Facebook Is To Blame For Rising Orthodox Jewish Divorce Rate?

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  • #935258

    springbok007
    Participant

    has anyone heard of emotional cheating. People today are not empowered with the correct tools when transitioning from the yeshiva world to the big ugly outside world. Try anything once is the motto, consequences etc. We need some big changes in schools of thought to empower people in dealing with the outside world which needs to come from the top. Rabbi Twersky had a very controversial article recently to teach rabbonim in early detection of problem areas and redirect them to the appropriate source for kosher assistance. This is a good start, unfortunately it appears daas torah is not sufficient to save marriages.some require professional help.

    #935259

    Ash
    Participant

    @jbaldy22 You are being quite disingenuous. Facebook is a social networking tool and is built to encourage people to connect and socialise with each other.

    It has always been possible for a savvy user such as you to retain their privacy and only use Facebook for, say, socialising with family or male friends but this is not what Facebook itself is designed for, and time and time again they have proven that their goal is to make all their users connect with as many people as possible. That you as may use it “correctly” in with limited social connections is entirely besides the point.

    The entire Facebook business model is built around making it incredible simple to connect with anyone, to suggest people befriend others with similar interests or who are in some way related, and to update as many people as possible with what you like and what you’re doing. You may befriend only male friends, but one of them will almost certainly be a Facebook friend with someone else (wife, cousin) and these users will be suggested to you and you to them.

    Yes, they’ve recently been forced to improve their privacy options, after complaints from even the secular world about how difficult Facebook makes to to maintain private, closed connections with a limited number of people. Yes, it’s possible to lock down your privacy settings, ignore or reject friend requests from (say) girls but you’re fighting the tool, and there is always a massive risk that Facebook will push a notification at you, or suggest you as a friend to someone else in way that makes dodgy social contact. For instance, if a girl makes a friend request and you ignore it instead of rejecting it then her events and activities will show up in your news feed (“Gila just liked YBC album”) and this makes the temptation to connect and socialise a daily challenge. Again, this can be blocked out, but 99% of the users won’t do this and Facebook have repeatedly forced such social connection suggestions on users despite all the privacy settings.

    I have used Facebook, so please stop the “well you don’t understand it so you can’t criticise it” refrain. It’s getting fast old and is a poor rebuttal.

    The rabbonim have heard too many horror stories of the terrible ruinous effects of FB and it has rightly become chareidi ememy #1. Few rabbonim have used it, but after a short description understand exactly what it’s advantages and disadvantages are. They can comprehend the most intricate lomdus and they sure as heck can comprehend the social network paradigm and have far more experience than any of us about what can (lo aleinu) go wrong.

    The old argument about “it’s how you use it” can be made for almost anything. TV? Just watch educational programs. Internet? Just install filters and let your kids on unsupervised, it’s safe (right?). Guns? I’ll keep it locked in my draw. It’s not how we work. This is a chareidi forum and the concept of constructing gedarim should be a understood by any chareidi YWN user. Many have basically given a heter for the entire internet (for either work or necessity) but with a filter and yet somehow it’s impossible to give up this one part of the web called Facebook. Must everything be allowed for convenience?

    I do agree that for (say) long distance family updates Facebook can be great and almost the ideal tool but that in no way mitigates the terrible risk it brings with it. So live with the inconvenience, use tools that are less problematic such as Skype, Email and any number of tools that aren’t “social networks”. It’s very difficult for me to eat only glatt but if I want to call myself chareidi then I will accept the cost and inconvenience. And if I’m not chareidi, I won’t comment on YWN.

    #935260

    jbaldy22
    Member

    @ash I am not being disingenuous and some of your information is just plain inaccurate. If you look at the history of facebook it has always been designed to be limited to ur social circle and that is where it provides the greatest advantage. facebook actually is starting to charge for sending messages to people who you are not friends with. In addition I have ignored lots of people and not a single one of them ended up in my feed. And yes like everything else that means guns, internet, facebook and anything else you can come up with – if you dont know how to use them properly and make the proper gedarim than dont use them (as i keep on saying). You are creating a straw man here. I am not in favor of unfettered usage (or in the case of facebook any usage) by kids. And considering the fact that i got my apartment, dining room set, and my job through facebook you are going to have a hard time convincing me that it is just a convenience. I would not consider myself to be that facebook savvy and I have never had any of the issues you have listed. Most of the privacy concerns people in the secular world have had are of OTHER people seeing your stuff not vice versa. Your last paragraph betrays your ignorance because if you knew how teenagers were using instant messaging particularly AIM before facebook you wouldn’t be so quick to label it as a kosher option.

    #935262

    Health
    Participant

    Ash –

    +10; but he will have a comeback with his half truths No matter what. E/o knows when s/o is lying because Sheker Ain Lo Raglyim. So how do you fool people with a lie? Simple – add some truth and then you can fool yourself and others!

    #935263

    Health
    Participant

    jbaldy22 –

    I don’t have the time or energy to keep refuting your posts over & over. The only reason I’m doing it – is Not to convince you, but that you shouldn’t influence others.

    “1) Anything in excess is bad – alcohol in itself is an addictive substance facebook is not. Just because people like to do something and it drags them in does not make it an “addiction” case in point the APA still refuses to classify internet overuse as an addiction. Again you like asserting that things are similar that are in fact dissimilar.”

    First of all, not everything in excess is bad, but Facebook IS!

    If you do some research there are Psychologists that are calling it the way it is -“Internet Addiction Disorder”, “Facebook Addiction Disorder”. And the reason they are doing this is because people like you shouldn’t say these things aren’t possible to be addictions and pointing to the APA’s classification as proof. I don’t know if you really think the APA holds these things aren’t addicting or you’re trying to manipulate others. But the APA holds these things are addicting substances, but feel they don’t need their own classification because they fall under the classification of “Impulse Control”.

    “2) I was pointing out an obvious flaw in the study – it is what we call a skip in logic. The study assumes that all the kids involved were normal prior to facebook use and that facebook was the only cause. It also assumes that facebook overuse causes narcissism and other mental issues and not vice versa. That is what is called a correlation – causation flaw. As the study does not mention numbers we are left to our own devices.”

    Funny, you mean only you know how to do a study, not them. Actually if you would have looked it up -they didn’t do this at all. They used questionares. They asked people about their Mental Health history and then they looked at their responses about Facebook. Those without Psychological histories were still found to develop narcissism and other bad traits. Those with Psych histories -it exacerbated their conditions! But, nice try!

    “3) articles and studies on internet addiction predate facebook – there were actually a bunch done in the late 90’s. There were studies on the affects of computer games, staring at a screen for too long, and how google is changing the way our brains are wired and that people dont know how to think or do research properly anymore. A simple search through google scholar will provide you with tons of reputable articles on the subject. I dont think the cr will allow for the links though so i will not attempt to post them.”

    You could have cut & pasted them. But like I told you, yes there are other problems with excessive Internet usage esp. with regards to social networking (which FB is a part of), gambling sites and others. So what is your point? Yes, there are other dangers on the Net, but I don’t think this makes the whole Net bad -but obviously the Rabbonim disagree with this opinion. And even though they disagree – there are still many Frum sites and many Frum people on the Net.

    “4) with the gambling thing again just because gambling and drinking are addictions does not make anything else you assert addictions.”

    Again, it’s Not me who is making these assertions -it’s many Psychologists and other Mental Health Professionals!

    “5) Even if we assume that facebook is an addictive substance – which i dont believe it to be so – it is still not a reason to not have it anymore than it is a reason not to have cell phones despite that fact that people check it/are on it all day. the allure is to be constantly connected socially which is a basic human need. It is like saying people shouldnt eat food or breath because you might get addicted (you see what I just did there?)”

    It definitely is true that some people are becoming addicted to their devices, like cells, and this is also talked about in the research, but why does this negate FB as a problem? And the argument that cells are equal to FB is ridiculous. There are a lot of reasons for people to have cells like in emergencies (IE -911), but I know of No other reasons to have FB than social ones. It is addicting and causes bad traits (Middos), like narcissism and I’m not the one saying this – the Research is!

    #935264

    Health
    Participant

    jbaldy22 -“And yes like everything else that means guns, internet, facebook and anything else you can come up with – if you dont know how to use them properly and make the proper gedarim than dont use them (as i keep on saying). You are creating a straw man here.”

    How can you write guns and anything else together with Net & FB -the latter two are addicting substances?

    All your posts are full of denials about the evils of Facebook.

    I’m not a Mental Health Prof., but I know Denial is one of the symptoms of Addiction.

    #935265

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    Health: “I’m not a mental health prof…” Interesting. I was once a lifeguard who dealt with controlling children’s behaviors. Therefore, I’m equally a health professional and a mental health professional. I wonder how you’d distinguish between the two.

    The term “Addiction” requires a threshold amount of loss of self-control or bechira. I’m with jbaldy in the sense that I don’t buy Facebook usage as a typical cause of such loss.

    #935266

    Ash
    Participant

    @jbaldy “it has always been designed to be limited to ur social circle and that is where it provides the greatest advantage.

    You clearly don’t understand what Facebook really is or its business model if you think it’s about limited social circle. I leave it up to the readers to decide who’s right, it’s that ludicrous. (Hint: Look up why Google Plus concentrated on the Circles paradigm as a differentiator from FB.)

    If they do decide to charge for messages after the limited trial (unlikely in my opinion, although LinkedIn have this model), this is either as a spam-prevention or to encourage people friend more people, not less!

    I didn’t advocate IM, nor do I label it as a kosher option. Please re-read.

    I know it’s useful, and very convenient (and yes, probably addictive) but there’s no way it’s ok for a chareidi Jew no matter which way you look at it. It’s raison d’etre is encouraging social behviour that go against all our principles. There will always be individual exceptions who have very particular needs and know how to use it in an incredibly limited fashion but that (at the risk of repeating myself) is entirely besides the point.

    #935267

    jbaldy, you argue that Facebook can be used in a “kosher” way. While that may be true, it does not take away from the fact that Facebook facilitates all sorts of anything but kosher activities, and that there are plenty of horror stories where Facebook is indeed to blame. The argument that it can be used in a kosher way does not take away from the damage can do, and has done, when it is not used correctly.

    #935268

    About Time
    Participant

    .. And if I’m not chareidi, I won’t comment on YWN ?!

    #935269

    Ash
    Participant

    “.. And if I’m not chareidi, I won’t comment on YWN ?!”

    Yeah, ok that came out wrong.

    I meant it should be futile to come on YWN and try to convince a nominally chareidi readership that something as patently incompatible with chareidi Judaism as FB is fine, and frankly I was waiting for someone other than Health (who’s out on a wing) to jump in and make my point before I had to bother (I’m not a frequent commentor).

    I’m aware that there are many MO etc. commenters here (though I sometimes wish people would identify themselves as such, especially when discussing halachoh).

    #935270

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Ash

    In businesses more and more are using IM because you can talk to more than one person at a time with fairly quick response and there is a paper trail so there is no He Said/She Said and you can do it while doing something else

    #935271

    a mamin
    Participant

    ash: amazing clarity on your points made. Thank you!

    #935272

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Can someone explain to me, as if I were a 80 year old Luddite, why Facebook causes divorce?

    I consider myself rather tech and Internet savvy. I work in computers, and spend an unhealthy amount of time on the Internet. I can fully understand how looking at and reading inappropriate material can lead a person to very unrealistic expectations in a spouse. (This is not limited to men and pornography. It has been shown that women have similar sorts of expectations that come from certain kinds of “romantic” fiction.) But I just cannot figure out what the deal is with Facebook. I am near-completely ignorant of “Facebook culture” and “Facebook social circles”.

    I have a Facebook account, which I check maybe once day. Most of my friends are pretty boring, so I’m not exactly one to talk. But I just cannot understand what people see in Facebook that makes them so unhappy with their lives. You see pictures of your friends going to Israel, new babies, Channukah pictures, you’re chatting with old classmates. I’m not trying to criticize the idea, I’m just trying to understand it.

    #935273

    Health
    Participant

    frumnotyeshivish -“Therefore, I’m equally a health professional and a mental health professional. I wonder how you’d distinguish between the two.”

    I think you claim you’re a lawyer and I never called you out on this. But perhaps you are a lawyer as much as you are a Health & Mental Health Prof?!? I know I’m a Health Prof, no Matter how many people here in the CR don’t believe me. I just tell the truth, not like most lawyers I know.

    “The term “Addiction” requires a threshold amount of loss of self-control or bechira. I’m with jbaldy in the sense that I don’t buy Facebook usage as a typical cause of such loss.”

    Ya’see since I’m Not a Mental Health Prof., I didn’t make it up about Facebook. Everything I posted comes from Mental Health Professionals. So it’s you and JBaldy against the Mental Health Profession!

    #935274

    Health
    Participant

    Yserbius123 -“Can someone explain to me, as if I were a 80 year old Luddite, why Facebook causes divorce?”

    Noone claimed this and you know it. Are you 80?

    “But I just cannot figure out what the deal is with Facebook. I am near-completely ignorant of “Facebook culture” and “Facebook social circles”.

    I have a Facebook account, which I check maybe once day. Most of my friends are pretty boring, so I’m not exactly one to talk. But I just cannot understand what people see in Facebook that makes them so unhappy with their lives. You see pictures of your friends going to Israel, new babies, Channukah pictures, you’re chatting with old classmates. I’m not trying to criticize the idea, I’m just trying to understand it.”

    The fact is FB makes it easy to find people and socialize with them and they with you. Even innocent people who weren’t looking to do bad things can sometimes end up doing them. A Frum guy just being on it without trying to get away from their marriage and all of a sudden s/o from the opposite gender befriends them -Not all have the strength to pass such a temtation.

    #935275

    dolphina
    Member

    who was it that decided that anything in the world that, if used badly can cause bad results, is ‘assur’ because some people can’t resist temptation?

    Personally, i think it’s cool that i can see pictures of my friends and their families. Maybe i’m super-human and i am able to resist ??? (not sure what i’m resisting, but let’s just say).

    Facebook aside, if people spent more time worrying about their own issues and less looking around worrying about what everyone else is doing or wearing the world would be a better place.

    #935276

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    ANYTHING can be used badly

    Should we assur cars because they can kill someone or be driven on Shabbos and it can be addicting to drive.

    How about Food?

    Food addiction is a serious issue, Many people are overweight or suffer from Anorexia

    #935277

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    How about Food?

    REAL Machmirim don’t eat food unless it is for a Seudas Mitzva. Tznius Chumras are for Phony Machmirim.

    #935278

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    How about Food?

    REAL Machmirim don’t eat food unless it is for a Seudas Mitzva. Tznius Chumras are for Phony Machmirim.

    You might laugh at Food and Shopping addictions, they are real issues

    It is not a joke.

    #935279

    gavra_at_work
    Participant

    You might laugh at Food and Shopping addictions, they are real issues

    It is not a joke.

    Neither is Rav (the Amorah to whom I was refering, also known as Abba Aricha). Serious Machmir (didn’t deal with other people’s Tznius, but simply didn’t look outside his own 4 Amos, and yes, only ate by a seudas mitzva). And even Rav said:

    ?”? ?? ??? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ?????? ????? ??????

    (Eruvin)

    #935280

    haifagirl
    Participant

    Yserbius123 -“Can someone explain to me, as if I were a 80 year old Luddite, why Facebook causes divorce?”

    Noone claimed this and you know it. Are you 80?

    Noone claimed this? Really? From the OP:

    Counselors and community members are reporting a rise in divorce in the Orthodox Jewish community, and some say Facebook is to blame.

    #935281

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    I’m not on Facebook and I’m not divorced. Just adding a data point.

    #935282

    Curiosity
    Participant

    T613, neither am I… but we are both not married either.

    BLIMEY! I THINK I’VE GOT IT!

    Facebook doesn’t cause DIVORCES! It causes relationships built on shaky foundations and misleading representations of other people. It superficially causes people to appear like they have perfect lives and make everyone anticipate meeting a life partner who is as perfect as all the other humans on facebook! Makes so much sense…

    #935283

    Torah613Torah
    Participant

    Neither are you on Facebook, or neither are you divorced?

    I agree with your point. It sounds like people show off a lot on Facebook, which can only lead to jealousy in others.

    #935284

    1. Rabbonim have a selection bias – they only hear about the problems. Nobody goes to them to tell them that they use Facebook to keep in touch with their relatives in EY.

    2. As with most discussions on YWNCF, if it’s not black and white people ignore it. Also, people make up stories so they can have black and white reasons to be machmir on things. Not about Facebook specifically, but my extended family, who live in various places, use the internet to share details about our daily lives, mail baby pictures, purim pictures, wedding details to relatives who couldn’t make it, etc. Who’s to say that Hashem doesn’t want that? Why should I forgo that because R’ Aviner claims to know dozens of people (whom nobody else has ever met, and whose experience no sane person could replicate) who are “addicted to” and “got divorced because of” the internet?

    Claiming that Facebook is terrible is not only ridiculous on its face (lol) it diminishes other messages that might actually be worth spreading.

    #935285

    dolphina
    Member

    why do people who say they are not on facebook keep saying what people on facebook do? and then what that causes….and with such authority too. wow. a bunch of clairvoyants on yeshiva world coffee room.

    #935286

    Curiosity
    Participant

    Dolphina. I used to have facebook for a long time, and quit. And yes, I do believe that it’s a negative influence on many, many people (not all)… which is why I quit.

    #935287

    Health
    Participant

    dolphina -“who was it that decided that anything in the world that, if used badly can cause bad results, is ‘assur’ because some people can’t resist temptation?

    (not sure what i’m resisting, but let’s just say).

    Facebook aside, if people spent more time worrying about their own issues and less looking around worrying about what everyone else is doing or wearing the world would be a better place.”

    Guess what? It wasn’t the Rabbonim who decided FB is bad, but the Mental Health community. The Rabbonim hold all of the Net is Assur. Are you going to knock the Mental Health community like you do the Rabbonim?

    #935288

    Health
    Participant

    ZD -“ANYTHING can be used badly”

    Not everything, but a lot of things.

    “Should we assur cars because they can kill someone or be driven on Shabbos and it can be addicting to drive.

    How about Food?

    Food addiction is a serious issue, Many people are overweight or suffer from Anorexia”

    Now the comparisons are getting more illogical by the minute.

    I guess we can live without food, just like we can live without FB. And unnecessary travel Is Not a good thing because of the dangers on the road!

    #935289

    Health
    Participant

    haifagirl -“Yserbius123 -“Can someone explain to me, as if I were a 80 year old Luddite, why Facebook causes divorce?”

    Noone claimed this and you know it. Are you 80?

    Noone claimed this? Really? From the OP:

    Counselors and community members are reporting a rise in divorce in the Orthodox Jewish community, and some say Facebook is to blame.”

    This was simple reading comprehension, not grammar.

    He wanted to know if FB caused divorces. And to that I answered -“Noone claimed this and you know it.” If he needs to be explained like an 80 yo -then noone is talking to 80 yo’s – the claim of divorce was Not on them. I explained the prob for e/o else right away – afterwards.

    #935290

    haifagirl
    Participant

    This was simple reading comprehension, not grammar.

    Yes, Health. This is a simple reading comprehension issue. But you seemed to have missed the boat.

    First, Yserbius123 asked, “Can someone explain to me, . . . why Facebook causes divorce?”

    Then you responded, “Noone claimed this and you know it.”

    As I pointed out, the OP said, “Counselors and community members are reporting a rise in divorce in the Orthodox Jewish community, and some say Facebook is to blame.”

    Obviously someone is claiming Facebook is causing divorce, or do you have a different definition of “blame”?

    #935291

    Health
    Participant

    haifagirl -“As I pointed out, the OP said, “Counselors and community members are reporting a rise in divorce in the Orthodox Jewish community, and some say Facebook is to blame.”

    Obviously someone is claiming Facebook is causing divorce, or do you have a different definition of “blame”?”

    I thought I was clear enough in my previous explanation, but I guess not.

    I understood his question and I answered it. In the first part of my answer I was being sarcastic/joking. If he claimed to be 80 years old -to this I responded – noone ever claimed 80 year olds were getting divorced because of FB. I then explained why it’s causing divorce in younger populations.

    #935292

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Health: So people on Facebook do what exactly that leads them to divorce?

    #935293

    Health
    Participant

    Yserbius123 -“Health: So people on Facebook do what exactly that leads them to divorce?”

    I guess you forgot already -it’s near the top of the page.

    From above:

    “The fact is FB makes it easy to find people and socialize with them and they with you. Even innocent people who weren’t looking to do bad things can sometimes end up doing them. A Frum guy just being on it without trying to get away from their marriage and all of a sudden s/o from the opposite gender befriends them -Not all have the strength to pass such a temptation.”

    #935294

    haifagirl
    Participant

    I thought I was clear enough in my previous explanation, but I guess not.

    I understood his question and I answered it. In the first part of my answer I was being sarcastic/joking. If he claimed to be 80 years old -to this I responded – noone ever claimed 80 year olds were getting divorced because of FB. I then explained why it’s causing divorce in younger populations.

    I apologize for misunderstanding you. Since he never claimed he was 80, nor did he claim that Facebook was causing 80-year-olds to get divorced, I didn’t understand that your “sarcastic/joking” response was to something he never said.

    #935295

    Health
    Participant

    haifagirl -“I apologize for misunderstanding you. Since he never claimed he was 80, nor did he claim that Facebook was causing 80-year-olds to get divorced, I didn’t understand that your “sarcastic/joking” response was to something he never said.”

    He said something about 80 yo’s and here it is:

    “as if I were a 80 year old Luddite”.

    This was enough for me to make a crack. How come you still can’t get it after two times of me explaining it?

    #935296

    Mobe613
    Member

    i think you have to be careful not to be facebook friends with any goyim or non-yeshivish jews. once you do that you can see all their non-tznius pictures and all the goyishe parties they are attending and it is mamesh like having the yeitzer hara in your own home. but if you are only friend with erlicha yiddin it shouldnt be a problem… except that sometimes you can see your friend’s friends and then they might have goyishe or nonreligious friends so you have the same problem

    #935297

    haifagirl
    Participant

    He said . . .

    “as if I were a 80 year old Luddite”.

    This was enough for me to make a crack.

    Okay, so you made a crack, but it had nothing to do with what he said.

    I thought I was clear enough in my previous explanation, but I guess not.

    I understood his question and I answered it. In the first part of my answer I was being sarcastic/joking. If he claimed to be 80 years old –to this I responded – noone ever claimed 80 year olds were getting divorced because of FB. I then explained why it’s causing divorce in younger populations.

    He never claimed to be 80 years old, nor did he claim 80-year-olds were getting divorced. So to what were you responding?

    And after three times, I still don’t get it. Perhaps somebody else can explain it to me since we seem to have a communication problem.

    #935298

    Yserbius123
    Participant

    Mobe613: If you think that whatever problems people are having with Facebook involves people from other walks of life, you are severely naive.

    haifagirl: I feel like I’ve started a fight on something that I don’t really understand.

    Health: Thanks a lot. I guess I didn’t realize how prevalent the issue is. Still, I believe that if a person wanted to do an aveira 15 years ago, he didn’t need the Internet. It’s possible that it’s common to use Facebook as a heichi timtza, but I doubt that the divorce rates are any higher because of it.

    #935299

    jbaldy22
    Member

    I am not going to keep on beating the proverbial dead horse here as I doubt anyone here is becoming convinced of anything. I see that people are just getting more upset and entrenched in their opinions. If you are doing what you believe is right and have the backing of your rabbonim ma tov uma naim. I apologize if I offended anyone here.

    @ash I am sure there are plenty of people in the cr that have facebook. and the chareidi comments are just plain hilarious. I don’t think you have a monopoly on what charedi ideology is or isnt as far as i know but there is a sizable portion of the cr who agrees with me so lets not go around labeling people or say who should or shouldn’t comment.

    #935300

    🐵 ⌨ Gamanit
    Participant

    “as if I were a 80 year old Luddite”.

    He said to talk to him as if he were an 80 year old. So Health replied as if he were an 80 year old telling him that it’s not a problem for someone of his age…

    #935301

    haifagirl
    Participant

    “as if I were a 80 year old Luddite”.

    He said to talk to him as if he were an 80 year old. So Health replied as if he were an 80 year old telling him that it’s not a problem for someone of his age…

    Thank you. Now I get it. (I think.)

    #935302

    Ash
    Participant

    @jbaldy22 Please re-read my later comment about the broadly chareidi nature of commenters, I’m not preventing you commenting merely advising that it should be an exercise in futility if we still have a broadly chareidi user base.

    I’ve been on CR for over 5 years but I don’t generally comment. The reason is that I find the views overall in line with chareidi ideology and many of the debates with the various MO (etc.) posters reasonable and healthy and don’t need my input (and I don’t usually have the time). I also don’t like preaching.

    In this case, it bothered me enough that there was no commenter willing to spell out the likely effects of Facebook use, that I joined in.

    It’s actually a tough argument to make, like many takonos that restrict our freedom of modern technology it’s a battle against the tide. You’re correct that you can’t just compare it to nightclub or suchlike, and leave it at that. FB is more complex and more insidious than that, but it behoves us all to actually understand what it.

    The simplest legitimate comparison is to the unfiltered internet itself. Incredible useful, incredibly dangerous.

    If there was some way of filtering Facebook so that it could be used without significant risk, I would likely agree with you. There isn’t, precisely because FB is all about encouraging you to interact with anyone who is some way related and it’s almost impossible for your “social graph” not to include people that you shouldn’t be freely socialising with, and for FB to encourage you to interact with them.

    You may use it for now without ill-effect, but without realising what FB really is. The social pleasure and convenience it provides you is blinding you to the huge inherent risks, and that you apparently have yet to encounter the more insidious side of FB. I hope I made this point clearly enough in my earlier posts above (and in a follow-up) that I don’t have to belabour the point.

    I’m not actually getting involved the point of this thread, which is whether FB causes increases in divorce or not, merely countering your assertion that FB is ok.

    Your “sizeable portion of CR” is a few commenters on this rather low-profile thread. I sincerely hope they are convinced FB is a bad thing for us, and that public awareness campaigns will educate the wider kehillah.

    Also, haifagirl and Health, please leave it alone. This type of nitpicking has destroyed many a informative thread.

    P.S. What’s interesting is that the “addictive” nature of any social community (Facebook, CR) means that I have begun to comment more frequently despite resisting doing so for a long period!

    #935303

    Health
    Participant

    Gamanit -“He said to talk to him as if he were an 80 year old. So Health replied as if he were an 80 year old telling him that it’s not a problem for someone of his age…”

    Thank you.

    I think jokes are lost when you have to explain them, no?

    #935304

    Health
    Participant

    Yserbius123 -“Health: Thanks a lot. I guess I didn’t realize how prevalent the issue is. Still, I believe that if a person wanted to do an aveira 15 years ago, he didn’t need the Internet. It’s possible that it’s common to use Facebook as a heichi timtza, but I doubt that the divorce rates are any higher because of it.”

    Miyutin B’arayos was throughout the ages. Yes, I know cases of “Frum” people being Mezaneh then, but you had to make an effort. Getting up and going to these places. Nowadays with FB, those that wouldn’t do it because of the Tircha can use FB to accomplish whatever they want, effortlessly.

    #935305

    frumnotyeshivish
    Participant

    Health: “Yes, I know cases of ‘Frum’ people being Mezaneh then, but you had to make an effort.”

    How are you so in the loop? Is there a “Health Professional” social networking site in which these sensitive topics are shared?

    See if you’d be a “Mental Health Professional” like me, I’d understand…

    #935306

    squeak
    Participant

    There is no reason to be proud of being mental. I wouldn’t want to be treated by a health professional who describes herself as mental.

    #1806576

    RebbeDebbie
    Participant

    In addition to many divorces, Facebook is responsible for “half Shabbos.”

    #1806642

    Billywee
    Participant

    What does FB have to do with Half Shabbos (HB)?
    Why is it called HB? If a child eats Treif where the public will know aren’t they called OTD?
    HB is a new category. The kids, Rabbonim, & therapists call them HB and not OTD. The difference is (while some are on the way to OTD and texting is a stop along the way), these kids WANT to live a frum life. They like Shabbos and community and Yeshiva. They want to marry frum and raise frum kids that go to Yeshiva.
    These kids will not drive to a movie on Shabbos, nor do they want to.
    They “ONLY” (yes, it’s hard to comprehend for someone whi grew up in the 70s, 80’s, 90s when it was much harder to be frum and there was much more exposure to the outside world, yet would never think of being Michallel Shabbos) text on Shabbos.
    Most give it up after their year in Israel and especially when they get married. This HB story broke 8 years ago. They are now adults. Where are all the frum married yidden walking to shul on shabbos texting?
    There are many serious issues going on in the frum velt. But, let’s not confuse the issues. HB is only about texting. It has nothing to do with FB, eating treif, or mixed dancing.

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