Hydroxychloroquine

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  • #1848029
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Mattisyahu,

    That’s a very nice calculation. But what you aren’t understanding is that Zelenko only gives his treatment to the high risk group. Meaning people over 65, with a co-morbidity, or shortness of breath. Patients in any of those 3 categories have a significant risk of hospitalization/death. And in fact they are about 70-80% of all coronavirus deaths. so if out of all those 1000 people that zelenko has there are less than 30 hospitalizations and only 2-3 deaths that means the medicine is working nearly 100%. if every doctor would follow this regimen the pandemic would be over.
    Those that ignore this fact and then publicly say that Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work are in effect causing people do needlessly die. Please do more much research before publicly commenting.

    #1848035
    A little Sechel?
    Participant

    Your statistics are very scientific you just forgot one thing with all your degrees didnt figure out . Lakewood is 2/3 Jewish we comparing only that segment of the population so is just about Double KJ

    #1848074
    Health
    Participant

    CS -“How many of you have any medical background, I mean a real verifiable background, ie Dr. Nurse, a degree in biology, safety”

    I have one. I think Charlie, Ubiq, & 2scents have them. But IDK for sure because I don’t know them IRL.

    #1848088
    Health
    Participant

    Ubiq -“Sure in secret graduade school where they teach secret supreme court cases they may have taghut it but not in most schools”

    So what your saying is – just like you couldn’t find my court case – you won’t be able to find my cure for Covid! That’s good news for me – because less competition.

    #1848073
    Health
    Participant

    2scents -“The logic behind Hydroxychloroquine and Zinc is not that it reverses the infection, rather that it makes it more difficult for the virus to replicate and reproduce, giving the body a better chance at fighting the virus.”

    Ya’know – this site is for laymen, so why is it different than antibiotics? It isn’t.

    #1848192
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq: I am really not picking on you!
    You said, “Yes, the vast vast majority of people with symptoms do well without HCQ.”

    But the POINT IS: you do NOT know which ones!
    You do not know which ones will do well without HCQ if they have symptoms.

    THAT is the POINT!

    #1848219
    Doing my best
    Participant

    mattisyahu,
    It doesn’t really make a difference what the age groups are, because Dr. Zelenko is only treating those at risk of Hospitalization/death. So if he treated 1000 people in KJ, (actually, almost half did not live in KJ) and there were less than 30 hospitalizations, and from what i understand 0 (there might have been 1 or 2, i’m not sure) he’s obviously doing something right. Unless he just got lucky.

    #1848227
    mattisyahu
    Participant

    FYI, update from a hospital in France that they stopped the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin combo due to adverse cardiac effects.

    Don’t know enough about the specifics there but if this combo is not good for the 1% with high-risk of cardiac effects, then it is not effective on the population that might be the highest risk of dying from this. Just another point to keep in mind when evaluating outcomes with this treatment and how this is a bias in the people selected for the treatment.

    #1848239
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq:
    You said, “Yes, the vast vast majority of people with symptoms do well without HCQ.”

    But the POINT IS: you do NOT know which ones!
    You do not know which ones will do well without HCQ if they have symptoms.

    THAT is the POINT!

    #1848261
    ready now
    Participant

    hi, the posts -the latest ones, are not showing up.

    #1848267
    Health
    Participant

    Oh Charlie -“I regularly review scientific manuscripts for methodological soundness. ”

    That’s nice; but did you read the article from Medscape? Do you read scientific articles from others, besides yourself?!?

    #1848268
    Health
    Participant

    mattisyahu -“FYI, update from a hospital in France that they stopped the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin combo due to adverse cardiac effects.”

    Now you know why I posted this on page 1:
    “2nd, I recommend HCQ + zinc, not Azithromycin.”

    #1848284
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Doing my best
    “Those that ignore this fact and then publicly say that Hydroxychloroquine doesn’t work”

    who said that?

    Alittlesechel
    ” Lakewood is 2/3 Jewish we comparing only that segment of the population ”

    why only Jews?

    Health
    “So what your saying is – just like you couldn’t find my court case – you won’t be able to find my cure for Covid! ”

    No I’m saying they dont exist.
    And I can prove it: no Jew would withold revealing a treatment due to fears of “competition.” So you are lying about something.

    ready now
    ” I am really not picking on you!”
    Asking questions isnt picking on . ask away

    “But the POINT IS: you do NOT know which ones! You do not know which ones will do well without HCQ if they have symptoms.”

    correct and we do not know if HCQ helps or not
    So we have a bunch of patients who may or may not have done well without HCQ, and they did well with HCQ. What does that tell us? Nothing

    #1848288
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    Really? what med school did you attend? residency?

    #1848334
    bk613
    Participant

    @Health just stop. No one here actually believes you are a doctor. Instead of trying to play one online why not actually go back to school to become one.

    #1848258
    hhhggg
    Participant

    there actually was a randomized controlled study with 80 patients in china and it did work.

    Link removed 

    #1848338
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    The patients that were treated by Dr. Z had never been confirmed to have Covid 19, only symptoms. They were not tested for the specific virus only some generic flu. There is no sound data provided by Dr Z to support his conclusions.

    #1848348
    Health
    Participant

    CS -“Really? what med school did you attend? residency?”

    I’m not revealing anymore about myself.

    #1848349
    som1
    Participant

    all the crazy anti vaxers should be happy the doctors havent found a vaccine cuase when they do they would be going crazy since it “cuases” autism! SAD BUT TRUE 😥😪

    #1848352
    Health
    Participant

    Ubiq -“No I’m saying they dont exist.”

    I know – You’ve been saying that for years. But for 2 million, I’ll give you the court case.

    “And I can prove it: no Jew would withold revealing a treatment due to fears of “competition.” So you are lying about something.”

    I haven’t withheld anything!
    From page one:
    “First of all, I have a possible tx. for very sick pts., but I’m still trying to get a pharm. corp. involved.
    2nd, I recommend HCQ + zinc, not Azithromycin.
    It should be given early on. If given early enough, just take Zinc.”

    You see?!?
    For very sick pts., I’d give you the formula, but I don’t make drugs or chemicals, I need to partner with the Pharm. corps.

    #1848362
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Ubiquitin,
    “So we have a bunch of patients who may or may not have done well without HCQ, and they did well with HCQ. What does that tell us? Nothing”

    The problem with this is that normally if a doctor sees 5-600 patients who are at risk, (breathing troubl, co-morbidity, over 60) about 1 in 6 would end up in the hospital. that didn’t happen with Zelenko’s batch. the probability of Zelenko just getting luck is extremely low. Plus you have to explain the reports coming out of Lenox Hill. And all the other doctors experiencing lower hospitalization rates. Unless they are all lying???

    Please, with your medical training, explain clearly to us laymen why the above is 1) untrue 2) if it is true why it doesn’t show us anything. If you can’t explain that, and i’d like to believe you think you can, then you should please stop professing to know for sure that Hydroxychloroquine isn’t helping any early stage COVID-19 patients.

    #1848371
    highpeaks
    Participant

    Everyone who can’t get Hydroxychloriquine should buy Quercetin which is also a zinc Ionophore so may work the same. It’s safe and good to take with a zinc supplement. Montreal researchers are studying it now to treat coronavirus.

    #1848390
    Health
    Participant

    Bk – ” No one here actually believes you are a doctor. ”
    I really don’t care what you believe. And I never posted I’m a doc. But I do know more medicine than the medical guys that post here!

    #1848592
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “I know – You’ve been saying that for years. But for 2 million, I’ll give you the court case.”

    So this might surprise you, but the market for fake supreme court cases has crashed and I’m sorry you wont be getting much.

    “And all the other doctors experiencing lower hospitalization rates. Unless they are all lying???”

    At no point did I say or imply that anybody, let alone everybody is lying

    “then you should please stop professing to know for sure that Hydroxychloroquine isn’t helping any early stage COVID-19 patients.”

    I’d love to explain anything you have trouble with but you have to read what i wrote. At No point did I claim to know, let alone to “know for sure”, that Hydroxychloroquine wasnt helping.
    In fact In my first post on this thread I explicitly said the opposite “For more moderate patients is questionable, I’d err on the side of giving.”

    #1848625
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq: you wrote “So we have a bunch of patients who may or may not have done well without HCQ, and they did well with HCQ. What does that tell us? Nothing”

    No incorrect.
    What it does tell us is that the 7 % to 13 % who would have died had they not received the HCQ with the antibiotic and the zinc did not die!

    that is the point. 

    #1848677
    Health
    Participant

    Ubiq -“So this might surprise you, but the market for fake supreme court cases has crashed and I’m sorry you wont be getting much.”

    I never met S/O like you before; you admitted that you’re a Nefro, not a Lawyer, but you insist (for years) that I never had a court case that went to the US Supreme Court. I hope that you don’t ever practice in Jersey – so I won’t have to ever deal with you!

    #1848713
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Ready
    “What it does tell us is that the 7 % to 13 % who would have died had they not received the HCQ with the antibiotic and the zinc did not die!”

    Sadly that is incorrect.
    Remember he is selecting the walking well. Where did you get your figure that 7-13% of those who are walking well will die from corona?
    Furthermore, in his interview s he reports most of them weren’t even tested? Who says they had corona at all?

    #1848747
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq:
    You made you “walking well”! You say “well”, everyone else says ” I am running from this”!
    The people he treated had coronavirus symptoms which are different from the flu.
    Of all people who have symptoms 7 to 13% die, see the stats everywhere from many countries, that is the pandemic you appear to dismiss as not requiring serious measures.

    #1848763
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Health
    “I never met S/O like you before; you admitted that you’re a Nefro, not a Lawyer, ”

    So, I guess you dont know this but information about ALL supreme court cases are publicly available to lawyers and non-lawyers alike. Now just in case secret supreme court cases are not available, this too may surprise you but I have some friends who are lawyers , and they assured me (as I expected) that there where no secret supreme court cases. Of course it is possble that there is a super secret supreme court that only you know about , but bad news if only you know about it I’m not interested.

    For some good news: I don’t practice in NJ so your safe.

    ready now
    “walking well” is a term that decribes people who have mild symptoms but would otherwise contiue their daily life, cough, mild fever, mild myalgias. THe VAST VAST majority of these patiens do well without any treatment.

    “Of all people who have symptoms 7 to 13% die, see the stats everywhere from many countries’

    I cant look “everywhere” provide one such source please. Ive seen a fatality rate as high as 9% of those TESTED (not those with mild symptoms) at ncov2019

    ” that is the pandemic you appear to dismiss as not requiring serious measures.”

    you have me mixed up with somebody else. I was among the first here who realized how bad the pandemic was (and explained to others why it is so much worse than the flu) I see the results of the pandemic first hand Ive waded through emergency rooms with barely room to walk Ive directed dialysis nurses who should get dialyssi with outr limited machines and staff (this doesnt get as much press as vents but there is a shortage of ALL medical equipment)
    I cannot fathom which comment you took as dismissing the pandemic

    #1848864
    Health
    Participant

    Ubiq -“So, I guess you dont know this but information about ALL supreme court cases are publicly available to lawyers and non-lawyers alike.
    Now just in case secret supreme court cases are not available, this too may surprise you but I have some friends who are lawyers , and they assured me (as I expected) that there where no secret supreme court cases. Of course it is possble that there is a super secret supreme court that only you know about , but bad news if only you know about it I’m not interested.”

    Ha-Ha. I guess your friends didn’t tell you the whole truth. They separate the cases from the oral arguments to the other ones. I was from the other ones.

    #1849006
    Health
    Participant

    From Medscape:
    “According to a consensus statement from a multicenter collaboration group in China, chloroquine phosphate 500-mg twice daily in tablet form for 10 days may be considered in patients with COVID-19 pneumonia.[24]Wang et al reported that chloroquine effectively inhibits SARS-CoV-2 in vitro.”

    #1849056
    Doing my best
    Participant

    Ubiq,
    “Remember he is selecting the walking well. Where did you get your figure that 7-13% of those who are walking well will die from corona?”
    7% is the percentage of AT-RISK patients who die. Apparently you don’t realize that every hospitalized patient started off as a so called “walking well”.
    Just to go over it again, that means if you take a random sample of 500 at-risk people who have symptoms, about 30 should end up dying. Agreed? Great!

    So if a Dr. Like Dr. Zelnko treats 500 random at-risk patients, we would assume about 30 of them will end up dying
    Since the number was more like 0, assuming my facts are mostly correct, any sane person would realize that Dr. Zelenkos treatment plan works if started in an earlier stage than the deathbed.

    #1849111
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq,
    The following is a headline from dailymail ” Britain’s coronavirus deaths surge past grim 10,000 milestone – even as death and infection rates drop: Further 737 people die taking total to 10,612 as cases rise by 5,288 to 84,279″
    10,612 divided by 84,279 = That makes 12.59% death rate.
    Very serious. Side effects can be avoided if patients are screened for heart trouble, they might even be able to have the medication for a more limited time, perhaps.

    #1849123
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    “7% is the percentage of AT-RISK patients who die”

    source please

    “Apparently you don’t realize that every hospitalized patient started off as a so called “walking ill”.”
    sometimes yes, sometimes no.

    “Just to go over it again, that means if you take a random sample of 500 at-risk people who have symptoms, about 30 should end up dying. Agreed?”

    key owrds: “random sample”

    “So if a Dr. Like Dr. Zelnko treats 500 random at-risk patients, ”
    Yes! If he did that.

    but……. he didnt do that. As IVe been saying over and over HE SELECTED the walking well. He is limited to Kiryas Joel (maybe they have extra fluoride in the water that helps? maybe they have a better hospital system, it isnt random”

    “Agreed? Great!”
    It is great!
    You finally get it. To have meaning, he would need to take a “random sample” (your words)
    He didnt, thus his data s not necessarily generalizable.
    Again and toeb crystal clear: He may be right (as Ive said in the first comment and about every other comment since then). but his data does not show that As YOU acknowedge by the fact that you stuck in the word ” random” which is not what happened

    #1849134
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ready now

    “Very serious”
    Yep as IVe been saying for months

    In fact your outlier case shows just how important social distancing is.The UK at first tried doing what many here suggested, namely to isolate just those at risk, and let everybody else continue on their merry way.

    “Side effects can be avoided if patients are screened for heart trouble, ”
    Do you know if Dr Zelenko is getting pre and post treatment EKGs on these patients while adding two QT prolonging medications?

    #1849142
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    secondly, ready now

    “Further 737 people die taking total to 10,612 as cases rise by 5,288 to 84,279″
    10,612 divided by 84,279 = That makes 12.59% death rate.”

    Approximately 0% of Dr. Zelenko’s patients would be in the denominator of that figure (had we been in the UK) because that is percentage of those TESTED. As Dr. Zelenko readily reports, he did NOT test his patients

    #1849144
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq,
    “it isn’t random” because he is saving sick people’s lives.

    How on earth was he supposed to use his med regimen on people who in a “random sample” might not even have had coronavirus infection?! Of course he treated sick people as he said.

    “if you take a random sample of 500 at-risk people WHO HAVE SYMPTOMS” means that it is random only in the sense that it is “first to need my services will ring my office for an appointment first”, and they are not selected by any other criteria, eg, gender, age , height, or any other disability or disease.

    #1849167
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ready now

    This conversation is going down some strange rabbit hole, and I am no longer sure what your point is.

    To remind you we are discussing “why doctors don’t want to give hydroxychloroquine even though it is working throughout the country (lenox hill, KJ, etc.) and has almost no risk (no heart attacks have been reported even though many doses have been given)?”

    THAT is the discussion

    You now ask “How on earth was he supposed to use his med regimen on people who in a “random sample” might not even have had coronavirus infection?! ”
    I have no idea what you are saying. a. He DID give his regimen to people who might not have it and b. We don’t know what would have happened to any sick people had they not gotten it (the vast vast majority of these patients do fine)
    Again to be clear: I am not saying he is wrong. I am not faulting him for not doing a proper RCT. I am solely answering the question, why just because he says he has success others aren’t convinced.

    “means that it is random only in the sense that it is “first to need my services will ring my office for an appointment first”, ”

    Then it isn’t random. you are selecting one area, you are selecting those with minor symptoms, you are selecting those who are more conscientious as to how they are feeling (“first to need” ) , as others have pointed out the demographics of his patients are not generalizable. AGAIN this isn’t a fault with him. It is just why this may not be generalizable.

    Here is a summary of his study:
    500 patients who may or may not have had Coronovirus, and who were feeling pretty well with mild symptoms took HCQ and did not die.

    Do you disagree with any point of the above synopsis?
    Do you really not understand who some would not find that compelling?

    #1849225
    Mammele
    Participant

    Ubiq,

    You have a few things wrong.

    1. He’s not just treating patients that reside in KJ. IIRC they’re about half his patients. So nothing in the local water…

    2. He’s treating patients WITH SYMPTOMS. Even his naysayers don’t claim he’s not a good doctor. So you’d have to believe he’s clueless if you claim that because most patients weren’t tested they don’t have Corona. As a medical professional, do you need a test to show someone’s skin is pale and clammy, their eyes are jaundiced etc? Or do you use your educated judgement? Why is Coronavirus different? Especially so since Coronavirus is very prevalent in the frum communities. If the Spanish flu had no test, did that pandemic never happen?

    3. Walking well is a misnomer. With a few exceptions, he’s treating patients with his regimen IF THEY HAVE PRE-EXISTING CONDITIONS OR ADVANCED AGE that put them at a higher risk, or have DIFFICULTY BREATHING without necessarily having other risk factors.

    I have to add that I don’t know his current numbers, so his success rate may have changed.

    I also find this thread a bit comical, as there a flash-backs here of an old feud, and there’s not even a clear disagreement on all points, yet the arguments and counter-arguments keep on flying…

    #1849243
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Mamale

    1. So if not the water maybe its the air. (I dont mean thsi literally I’m just pointing out ONE problem with generalizing his data)

    2. “Even his naysayers don’t claim he’s not a good doctor.”
    I never implied otherwise. nor am I a naysayer.

    “So you’d have to believe he’s clueless if you claim that because most patients weren’t tested they don’t have Corona”
    I never claimed that. I said we don’t know

    “As a medical professional, do you need a test to show someone’s skin is pale and clammy, their eyes are jaundiced etc?”
    Those are symptoms not a diagnosis. It would be pretty impressive if someone could see someone’s skin as pale and clammy and diagnose the organism that was causing sepsis

    “Why is Coronavirus different?”
    Its not, and you (like many posters here) are missing the point. I’m not faulting him for treatign his patients as if they had corona with no test.
    I am saying that (is part of the reason that ) data is therefore not generlizable

    3. He (by definition) is treating those wit hsymptoms so mild that they don’t need an ER . would fair just as well had they been sicker? may be maybe not (I’m not slaying they wouldn’t have I’m saying we don’t know )

    “I also find this thread a bit comical,”
    totally!

    I ma not saying anything remotely controversial . I am not sure how this is a debate.
    I’m not criticizing the doctor, I am not saying it shouldn’t be prescribed (both of which I’d understand why people would get riled up)
    All I am saying is why although one person may have had success, it isnt so cut and dry

    I’m honestly confused and slightly amused that this thread is causing so much angst.

    #1849252
    Health
    Participant

    To Doc Zelenco,
    Before you publized your tx., you should have done this. Now start doing this:
    Give the pts. a script for a lab test for Covid19; if pos. then give HCQ & Zinc for 10 days. Before & after, get an EKG! Don’t add Z pack unless there is another indication, Eg. Bacteria infection.

    #1849346
    Doing my best
    Participant

    1) DR. Z did take a random sample, 1000 random people with symptoms came to him.
    2) I believe that all people with COVID-19 in the hospital used to not be in the hospital, and that before they came to the hospital they also had COVID-19 for longer than 1 day. That means everyone starts off “Walking well”.

    The issue with what your saying is not that you don’t want Hydroxychloroquine. I understand that you have no issue with him prescribing it. The issue is that someone else reading your comments may think that there is not proven -even anecdotally- that it works. Which is not true, because Hydroxychloroquine has been shown to help prevent at risk patients from ending up in the hospital.

    #1849411
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    DMB
    “1000 random people with symptoms came to him.”
    If they came to him, by definition it isnt random

    “That means everyone starts off “Walking well”.”

    No this is incorrect.
    Some get a fever, others start out with significant shortness of breath and hypoxia. There are increasing reports of anosmia (lack of smell) being the sole symptom still others have no symptoms at all.

    Look at it this way. some people find out they have it when they are crashing in the ER. Others find out when they have mild symtpoms and go to tget tested. Stil l others will find out in the future when they are found to have antibodies. (do you deny this?)

    Are you really suggesting that these groups would all follow the same trajectory? Are you denying that there are different levels of severity at presentation.
    I’m honestly not sure what you are saying, and Im beginning to suspect you arent so sure either.

    “The issue is that someone else reading your comments may think that there is not proven”
    thats not an issue. Dr Zelenko would agree. It is not proven, his argument is what the harm, and I;m not sure I disagree.

    Your question was “Does anyone understand why doctors don’t want to give hydroxychloroquine…”
    Ive answered it.
    you think those doctors are wrong nad everybody should go to Zelenko, beseder he has been all over promoting himself don’t worry I’m not stopping anybody
    I’m not sure why you are still hocking ah cheinik with incorrect statements

    #1849413
    ready now
    Participant

    Ubiq wrote: “I have no idea what you are saying. a. He DID give his regimen to people who might not have it and b. We don’t know what would have happened to any sick people had they not gotten it (the vast vast majority of these patients do fine)”

    a0 No, he gave the regimen to people who showed symptoms.

    b) If any sick people would not have been given his regimen, some may have died, has v’sholom.

    c) By not giving the regimen to sick people who later do “fine”, he is exposing them to death as he cannot foretell or predict who will become sicker and then die.

    d) You are asking for sick people to not be treated, for the sake of a “scientific study”, when it is known that the medication, in a life and death scenario, does on occasion work. That is not good, in the real world.

    #1849455
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    Ready

    “No, he gave the regimen to people who showed symptoms.”

    Yes fever, cough these are vague symptoms that may or may not have been covid19.

    “b) If any sick people would not have been given his regimen, some may have died, has v’sholom.”

    How do we know that
    This is precisely my point. How are you still repeat ing this, are you reading my comment s?
    I addressed this so many times.

    “c) By not giving the regimen to sick people who later do “fine”, he is exposing them to death as he cannot foretell or predict who will become sicker and then die.”

    See above

    “d) You are asking for sick people to not be treated, for the sake of a “scientific study”, when it is known that the medication, in a life and death scenario, does on occasion work. That is not good, in the real world.”

    I’m not asking for anything. I’m not sure where you got this from

    #1849465
    2scents
    Participant

    If we can shorten and simplify this discussion.

    No one claims there is clear evidence that Hydroxychloroquine works.

    Medicine in general is based on clear data/evidence.

    Even Dr. Z. Said that all he has is anecdotal observations.

    He agrees that this does not meet the standard for medical treatment protocols, but is making the argument that these are unusual times and his anecdotal observations should be accepted.

    Some primary care physicians are prescribing it even out if hospital, some asking that the patients get an ekg before starting the meds, as well as after day 1.

    #1849466
    2scents
    Participant

    Ready now,

    Your making assumptions which may or may not be factual.

    There is more to managing sick patients other than Hydroxychloroquine and zinc.

    Patients are being proned, some are gicing anticoagulants for micro thrombosis and plasma from people with high antibodies.

    A lot of what is being done is based on anecdotal observations, we are getting smarter and learning more every day, just not yet smart enough.

    Hashem should help that all the sick should have a speedy recovery.

    Btw, its shocking how we were all fooled into thinking that this is some mild flu like virus.

    #1849476
    ready now
    Participant

    “some may have died, has v’sholom”
    yes “MAY” have died.

    No not making any assumptions, just taking what the Dr said at face value, that he is sure the ones he treated were coronavirus.

    Oh, by the way, have you noticed that the TB vaccine may also be useful?

    #1849480
    ready now
    Participant

    Further to what I wrote just above,
    see: “Heart risk concerns mount around use of chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 treatment” (google it) to see the tests for HOC.

    They are NOT using an untreated control group.

    COULD NOT SEE ANY ZINC THERE!
    It is zinc that does the final knockout to the virus! Where is it?

    #1849485
    ubiquitin
    Participant

    ready now

    “No not making any assumptions, just taking what the Dr said at face value, that he is sure the ones he treated were coronavirus.”

    and thats fine. I’m not trying to dissuade you from following his advice. that is not the topic of this thread.

    “Oh, by the way, have you noticed that the TB vaccine may also be useful?”
    Yes. (“MAY” being the key word)

    “They are NOT using an untreated control group.”

    The article refrences “Chloroquine diphosphate in two different dosages as adjunctive therapy of hospitalized patients with severe respiratory syndrome in the context of coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) infection: Preliminary safety results of a randomized, double-blinded, phase IIb clinical trial (CloroCovid-19 Study)” They are studying the safety of High dose HCQ.

    and here is the kicker…. they found it WAS NOT safe, and they halted the trial early!
    Did you read the article??
    That’s your proof that everybody should take HCQ??
    how baffling

    “It is zinc that does the final knockout to the virus! Where is it?”
    a. The Zinc wont make the HCQ safer
    b. SO dont use HCQ alone, use it with ZINC. I’m not sure what your point is

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