

    #1886220
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“I read an account by an immigrant who came over in the 1880s.She wrote that not feeling apprehensive by the sight of a police officer, took longer to be acclimated to than anything else.”
    My grandmother was like that. Because in Europe the cops hated Jews.
    But in the US, they treat e/o equally.
    You NEED to have some Fear of Law Enforcement. This is a Crime Deterrant.

    “Your entire outlook of policing seems removed from my experiences. Can I ask if how many arrests you have been involved in? (Knowing the person arrested, or assisting in the arrest.)”

    I never assisted in arresting people. But the other 2 questions are Yes.
    I actually have been arrested & taken to Jail.
    The Liberal way of arresting & NOT Prosceuting – feeds the ANARCHY in this Country!

    #1886299
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Health,
    “ this Liberal idea of this deterrant doesn’t Work. No one is scared to get arrested, if there is No Serious Punishment. So far, in the Cities, No one is scared Not to go out & RIOT!”
    What in the world are you talking about? When I said the sentence that I quoted I was talking about peaceful protests! Do you know how to follow a conversation?

    “ The Federal Agents are there to arrest people.”
    And as I said before, “ The gain is not worth the loss”. I think you forgot to address that.

    “And again,
    “ If Non-lethal doesn’t work, then they go to Live Fire!”
    The 2nd amendment was designed in case someone like you made it into office.”

    Som1,
    “ i dare you to tell me how arresting people who have looted stores, started fires, threw things at officers and assaulted officers , or dispersing illegal gatherings , is not enforcing laws”
    It is, but as I said, I don’t like the method of having soldiers in camouflage piling out of unmarked minivans and pulling people off the streets, whether or not those people are guilty. There are better ways of doing this.

    (PS: when I said “ That’s why police wear identification tags, which these agents don’t have“ I didn’t know that the agents are wearing the symbol of their agencies which they are, but there is still no way of knowing who individual agents are. Although I do recognize that there is a problem of doxing. But my main issue is the unmarked car tactic being used in Portland)

    #1886351
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    It was not just a bias. The police in the Old World had authority to force the law onto the people.
    In The U. S. the police are here to help us keep the law among ourselves. Like the idea of appreciating when you get ticketed for speeding.

    #1886358
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    When you were arrested, you cooperated because you were fearful that the Police may kill you or, because you knew that it would be worse in the long run to resist arrest? [Or, some other reason.]

    #1886474
    Health
    Participant

    DMB -“When I said the sentence that I quoted I was talking about peaceful protests!”
    I got news for you – they aren’t arresting people that are at a Legal, peaceful protest!

    #1886501
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Health,
    They were after curfew in the 1st week or 2. And that makes sense. The problem was that some cities deployed teargas at peaceful protests after curfew.

    #1886500
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“because you knew that it would be worse in the long run to resist arrest?”

    I got news for You – I’m a Law-abiding Citizen, Not Like George Floyd!
    Even if there Wasn’t 2 Armed Officers, just one Unarmed Meekly Officer, I’d comply with the Legal Arrest Warrant.
    The whole Current Events isn’t About White against Black, but Law-abiding Citizens vs. Criminals.
    The Media & the Libs have Conned the World!
    It’s Barbasim in Sheep’s Clothing.

    #1886509
    DovidBT
    Participant

    The problem was that some cities deployed teargas at peaceful protests after curfew.

    If the participants are breaking the law by ignoring the curfew, it’s not a peaceful protest, it’s a group of criminals. They should get a warning to leave, but if they fail to do so, the police are within their rights to use forceful measures to enforce the law.

    #1886589
    Doing my best
    Participant

    DovidBT,
    “ the police are within their rights to use forceful measures to enforce the law.”
    Force is only supposed to be used when needed, that’s why we don’t deploy teargas when arresting a shoplifter. By a peaceful protest, even if it is after curfew, teargas is not needed. When unnecessary force is used we call it police brutality.

    #1886603
    Health
    Participant

    DMB -“By a peaceful protest, even if it is after curfew, teargas is not needed. When unnecessary force is used we call it police brutality.”
    From YWN -“As the crowd grew — authorities estimate there were 4,000 present at the peak of the protest…
    Later, protesters vigorously shook the fence surrounding the courthouse, shot fireworks towards the building and threw glass bottles. Many times these actions were met by federal agents using tear gas and flash bangs.”

    IMHO, I believe that the Feds acted with much Restraint!
    They should have cleared the area as soon as the Curfew started.

    #1886604
    DovidBT
    Participant

    By a peaceful protest, even if it is after curfew, teargas is not needed.

    That’s not a peaceful protest. It’s a mob of criminals.

    #1886798
    opinionated-2
    Participant

    There’s no solution.
    Everyone is corrupt.
    No matter what we change someone will suffer for it.

    That’s golus

    #1886822
    Health
    Participant

    Opinionated 2 -“That’s golus”
    It’s one thing that the Goyim don’t keep the 7 Mitzvos, and another thing that they honor a Criminal because he was killed by the Cops! There are many Black Conservatives that say this openly. And right now, we don’t know if the cop did anything illegal. What happened to the concept of – Innocent Until Proven Guilty?!? And they call this Country better than Russia or China?!?

    #1886874
    Doing my best
    Participant

    New body cam from Chauvin’s.
    Nytimes-The video offers the fullest portrait yet of the tragic events around Mr. Floyd’s killing. It begins with officers driving to the scene, after a convenience store clerk called 911 and said a man had used a counterfeit $20 bill, and it ends showing officers on the street discussing what happened, after Mr. Floyd is driven away in an ambulance. At one point, in footage not previously seen, the officers are shown dragging Mr. Floyd to the ground after he resisted being put in the squad car.
    Once he was on the ground, as Mr. Floyd again said he couldn’t breathe, and asked for water, and begged for his life, Derek Chauvin, the senior officer on the scene, said, in a nonchalant, almost mocking, tone, “takes a heck of a lot of oxygen to say that.”

    The footage provides more detail into the action of Mr. Chauvin, who has been charged with second-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter for keeping his knee on Mr. Floyd’s neck for more than eight minutes while he gasped for life. He was later pronounced dead at the hospital.

    As the minutes ticked by, and Mr. Floyd became quieter and his body went limp, one officer checked his pulse and said he couldn’t find one.

    Mr. Chauvin’s response, uttered with no emotion, was, “uh huh.”

    Just before, after being told that Mr. Floyd appeared to be passing out, Mr. Chauvin appears to express more concern for his fellow officers than the man dying under his knee.
    “You guys all right, though?” he said.

    “My knee might be a little scratched, but I’ll survive,” responded another officer, Thomas Lane.

    The footage was made available for viewing Wednesday to the public and media by appointment at the Hennepin County Government Center in downtown Minneapolis — in a conference room with a dozen laptop stations — but was not allowed to be copied or recorded.

    Doesn’t seem like such a nice guy, eh?

    #1886871
    Doing my best
    Participant

    DovidBT,
    “That’s not a peaceful protest. It’s a mob of criminals.”
    Aha! So then we are talking about 2 different protests 🙂

    “ IMHO, I believe that the Feds acted with much Restraint!”
    IMHO, that is 100% true. I was talking about a specific tactic which seems to have been stopped.

    #1887173
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Doing,
    Good policing is, to use tear gas on a protest that does not disperse. The main problem in the present is that there are so many people that have nowhere to go after. (Homeless, unemployed, etc.)

    #1887174
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    Why is Mr. Floyd not innocent until proven guilty?

    #1887177
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    What is the reason that criminal should fear the Police? All it would get, is more officers being harmed during every day arrests. I cannot fathom what kind of deterrent would have helped make the arrest go smoother in any of these high profile cases.

    #1887231
    som1
    Participant

    nomesorah
    “Good policing is, to use tear gas on a protest that does not disperse. The main problem in the present is that there are so many people that have nowhere to go after. (Homeless, unemployed, etc.)”
    hilariously stupid, the protesters couldn’t leave because they were homeless and unemployed hahaha🤣
    DO YOU SERIOUSLY believe what comes out of your own mouth??

    #1887249
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“Why is Mr. Floyd not innocent until proven guilty?”

    Of course he would be, but he’s dead.
    He’s NOT on Trial.

    “What is the reason that criminal should fear the Police?”

    This would decrease the desire to do a criminal act.
    It wouldn’t stop e/o, though.

    #1887251
    charliehall
    Participant

    Had Geroge Floyd been a Jew, WE would be the ones rioting.

    #1887286
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    You mean like we did after yankele rosenbaum, the monsey stabbing, and the jersey city murders?

    #1887294
    Health
    Participant

    SL -“You mean like we did after yankele rosenbaum, the monsey stabbing, and the jersey city murders?”

    No, Charlie thinks that the behavior of people rioting when there is a perceived violation of their rights is the correct way. Us Jews should learn to be the same way!

    #1887341
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    So, if Mr. Floyd is still presumed innocent, why do you keep referring to him as a criminal? [And, as resisting arrest for criminal motives.]

    Fear of the police, would not stop crimes. It would stop them from being reported. I would not call the Police for an active robbery, if we are more afraid of the Police than the criminals. And it for sure would make no difference, in these high profile cases. They mostly involve incompetent, or vicious cops filing to make an ordinary arrest.

    #1887342
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Som,
    You misunderstand. These days, the protests are much bigger, and seem to have no end. That is because people have nothing else to do. So they stay where they are all night long. Of course they could leave, but why would they? My post was disagreeing with the poster who believes not to use teargas on peaceful protests. I think, that teargas is intended for peaceful protests that do not disperse. The issue now is that the crowds will keep on coming back. teargas will not solve everything. It will take community outreach with excellent policing, or full rioting to reach the end of this. It could go on for months.

    #1887529
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“So, if Mr. Floyd is still presumed innocent, why do you keep referring to him as a criminal? [And, as resisting arrest for criminal motives.]”

    Did you research what happened in Minn. before you came to Post on YWN?
    Floyd was convicted of many Crimes – way before the incident of his Death!

    “Fear of the police, would not stop crimes. It would stop them from being reported.”

    It would make people Think Twice before they would Act, if their actions could be viewed as Criminal!

    #1887726
    n0mesorah
    Participant

    Dear Health,
    People who are afraid, think with less clarity.

    If I remember correctly, all his arrests were years ago in a different city. It would play no role in his first interaction with the Police in Minneappolis.

    I think this is not about Police for you. You would rather discuss the high profile stories. So, here goes.

    As I recall, most of his arrests were for small amounts of cocaine. The one violent crime (Was it armed robbery?), he was not positively ID’d. Though, he did plead guilty. There seems to be zero evidence that he was a pusher. More like a typical low class nice guy on drugs. You already stated your opinions about drugs. Just don’t go looking into your friends too much. It would put you in a tough position.

    #1887982
    Health
    Participant

    nOmesorah -“The one violent crime (Was it armed robbery?), he was not positively ID’d. Though, he did plead guilty. More like a typical low class nice guy on drugs.”

    Why do you post things that can’t be True?!?
    This is very Extreme Liberalism.
    Yes, he was Convicted on Home Invasion with Armed Robbery.
    The impression that you’re trying to give is Blatantly FALSE!
    You don’t need a Positive ID to find s/o Guilty of a Crime.
    It was through the Police Investigation that they found him & Convicted him.
    He decided on his own to plead Guilty.
    Probably because he figured that the Judge would be lenient.

    From SCOPES:
    “About three months later, investigators in the Houston Police Department narcotics unit “came across this vehicle during one of the their respective investigations and identified the following subjects as occupants of this vehicle at the time of their investigation: George Floyd (Driver)…,” the statement reads.
    At 6-foot-7, Floyd was identified as the “the largest” of the six suspects who arrived at the home in the Ford Explorer and had pushed a pistol against Henriquez’ abdomen before looking for items to steal. (Nothing in the court documents suggests she was pregnant at the time of the robbery, contrary to what memes and Owens later claimed.) He pleaded guilty in 2009 and was sentenced to five years in prison. He was paroled in January 2013, when he was almost 40 years old.”

    This isn’t – “like a typical low class nice guy on drugs”.
    So STOP Trying to MANIPULATE the Readers on YWN!!!

    #1888114
    charliehall
    Participant

    “Charlie thinks that the behavior of people rioting when there is a perceived violation of their rights is the correct way. Us Jews should learn to be the same way!”

    I do not believe that nor did I say that, but I see that lying during the week of Tisha B’Av about what someone said seems to be acceptable practice here. While US Jews don’t usually riot, charedi Jews in Israel riot on a regular basis, and are treated gingerly by the police, at least compared to Arab rioters in Israel.

    #1888118
    charliehall
    Participant

    “You don’t need a Positive ID to find s/o Guilty of a Crime.”

    The Talmud says you do. Our judicial system does not meet even the minimal standards demanded by the Torah for Noachide courts.

    “Convicted on Home Invasion with Armed Robbery.”

    Which is not a death penalty offense in the US. The police executed him without trial, without due process.

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