Going off the Derech

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  • #1182820

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    search up ncsy on line. they do kiruv.

    #1182823

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    mods??? if u x let that info thru for security reasons can u pls email it to super me?

    #1182824

    superme
    Member

    K I got the rabbis name not his number so I’ll google him…where is he located ??

    Hoe did u hear of him?

    #1182825

    superme
    Member

    Iffy grade weird there then I x wntto switch..

    #1182826

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    OMG I also use to be in the same situation like both of you. But, B”H i took care of most of the problem. So, I know a lot about the situation that your in and how to help…. bc i went thru it and B”H fixed most of it. btw: im also in ur grade! It happened in the beginning of this year.

    #1182827

    ShiraTobala
    Member

    BTW : come to my school! The girls r extremely nice and a lot of peeps like it! If i hadn’t stayed id prob be otd

    #1182828

    aries2756
    Participant

    All of you, please understand that there are a lot of trolls on this website so NO PERSONAL information should ever be posted, not even your age and not even your school or what grade your in.

    The names of some very helpful individuals were already discussed here and they can direct you to excellent sources of help. Rabbi Wallerstein has an excellent female therapist on his staff. Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis works with both boys and girls who have questions, you can google her or get her email address through the Jewish Press. I am very happy that all of you have been brave enough to ask for help and have realized that you do have ways and means to ask for help instead of trying to shoulder the burdens of issues that are way out of your league on your own.

    Purplicious, you can’t control what others do only what you do. The only thing you can do if your friend chooses NOT to get help is to let him know that you care about him and his situation really frightens you. If you doesn’t recognize how serious his situation is and he doesn’t choose to get help on his own, then you will have to let someone YOU trust know about it because “Kol Yisroel areivim zeh la zeh. And he is too important a human being to allow to fall apart or die because of issues and problems that he can’t handle on his own and because he either doesn’t have anyone to turn to or doesn’t realize that he can find someone that he can turn to.”

    No one knows who Hashem will choose to be a sheliach for another person. Anyone can be a shadchan for a couple no matter how old they are, and anyone can save another person’s life no matter how old they are, either by dialing Hatzola in an emergency or putting pressure on an open wound, or by calming a person down until help arrives, or in any number of ways; even by telling a trusted individual that you fear for someone’s life. Hashem chooses people for different reasons.

    I don’t want YOU to feel guilty because YOU are put in a difficult position here. What is more important saving your friend’s life or keeping a confidence? It is unfair of your friend to put you in that position. At some point we have to make a choice and tell a person “I care too much to stand by you and watch you kill yourself, you are way too important to allow whatever happened to you or whatever is bothering you to kill you. There is an answer and/or a solution for whatever is happening to you and if you were MY friend you wouldn’t put me through this. You would allow me to find someone to help you and not make me fear for your life.”

    So if I had a close relationship with MY parents even though my friend didn’t have a close relationship with his, or if not with my parents, with my aunt, or with the Rav of my shul, or a particular teacher or neighbor, I would tell them what I was going through and ask them to help me and take this burden off my shoulders because Ms. Purple, YOU DON’T deserve to worry like this, nor to think in any way, shape or form, if your friend were to go sour that you have any achrius in that. You are NOT responsible for his choices only yours. So you can let him know that you don’t want that kind of responsibility and if he doesn’t want to make the right choices for himself, at the very least you can make the right choices for yourself. Because you are only a kid yourself and the responsibility he is putting on your shoulders and your heart is way too much for a kid to handle or live with for the rest of her life.

    #1182830

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ok thanx so much aries.. wow u rlly have wisdom!!and shiratobala and superme were not saying another word OK??? i also think too much infos being shared.. so w my frend im not guna do a/t else.. she has the rabbis # if she needs 2 reach him and im not pushing her.. thanx e/o!!

    #1182831

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    ok now that e/t is resolved (or mostly some stuff) lets give back write or wrong her thread… we sorta hijacked it…

    #1182832

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    mods? u let thru his name only rite? cuz now im getting nervis that these two “teens” r rlly old men and now i gave 2 much personal info..

    #1182833

    superme
    Member

    Yeh I agree shiratobala and purplicious was getting a little nervous bout thatto..

    #1182835

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    aries-

    ahhh!! rabbi dovid goldwasser just called me… he sed i hav blood on my hands if i x tell an adult.. i dont know how he foud out abt this…so me and another frend r guna go 2 my principle..

    #1182836

    rebdoniel
    Member

    I made a denominational shift from Reform and then Reconstructionist to Traditional and Orthodox. I was very observant by non-Orthodox standards- I davened every morning with tallit and tefillin and also davened Mincha-Maariv (albeit using Reform and Reconstructionist siddurim). I studied Gemara and other texts, learned the parsha every week twice with Onkelos and Rashi, kept kosher (didn’t eat “milchigs out” ever, since I lived in NYC), kept shabbos (I walked to services 3 miles from home), and wore a kippah and sometimes tzitzit. I learned trope and nusach, and was involved in transdenominational efforts in learning and other areas. I began observing at this level around the age of 12.

    I grew up to realize that the only community where my lifestyle made sense was the traditional, halakhic community, and that being a halakhic Jew meant that I had to meet personal status standards al pi halakha, and I had to go through many hurdles to be where I am at today (a teudat giyur from one of the most respected rabbinical leaders in Modern Orthodoxy and a former RCA president).

    In order to make “connections,” investing time and money in the proper courses and yeshiva education is a necessity for me.

    Why anyone born with the linguistic skills from age 3, with the yichus, social network, right connections, who can learn rishonim presumably by the age of 18-19, who was raised with the geshmack of what I worked so hard to achieve and learn, would choose to reject this astounds me.

    That being said, there are several areas where we need to return to the teachings of Hazal and the Rambam, Rav Hirsch, and other rational and correct gedolim.

    We need to encourage those who inquire and ask questions and scrutinize knowledge. They are sincere mevakshei Hashem.

    We need to adopt a grand religious vision that combines ethics, yashrus, humanism, and universalism with the demands of a strixt halakhic life and torah learning. Our torah learning needs to be enriched by a robust agenda of studying the natural and social sciences and humanities, which sharpen the mind and allow us to see life holistically.

    Spirituality needs to be nurtured, in addition to philosophizing. Historical revisionism, conformity, brainwashing, and closed-mindedness need to be erased from the picture.

    #1182837

    superme
    Member

    Wow perpilicous that is a little freaky that he called you. I’m happy touching someone πŸ™‚ please let me knowwat happens

    #1182838

    aries2756
    Participant

    Purplicious what are you saying that you didn’t make the call to Rabbi Goldwasser and he somehow knows about our conversation and called you out of the blue?

    #1182839

    write or wrong
    Participant

    Purplicious-I think you should verify that the call was authentic. There’s too much detail being exchanged over here, and while you may sincerely want to help, you could being doing damage if you attract the wrong people.

    #1182841

    aries2756
    Participant

    MODS we need you!

    #1182842

    Imaofthree
    Participant

    troll, troll, troll

    #1182843

    superme
    Member

    aries2756- why???????????????

    #1182844

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    aries- the call was authentic and i left a msg for him on his website and was surprised he actually reads them!! so i spoke 2 him and he sed i havta tell s/o so me and another frend told my principle today and i told her abt rabbi goldwasser so i gave her his number and she called him and sed i shud hav told s/o earlier and m being responsible etc and she wants me to enjoy my childhood w/o this burden and the skl will take care ofe/t 4 me…

    imaofthree-

    im rlly insulted.. why do u think im a troll?

    write or wrong-

    and why exactly is rabbi goldwasser “the wrong kind of ppl”?? may i ask.. hes very well respected

    #1182845

    superme
    Member

    Purplicious- wow good for you now you’ll be less stress. What type of message exactly did you send him? Let me know how this goes when your friend finds out…then maybe I’ll do something like this…

    #1182846

    Danny: (I refuse to call you Reb Doniel – that method of address is reserved for the elders and leaders in my world and I don’t even let kids address me that way):

    Who are you to tell us what needs to be done? You are but a newcomer, and you think you can give the gedolei ha-dor orders? This is an attitude I have seen many times on the part of questionable gerim and BTs who later leave the fold after taking far more than they give – and then they turn on us, screaming into the wind of cyberspace where only fellow malcontents listen to them.

    As for historical revisionism, I have a degree in history from one of the finest universities in the USA, if not the world. What I was taught makes Artscroll children’s books pale in comparison when it comes to historical revisionism.

    Humanism and Judaism are diametrically opposed. I understand studying useful subjects (and that includes plumbing as much as it does law) for parnosso, and if someone who is strong in his emunah likes to read Western literature in the beis hakisse, I understand that too. However, Western philosophy is not medicine or law or engineering – it is not chochmas hagoyim, but raw kefira.

    #1182847

    Purplicious,

    Write or wrong did not say anything negative about Rabbi Goldwasser. You hadn’t mentioned that you left a message for him with your phone number, so she thought it may have been someone pretending to be Rabbi Goldwasser, and that faker would probably be a dangerous person.

    There is definitely too much personal info being given out here, so it’s a valid concern. Everyone please be careful – don’t mention your age, grade, where you live, where your school is, etc. Also, don’t use a screen name which can be searched to find you identity (e.g. if I posted elsewhere using the name DaasYochid and let out personal info there, someone could search my sn and identify me).

    #1182848

    smc
    Participant

    Write or Wrong: About your son, if he will master something, or get somewhere in the school, won’t it boost his confidence, and he will come back? (I may be wrong, but that’s what I think)

    #1182850

    What’s more, if you truly believed in what you learned instead of just feeling comfortable in a certain lifestyle, you would not practice anything preceded by “Modern,” or at the very least you would treat those who are above you in every way with respect, knowing where you stand.

    #1182851

    write or wrong
    Participant

    purplicious-I never said that Rabbi Goldwasser is the ‘the wrong kind of people”. I said to verify that it was actually him.

    #1182852

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    and how shud i do that??? hes rlly well known and wrote tonz of books and i heard him speak once abt anorexia and his voice was the same.. i x understand ur point.. it was him.. and my prinicple actually told my frend that they know cuz we told them and shes rlly mad but not rlly anymore…

    #1182853

    Purplicious,

    If you left him your phone # to call you, you don’t need to worry, but write or wrong didn’t know that. I hope you’re not upset at write or wrong, she’s just looking out for your safety.

    Your friend really knows that you care, and that that’s why you spoke to the principal, but sometimes, as a defense mechanism, people get upset at those who want to help. Hopefully your friend will completely get over it, and appreciate that she has friends who really care.

    #1182854

    write or wrong
    Participant

    smc-I hope so. Actually, an amazing thing happened on his last visit home. Not sure what to make of it at this point, so we’ll see where it goes. It could just be he had a fleeting moment of inspiration, but he told us he wants to go to college and become a lawyer! I’ll keep you posted..

    #1182855

    Write or wrong, smc made a great point. Often before someone can come back, they need to mature and become responsible. After they feel accomplished, they’re ready to do that. Keep davening, and keep showing your love.

    #1182856

    write or wrong
    Participant

    DaasYochid-thank-you. It’s so nice to be understood…

    #1182858

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    purplicious I need a text-speak translator to read your posts

    #1182859

    zahavasdad
    Participant

    Someone who says

    We don’t need this kind of trash in our midst, or in our gene pool.

    or

    This is an attitude I have seen many times on the part of questionable gerim and BTs who later leave the fold after taking far more than they give

    Should not really be commenting on Off the Dereach, Its suchs attitudes that we can “Throw out the Trash” that is causing people to go off.

    Hashem Loves every Jew Equally , Even Barney Frank jews.

    #1182860

    aries2756
    Participant

    ZD, πŸ™‚

    #1182861

    yeshivish7
    Member

    The Thinking Jewish Teenager’s Guide to Life by Rabbi Akiva Tats is a great book targum press

    #1182863

    1) There are some who unfortunately need to leave, because we can’t help them and they cause more problems than we can handle. G-d indeed loves Barney Franks – and He gives them 11 months after they leave this world to do tshuva (in cases where He, for whatever His reasons, does not wipe them off the earth before the age of koreis ends). “Shygetz Aross” does have a place, and we need to be mekayem “ubearto hara bekirbecho.” I always said that if Chabad would say “Shygetz Aross” (meaning clean its house of meshichisten, as well as of those that came in for a free ride because the door was too wide open), and kanoim would say “We Want Moshiach Now,” Moshiach would come.

    2) Kids go off because of mixed messages, like the ones that come from certain posters here. In some cases, the problem is one set of messages at home and another in school. In other cases, it is because confused kids turn to the Internet to find answers they like rather than the right ones.

    #1182864

    write or wrong
    Participant

    TheBearIsBack-Too cliche. There are dozens of reasons why a kid goes off the derech, and probably the biggest factor has to do with the genetic make up of the child. Two kids can go through the same/similar experiences, yet one can roll with the punches, while the other goes off the derech. The personality/ego strength of the child sets the tone. Then other factors like the home, school, Rebbes, friends, neighbors and quality close relationships all have their impact. Couple this with various external factors such as illness, divorce, ADHD, trauma etc and there you have the equation for risk. Temptation and mixed messages might confuse a child. But some kids will go to appropriate sources for answers, and others won’t.

    #1182865

    Genetic makeup…could be the case…after all, the terrible genes of the erev rav have penetrated all of us and we never know when and how they will manifest. In some cases, they manifest as m.zochor, or abuse, and in other cases as OTD.

    It is in the cases of illness and divorce that someone needs to reach out and make sure kids don’t find the wrong answers to “Ribboinoi shel Oilam, why.”

    The bad seed – sorry, but only the Shygetz Aross approach works to determine who just has a ruach shtus or bad influences overwhelming them and who just is so far gone that they’re best off mechutz lamachane where they can’t influence others or destroy what others build.

    #1182866

    superme
    Member

    aries…..- do you happen to know what the female therapists that rabbi wallerstein has…name?

    #1182867

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    hii evryone!! havent been on for 2 days but ya the skls taking care of e/t and this girl is ready 2 kill me!!! and NOO IT WASNT AN IMPOSTER trying to be rabbi goldwasser!!!!

    #1182868

    write or wrong
    Participant

    TheBearIsBack-one more point. As you can see even here in the last dozen or so posts,a person can completely miscontrue the facts, and come to the wrong conclusion. Comments that were meant to be helpful were heard as an accusation. Perhaps this also occurs in the outside world with our teenagers? We can’t attribute all the reasons for going OTD to outside circumstances bc it very much has to do with how the person is programmed to see things.

    #1182869

    superme
    Member

    Purplicious- yay and hopefully shell come to a poit amd thnk u

    #1182870

    Now, we are back to nature vs nurture – why are different people programmed to see things differently?

    There definitely is a genetic component – never mind the erev rav, almost all of us, especially among the Ashkenazim, are saddled with genes that were enforced on us by our tormentors during the worst of times. How much that has to do with present behavior, I have no idea.

    The problem is with the lack of authority and supervision on the Internet. This is probably the best of the forums as far as moderation is concerned. Still, it is a forum, and some people who have little knowledge and less emunah love to post pat answers that basically have the message “Torah is not everything – go enjoy the secular world.” I understand that without debate, this board would just become a community bulletin board of the “Where do I find Paskesz Moldy Green Licorice Bites with Aspartame” variety. However, something needs to be done to squelch the shrill voices of those who are shluchei d’yetzer horo on frum platforms. Kids think that a low level of observance, combined with interest in garbage like alternative rock or grunge music, is cool – they call it “chilled” now. It isn’t cool and it isn’t “chilled” – it’s one step closer to the OTD abyss, and deep down, the troublesome OTDs know their lives are wasted and empty.

    The Internet should be used to create an image of OTD as what it really is – sitting in the grimy railroad station beis kisse, smoking and drinking cheap beer, while watching the train whiz by even though you know full well you have a first-class ticket for the most direct and fastest route on that train.

    #1182871

    write or wrong
    Participant

    TheBearIsBack-I really think the problem is that we’re not insulated enough from outside influences, which are goyishe in nature or filled with tumah. For instance, when kids come home from school, they feel like they have nothing to do. If you don’t give them high tech games to play with, they’re bored. What ever happened to playing a good old game of Monopoly? Checkers? It seems so archaic, that my kids look at me as if I have 2 heads whenever I suggest it. And if you don’t give your kids the high tech stuff, they will either walk aroud the house aimlessly, or end up being tempted to find “fun” other places. This translates into making connections with kids who have the high tech stuff. And there you have the additional risk of kids being pulled into the internet world (which again, translates into exposure to the goyishe, secular, tumah-filled world)) that you were trying to protect them from.

    #1182872

    daniela
    Member

    “For instance, when kids come home from school, they feel like they have nothing to do. If you don’t give them high tech games to play with, they’re bored. What ever happened to playing a good old game of Monopoly? Checkers?”

    I have different questions, I wonder what ever happened to studying, what ever happened to helping around in the house, whatever happened to doing chesed to neighbours and to visiting the retirement home and the hospital (if legal adult, the prison too) and to taking care of younger siblings, and if still boredom is present, going out and actually earning money with our work. I also wonder what ever happened to parenting and responsibility, however, I do wonder most of all what ever happened to checking people before we welcome them.

    #1182873

    ZeesKite
    Participant

    WOW – Right on the mark!!

    Bear – I’m with you all the way. (not that the Rebbe needs my haskama)

    #1182874

    hudi
    Participant

    Daniela – those ideas are very nice, but they are not things children jump to do and generally do not fall into the category children call “fun.” The world has changed.

    #1182875

    write or wrong
    Participant

    daniela-I’m not sure kids don’t do those things. My girls babysit, and definitely help out in the house. While my boys have less available time, they’ll also pitch in when they can. But I don’t think it should be “all work and no play”. Kids should have time to ‘be kids’ without having to either study or do chores. My complaint is that they’re not so interested in the glatt kosher outlets, especially when we are surrounded by non kosher ones that appear so tempting…

    #1182876

    ThePurpleOne
    Member

    i have a question having 2 do w this… all high skool girls do chessed, so why x yeshiva boys go visit nursing homes and stuff?

    #1182877

    What is going on here? I cannot skip to the last post – I get only a reply box.

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