August 12, 2013 10:35 am at 10:35 am #610334
Not sure if you saw this on the YWN home page
But a Psak was issued that one must halachically vote for a certain candidate.
Is it an averiah to vote for another candidate?
Does one need to do Tshuva if one misses the vote or votes for somoene else.August 12, 2013 5:52 pm at 5:52 pm #970990nitpickerParticipant
where are you going to post to ask if you must follow the psak given you here?
will it be an averiah to ignore the ruling givin here of the question you posted here?
will you need to do tshuva if you have failed to obey the rulings of the posters here?August 12, 2013 5:54 pm at 5:54 pm #970991
Could a Gadol dictate what kind of shoes to wear on specific days?August 12, 2013 6:54 pm at 6:54 pm #970992the-art-of-moiParticipant
it depends on your emunas chachomim, i guess. i doubt you have to do teshuvah for missing an election, but unless you have a valid reason for voting for someone else, why not vote and get a mitzvah at the same time?August 12, 2013 6:58 pm at 6:58 pm #970993–Participant
I know one signatory well enough to know that he wouldn’t put his signature on the third paragraph. Untill I get his response, I’m treating this as a forgery.August 12, 2013 7:40 pm at 7:40 pm #970994nitpickerParticipant
last week, (right after laining pashas re’eh,
someone I work with became curious and asked me questions as which animals are kosher.
I find interesting that this thread appears right after parshas shoftimAugust 12, 2013 7:49 pm at 7:49 pm #970995
The letter says its halachically imcumbant on every jew to assist a candidate in every way.
Read the letter, It was posted hereAugust 12, 2013 8:02 pm at 8:02 pm #970996oomisParticipant
In matters of Halacha, I defer to my rov and/or Gedolei Hador. In matters of politics, I think for myself. Chances are that if a Gadol has very strong feelings about a given politician, I most likely already share those same feelings, but that is not Torah m’Sinai.
Even a rov can have a personal bias that might influence his decision to prefer one candidate over another, and that bias might not always necessarily be for the general long term good. I would want to know WHY the Gadol chose that specific candidate for endorsement, if I did not care for the same person, and perhaps my opinion would change, if there were a compelling reason.August 12, 2013 8:03 pm at 8:03 pm #970997
The letter didnt say it was a Mitzvah to vote, it said it was a mitzvah to vote for a specific candidate.
I have gotten robocalls telling me it was a mitzvah to vote for a specific candidateAugust 12, 2013 10:05 pm at 10:05 pm #970998
I don’t know. But I do know that one needs to do teshuva for this thread.
What is the purpose of this thread besides to make fun of the fact that gedolim advise people on voting and that people care about gedolim’s opinion on that?August 12, 2013 10:10 pm at 10:10 pm #970999Morris CohenMember
U need to listen to Hashem! U need to listen to Gedolim. Now if there is machlokes u need to use your brain to judge what is the right thing to do.
In this case: Sechel and the Gedolim say NO to Quinn and Toeva.August 12, 2013 11:28 pm at 11:28 pm #971000
Its one thing if they endorse a candidate and its another if they say its a Chiyuv or Mitzvah to vote for a specific candidateAugust 12, 2013 11:50 pm at 11:50 pm #971001
Many things are many things.August 13, 2013 12:54 am at 12:54 am #971002
Who should i vote for in the NJ senate primary tomorrow?August 13, 2013 1:41 am at 1:41 am #971003yehudayonaParticipant
Goq, I thought you live in Queens.August 13, 2013 2:31 am at 2:31 am #971005This name is already takenParticipant
Goq- democrat or republican?August 13, 2013 4:17 am at 4:17 am #971006
I am a conservative but will probably vote in the democratic primary tomorrowAugust 13, 2013 5:01 am at 5:01 am #971007Anonymous1000Participant
You must follow what the gedolim say even if they tell you right is left and left is right. I think the question here is, is this letter a forgery or not. Call your rav and ask him if you have to do it.August 13, 2013 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #971008yehudayonaParticipant
Suppose one gadol said vote for candidate A and another said vote for candidate B.August 13, 2013 4:12 pm at 4:12 pm #971009yichusdikParticipant
Daas Torah, meet critical thinking. Why bother thinking at all if there’s someone who can do it for you? Hey, lets just toss bechira chofshis out the window. That is, if it is permissible to open the window.
There is a difference between guidance and direction. Everyone who has a question or a doubt should seek guidance from their Rov or the leader they look up to. I am not of the opinion that everyone should abdicate their responsibility to use their own wits -and the Torah education their parents and earlier generations of gedolim struggled to give them- to let someone else think for them.
I’ve got no skin in this particular political game, I don’t even live in the same country, but it seems to me that there are always going to be things done, endorsed, or allowed by governments and candidates that violate a halachic world view. Some ( not me, BTW) might consider killing people in Iraq or Afghanistan as cold blooded murder done on your cheshbon as a citizen. Others may look at Obamacare as gezeilah. Others will look at child protection services as gneivas nefoshos. Still more may look at the fact that Wiccans or Mormons are allowed to practice their religion freely as enabling avodoh zoroh. Havent seen any letters about those issues. Wondering why.
But if one can get their head around governments or candidates enabling or endorsing murder, kidnapping, theft, and idol worship without issuing letters of halachic direction, I suppose they should be able to get their heads around toeivah too.
At least, that’s what critical thinking tells a logical person. If one is going to abdicate their thought and choice to someone else, the least they can expect is consistency.August 13, 2013 5:22 pm at 5:22 pm #971010
Oomis, knowing if you must follow their decision is also an Halachic Shayla that you ask your Rav. Chances are, a Gadol will tell you iit is your choice but he thinks one way is wiser. However, if he tells you that you must, then he Paskened that you have to follow.
I see that my reference to the Mishna in Shabbos (Sandel Hamesumar) fell under the radar.August 13, 2013 7:57 pm at 7:57 pm #971011This name is already takenParticipant
Haleivi- you obviously haven’t read the letter; it says that that its a psak.August 13, 2013 10:39 pm at 10:39 pm #971012
oomis and yichusdik: I am with you on this matter. The mention of “lo sossur” that anonymous1000 alluded to is erroneous. There ,we are talking about halachic matters, not “milei d’alma”, matters of general interest. There is no obligation to follow any Rov in matters that are not halachic. As yichusdik said, why leave our brains at the door?August 14, 2013 1:17 am at 1:17 am #971013
The mention of “lo sossur” that anonymous1000 alluded to is erroneous. There ,we are talking about halachic matters, not “milei d’alma”, matters of general interest. There is no obligation to follow any Rov in matters that are not halachic.
Just for the record, in case anyone is confused by Rabbi of Berlin’s statements, he has previously gone on record that shemita is not considered halacha for this purpose since it is not in the shulchan aruch http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/coffeeroom/topic/about-the-rca-i-do-shudder/page/3August 14, 2013 3:03 am at 3:03 am #971014rationalfrummieMember
care to respond to the actual substance of his post, PBA?August 14, 2013 3:08 am at 3:08 am #971015
popa: I find most of your comments obnoxious, arrogant and often irrelevant. Your opinion is your opinion but there is a halocho of “motzi shem ra” and what you said about me falls under that title. Furthermore, it is a stupid comment as these are mitzvos d’oraisa.August 14, 2013 3:10 am at 3:10 am #971016
ROB, so you obviously don’t wash Mayim Acharonim, and never would have, until you personally agreed with the decision of Chazal.August 14, 2013 3:11 am at 3:11 am #971017UtahMember
This is ridiculous. A Rabbi can’t tell you who to vote for and he can’t call it a mitzva, which it is not. However a Rabbi can encourage you to vote for a certain candidate. You don’t have to listen to the Rabbi in this matter.August 14, 2013 3:18 am at 3:18 am #971018Sam2Participant
I do not know if the letter is real or fake, but if it is real I cannot see how the wording is not a Torah violation of Lo Sosifu. If the letter is indeed real, I would be very tempted to go up to every single signatory and ask how such a letter is Muttar.August 14, 2013 4:13 am at 4:13 am #971019
Haleivi: You confuse me. What does mayim acharonim have to do with our subject? It is a gemoro and mentioned in shulchan aruch.
“mah inyan shemita eitzel har sinai?”August 14, 2013 4:17 am at 4:17 am #971020Anonymous1000Participant
rabbiofberlin for the sake of this discussion I will assume you are right. However I would add that doing what a rav says doesn’t have to mean leaving your brain at the door. For example someone could have an opinion on a matter but do what a rav does because he trusts his opinion more than his own. Other examples, if I think I should do one thing about my health but the worlds top doctor(s) believe I should do something else it would be best for me to follow their advice.August 14, 2013 4:28 am at 4:28 am #971021
Could a rabbi tell you to make peace with the Romans? Do you have to listen?
Sam, I don’t think it is this letter that is on the table right now. We all know that these types of letters are not authored by the Rabbonim themselves. It is written by whoever, and is not meant to be studied. It is put in front of Rabbonim to sign and they sign when they agree with the point of it. Yes, it is a problem and I wish this system would be uprooted.
Personally, I don’t care about this letter. None of these Rabbonim are my Morei Derech so it does not pertain to me. If they were, I’d try to find out what exactly they hold. However, the discussion here is about the Chiyuv to follow Rabbonim. Your own, the big ones, whatever.
We see in the Gemara many examples of Takanos and Gezeiros that come from reasons of Sakana. They are Halacha, no different from the Shvusim of Shabbos.
Besides, every Halachic decision essentially comes down to judging a situation. Is it Boneh or is it not. We wouldn’t disregard Reb Shlomo Zalman Aurbach’s decisions of Hilchos Shabbos, which are his way of sizing up objects and their functions, so how can we disregard decisions of Shmad, Limud Hatorah, Chilul Hashem, Avoda Zara, Bizui Hatorah, and other Halachos?August 14, 2013 4:29 am at 4:29 am #971022
It is a gemoro and mentioned in shulchan aruch.
Right. And how did it get there?August 14, 2013 4:34 am at 4:34 am #971023mddMember
ROB, Oomis and others, sometimes voting for a certain candidate is a Halochik matter. ROB, please, stop dreing the kup with your “mili de’alma” ta’anah.August 14, 2013 4:41 am at 4:41 am #971024
anomymous1000: That is exactly what I said. It is not an obligation to listen to a Rav’s opinion but,of course, you can ask for an opinion and follow it if you want to.I do the same but I would never dream of labeling it “halacha” and make it an obligation.August 14, 2013 4:42 am at 4:42 am #971025
This name is already taken,
The letter that you quote sounds to me like: ‘We urge everyone in the strongest terms to please come out and vote for Eric.’ Knowing the language that gets thrown around that’s how it translates. As I said, I’m not happy that letters get to be put out like this.August 14, 2013 4:45 am at 4:45 am #971026
HaLeivi: You always talk in riddles. I am not smart enough to understand what you are alluding to. To beat a dead horse,aloow me to repeat what I said: if it is in the Poskim like the Rambam, (for items that are not covered by the Bais Yossef) or if it is in the “arba chelkei shulchan aruch”,we have to follow the Piskei halocho. For other matters that qualify as “milei d’alma” ,we do not have to follow the opinions.
mdd: instead of just dismissing idly what I said, please justify your positions.August 14, 2013 12:07 pm at 12:07 pm #971027
The letter was in consice english, it wasnt in Yiddish or Hebrew alowing translator license.
Is quite clear to me and to anyone else what it means.August 14, 2013 1:22 pm at 1:22 pm #971028
I vote for Booker.August 14, 2013 3:49 pm at 3:49 pm #971029Veltz MeshugenerMember
I think it’s like sheidim. If you believe that you have to listen to them, then you have to listen to them.August 15, 2013 7:10 am at 7:10 am #971030WIYMember
I’m not sure you were sober when you wrote your last comment.August 15, 2013 10:28 am at 10:28 am #971031Shraga18Participant
Ah, what a beautiful example of a straw man. The title of this thread is “How far must one listen to Gedolim”, while I’ve never even heard of most of the Rabbonim on that letter.
1. ZD seems to think that every Rabbi is a Gadol. Pretty fanatical viewpoint.
2. Being that being a Rabbi in no way means that the Rabbi is a Gadol, the whole question is irrelevant. No one ever said you have to do everything said by any Rabbi.August 15, 2013 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #971032Veltz MeshugenerMember
Sober as a judge bro. Lotsa people can’t handle my mad logicizing doe, so don’t feel bad.August 15, 2013 2:08 pm at 2:08 pm #971033
Read the list the R’Y of BMG is on it, If you dont consider him a gadol , I cant help youAugust 15, 2013 3:15 pm at 3:15 pm #971034oomisParticipant
MDD, respectfully, I feel fairly certain that if most poskim agreed that a certain candidate was a better choice, that most of us would probably arrive at that same conclusion on our own. I don’t need to be given a p’sak for my voting choices.August 15, 2013 5:09 pm at 5:09 pm #971035gavra_at_workParticipant
“I do not know if the letter is real or fake,”
“Read the list the R’Y of BMG is on it, If you dont consider him a gadol , I cant help you “
So was a Rosh Yeshiva of REITS.
Absolute undeniable proof that the letter is a forgery.August 15, 2013 6:53 pm at 6:53 pm #971036
LOL at the ModAugust 15, 2013 7:18 pm at 7:18 pm #971037gavra_at_workParticipant
ZD: My line, not the Mod’s.
Thanks.August 15, 2013 7:23 pm at 7:23 pm #971038Eli51Participant
I am not sure if we have to listen to the gedolim who signed the letter a few days ago for everyone to vote for Eric Salgado because I don’t think the person who went around collecting signatures from the Gedolim told them that if we vote for Salgado we may give Christine Quinn who is what we would call a man a Mishkav Zachor a better chance of winning. I think if they would have told the Gedolim who signed this takkana that information I would think they would agree with me & say look @ the polls on election & see who has the best chance of defeating her & that who we should vote for. Yes the other candidates support toeiva but that are not Toeiva themselves. However if your Rav happens to be on the list you must approach him & ask the Rav if he realized that by voting for Salgado might improve Christine Quinns chances of winning when he signed the takkanah. As you R Yisroel Belsky & R Dovid Feinstein names are not on the list. I will ask R. Dovid Feinstein before the election if I have to vote for Eric Salgado or not.August 15, 2013 7:51 pm at 7:51 pm #971039writersoulParticipant
Eli51: But if the rabbanim are only relying on the guy getting signatures for their information before signing a letter that will influence the way people vote….
Sometimes, it’s nice to live in Monsey where the elections are fixed before you ever hit the polls.
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