January 19, 2011 6:11 am at 6:11 am #594312jewishnessParticipant
If your a guy do you or would you wear jeans?
I personally would never wear blue ones but I would wear black ones.January 19, 2011 12:34 pm at 12:34 pm #730586yeshivaguy1Participant
why wouldn’t you wear blue ones. Why would you have a problem with wearing a pair of pants just because they are blue. The whole black and white mentality has gone way too far.January 19, 2011 1:07 pm at 1:07 pm #730587believer3Participant
Why would you wear black ones then? Do you like the box it puts you in? Wearing jeans is a statement in our community.January 19, 2011 2:13 pm at 2:13 pm #730588SacrilegeMember
Can girls chime in? I wear Jeans (skirts). Only blue ones, not black ones. 🙂January 19, 2011 2:19 pm at 2:19 pm #730589mikehall12382Member
I would only wear white jeans and a black shirt…so at least I would keeping consistent with the uniform, albeit in reverse.January 19, 2011 2:37 pm at 2:37 pm #730590SJSinNYCMember
Yes.January 19, 2011 2:50 pm at 2:50 pm #730591
I don’t, but I would.January 19, 2011 2:59 pm at 2:59 pm #730592mamashtakahMember
I wear blue jeans. I wear them to work when I can, I wear them to shule, I wear them to travel. They are the most comfortable pants I own. In my community, wearing jeans is not a statement.January 19, 2011 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #730593dunnoMember
“Can girls chime in? I wear Jeans (skirts). Only blue ones, not black ones. 🙂 “
LolJanuary 19, 2011 3:21 pm at 3:21 pm #730594Feif UnParticipant
believer3, you just made a bigger statement about your community: “We judge you based on how you dress, not on how you act.”January 19, 2011 3:31 pm at 3:31 pm #730595agittayidParticipant
I wear blue jean shorts.
Really comfortable in the summer.January 19, 2011 3:32 pm at 3:32 pm #730596charliehallParticipant
I don’t currently own any, but I don’t see the problem with them. In Europe they are very fashionable. The Levi’s boutique is on the same block in Rome as the Armani and Gucci boutiques.January 19, 2011 3:34 pm at 3:34 pm #730597bptParticipant
Used to; don’t anymore. (Shidduchim, you understand)
Unless Dockers count as jeansJanuary 19, 2011 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #730598aries2756Participant
Is this the other side of the TV question?January 19, 2011 3:47 pm at 3:47 pm #730599flowersParticipant
“believer3, you just made a bigger statement about your community: “We judge you based on how you dress, not on how you act.” “
Nowhere does believer3 make any statement about how someone acts. Where do you see that she/he does?
In Judiasm, both how you dress and how you act make a statement. Kosher is both inside and outside.January 19, 2011 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #730600
I would, when I thought it appropriate, such as fixing the car, the roof, hiking. Color, no thoughts.
Believer. Can you elaborate?
“Do you like the box it puts you in?”
What box does it put you in?
“Wearing jeans is a statement in our community.”
What do you believe that statement is?January 19, 2011 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #730601
L’fi aniyas daati…
There is nothing INHERENTLY wrong with wearing (blue or black) jeans.
The question is, does your style of dress identify you with some particular group or hashkafah?
In some locales it does, in some locales it does not.
The same goes for colored shirts and many other articles of clothing that in SOME places are a reflection of a person’s frumkeit.
People must realize however the situation from BOTH sides.
By that I mean that those who feel that (no jeans) black pants, and white shirt ARE the required look, should realize that a person who does not come from a place or background where that is the norm is not necessarily one bit less frum than you are. They MAY even be MORE frum than you are.
ON THE OTHER HAND, those who DO come from places where jeans, etc. are NOT considered an inappropriate way of dressing for a frum person, must realize that for some frum Yidden, that way of dressing IS considered goyish, and that while it may be perfectly fine in SOME neighborhoods or cities (and have no negative connotation) dressing that way in a place like Boro Park (for example) will cause many people to view you (albeit incorrectly perhaps) as a less than truly frum Yid.
We definitely have some ideas about dress that are not always accurate. Example: In general, in N.Y. a knit kipa is associated with more modern orthodox and/or (the dreaded) Zionist chevra. But, go into Meah She’arim in Yerushalayim and you will see MANY wearing large white knit yarmalkas – and of course they are very far from modern orthodox OR Zionist!
Let’s try to not pre-judge each other or label each other negatively.January 19, 2011 4:06 pm at 4:06 pm #730602memoMember
Depending on the community..jeans are very street-like and casual…wearing the jeans adds to a certain look that many frum people try hard to avoid….
I’m not saying they are bad or the jean wearers aren’t Torah abiding but the majority of the frum community emphasis to maintain a certain dignified look and appearance
—’cause whatever argument you have to refute this in the end of the day the way you look is the way you’ll be looked at!January 19, 2011 4:09 pm at 4:09 pm #730603
believer3, you just made a bigger statement about your community: “We judge you based on how you dress, not on how you act.”
Where in believer3’s message did he or she state that the community judged people based on how they dress and not how they acted?
Clothing does not tell you who someone really is. How a person dresses, however, makes a statement about how he or she wants to be perceived by others. If one wants to communicate that he means business, he wears a business suit. If one wants to appear as more relaxed or casual in a work setting, he might go without a tie and jacket.
I agree that we should not judge others based on externals, but all clothing sends a message. Wearing a leather jacket over a shirt with a skull on it is equivalent to putting a sign around your neck reading, “Hi, I am a biker.” And if, in a particular commununity, everyone wears black slacks, a pair of jeans does send a message, not because jeans are bad or the person wearing them is bad, but because the jeans stand out. Just like I stand out at work because I wear a kippah and have tzitzis hanging out.January 19, 2011 4:16 pm at 4:16 pm #730604
What do you believe that statement is?
I don’t think there is yet a clear statement. It just stands out in some places. That is why the issue of wearing jeans brings out the righteous indignation of “don’t judge a person based on his clothing!!” whereas all would agree that a person sporting a mohawk and enough facial piercings to set off a metal detector is certainly making a statement. Even though the “don’t judge a person based on his clothing” would equally apply.January 19, 2011 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #730605smartcookieMember
Can someone say whats wrong with jeans?
in my community it’s not the norm to wear it, but I was wondering if Anyone know specifically whether it’s wrong /right & why?January 19, 2011 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #730606nfgo3Member
I hope I am not hearing snobbery among the commenters here. Blue jeans – I prefer the term “dungarees” – are necessary or advisable for anyone who does manual labor – carpenters, electricians, masons, roofers, construction laborers, warehousemen, among others. Not all frummers are white-collar workers. Flannel and worsted have no place at a construction site or in a warehouse, and Yidden who work in those trades and jobs are as frum as any of us.January 19, 2011 4:26 pm at 4:26 pm #730607
What does it mean you would? If you dont obviously you wouldn’t duh?January 19, 2011 4:33 pm at 4:33 pm #730608mikehall12382Member
it’s not what you wear, it’s how you act and treat others…January 19, 2011 4:39 pm at 4:39 pm #730610
“maintain a certain dignified look and appearance”
My heimishe plumber, electrician, mechanic and roofer all respectfully disagree with you and believe jeans are quite the appropriate attire.
“the way you look is the way you’ll be looked at!”
The heimishe plumber, electrician, mechanic and roofer know this all too well. Its why they dont show up in a jacket and tie.
“jeans are very street-like and casual.”
Is there anything wrong with being casual? Surely you are aware that black is the preferred color of the street.
“in the end of the day the way you look is the way you’ll be looked at!”
Sad, but unfortunately true.January 19, 2011 4:44 pm at 4:44 pm #730611
“If you dont obviously you wouldn’t duh?”
I dont eat sushi. doesnt mean I wouldnt.January 19, 2011 4:53 pm at 4:53 pm #730612
it’s not what you wear, it’s how you act and treat others…
What is with the assumption of mutual exclusivity? Has anyone said here that only clothing matters and not actions?
Do you disagree that clothing can make a statement?January 19, 2011 5:33 pm at 5:33 pm #730613cantoresqMember
Are there any connotations attached to denim shirts? How about denim underwear?January 19, 2011 5:37 pm at 5:37 pm #730614
I agree with you. Jeans are very appropriate when engaged in tasks that could stain or rip a more expensive pair of pants. I was under the assumption that a more general wearing was being considered, e.g., wearing jeans to shul or yeshiva/kollel, or to work.January 19, 2011 5:51 pm at 5:51 pm #730615charliehallParticipant
“Jeans are very appropriate when engaged in tasks that could stain or rip a more expensive pair of pants.”
In much of Europe, jeans can be very expensive. They are considered fashion wear rather than the casual wear that they are in the US.January 19, 2011 5:53 pm at 5:53 pm #730616
Too many assumptions all around.January 19, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #730617
real-brisker, I don’t because I am in yeshiva and the dress code is to wear dress pants, but I have no halachic or hashkafic objection to wearing jeans, and I would probably do so if I had a different occupation.January 19, 2011 5:56 pm at 5:56 pm #730618SJSinNYCMember
Might I remind everyone that it was just MLK day?January 19, 2011 6:03 pm at 6:03 pm #730619mewhoParticipant
i think its much more important for someone to wear a pair of dress pants and white shirt when he is doing somethng that is not proper, like going into a treif store. if i saw a young man in blue jeans come out of kosher delight and a man in black slacks and white shirt come out of mcdonalds (both jewish of course) i would sooner set up the one in black pants for a shidduch then the blue jeans guy. after all, its not the midos and person that counts, its what they look like or what kind of table cloth they use etc.
the whole world has gone bonkers, manyare busy looking at clothes, cars, etc and ignoring the things that are most important like the midos and character of the person.
time to open up our eyes folks and see whats inside, not the gift wrapping..January 19, 2011 6:07 pm at 6:07 pm #730620Derech HaMelechMember
I think the reason why segments of the population are noheg to wear suits is because a ben melech wouldn’t dress like a casual worker, he is a ben melech. Even the worker recognizes his royal status and does not remain in his work clothes when he is not working. Just like on Shabbos we wear even nicer clothing in added respect to the royalty of the Shabbos Malkasa. But even during the week we are still bnei melech that are constantly aware of before whom we are standing.
This is just my opinion, please don’t hurt me.January 19, 2011 6:12 pm at 6:12 pm #730621not IMember
mewho- why does it have to boil down to shidduchim in the end?
What is the connection?January 19, 2011 6:13 pm at 6:13 pm #730622YW Moderator-80Member
both sides are being silly
yes middos and behavior are what counts, of course, and i dont believe anyone has said elsewise.
and yes clothes are a powerful tool. they CAN both express and affect, and identify the person.
and no you cant always judge a person by his clothes but yes they do often suggest certain ideas that the person probably has.
its not always black or white
(although sometimes it is black AND white)January 19, 2011 6:16 pm at 6:16 pm #730623bezalelParticipant
I personally would never wear blue ones but I would wear black ones.
Blue is the new Red.January 19, 2011 6:27 pm at 6:27 pm #730624ItcheSrulikMember
I am makpid to wear jeans (blue or black, doesn’t matter) whenever I am in Borough Park or Williamsburg to be mekayem the mitzvah of ??-??-?? ????, ???–????????? ??????, ??????? ?????; ???????, ??????, ????????, ?????? ???January 19, 2011 7:00 pm at 7:00 pm #730625KACH 613MemberJanuary 19, 2011 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #730626
apy – you dont eat sushi for no reason, right?January 19, 2011 7:20 pm at 7:20 pm #730627
yita – So you would not wear them, thats the point here.January 19, 2011 8:08 pm at 8:08 pm #730628
“apy” said he doesn’t eat sushi, but WOULD – MEANING there is nothing wrong with it, and at some point he might change his mind and choose to eat it – likewise for clothing choice.
“yitayningwut” did NOT say he would not wear them, he said due to where he is now, he doesn’t, but under different circumstances he might choose to wear them.
There ARE other valid opinions besides yours. Don’t put YOUR spin on what everyone else says, and don’t judge people’s frumkeit by the material their pants are made from.January 19, 2011 10:16 pm at 10:16 pm #730629
AOM – Firstly thanks for mishing arien and trying to answer up others. regarding apy – he said he doesnt eat sushi, now usualy you dont eat something only because of a specific reason, I doubt he meant the he pushet never got around to eat it. Thus being I belive when you say you dont Its obviously because you wouldn’t, natrually -no? Not because you would just you wouldnt BECAUSE THAT MAKES ZERO CENTS! now the same thing applies to what yita said. I think its the biggest lie when people say this shprach “Bietzem yes Punkt not” Its either yes or NO.January 20, 2011 3:44 am at 3:44 am #730630
Your logic is very faulty.
You are trying to say that because someone doesn’t, l’ma’aseh, do something, that it is proof that they know it is really wrong to do. You used “APY”s mashal about not eating sushi as a raiya.
Just because someone chooses for themself to not do something (like not eating sushi), does NOT mean it is inherently wrong to do, or that they believe that it is wrong for OTHER people TO do.
I’m sure there are things that YOU do not do. For example, maybe you do not play golf. Does that mean it is asur to play golf? Maybe you don’t travel to South America. Does that mean it is wrong for a Yid to travel to South America? Of course not.
THAT would make zero sense.
You and your chevra do not feel it is appropriate for you to wear jeans. That’s fine, just as it’s fine for you to choose to not play golf or travel to South America. You are entitled to your opinions, BUT that does NOT mean that any of those things are inherently wrong, or that doing them makes one less frum.January 20, 2011 3:53 am at 3:53 am #730631stuck in brooklynMember
ummmm… from a girls perspective… frum men wearing jeans….. a real turn OFF… i’m not saying for all girls.. but many…January 20, 2011 4:24 am at 4:24 am #730632
AOM – I am not contrasting if I would not do something, then its wrong for someone else to do it. Rather I am arguing on the question of “would you wear jeans?” This question makes ZERO cents! What in the world does it mean would you? EITHER YOU DO or YOU DONT. Saying that you would doesnt help, Because you dont.January 20, 2011 4:31 am at 4:31 am #730633Sender AvMember
When cutting the grass or other form of similar activity.January 20, 2011 5:59 am at 5:59 am #730634☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
It depends on one’s family background. If his father and grandfather did, he will. If his father and grandfather did not, he will not. It’s all in the jeans.January 20, 2011 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #730635
No, that is not what I am saying, and thank you AOM.
I don’t wear jeans because it is not in accordance with the dress code of the yeshiva. The dress code is to dress formally, i.e. white button down shirt and dress pants, and jeans do not currently fit that category at this place and time. When I am on vacation I do not dress this way specifically, because all it is is a dress code for my yeshiva. This past summer I walked around one day with plaid shorts, a T shirt, and flip flops, and another day with my white shirt and dress pants, because aside from the dress code issue I have nothing against wearing whatever I want. Would you understand what I am saying better if I would say I don’t wear jeans because I am a police officer and it is against protocol? You seem to be stuck on making me out to be a two faced hypocrite. Maybe you’ve had experiences with such people, but that isn’t a reason to assume everyone is like that.
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