Differences between newspapers and Jewish news sites
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- This topic has 23 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 2 months, 2 weeks ago by ujm.
January 1, 2023 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #2152485RebYid613Participant
Why is it not ok to put pictures of women in Frum newspapers and if done people make a fuss about it like the fjj, Mishpacha etc. but it’s ok for online “jewish” kosher websites like yeshiva world vin etc. to put pictures of women sometimes when there not even dressed appropriately?January 2, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2153045GadolhadorahParticipant
RebYid: There is nothing depicted in any photo here on YWN that you will not see when you walk out your door, take the train to the office, speak with your secretary or business colleague, stop at the market on the way home etc. Each newspaper, magazine or online social media site can decide for itself whether and how to include photographs of women as part of their news coverage. If something offends you, than don’t log in.January 2, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2153046Yserbius123Participant
Because it’s all about economics.
Way back in the 80s, the Yated Ne’eman decided that they aren’t going to be the arbiters of what is and what is not tznius and decided to make a blanket prohibition on printing pictures of woman. Flash forward to the 00’s and the explosion of frum newspapers. None of them wanted to be the paper on the shelf that people will pass over for being “less frum” so they all had to accept all the ridiculous chumras of all the other papers and then add some. There are maybe 5% of readers who will consciousnessly choose a paper without woman over a paper with woman in it, but those 5% are a big market share and all the papers have to market accordingly.
However, the same 5% are also the people who will either not have Internet access, or not admit to having it. So pictures of women on the web won’t deter them from spending their money.January 2, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2153048yungermanSParticipant
Cause when its on a website its looked at for a second and then you pass down and read the news about it. But when its in a newspaper then the picture of a lady etc…. Keeps getting looked at on the fill page newsletter about her etc…. And any children can open up to that page and chas vshalom have major negative effects on their chinuch and yiddishkeit etc…..January 2, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2153055
You should have an image blocker extension on your web browser. It isn’t hard to install.January 2, 2023 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #2153068☕️coffee addictParticipant
The reason is because the people that are bothered by it don’t have internet
Simple as thatJanuary 2, 2023 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #2153120takahmamashParticipant
It’s “they’re,” not “there.”
What’s the difference what they show in YWN? All the alleged “chareidi” and “haimish” people who use this site, yet they claim to cling to a Rebbe or Rosh Yeshiva who in no circumstances would allow them to use the internet.
Filtered, unfiltered, makes no difference.January 2, 2023 1:40 pm at 1:40 pm #21531061a2b3cParticipant
They serve a different clientele.January 2, 2023 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #2153179
takah, do you really think unfiltered internet use, with the sheol tachtis being at the flick of a finger, is the same as with a filter? seriously? do you know a rov who would say that the internet is so bad that it makes literally no difference? filters transform the internet from a spiritual contaminant to a largely psychological one, with spiritual side effects, such as bitul torah.
as to the OP – there’s a reason most rabbonim are not very happy with YWN and similar sites.January 2, 2023 3:53 pm at 3:53 pm #2153197
If your focus is that it’s a woman in the ad, than you have bigger problems.January 2, 2023 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2153265Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant
by the way, search engines personalizes things. So, if you usually search for “exciting news” will (probably) bring you a rogachever chidush if you usually look for tosfos and something else if you look up different material. [I did not experiment with this, so try on your own risk[
And they have information not only from the search itself but also from other corners of internet that resell your history.January 2, 2023 5:02 pm at 5:02 pm #2153341
The holier one is, the more sensitive he is to all matters of kedushah and shmiras aynayim.
When i was becoming a torah jew, i asked me rebbe if women suddenly dressed more pritzusdig. He said no, they didn’t change – it’s you who became more sensitive to it.
When you’re rolling around in dirt, you only notice it when you get clean.January 2, 2023 6:59 pm at 6:59 pm #2153363
I always thought that Kedusha is associated with a greater control of what one’s focus is.January 3, 2023 6:41 pm at 6:41 pm #2153690smerelParticipant
Because the newspapers hold themselves to a much higher standard of frunkeit than the online venues.
I can think of many think that online venues allow that the newspaper wouldn’t. Conversely I never heard hear of anyone getting chizuk from an online venue but I have heard people express that about certain newspapers.January 3, 2023 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #2153712BMGParticipant
Because as frum Jews those newspapers asked they asked das torah and that’s what they were advised to do by contrast online news websites can’t afford to ask das torah what they should do because the answer would be to shut down
That is the only explanation plausible for YWN having published articles straight into the hands of tens of thousands of Chareidim that include videos that are asur mideoraysa to look atJanuary 3, 2023 8:12 pm at 8:12 pm #2153727
The newspapers do not have Daas Torah. If you think otherwise kindly name exactly which rabbi is their alleged Daas Torah.
But I certainly agree with you that the websites are 100s of times worse.January 3, 2023 8:16 pm at 8:16 pm #2153731
I am truly humbled by the great standard’s of my holy fellow posters.January 3, 2023 8:17 pm at 8:17 pm #2153728
The newspapers do not have Daas Torah. If you think otherwise kindly name exactly which rabbi is their alleged Daas Torah.
But I certainly agree with you that the websites are 100s of times worse.January 3, 2023 10:32 pm at 10:32 pm #2153747
Nom, it’s open gemaros. When abaya and rava saw the talmudic equivalent of two modern orthodox children, a boy and a girl, walking together, one of the amoraim said to the other that if we would have been in that situation, we would have ran to be nichshal.
Rav amram chasida’s story shows the same concept.
Kedushah means separation; the more you’re separate from something, the more stark the contrast is and the more powerful the yatzer hora is.
When someone simply doesn’t notice pritzus, it’s not due to some gevurah or self control…. it’s the opposite, he is as a thin tree, swayed as soon as the wind of ta’avah passes over him, enslaved to his yatzer so much that he mistakes his chains for freedom.
The chofetz chaim’s granddaughter retold how once when the holy chofetz chaim was in a meeting with rabbonim, she was pacing back and forth in the adjancent room. The chofetz chaim rebuked her, a child of around 10 years old, saying “do you think we are malaachim?”
If something repulsive doesn’t repulse you… it’s not something to be proud of. Truly ehrlich jews avoid being in places or situations which require them to have nisyonos in shmiras aynayim.
It is the rasha who says that he can go down a road with pritzus and just not look – that’s exactly the term the gemara uses, according to the rashbam, to describe such an arrogant individual.
Drop the academic books and open a mussar sefer. And learn it for mussar, not for intellectual stimulation. Stop looking with what you think are neutral eyes into a world that you understand so superficially.January 3, 2023 10:33 pm at 10:33 pm #2153749
Ujm, the mainstream frum newspapers do have rabbonim who are consulted. The problem is that no daas torah can control and invest time to read every word printed in every issue.
Some are better than others, in how much they ask daas torah. Some are following illegitimate rabbis who are political hacks. Hamayvin yovin.January 4, 2023 1:48 am at 1:48 am #2153758
I don’t think kedusha means mere separation. It is a negation of the need/want. People mistakenly think that if you want it at all then it must be from a lack of kedusha, but real kedusha requires a negation of both. Sometimes the desire for it. And sometimes the fulfillment. Otherwise, it’s just a game to build up the appetite.
Part of it is definitely to tech myself not to notice it. If I would take notice of everything as a way of potential sin, and then struggle to overcome it, I would be both fully insane and a complete sinner.
Though partially insane and an incomplete sinner sounds like something I’m still striving for.January 4, 2023 1:49 am at 1:49 am #2153757
Your post is all over the place. This was about pictures of women. You start with a gemara (I recall learning it. But I can’t remember where. Kindly source for me. Thanks.) about actual people. Then refer to repulsive sights. And then back to or maybe on to coming across pritzus. I’m not calling you out on any of it. It’s that I don’t get your point other than that more refined people get repulsed easier. I think that is a valid point. But not relevant here.
A refined person should be able to ignore the ads completely. And if the ads annoy you in any way, it’s predictable enough to avoid seeing them. What it takes at most is to walk away as the page loads. And then only look at the center of the page.
But that is all about something that our minds think as repulsive, shocking, out of the norm. I don’t think that would be any ads on this site. The only image I recall from this site, news or ad, is the stop sign from gaucher’s disease or whatever genetics.January 4, 2023 10:34 am at 10:34 am #2153837
Rav Acha would carry Kallah on his shoulders, when talmidim asked if they could do it he replied if she seemd to them “like a beam” (Kesubos 17a) Was he on a lower level of kedusha than they ?January 4, 2023 10:35 am at 10:35 am #2153795GadolhadorahParticipant
Do you wear special eyeglasses that “photoshop out’ every woman in your field of view as you walk down the street??? Are you one of those erliche yidden who arrives at the airport with a paper bag over his head guided to his flight gate by two gabboim holding his arms? Do you require all your house guests to wear Burkahs? And does you employer refuse to to assign women to any offices adjacent to your cubicle?
Absent affirmative answers to each of the above questions, perhaps contact R’ Yosef for some instruction in how to structure a credible troll or “cancel your subscription” to YWN.January 4, 2023 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2153920
Most people have zero yetzer harah when they see pictures of men. If someone does, does that mean he is on a higher level of kedusha?
I’m guessing you’ll say “No that isn’t a normal yetzer harah” (I’m sorry if that isnt what you would say I don;t mean to put words in your mouth just seems like an obvious distinction – in which case ignore rest of post and if you could provide your own answer please )
Then though that means that a yetzer harah for 10 year old girls is normal (otherwise your story with the chofetz chai is weird)
So it really just comes down to what is and isnt considered normal
Is it normal to have yetzer harah when see pinky?
Sure if a person looks intending to get hannah of course thats assur, but stam azaoi there is no issur. So is it a higher level to be the type of person who gets hanaah from pinkys ? That seems a bit pathologic. Of course if that IS a person’s yetzer harah he needs to deal with it. but if it isnt to say he has a lower level of kedusha seems funny .
So this ends up being the fellow who draws targets then shoots arrows.
Whatever you dont want to exclude is an abnormal yetzer harah and NOT a sign of kedusha if you struggle with it and whatever you want to ban anyone who doesnt struggle with it is less kadosh.
There is no objective standard men? children? babies? Old women? pinkys? you just get to decide what is and isnt normalJanuary 4, 2023 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2153905
Gadol, happens to be that when i worked in an office for a short time, it was gender separate! Many frum businesses do this.
Nom – glad we can occasionally have a level headed discussion; sorry if i upped the temperature unnecessarily.
Re, kedushah meaning separation; see Rashi on “ayeh hakadesha asher ba’ayin”, rav hirsch in chorev discusses the definition of kedushah this way too; i can find mekoros if necessary.
The gemara about abayah is sukkah 52b; rava is not there, i made a mistake.
As for what I’m trying to say – I’ll clarify. Of course it’s not a good idea to look for nisyonos or to get one’s self to notice things unnecessarily. The baalei mussar say that if you’re walking on the street and constantly thinking about the nisyonos of shmiras aynayim, you’re likely to fail – being masiach daas from it is very important.
But I’m not saying not to be masiach daas. I’m referring to a cavalier attitude many have which is that they can look anywhere and not violate halacha, because they’re mature enough to control themselves. To that, i brought gemaros that no one can say that they can control themselves, and therefore they must keep themselves away from nisyonos as much as possible. When actually confronted with the yatzer hora, the game plan is like you said, to ignore it.
When I said that we’re supposed to be repulsed by bad sights, it’s something that happens by itself when you’re distant from them. When i spent the entire summer in camp, and hadn’t been around goyim for so long, it hit me much harder when i came back to the city – that’s a level of sensitivity and kedushah. That doesn’t mean i drove myself crazy and tried to notice everything; it’s a madrega that happens memaylah.
As for news site ads; i don’t see them, i have a pop up blocker and my filter cuts out most of them on the page.January 4, 2023 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2153899
Ubiq – great question; the meforshim discuss it at length.
The simple answer is that there’s a difference between situations which lead to issur in and of themselves (i.e. yichud, or in our case, shmiras aynayim) and activities which are mitzvos (mesamayach choson vekalah)
A deeper answer is found in likutei moharan, which discusses the different types of yatzer horas of different types of tzadikimJanuary 4, 2023 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #2153911
you say “The holier one is, the more sensitive he is to all matters of kedushah and shmiras aynayim.”
The Jewish Observer had pictures of Women, as you must know it was published under the auspices of Agudas Yisroel. I doubt the moetzes was too involved in the month to month publishing, but it is hard to imagine they opposed the practice.
Not to mention many Rabbanim did regulalry contribute .
Was Torah True Judaism tm on a lower level of kedusha then than today?January 4, 2023 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2153949
“The simple answer…” But that isnt what Rav Acha said. Rav Acha said that he had no hirhurim whatsoever from it. Or put another way she didnt make a roshem it was like holding a beam, he didnt notice her
If I understand your correctly NOT having a yetzer haraah, ie viewing a kallah as a beam is LOWER than havign a yetzer harah. It means less kedusha. Im’ asking on his “beam” response not on his action. If he said “I have a huge yetzer hara for her – bigger than yours! but bmkom mitzvah its muttar” or somehting like that , I’d hear. but that wasnt his reply.January 4, 2023 5:04 pm at 5:04 pm #2153959
Regarding Rav Acha, I’ll try to get back to you with a proper response later; I’m a bit busy now
What I will answer for now is your question about the JO – it was a high-quality publication, which many rabbonim wrote for, but it’s not as if every single action done by every agudah askan or group is sanctioned directly by its moetzes. It could be the question never dawned on them to ask. At the time, I don’t think most frum people were at the point where shmiras aynayim was so important to them that pictures of women in publications was an issue.
I believe Torah judaism has grown by leaps and bounds in the past few decades. Awareness, learning, values, be’kamus and be’aichus is far more than it was years ago. Of course it’s nothing compared to the giants of torah in pre-war europe, but compared to what American Jewry was since its inception….the battle went from keeping Jews frum and not intermarrying, to the challenges of a totally committed, knowledgeable Jew.
The divide between the sincerely frum and the rest is far greater than it used to be. Most frum jews had a TV when the JO was at its peak; they were seeing women, and untznius women, everyday. Not to mention the mixed kiddushin, etc..January 4, 2023 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #2154109
youre dodging a bit on JO.
Yes not everything was run by the moetzes, I said that. But future moetzes members worte for it. the Novominsker, Rav Elya Svei.
“It could be the question never dawned on them to ask.”
you are probably right, I don;t think anyone had a hava amina that there was somethign wrong with picturs of Tznius women (there once was a complaint for a picture deemed non-tznius was a small picture in piece of dress from around the world ).
You discuss the growth of Torah Judaim, which is great but not the subject at hand.
The subject is kedusa
“Most frum jews had a TV when the JO was at its peak; they were seeing women, and untznius women, everyday. Not to mention the mixed kiddushin, etc..”
So yes our generation has greater kedusha than theirs (less exposed to TV etc). thats fair
thanks for the reply
If you dont mind I asked a third question above
(labeled third question)January 4, 2023 11:47 pm at 11:47 pm #2154103LakewoodscoopParticipant
So many posts and no one says this! Maybe it’s just simply wrong and not ok and really Yeshiva world knows that and they don’t care.January 5, 2023 2:18 am at 2:18 am #2154152
Ubiq – my answers are coming; hopefully tomorrowJanuary 5, 2023 11:50 am at 11:50 am #2154267Jersey JewParticipant
One really has to wonder what the difference is. Let’s take for example yated which was mentioned before. They have a news website that begins with an m and ends with a V, that people don’t know about the connection and that horrible website lifts their stories from the Washington Compost. It’s like there’s no thought whatsoever that goes into the posts because the Washington compost is fully supported by the DNC which means there is no brain involved in it. On the other hand you have YWN that lifts stories as well, but they don’t tell you where their story is coming from. At least the other website mentions where they get their story from when they lift it.
The bottom line is they all turned into garbage unfortunately.January 5, 2023 1:50 pm at 1:50 pm #2154293
Your post with the compost and the brain does not follow to pining that lay journalism under. If you want us to be dazzled by the way you view the world, start your own blog.January 5, 2023 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #2154317
Jersey Jew: How are you sure that site is affiliated with Yated?
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