August 4, 2008 2:23 pm at 2:23 pm #587962
I think it’s amazing that Gershon Veroba, although his songs are more modern, at least he admits where he took them from, whereas other singers write composed by a yid when it’s a non-jewish song. The least they should do s not write anything instead of downright lying that it was composed by a Jew.August 4, 2008 4:13 pm at 4:13 pm #1152978Feif UnParticipant
Never mind where the songs come from… what about how the singers act at their concerts? My Rosh Yeshiva once said in a shmuz that he heard about the group Oif Simchas, and how they act on stage at their concerts. He said it doesn’t matter what the style of their music is. Any Jewish singer who doesn’t act appropriately on stage is not a singer we should be listening to! Yes, taking non-Jewish songs is an issue sometimes (I say sometimes because there have been people who took non-Jewish songs and were able to transform them, such as the Khaliver Rebbe zt”l). However, there are many other issues in the Jewish music industry also.August 4, 2008 4:57 pm at 4:57 pm #1152979Think BIGMember
Good PointAugust 4, 2008 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #1152980
“who took non-Jewish songs and were able to transform them”
A goyshe song is a goyshe song period. To put holy pesukim into a nigun which was originally sung by a shmutzdiker goy is terrible. But you have to warn the public where it came from and not lie that is was composed by a yid.August 4, 2008 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #1152981WolfishMusingsParticipant
And what if it came from a non-Jew who wasn’t “shmutzdiker?”
The WolfAugust 4, 2008 8:34 pm at 8:34 pm #1152982
Ever heard of Szol a Kakas Mar?August 5, 2008 1:07 am at 1:07 am #1152983mosheroseMember
Music from a goy is metamtem halev. Every time I hear MBD’s Yidden, I can practically feel a tosfos being sucked out of my head. It’s horrible.August 5, 2008 3:05 am at 3:05 am #1152984Think BIGMember
noitallmr, you didnt hear what feif un said: The khaliver rebbe was known for taking peasant folksongs and putting soul stirring jewish words to it, “transforming them ” into songs of kedusha. and those people in the know say that they are from the “holy of holies”. (personally not chassidish, but thats what they say)
the most famous of them is “solo kakosh mar” which was recently recorded by album JEP 5. great album, btw.August 5, 2008 1:21 pm at 1:21 pm #1152985
“non-Jew who wasn’t “shmutzdiker”
These days a goy who is in music is shmutzik…period!
I’m not talking about the olden days peasants…August 5, 2008 1:39 pm at 1:39 pm #1152986
On this topic, there is only one form of authentic Jewish music, nusach, which is based upon the trope systems used in reading from the Torah, the Prophets and the Megillot. But even that music, which is essentially the pentatonic major and minor scales, from its literal inception in the First Temple era assumed the structure of the prevailing music of the day, the Greek tetrachords. Indeed Jews modified those tetrachord patterns to fit the pentatonic nature of their music. But trope and it’s extension, nusach are the only true Jewish forms of music. Leib Glantz demonstrated how the ever ubiquitous “freigish” nusach, or Ahava Rabah, as it is technically termed, is in fact one the most recent additions to our musical system probably coming from the near east well after the destruction of the Second Commonwealth. But since we’ve so completely incorporated it, it is definitively Jewish. Even Nusach and also chazzanut, the natural development of nusach, has been subject to secular influences over time. The pentaonic scales and the tetrachords of old became subject to major and minor systems of scale structure. The sonata, the minuet, the waltz, even the fugue, have been incorporated into our sacred music. Sadly, oh so sadly, even rock and roll and cheesy folk music styles are now heard in our schuls. But it’s silly for anyone to ever believe that there has been no outside influence on our musical heritage. the trick is in knowing what’s hitorically Jewish, and what isn’t.August 7, 2008 10:44 pm at 10:44 pm #1152987eli levParticipant
reb moshe zt”l has a tshuva about reb shlomo carlebach a”h[without mentioning his name].
however maybe now -long after rsc was niftar, [he got his kapara]
reb moshe wouldnt have any issue with his songs at all.August 8, 2008 1:57 am at 1:57 am #1152988
The distortion of Shlomo Carlebach’s music has done more to kill nusach and proper davening that any other force in Jewish history. He himself adhered to klalei hanusach when he davened. Sadly his disciples kept the chaff and threw away the kernel.August 13, 2008 8:29 pm at 8:29 pm #1152990zisheMember
The heiliger olden days peasants butchered yidden. The heintige shmutzedike goyim take drugs and act prust. If you don’t like one you shouldn’t like the other either.September 14, 2008 8:01 am at 8:01 am #1152992StamfordhillMember
To day is all goishe music shmuzik becous the words what thay put in the songs is veriy dirty and we just take hileger words and we put it on the goishe songsSeptember 14, 2008 3:05 pm at 3:05 pm #1152993jphoneMember
Kosher food cooked in a treif pot is…….September 14, 2008 4:08 pm at 4:08 pm #1152994marinerMember
stamfordhill “To day is all goishe music shmuzik becous the words what thay put in the songs is veriy dirty and we just take hileger words and we put it on the goishe songs”
sorry to tell you, but peasant songs were more commonly known as drinking songs, as they were sung when the peasants were smashed off their mind, doing all sorts of pritzusdikka things with women not their wives. so tell me again, how music today is so differant then 300 years agao, when the “heiligeh” rebbes made goyish songs “heilig” from the “holy of holies”? that is utter nonsense. any song taken from goyim, and made jewish is in fact, and is in reality jewish. you may no like it, but three hundred yearts ago, there were old folks like you and feiun, and others who didnt “get” waltz music, and thought it was loud and obnoxious compared to the chanting music of the church that came before it.
if you dont like the music, turn it off. you will never ever find a posek that people actually hold by in the masses, that will asser such a thing as this clown luft wants to do. he is a rosha, and i hope the rabbonim dont get taken for a ride like they did the lipa ban again. if they do, all credibility with the young generation may be lost forever, both here and in eretz yisroel.September 15, 2008 2:31 am at 2:31 am #1152995just meParticipant
Lets ban Uncle Moishe! He takes many of his tunes from goyishe songs.
Oh, just for fun,but not becuse there is anything goyish about it, you know the nigun called Neshama’s Nigun? Do you know WHY it is called Neshama’s Nigun? Not because it is so hartsig that it touches your neshama but because it was first sung and recorded by Shlomo Carlbachs daughter Neshama. That should put a twist in your knickers.September 15, 2008 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #1152996SJSinNYCMember
If you arent supposed to be listening to this terrible non-Jewish music, how would you know the Jewish music is based off of it?
Honestly, this doesnt matter to me because I hate music, but I just find it ironic.September 15, 2008 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #1152997
Simply because you get to hear glimpses of it like in a taxi or supermarket.
Re just me
Whats your point? Neshama is jewish and she composed it so…September 16, 2008 8:50 pm at 8:50 pm #1152999Why Do I Even BotherMember
Although the song is in fact sung by Neshama Carlebach, it was not “first sung and recorded by Shlomo Carlbachs daughter Neshama”. It was originally sung by Shlomo Carlebach himself, but did not become popular until she recorded it a few years ago. I have a recording of Shlomo singing it many years ago.
You can untwist your knickers now…September 16, 2008 11:23 pm at 11:23 pm #1153000
Re: Why Do I Even Bother- thanx a lot it was beginning to get uncomfortable!!!May 26, 2016 3:33 am at 3:33 am #1153002👑RebYidd23Participant
I’m sure peasants in the old days were very refined.May 26, 2016 3:41 am at 3:41 am #1153003☕ DaasYochid ☕Participant
Kosher food cooked in a treif pot is…….
Kosher if the pot is an eino ben yomo and you’re not cooking a davar charif.May 26, 2016 3:51 am at 3:51 am #1153004mw13Participant
Why was this thread unearthed?May 26, 2016 12:20 pm at 12:20 pm #1153005nishtdayngesheftParticipant
I love how the person mentions that there was teshuva from R Moshe a boy Carlebach’s music. And from there one should infer that there was something wrong with it.
All you see from there is that some nudnik asked the question. R Moshe said there’s nothing wrongly with singing his music.
One has to wonder why the commenter did not say what R Moshe said, only what the question was.May 26, 2016 1:28 pm at 1:28 pm #1153006WallyBird5Member
Gershon Veroba does many of his own songs. He also has done albums (for NCSY/Kiruv) that re-use non-jewish songs. Not all of his songs are what people call “modern”. May the fact that someone used his name (7 years ago?!) bring him bracha v’hatlacha!
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