February 21, 2013 12:04 am at 12:04 am #608302
Counselors and community members are reporting a rise in divorce in the Orthodox Jewish community, and some say Facebook is to blame.
Klein said that seeing what other people have and how they live can lead to comparisons that can and do contribute to divorce”.
IMHO, in pre-Facebook times no one saw luxuries and different lifestyles? Nonsense! If anything, with the internet, people are able to see all the society people with loads of money who are depressed… and all the thieves and perverts who go to jail…showing the benefits of living an innocent life.February 21, 2013 1:57 am at 1:57 am #935155
There are commercials on TV (even on the Fox News channel) telling men to check a website so that they can cheat on their wives. Anyone who thinks the internet won’t affect their spouse or their teenage children must be really really naive.February 21, 2013 2:39 am at 2:39 am #935156
@ari-free not sure what that has to do with facebook
in addition divorce in the frum world was on the rise before facebook came into existence.
My rosh yeshiva said that the reason behind the rise of divorces today is a lack of honesty between spouses both before and after marriage.February 21, 2013 2:58 am at 2:58 am #935157
And what did he say is the cause of decreasing honesty between spouses?February 21, 2013 3:10 am at 3:10 am #935158
Social media includes anything that makes it easier to check out other people from the privacy of your own computer. Not just facebook.February 21, 2013 3:36 am at 3:36 am #935159
Why is checking people out on Facebook any more damaging to marriages than checking people out on the subway or in the neighborhood? Those whom we know, we know all about them anyhow. Those whom we dont know, are strangers, and about as far from our lives as movie-stars, etc.
Knowing that someone has 400 Facebook friends means anything? Theyre nicer people?
IMHO, I think the rise in divorces has more to do with changing levels of Frumkeit as the years pass. Two people with different levels of Frumkeit have a harder time agreeing on lots of issues, including how to raise the kids, a biggie.February 21, 2013 3:54 am at 3:54 am #935160HealthParticipant
chalilavchas – Pray tell – who’s going on Facebook and causing the divorce – the man or the woman?
If it’s the man, then it’s good news – more women on the market.
If it’s the woman, then it’s bad news – less women on the market.
(Not physically, but less for a Ben -Torah to marry.)February 21, 2013 3:59 am at 3:59 am #935161Ðash®Participant
Has there been a change in trend since 2006 (When FB opened up to the public)? Even if you find such a trend, you may have to take into account another website that also started in 2006.February 21, 2013 3:59 am at 3:59 am #935162Veltz MeshugenerMember
IMO, the reason for the rise in divorces is that people need to daven more. Also, the reason for the rise in Facebook usage is that people need to daven more.February 21, 2013 4:09 am at 4:09 am #935163
Claiming that going on Facebook is causing divorces is like claiming that heart attacks are caused by indigestion. There might be a connection (unhappy people with roving eyes look all over the place), but one doesnt cause the other.February 21, 2013 4:12 am at 4:12 am #935164
@DY he meant in regards to questions of hashkafa or otherwise people pretend to be something they are not, when they are dating and then when they get married and the wife/husband discovers there spouse is not really who they made themselves out to be … the rest is history. They may divorce immediately or they may hold out for years but many times the results are the same. As he is on the front lines and has dealt with these types of situations many times I would tend to believe him.February 21, 2013 4:19 am at 4:19 am #935165
He didn’t specifically explain the causes for this phenomena but in general the way people view hashkafa visa vis dating is very different than the way people viewed it 30 years ago. A protracted explanation would involve discussing how our chinuch system evolved and partially caused this dating/faking game. I do not believe I am covering any new ground over here.February 21, 2013 4:55 am at 4:55 am #935166
I think one has to be careful with words such as “blame” or “cause.” I don’t think think that social media is the cause of the problem. It’s just that if someone already has a problem, the technology would make it easier to act upon it.February 21, 2013 5:24 am at 5:24 am #935167
A protracted explanation would involve discussing how our chinuch system evolved and partially caused this dating/faking game.
Do you mean every guy and girl needing to be the Best Boy/Girl in Hatzenplatz because theyll do a good Shidduch and will live happily ever after, even if they cant possibly be and/or dont want to be the Best Boy/Girl in Hatzenplatz, but the Hanhala and often Mommy and Tatty…February 21, 2013 5:33 am at 5:33 am #935168
Claiming that going on Facebook is causing divorces is like claiming that heart attacks are caused by indigestion. There might be a connection (unhappy people with roving eyes look all over the place), but one doesnt cause the other.
Certainly, the fact that people with marital problems report issues with internet/social media doesn’t prove which is the cause and which is the effect. It makes a whole lot of sense that unhappy people look elsewhere, as you say, but the easy access makes it more likely, and there have certainly been plenty of cases where the cause was someone giving in to the temptation of the internet, causing the unhappiness.
It’s way too simple to blame the higher divorce rate on the internet/social media; there are many factors. There’s no question in my mind, though, that it hasn’t helped.February 21, 2013 5:35 am at 5:35 am #935169
Jbaldy22, you’ve just described the process, but haven’t offered an explanation.February 21, 2013 9:46 am at 9:46 am #935170
To blame Fox News and the like for a persons infidelity is like blaming someone’s weight problem with restaurant billboards. My husband and I watch Fox News and we are still holding on to a strong marriage. Do you ever think it’s the fact that the rebbes and our society try to close us off from the outside world so much that it just makes the taboo more tantalizing? I do and I know a lot of other people that do as well. ” don’t go into manhattan unless its an absolute necessity”. ” don’t open your eyes at a chassunah chas vshalom you will see the heel of a woman dancing”. ” don’t read the ny times or wsj there might be a spread with a picture of that female cogresswoman and c’v it exites someone”. I think that by making every single little aspect of life seem so dangerous to us, that it is intact pushing people to explore that which is so “taboo” and giving a possible intriguing and exciting out for someone in a rut or boring marriage.February 21, 2013 12:03 pm at 12:03 pm #935171
Its easy to put the blame on facebook, the internet, Tzinut, etc for things, Its takes the blame off more fundamental problems that are the real cause.
These are just the symptonsFebruary 21, 2013 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #935172lesschumrasParticipant
Ons factor is that in my parents generation, people, particularly women, stayed in terrible, abusive marriages. Today we recognize that it does the kids no good go grow up in thatenvironmentFebruary 21, 2013 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #935173golferParticipant
Definitely a good point, lesschum. We don’t know whether or not relationships between husbands and wives are getting worse. We only know that the divorce rate is going up.February 21, 2013 2:40 pm at 2:40 pm #935174sw33tMember
no other words.February 21, 2013 2:44 pm at 2:44 pm #935175a maminParticipant
morahrach, what you say is pure apikorsis! Are you really in chinuch? If so, we’re in trouble!! You are blaming restrictions of our holy Torah as excuses for infidelity??I think you should listen to what Rabbi Wallerstein says about social media.February 21, 2013 2:49 pm at 2:49 pm #935176
I am sorry to hear that you grew up in a terribly abusive environment,but you can hardly infer that your situation is the norm.
However, you have all naysayers about the shidduch system who say that people met on their own back then and therefore they chose more suited mates. Quite the contrary to what you are avering.
You have to make up your mind.
As an aside, there is no question that frequenting social media can certainly affect even a healthy relationship. When one statrts sharing all sorts of personal stuff with others, it can lead to devoloping relationships that can harm an exisiting healthy relationship.
And Facebook is all about that, sharing stuff and then interacting. Do you really think that intercating so cannot poosibly lead to relationships where there shouldn’t be?
How else does one build a realtionship if not through sharing and social media encourages sharing well beyond what used to be typical. And may lead to having one’s guard down.
It is not just “symptons”, it can actually be the cause.February 21, 2013 3:25 pm at 3:25 pm #935177
It CAN be THE cause. It MAY be a contributing cause. It might have nothing at all to do with it. Every case is different. Social media is “seductive”, but there is also plenty in print media, as well as audio/visual media that is seductive. The common denominator is the internet and the privacy it affords even in ones own home. 50 years ago, it was a motel 150 miles away from home. The underlying reasons may not have changed, technology has helped speed up the process by which some of those underlying problems come to the fore.
Social media is an easy and convenient whipping boy. It is easy to find circumstance where social media was a major factor, it is not intellectually honest to then project this problem on all, or most situations.February 21, 2013 3:27 pm at 3:27 pm #935178
It is also “very seductive” to project that one is the ideal yeshiva bachur or bais yackov girl in order to facilitate ones shidduch.February 21, 2013 3:30 pm at 3:30 pm #935179
If someone is happy in their life and marriage, they are not looking elsewhere for satisfactionFebruary 21, 2013 3:46 pm at 3:46 pm #935180
So we are safe to assume then that you are not happy in your life and marriage?
Because you seem to frequent the coffee room for social interaction.February 21, 2013 3:56 pm at 3:56 pm #935181RamchasParticipant
From ZD Net:
Facebook is cited in 1 out of every 5 divorces in the United States, according to the Loyola University Health System. Furthermore, 81 percent of the country’s top divorce attorneys say they have seen an increase in the number of cases using social networking evidence during the past five years, according to a recent survey by the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers (AAML). Last but not least, Facebook is the unrivaled leader for online divorce evidence with 66 percent citing it as the primary source, the AAML said.February 21, 2013 4:03 pm at 4:03 pm #935182
I love to interact with friends like Nisht.February 21, 2013 4:10 pm at 4:10 pm #935183popa_bar_abbaParticipant
Facebook is cited in 1 out of every 5 divorces in the United States, according to the Loyola University Health System.
Sure, but that is irrelevant. Facebook is how people communicate, so of course that is how the objectionable communication happened. And most divorces have some sort of objectionable communication with others, once the relationship starts going sour.February 21, 2013 4:18 pm at 4:18 pm #935184
please don’t. I would not want you to involve me in any way as the cause of your problems. Nor as a sympton.February 21, 2013 4:23 pm at 4:23 pm #935185golferParticipant
nishtdayng, do you feel that you are jeopardizing the stability of zdad’s marriage?
Zdad, with friends like that who needs…February 21, 2013 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #935186
“Facebook is cited in 1 out of every 5 divorces in the United States, according to the Loyola University Health System.”
A certain one syllable word is cited at even higher percentage than that.February 21, 2013 5:20 pm at 5:20 pm #935187
He says that it is a sympton (sic). I do not want to be considered his sympton.February 21, 2013 5:29 pm at 5:29 pm #935188
Some here are symptons of many things, however none of them are in my personal lifeFebruary 21, 2013 5:31 pm at 5:31 pm #935189Torah613TorahParticipant
Let’s make up a study that blames X for Y. Because X is correlated with Y.
Heart attacks are associated with melting pavement, but both are caused by heat.February 21, 2013 5:42 pm at 5:42 pm #935190
So you are retracting your comment of earlier
“If someone is happy in their life and marriage, they are not looking elsewhere for satisfaction”
Ok. Fine, that is where I was getting. That your comment is not even close to the rule.
The fact is someone can stray even if they have a perfectly happy marriage. And the wise thing to do is to avoid things that can cause straying.
I am not saying facebook will always cause straying or even does so a significant amount of the time, however one can never be sure (not my words, its the gemara’s words) and it is therefore samrt to be cautious.February 21, 2013 6:15 pm at 6:15 pm #935191
I am not retracting anything.
there is a well known bulletin board website where people sell things , and there is a personal ad section as well, search for the word frum on it.
If you are happy in your life you are not seeking satisfaction elsewhere. I stand by 100%February 21, 2013 6:32 pm at 6:32 pm #935192interjectionParticipant
“Facebook is cited in 1 out of every 5 divorces in the United States, according to the Loyola University Health System. Furthermore, 81 percent of the country’s top divorce attorneys say they have seen an increase in the number of cases using social networking evidence during the past five years, according to a recent survey by the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers (AAML). Last but not least, Facebook is the unrivaled leader for online divorce evidence with 66 percent citing it as the primary source, the AAML said.”
That’s like saying that since 52% of accidents occur within a five-mile radius of home and 69% of accidents occur within a ten-mile radius of home, the conclusion being that people become more relaxed with their driving as they approach their home. In reality, however, a person spends more than 52% of their total driving within that 5 mile radius and still more than 69% of their total driving within their ten-mile radius.
You can blame the social networking sites but really if someone is looking for a tool to stray, they’ll find it and the social networking sites happen to be easiest to access.February 21, 2013 6:46 pm at 6:46 pm #935193
There is an old saying
there are Lies and Statistics
You can make statistics say anything to support your positionFebruary 21, 2013 7:06 pm at 7:06 pm #935194
What does “there is a well known bulletin board website where people sell things ” have to do with whether Facebook can cause a rift even if someone does not start out seeking something for “sale”?
You are completely missing the point. It is not only someone who starts out seeking sometthing when he not satisfied. The site you are referring to, if I guess correctly is not a social site, it is a place for arranging hook ups. We are talking about social media, something totally different.February 21, 2013 7:09 pm at 7:09 pm #935195
“There is an old saying
there are Lies and Statistics”
Can you cite this? I have never heard this old saying.
You can say about anything that it is an old saying, it does not mean that it is so.
He self-moderated part of it. But it does exist.February 21, 2013 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #935196haifagirlParticipant
Mark Twain said it.February 21, 2013 9:10 pm at 9:10 pm #935197
A mamin.. Actually no it’s not. And I did not say Facebook is good, I just am saying that it is ridiculous to blame it for the end of someone’s marriage. And please don’t preach to me about chinuch!!! You are here, on the computer talking to a room or mixed gender yidden. I am too and I am fine with that, but I am not saying that you are spewing apikorsus. If someone in this coffee room is going to tell me they follow every last detail ever last smidge and speck that the gedolim tell them to do, then I will resign from the CR! You my friend are not one of them because you are in here! So please take your nonsense elsewhere.
Before I even send I apologize if I was harsh but you were too.February 21, 2013 9:34 pm at 9:34 pm #935198a maminParticipant
morahrach: please reread your post. You were defaming the kovid of Rabbonim.As far as internet is concerned, mine is filtered, is yours?February 22, 2013 1:13 am at 1:13 am #935199RsozMember
MoraRach, how long have you been married?February 22, 2013 2:33 am at 2:33 am #935200springbok007Participant
Emotional cheating is almost as bad as physical. This is more like the preamble the physical. Remember if you walk into a fish shop, only to browse and do not buy the smell remains on you irrespective.
So people make conscience choices that you do not expose yourself in harms way, no matter good your marriage is. A malach is perfect, we humans, bene odom, are not. Try rolling the dice in roulette, is this really any different?
We ask H-shem everyday not to put through nisyonos, don’t create them either.
??? ????February 22, 2013 2:46 am at 2:46 am #935201
What if you have a joint fb with your husband like I do? He didn’t care to have one so I made a family one. I feel like that’s different then having desperate ones especially if you think it is as dangerous many of you are saying here.February 22, 2013 2:48 am at 2:48 am #935202adamsParticipant
She has a point but its’ true about any online social sites. including this one. Much time is wasted and one has to be on top of their game to control how much time you do spend, for each person there is some relaxation. FB is very good to locate old friends and for this reason I would never ban it for myself. Because I located someone who told me about a software developer who could help me, I have been blessed with continuous employment for over 3 years.
The point she makes easily extends to newspapers, any advertising, or most news items in general.
Everyone is looking for some magic potion that will make all the problems disappear but FB is only a symtom, that is abuse of FB in terms of time spent, what one does etc.February 22, 2013 4:51 am at 4:51 am #935203yytzParticipant
Divorce lawyers have pointed to Facebook and internet porn as being increasingly common causes of divorce. According to articles I’ve read, a typical thing that happens to (non-frum) people is that a married man will notice an old flame from high school or whatever on FB, and become “friends,” and communicate a bit, and this will lead to actually meeting and committing adultery. I’d be surprised if it’s a common cause of divorce among frum families. And I’m not sure it’s really true that divorce is increasing among frum Jews.
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