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Does anyone know of a grocery store in Lakewood that completely gets rid of all their Chometz before Pesach and does not rely on Mechiras Chometz?
In most stores, they have Chometz from before Pesach which you can tell by the production date, so I end up having to throw out the Chometz purchased by accident and I would rather buy somewhere that does not carry Chmetz from before Pesach at all.
Thank youlooks like another chumra making people to throw away the food Hashem sent their way. Why not give it to some sheigetz in Lakewood that holds by mechiras chometz?
AAQ: some zheigitz in lakewood? Midos Alert
Yes its call the troller supermarket
You must mean that guy wearing the blue shirt.
Rav Reisman points out that he doesn’t understand Jews who davka purchase from goyim post pesach
Buying in a Jewish store ie Supporting a Jew is a d’oraysah
Not selling chametz is a chumra
The chumra doesn’t override a d’oraysah
It is one of many misplaced prioritiesI find it hard to believe that there would be a grocery store that can afford to do that. Relying on mechras chameitz as an individual is certainly controversial… but a store using it is less problematic because I think that’s what the original institutions was for (I think it was for whiskey sellers) because the loss of destroying all that chameitz would have been overwhelming.
smiler
It is hard to imagine how such a store could exist .
Please do teshuva for throwing out perfectly fine food purchased from ehrliche people who follow halacha“Yes its call the troller supermarket“
One way to spot a troll is if they haven’t posted anything from n the CR since they opened their account (3 years and 11 months ago) and they start by posting a new thread that could be inflammatory
This appears to me to be a chumra born in the Lakewood mentality. Move outside the east coast and everyone buys from the same handful of stores that supply the entire community…and they all sell their chometz.
Not to judge, as to each his own. I just wonder how the Rabbonim of 100, or even 50 years ago would view the “chumra” culture of today. Many Rabbonim have been outspoken about the added chumras which add stress and anxiety to an already overwhelming modern society.
Those calling not selling chometz a chumra… You do realize that it’s not in the gemara, and was introduced relatively recently, to be able to sell it… The Gaon was very, very against it. Why is not relying on the kulah now a chumra?
Dear Avira,
Because the logistics have completely changed. Even if such a store is found, who are the suppliers?
Avira
Because this isnt about not relying on the sale
This is not allowing others to rely on it.Rabbi Reisman is very very very* opposed to this “Chumra”
buying from a yid is a mitzva deoraysa.
chamatz shevar al Hapesach is a knas derabanan. It is absurd (his words) to suggest that Chazal would issue a knas agasint this fellow who follows all Gedolim who allow mechira. He goes to his Rav sells his chometz and surprise chazal issue a knas???Aye the Gra?
Ok so if you are very medakdek on following the Gra, maybe it makes sense. but if not to adopt this chumra is “absurd”
As to why the Gra held it. Who knows
1) not all things in Maaseh Rav are reliable.
2) Maybe he thought the mechira wasnt done well in his locale
3) Practicly it wasnt the same people didnt have storehouses with product as much as today.
4) furthermore might be better off buying from yid today. You know he sold his product, it is deffinitly NOT chometz sheavar al Hapesach when buying from goy you don’t know who he bought from over yom Tov could be a Jewish distributor*I use all those verys because I heard it from him many times and he used strong language. Do you have a source that the Gra was “very very against it” Maaseh Rav says he didnt buy
Eat only potatoes year-round and avoid the machlokes.
Avirah
I am curious where you got that “not in the gemarah” part
Mishna peschim 2:1
Yerushalmi perek 2
and then there is the famous toseftaAvira
selling chometz is not something new, its brought down in the shulchan aruch siman 448
the source is a tosefta and therefore chazal
and the biur hagra there does not write anything against selling it
the mishna brurah does not write against selling chometz
and therefore it is a chumra and its a chumra against chazal
if a person wants to be machmir not to sell thats one thing but after it was sold the halacha is its allowed (supposing the sale was done correctly)please see the aruch hashulchan y”d siman 116 were he says that someone who is machmir in a place that the poiskim were meikel could be considered minus (theres also a maharshal brought down in hilchos busur vichuluv that says the same)
this is all except for the issur of baal tashchis for throwing out food that is halachically permitted
– at least donate it to the less fortunateMy apologies, i should have been clearer – selling is definitely with a precedent. The issue the Gaon had was with selling it while it remains in the jews house/store.
“The chamets sold before Pesach should be batel in the chametz bought after Pesach.“
כל קבוע כמחצה על מחצה דמי
😂😂😂😂
Avira
“The issue the Gaon had was with selling it while it remains in the jews house/store.”
I’m not sure how you know that. As Far as I know the Gra did not write anywhere opposing the sale, including in his comments to Shulchan Aruch (448:3) where sale is mentioned.
Masseh Rav does mention that he avoided buying from Chometz that had been sold, thoughg it does not say why.Do you have a source indicating that he was “very, very against it.”?
(To be clear I’m not saying he wasnt agaisnt it, (though “very very” seems like a stretch) I am saying that just becasue he was agasint it does not mean this is something that people should follow today for all the reasons I shared from Rabbi Reisman in previous post)
Ubiq,, I’ll look it up when i get a chance; i remember learning it when we learned the sugya years ago
Just curious. Do those who hold with the Gra’s position on selling chametz also hold with his position that there is nothing wrong with eating gebrochts on Pesach?
There is no bittul b’rov here for every possible reason.
Why is anyone taking this troll seriously?
I don’t know why my post with the sources is not being posted…i found the Gaon, and others
Pity
I would have like to see the Gra.
Only reference I’m familiar with is Maaseh Rav@smiler613, i think it would be worth it for a troll to get a life
Smiler
You should be that person
Don’t be one of those guys on the sidelines who tells everyone else what they are doing wrong
Get proactive. Start that big Lakewood grocery that caters to your crowd. I am sure you will make a fortune!This is a derabonon so I don’t know if the rule of being half on fixed bitul applies.
> I just would rather give a yid parnassah but only if he gives me the products that I want.
“I want” seems like such a goyishe attitude, you should probably go to walmart lehathila!
Posters here raised good objections that this chumra is a kula towards the Jewish sellers, so you should probably ask a Rav …
In defense of the poster though – if you are in a place where a Jewish grocer raises prices thanks to the monopoly in the Jewish commuity, you might be justified going to walmart not only because it is 20% cheaper for you, but in order to break the excessive pricing for the whole community.
AAQ, “so you should probably ask a Rav …”
You don’t believe in that.Dear Reb Eliezer,
I could give you ten solid reasons why bitul doesn’t apply.
But one will suffice to eradicate every possible retort.
If the chometz would have been properly sold before pesach there would be no issur. We don’t ever use bitul after we intentionally created an issur. דבר שיש לו מתירים
Dear Always,
“Monopoly”
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
You don’t understand retail at all!
Dear Smiler,
Gives you the products that you want?!?
Go be a butcher and let’s see if you keep selling only kosher.
AAQ
Rav Reisman has discussed that issue also
I do not remember his cheshban and the actual percentage #
But certainly if there are significant differences in prices there is no issue
About 10 years ago I bought pesach plastics that cover my counter tops. I have a small kitchen and a Yiddish company wanted $1200 to make the plastics. I had a goyish company make them for less than $200.
I didn’t lose any sleep over that oneMost supermarkets operate on a very thin profit margin. If a shomer shabbos grocery can afford to throw away everything in his store, he has to be marking up the wholesale prices considerably.
Nom
Of the ten possible reasons bitul wouldnt apply you gave an incorrect one
chametz shevar al Hapesach is NOT a davar sheyesh lo matirin. IT will never become mutar. In fact if you mixed up (after purchasing so no longer kavua) chometz shevar al hapesch it WOULD be batul (if not davar shebeminyan, chatichha arui lhiskabed etc)
Davar sheyesh lo matirin doesnt apply if the matir is retroactive. We dont say neveila is davar sheyesh lo matirin becasue you could have shechted it.
common > AAQ, “so you should probably ask a Rav …”
You don’t believe in that.Stop trolling me. I explained already – I do not believe in Daas Torah. Why? Because I asked the Rav and he said so.
n0> You don’t understand retail at all!
yes, I am not in retail, B’H. you are right about competitiveness. But there are still pockets of monopolies – selling in poor neighborhoods where people do not drive to Costcos, government contracting … kosher stores in small towns used to be such, dented by Costcos and other stores now selling many kosher products and online shopping, but still they have their captured audience of older or uninformed customers who sometimes pay over the roof.
Interesting dichotomy: when we discuss the Pesach aspect of it, there are learnt references. When we discuss l’havero aspect – everyone is wandering in the dark.
common, the real reason I am suggesting to go ask a Rav is Rambam in halochos deos that says when a person is unhealthy he needs to go to the doctor, when he has problems with deos, he needs to go to a chacham. That is what I I think I meant, not simply get a psak on a particular question.
@AAQ, so do as I say not do as I do?
smiler
You mean 99
Though I’m still not sure the relevance. That wouldn’t allow you to buy the chometz intending to mix it and create bitulSmiler
“I personally try to buy from Yidden even when the quality and price are worse, but if they refuse to supply the Chumras that I want, that’s when I stop feeling obligated to patronize them”
I don’t get this
So you’re a meikel stam to make yourself feel good. Isn’t that worse than a meikel who is driven by yetzer harah for money?
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