Girls & Cellphones Yes/No?

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  • #1040574
    000646
    Participant

    Brooklyn19,

    If you went off the derech mainly because you had a cellphone you are the exception (to say the least) not the rule.

    #1040575
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    talking, texting, picture messages

    The same could apply to any telephone, typewriter or camera. Why not ban them? Because they’re not combined into one device? So what?

    The Wolf

    #1040576
    000646
    Participant

    Brooklyn19,

    If somone dosnt have other issues (such as abuse or bad freinds ect. ect.) with yiddishkeit, generaly a cellphone would not turn them off to yiddishkeit.

    To say that cellphones are the problem is missing the point in the vast majority of cases.

    #1040577
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    Joseph, I know plenty of teenagers that had/have cellphones and stayed on the derech. Actually, of the people I know who went off (and I realize this is a small sample point), none had cell phones as teenagers.

    Actually, if I had a teenager right now that wanted to build bonfires, I would teach him/her about fire safety, not forbid lighting fires. When I was a teenager, my friends and I used to build plenty of bonfires. They were lots of fun.

    #1040579
    Joseph
    Participant

    000, From the Gedolim.

    #1040581
    yros
    Member

    00646: Thank you for clarifying that to Joseph

    #1040582
    oomis
    Participant

    “Rabbosai, Cell phones and children is a large part of why Kids go off the derech and the teens at risk issue.

    You are playing with fire. If you give your kids phones now, don’t cry later when they C’V become ”at risk” and R’L go off the derech. “

    With all due respect, in my opinion that is just plain not true. I have known kids who went off the derech who NEVER had a cell phone. They went off the derech because people were extremely judgmental of their not fitting into a typical frum mold. Not every kid is made for sitting for hours at a time learning Gemarah, but that is not a reason to throw him away. Not every girl wants to be a Bais Yaakov girl. She can still be a perfectly wonderful and observant, NON-Bais Yaakov girl. MY friend’s daughter has had a phone all through her high school years. She could not be more ON the derech than she is. Her sister is the same. So are all the wonderful young women I know in my neighborhood. The cell phones did not put them at risk, but they did keep them safe when the carpool failed to show up and they were waiting outside and needed a ride home. It kept them safe when their car broke down on an isolated part of the highway (should they not drive, also?).

    Anytime one generalizes, one risks being shown that he is mistaken. SOME kids who are at risk for any number of reasons, use their phones for less than noble utilitarian reasons. But those same kids would find a way to accomplish the same goals, with or without a cell phone of their own. Don’t advocate throwing the baby out with the bathwater. If you want to really know what pushes kids off the derech, my son, who B”H is sufficiently grounded in his religious upbringing to have not been adversely affected, went on his lunchbreak to chaap a mincha at a Yeshivah near us, as his workday would otherwise result in his missing a minyan anywhere else. He was dressed very casually, coming from a job working with children, which involved wearing non-Shabbosdig clothing. He was wearing chino pants and an izod-type shirt. The minyan is open to the public. The menahel actually came over to him and embarrassingly told him to leave. He was not messy or unkempt, just dressed in something other than a yeshivish white shirt and black pants. Instead of considering the fact that it was so choshuv to my son to daven Mincha in a minyan that he made sure to not miss it, they threw him out. If it were anyone else, or someone who is on the fence, they could have lost a yiddishe neshama. Instead of castigating kids for all the reasons why they go off the deredch and attributing those reasons to the evils of the internet and the cell phone, let’s look inside ourselves and see why many of our frum neshamas are deciding it isn’t worth it, because they will NEVER be good enough, in the opinion of some frum Jews, no matter what frumkeit they observe.

    #1040583
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    we didn’t say it was a rule. but it makes things a lot easier for a kid with that freedom.

    and yros – i think you should face realities of this generation. texting is NEVER better than talking. picture messages can be TERRIBLE and talking is just talking and can be used in a million and one ways.

    wolf – yes the combination makes it a much more dangerous object.

    we’ve been through all this and i don’t have the energy to go through it again. i suggest you look back at

    http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/mesivta-bochurim-with-cell-phones

    #1040584
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    wolf – yes the combination makes it a much more dangerous object.

    I’m not so certain that I agree with you, but that’s neither here nor there, I suppose. Ce la vie.

    The Wolf

    #1040585
    Joseph
    Participant

    SJS,

    And I know of plenty of kids who played with matches and didn’t get burned.

    Are you giving your 13 year old a box of matches to play with?

    #1040586

    By the way for those of u that charge ur cell over ur bed, it is really not safe. There is a lot of radiation let out. Try to find another outlet.

    #1040587
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    And I know of plenty of kids who played with matches and didn’t get burned.

    Are you giving your 13 year old a box of matches to play with?

    And there are plenty of adults who crash cars. Are you giving adults cars?

    The point is that there is no “one size fits all” rule. You have to know your kids. If they are capable of using the technology responsibly, then they can use it. If they can’t use it responsibly, then they shouldn’t be allowed to use one.

    The Wolf

    #1040588
    000646
    Participant

    Brooklyn19,

    If a kid wants to go off the derech having a cell phone may possibly make it easier for them to go off

    However it is not (at least in the vast vast majority of cases) the reason why they want to go off and once they want to go off you not getting them a phone isnt going to change the situation they will do it anyway even if it is a little harder.

    It would help alot more to change whatever it is that actualy makes kids want to go off instead of concentrating on things like cell phones wich dont.

    #1040589
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    000646

    agreed.

    #1040590
    squeak
    Participant

    Should Wolfish Musings be given a blog? Is he capable of using the technology responsibly? For that matter, should WE be given (this) blog? I personally vote no (as I did when YWN polled its readers). I think maybe tomorrow I will start a thread about what value the CR has served in the past 6 months. I just need to get my thoughts together.

    #1040591
    Joseph
    Participant

    646, I don’t intend this disrespectfully, but your comments here (as in many other threads you comment in), show a great level of immaturity and inability to see an issue thoroughly.

    #1040592
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    joseph – i gotta agree with 646 on that last post. not that anyone’s going to actually do things that way, but it is probably idealistic.

    oh and 646 – i didn’t agree with the entire post. only the part about looking into what makes kids go off. (you can probably spend every second of your life on that one and not even come close to the answer. there is no answer.) you know how i feel about cell phones. just wanted to clarify that.

    #1040593
    000646
    Participant

    Joseph,

    Can you then please explain the situation and show me wich points i am missing

    #1040595
    [email protected]
    Participant

    Bottom line is that cell phones do make things more accessible for kids. Some kids rather than going out to do bad things have it in their hands, during school or at home. Lets say even if it does not make kids go “off the d” it does cause kids to do bad things that they would not have done. there is a difference between talking and texting, so years ago girls would not think of talking on the phone to a boy, but now its like come on its just a text message. number one it seems in your head smaller than an actual call, secondly, noone will ever know and thirdly, you come to saying things that are crossing the line that even if spoken to on a phone you would not feel right saying.

    #1040596
    000646
    Participant

    Brooklyn19,

    “the part about looking into what makes kids go off. (you can probably spend every second of your life on that one and not even come close to the answer. there is no answer.)”

    You are wrong, in most cases there are answers and in alot of cases they are the same as eachother.

    There are books on the subject with interviews of the kids themselves as well as people who deal with kids at risk or who went off the derech professionaly.

    Nowadays many people who went off the derech even have blogs were they state clearly WHY they went off the derech (and most of them are for similar reasons)

    Bkitzer if somone really wants to know why kids go off the derech they really really can find out.

    #1040597
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    ever tried to count how many different blogs there are? every person has their own story to tell. there are basic ideas that include most situations. but every person is unique and had their own way of thinking. there are no rules.

    #1040598
    000646
    Participant

    Brooklyn19,

    Of course since evreyone is diffrent there are diffrent methods that would have to be used to bring them back, however to say there is no main reasons why kids go off the derech (or that having a cell phone is a main one of them) is simply not true.

    #1040599

    Joseph wrote – “Rabbosai, Cell phones and children is a large part of why Kids go off the derech and the teens at risk issue.

    You are playing with fire. If you give your kids phones now, don’t cry later when they C’V become ”at risk” and R’L go off the derech.”

    With all due respect, I think that is a blanket statement without evident merit and is myopic. Kids go off the derech for a host of reasons and the final decision to take that step could have been triggered by 1,001 stimuli.

    #1040600
    AliyahLift
    Participant

    i think kajeet phone service is really good b/c they can have a phone with parental controls. it doesn’t all need to be hefger!

    #1040601

    oomis, I’m very saddened by that story but glad that your son was strong enough not to let it bother him too much.

    Joseph, I’m sure you tried your best, but I don’t think there is any respectful way of accusing someone of immaturity.

    I wonder if there was a subconscious reason to title this thread “Girls and Cell Phones” rather than boys or teens in general. Is the implication that the answer might be different for boys?

    Text messaging is an add-on; for those who are concerned about their children texting, they don’t have to pay for the texting package. If all the phone does is support incoming and outgoing calls, what’s wrong with it? For those parents who are still uneasy, I’d like to know if they let their children use the home phone. If so, do they let them use it without a parent hovering over their shoulder? So if the teens can have private conversations from the house, what’s the difference in having private conversations out of the house?

    I don’t see anything wrong with text messaging, but then again I also don’t see anything wrong with boys and girls talking to each other. For those who do not want their children to mix with the other gender, perhaps it is more of an issue.

    #1040602
    SJSinNYC
    Member

    And I know of plenty of kids who played with matches and didn’t get burned.

    Are you giving your 13 year old a box of matches to play with?

    Was I the only responsible teenager here? I was using matches (safely) at 13.

    Many parents let their kids start babysitting at 10 – you would trust a 10 year old to watch a fragile baby but not to light a match? Or how about turning on the stove? That is lighting a fire! It really depends on the kid and these blanket statements are just getting more and more ridiculous. I find myself wondering more and more how much you believe compared with what you say.

    #1040603
    postsemgirl
    Member

    -SJSinNYC

    you are right it all has to do with the kid. The same thing is with a kid driving. There are some kids who you would trust at 15 and those that you wouldn’t trust even when they get to be 23. Same thing with getting married. some 25 year olds are still babies. It depends on the kid. Every kid matures at a different rate and you just have to know your kids.

    #1040604
    WolfishMusings
    Participant

    and you just have to know your kids.

    I could have *sworn* that I heard that said somewhere… 🙂

    The Wolf

    #1040605
    postsemgirl
    Member

    -wolfishmusings

    Well at least you know someone agrees with you. I just had to say my feelings on the matter.

    #1040606

    The one difference why a GIRL would be worse off having a cell phone is that people tend to talk much louder on a cell phone, broadcasting their conversation to all unfortuante enough to be in their proximity. When it comes to a girl, it is plainly not tzniusdig, especially when acompanied by shrieks and loud laughter.

    That being said, for some reason ppl think that if you text someone it is not the same as having a conversation with them- wrong!! I know girls who would NEVER (sarcastically said) talk to boys, yet see no problem w/ dropping them a message or two.Even if that doesnt lead to going off the derech, it stills invites arayos and is therefore assur.

    #1040607
    Joseph
    Participant

    Thank You chasid-of-Hashem.

    #1040608
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    joseph

    i get the feeling you’re assuming the role of host on here :}

    #1040609
    Joseph
    Participant

    I just want everyone to feel at home. 🙂

    #1040610
    postsemgirl
    Member

    excuse me chasid of Hashem! maybe you are right about being loud but IT IS NOT EVERY GIRL WHO SHREIKS OUT LOUD IN PUBLIC. also a boy would also text and maybe not talk but it is still wrong. why because it is a girl, does everyone go crazy? Boys also start bad relationships through texting. If you want I could give you true stories. By the way what about here in the CR?

    #1040611
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    postsem

    not all girls shreik. you seem to have the tendency, though (the CAPITALIZATION alluded to that) anyway, have you ever heard a guy shreik? ever??? lol their vocal chords don’t go that high.

    and yeah, you’re right about the texting though. same thing.

    #1040612
    postsemgirl
    Member

    Brooklyn- you make me laugh! I don’t shreik on the STREET only in the privacy of my home and computer! by the way do I know you?

    #1040613
    beacon
    Participant

    It’s spelled SHRIEK people…Lol it looks so funny spelled wrongly…Don’t you remember your 1st grade lessons- “I before E except after C”….

    #1040614
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    goodness i hope not! how would you?

    #1040615
    postsemgirl
    Member

    -beacon

    How long ago were you in first grade. I was there a long time ago. sorry don’t remember.

    -brooklyn

    there were a lot of kids in my sem from brooklyn. why do you hope not?

    #1040616
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    lol thanks beacon. i was wondering why it looked funny but i was copying postsemgirl. i guess i learned my lesson – never cheat of the next person – i’m probably smarter :}

    lol sorry postsem!

    #1040617
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    and btw beacon – there are so many exceptions to the rule that it’s not really a rule anymore.

    #1040618
    postsemgirl
    Member

    Sorry for misleading you. My spelling is not the best. I didn’t know this was english class. lol!

    #1040619
    beacon
    Participant

    postsemgirl- I’m your age but I rem. my spelling..jk 🙂

    I’m cracking up from this ridiculous thread!

    #1040620
    postsemgirl
    Member

    what do you mean you are my age? How old am I?

    #1040621
    postsemgirl
    Member

    O and glad to entertain you 🙂

    #1040622
    Curious
    Member

    Here’s the song I learnt in my early years –

    “Put I before E except after C, or when sounding like “ay” as in neighbor and neigh, except seize and seizure and also leisure, weird, height and either, forfeit and neither.”

    I can’t figure out where the original tune is from…

    #1040623
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    lol use firefox – you get a spell-check. (now why in HEAVEN’S name is the word firefox underlined in red??? lol maybe they want it to be more chashuv by capitalizing it…)

    anyway, my sem didn’t have so many girls from brooklyn. and i don’t think i’m the same age as you. where’s you go to sem? (if you don’t wanna answer you can be very general – like “nevey campus” or “har nof” or “bayit ve’gan” etc. or you can not answer!)

    #1040624
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    beacon – you’re postsem’s age??? no way!!!

    #1040625
    brooklyn19
    Participant

    lol look a the list of exceptions in there! and btw i still can’t spell jewish last names. they switch the “e”s and “i”s all the time!

    #1040626
    postsemgirl
    Member

    -brooklyn

    beacon has no idea how many years I’ve been a semgirl for!

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