Do they teach girls how to cook in Seminary?

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  • #592560

    I was wondering if they teach girls to cook, bake, and how to bake Challos in Seminary. Do they or don’t they, and if they don’t WHY DON’T THEY?!

    #700380
    NoNonsense
    Participant

    why can’t they learn that from their mothers?

    #700381
    fabie
    Member

    Maybe in Satmar. I would make the question much broader. Do Seminaries teach anything practical, or are they trying to compete with the Yeshivas.

    #700382
    bpt
    Participant

    Doubtful, as the girls sems are room and board. Not to worry, though; the boys learn how to cook, because they live in diras, so as long as she can earn and he can run the house, all will be well 🙂

    #700383
    mybat
    Member

    I dont think that they do, but they should!

    #700384
    blinky
    Participant

    I learnt how to do it at home! Btw, men can cook too…

    #700385
    arc
    Participant

    Many seminaries require the girls to make at least 1 meal for themselves.

    Most kids learn from their mother growing up (at least my sisters, wife and cousins did)

    #700386
    Sacrilege
    Member

    No, in fact they dont.

    I guess I have one leg up on the competition in this area!

    #700387
    theprof1
    Participant

    Do they teach how to do hairdressing in medical schools? I don’t think so. Do bakers teach their apprentices how to polish shoes? Why not, the shoes get so dirty. Teachers’ Seminaries are meant to educate future teachers. That’s what they are, teachers’ Seminaries, not a place for future Jewish mothers to hang out for a year. Satmar teaches home economics because their tenets do not allow girls to learn Torah. That’s a Sara Shenirer holy concept not accepted by Satmar. You can’t compare what they do to what Bais Yakov style seminaries do.

    #700388
    popa_bar_abba
    Participant

    theprof1:

    I think you are contending that “seminaries” are really “teacher’s seminaries”. This will come as a surprise to the vast majority of their students; who do not intend to be teachers.

    #700389
    blinky
    Participant

    the prof- actually seminaries prepare you for marriage and motherhood (in addition to teaching)

    #700390
    Sacrilege
    Member

    theprof1 – cute reasoning but not entirely correct (not entirely false either)

    For example: Yavne Teachers Seminary (shout out!) granted that is meant to churn out some teachers, so you wont find any Home Economics there (or any form of fun for that matter)

    BY Intensive – Is also a place to go to become a teacher. Home Economics? Prolly not.

    BYA (E”Y), BJJ, Bnos Chava, Hadar…. They dont claim to perfect the craft of teaching. It is 13th grade (for 20K a pop). If you can spend a 1/3 of the year on Tiyulim certainly they can spend some time teaching the girl how to cook.

    #700391

    theprof1

    Since when are all Seminaries “Teachers Seminaries?” Besides for Hadar and BJJ most Seminaries are geared towards regular future mommys. They should teach less Ramban and more useful things that they need for marriage like cooking and housekeeping skills.

    Not everybody has or can afford a live in maid!

    #700392
    Moq
    Member

    In Brisk, Mir & R’ Tzvi – any Yeshiva that have diros – boys get there first taste of cooking.

    It’s actually wonderful, the poor bachurim eat with a michlig iron and a flieshig iron for two years, and it’s great preparation for marriage – anything their eshes chayil makes is meyen olam habah, compared to reheated three day old pizza on a radiator (the michlig one).

    (And I agree with prof. Home economics can be taught in High School. Sem is about sem.)

    #700393
    SmartTeen
    Member

    I know of a few seminaries that have a challah making course to teach about the special mitzvah that a woman has. It includes learning about it, and learning how to make and braid challah.

    There is also a seminary Bnos Chana that is half a day learning and half a day of parnassah courses which does include a culinary program. It seems very nice and teaches girls how to make healthy and delicious food!

    #700394
    mybat
    Member

    I certainly hope that my daughters are able to cook better than to understand another rambam. But thats only my humble opinion…..

    #700395
    frumladygit
    Member

    I heard that there is a story of the Shach where 2 girls came to him with a “shaila” in torah, maybe Ramban or Rambam. I don’t know what they were asking, but he listened patiently and then asked his Rebbetzin to bring in a heimishe cake platter. Then he turned to the girls and said “when you are able to bake this..come back”.

    The point was they were focusing on something that was unnecessary.

    There is nothing wrong with learning, and there are lots of ladies all through the generations who were VERY learned and could even paskin, if needed, but the point is that ladies’ tikkun and duty is to first and foremost run the home, and know how to clean, bake, cook and teach /raise children properly. This totally does not mean it was any less of a “job”. Just as the kohanim were the ones cleaning the garbage of the bais hamikdash.

    (By the way who decided this was a demeaning or denegrating job?)

    All these ladies who could paskin, for example Rashi’s daughters had well run homes. (I assume)…I mean they were intelligent and we can expect they conducted themselves in the “middle of the road”, in all spheres. Ruchnius and Gashmius.

    Look at the Aishes Chayil from Mishlei. Most of it is talking about the running of the home, but the Aishes Chayil type lady will take the mundane running of the home and take it to serve Hashem properly.

    I know a Satmar Seminary girl who came home from school yesterday afternoon and she had spent the last period of the day together with her whole class in the teacher’s kitchen preparing and learning how to do a fancy cheesecake. They were focusing on how to do that zebra effect across the top. Apparently this class has already learnt how to do kreplach, shlishkes. They have a home budgeting class, using a pretend family set up for the year. They learn how to budget the family’s finances. Which is more important because not everyone is going to become teachers, and even if they do, teachers are still be responsible for budgeting their pay check.

    One class they have in this Satmar Seminary is Shalom Bayis or Toras Habayis, as the teacher also calls it. Another class they take is how to handle shmiras haloshen when giving information for shiddichum. Again, I must reiterate this is not to say they are not learning everything else such as Teaching Children Literature, Special Ed., Parsha, Yehadas, Hilchos shaboos, teaching methods, computers, accounting.

    In my opinion all of these courses are far more practical and realisitic for the future than Calculus, biology, high maths, and learning goyisher literature. I understand they teach these in some of the Bais Yakkov schools. My question is what these girls need that for.

    Even if girls could learn how to do cooking with their mother in the kitchen, its a chore and usually under tension and pressure out of sheer need erev shabbos or otherwise. There is no comparing it to the new and fresh perspective a girl feels when learning it in a educative-style-environment, knowing she is going to be practicing these new skills in the home she will build, after marriage. They take pride in the lessons and skills they learn.

    #700396
    WIY
    Member

    frumladygit

    The story was with Rav Shach ZTL or at least thats who they say it happened with. nobody knows if this story really happened or if its something some people dreamed up he “would have said.”

    #700397

    Most high schools have some sort of home economics in 12th grade. I never heard of a seminary teaching it but don’t girls learn from their parents? I am definitely learning from my mother. I play around and figure out some recipes and hopefully by the time I’m ready to get married I’ll be able to do that stuff. I don’t see it as necessary to teach in seminary if high schools give it.

    #700398

    nope. but I was shocked that an 18 yo girl can’t cook. I was raised that a bas mitzva girl should be able to cook a full shabbos if necessary.

    #700399
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    I would rather my daughters have a strong foundation of Torah knowledge than know how to bake a cheesecake.

    Cooking is not rocket science – open a recipe book and follow.

    Nowadays, we are really sending girls a mixed message. On the one hand, she is supposed to take care of the home, the children etc. On the other, she is supposed to be the breadwinner and support her husband in Kollel.

    Torah knowledge is needed to combat women’s exposure. I would rather my daughter know how to read a Rambam than bake a fancy cheesecake.

    #700400
    emoticon613
    Member

    sjs – why not both? (this is, incidentally my answer when s/o asks the incredibly inane question – middos or torah in a boy??)

    but about the cooking. in tiferes seminary, you can learn to cook if you want, because the girls are free in the kitchen and can use basic ingredients and stuff like that, and they make their own breakfasts, and melava malka, and, occasionally, make their own in shabbos.

    and they also learn rambam.

    but when all is said and done, number one, some people can’t even follow a cookbook, and two, the ikker avodah for a woman is wife/mother, and if she can’t balance that with parnassah, then guess which one will have to go?

    #700401
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Because I personally don’t want to pay $20,000 for my child to learn to make cheesecake. For that, I can keep her home and teach her myself.

    I think what is more practical is to give the girls apartments and have them be responsible for their meals. Give them a weekly apartment budget at the grocery store (so they learn to compromise on what they can afford) and have each girl responsible for a dinner. Then mentor the girl on simple, good food.

    It would take a lot less time and give them real understanding of cooking for a family. No formal lesson really needed on how to roast a chicken.

    #700402
    Sacrilege
    Member

    SJS –

    “I would rather my daughter know how to read a Rambam than bake a fancy cheesecake.”

    Well then there is something wrong.

    In Europe no woman knew how to read Meforshim and our Grandparents turned out just fine.

    #700403
    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    Because I personally don’t want to pay $20,000 for my child to learn to make cheesecake. For that, I can keep her home and teach her myself.

    So why are you spending the 20K?

    I think what is more practical is to give the girls apartments and have them be responsible for their meals. Give them a weekly apartment budget at the grocery store (so they learn to compromise on what they can afford) and have each girl responsible for a dinner. Then mentor the girl on simple, good food.

    Sounds a lot (from what I understand) like the Mir Dirahs, or Michlalla for girls. That may be your best option, even though it is not a “Bais Yaakov Seminary” per say (which may be a plus for you).

    #700404
    arc
    Participant

    “In Europe no woman knew how to read Meforshim and our Grandparents turned out just fine.”

    we arent discussing how to raise our grandparents we are discussing how to raise our children in America.

    #700405
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Sacrilege, there is no need to teach how to make a fancy cheesecake. If you want to make one, try it out at home. Jewish women don’t need to be gourmet cooks.

    Jewish women really do need a strong foundation in halacha, Jewish philosophy etc and also need the ability to learn on their own. If you don’t understand that this is important in today’s day and age, I think you don’t understand the draw of society.

    #700406
    Sacrilege
    Member

    Arc –

    “we arent discussing how to raise our grandparents we are discussing how to raise our children in America.”

    Shaal Avicha V’yagedchu Zkeynecha V’yomru Lach – so much of what we do is based on mesorah. And really, how is knowing a Rambam fortifying you against America today?

    I am all for girls learning, but the need PRACTICAL hashkafic and mussar lessons.

    #700407
    arc
    Participant

    The R’ Shach story isn’t documented so people that dont see the story as positive shouldn’t beleive it.

    #700408
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Why is Rambam not practical? Much of his philosophy (the rational/science based parts especially) really resonate with a lot of people.

    #700409
    arc
    Participant

    “I am all for girls learning, but the need PRACTICAL hashkafic and mussar lessons”

    I agree with this. Hilchos kashrus and shabbos are extremely important for women to learn.

    as is strong haskafa, that’s the bottom line reason people spend more than they can afford on seminary(even if they themselves dont know it is). give your daughter a strong hashkafic foundation so the Toras Imecha is true and right.

    Mesorah, yeah I agree with the importance of that and B”H have a long and respected yichus that makes more of a believer in mesorah. that said, don’t compare to the “heim” because we arent in Europe and boys today are taught very different than in Europe.

    #700410
    Sacrilege
    Member

    SJS – If you have found girls that find practical hashkafa and mussar from a textual Rambam I’m not going to argue, In my experience that isnt the case.

    “boys today are taught very different than in Europe.”

    Um, I thought we were discussing girls.

    #700411
    arc
    Participant

    you brought up Europe. If the way it was, is the only way it should be, then that should apply to boys as well.

    #700412
    not I
    Member

    My high school B’kiyus teacher always stressed that learning Rashi was the KEY to Yiras Shomayim!

    Yes if one learns the Meforshim… they are receiving the best lessons in life. They will then know how to prioritise. They will decide when the time is to make a fancy cheese cake with a zebra effect or rather be busy with the kids.

    #700413
    mybat
    Member

    I guess i should thank G-d that i dont live in the US. In Mexico its a very big maala when a girl knows how to cook. Thats usually why ashkenaz guys look for sephardic girls they are usually better in the kitchen. (Im not saying that many ashkenaz girls arent wonderful wives or mothers, but they are usually not raised to be in the kitchen, they have a different mentality)

    #700414

    i have a friend who is married to a woman from Mexico

    i have eaten in their home

    i can confirm what mybat said

    her cooking is unbelievably good as well as very interesting and different from what one usually finds.

    i didnt share my enthusiasm for her cooking with my wife

    #700415
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    I can tell you the food that comes out of my kitchen is both interesting and delicious.

    I never went to seminary.

    I didn’t even cook while I was living at home.

    #700416
    arc
    Participant

    Mod if you’d live in Mexico ashkenazi food would be different, just saying. But you’re a smart man not sharing your sentiments with your wife.

    #700417

    true

    but it was truly delicious on its own right

    #700418

    thank you

    the conversation walking home went like this:

    wife, casually: “so, what did you think of the food?

    me, equally casually: “it was okay”

    #700419
    Darchei Noam
    Member

    Is it some kind of sin against a marriage to rave to your spouse about another families cooking?

    #700420

    yes

    #700421
    Darchei Noam
    Member

    Is that a widespread view, or a personal one?

    #700422

    i never saw a stastical study addressing the issue

    #700423
    blinky
    Participant

    i would imagine if you tell your wife it was delicious thats fine. But if your going to rant and rave about it all the way home than yeah it might make her feel a little bad.

    #700424
    arc
    Participant

    sin no, “don’t go there”, yes. your wife is always best at everything.

    #700425

    i think thats a good distinction you drew blinquie

    a credit to your aristocratic heritage.

    #700426
    blinky
    Participant

    Why thank you 80, I am quite honoured by your kind words! Would you accept my invitation to have you as my Shabbos guest? As long as you won’t rave to your wife about my cooking (it might be hard not to)

    #700427

    are you from mexico?

    #700428
    blinky
    Participant

    nope! are you?

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