Joining Chabad

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  • #1695665

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    ncb could you elaborate?
    The different minhogim between other chassidim and chabad
    And why only chasam sofar or rama?

    #1695717

    LerntminTayrah
    Participant

    Any gadol who spoke out against chabad becomes a target of a smear campaign to say he’s a koton. So no need. to smear gedolim unnecessarily But they’re out there. So ask your mesorah why they’re against chabad.

    For the record there’s chabad non-Lubavitch that you can get into, eg the mesorah of the Rogatchover , the Malach zt”l, or others. The Beis Haleivi married the daughter of a Lubavitcher, so obviously Litvaks held of Lubavitch early on.

    #1695724

    TheFakeMaven
    Participant

    nonpolitical: I would really like to respond to your comments, but since you didn’t say anything yet I guess I’ll need to wait. Sigh…..

    #1695729

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    I think that’s just blasphemous to say such thing about other jews

    #1695812

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    “If you don’t like the way you grew up, you could tweak it a little, as long as you stay faithful to Halakha.” – Rabbi Benzion Klatzko / Good examples of Halakhos that they don’t follow would be: Not eating before Davening, caring about Sof Zman Tefilla, Learning Mussar- or ANYTHING that isn’t Chassidus (and yes I know that’s a minority, but they’re very vocal, just like Meshichists), and being careful with the learning and teaching of Kabbalah. If you follow Halakha, you should be fine.

    #1695976

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “The different minhogim between other chassidim and chabad”
    1’s point was that Chassidim might claim they’re more authentically following the older mesorah than Litvaks. Examples of this would include yotzros, late minchah (even the no tachanun part is based in the Rema), M”A zmanim, R. Tam’s tzeis, and several parts of davening that most modern Litvaks skip al pi haGra.

    As for Chabad-specific things, people have already mentioned several. There are many Chabad minhagim which everyone is fine with, but those aren’t the ones they are known for. They’re known for the ones like eating before shachris, no seudah shlishis, davening late, etc.

    “And why only chasam sofar or rama?”
    That was lav davka. Any Ashkenaz sect should not ignore the Rema. The Chasam Sofer is a specific example because almost all Chassidim regard him very highly, while Chabad, on the other hand, will brazenly and erroneously call him a misnaged. Just an example of the deep divide between Chabad and Chassidim.

    #1696115

    TomimTihyeh
    Participant

    Just as each shevet had their own shaar and nusach hatefilloh, and for those who did not know their shevet there was a nusach hakoleil, which is the nusach of the Arizal as given to us by the Alter Rebbe, so too there is a derech hakoleil in Yiddishkeit which is appropriate for each and every Yid (even though a few yechidei seguloh might recognize their shoresh haneshomo and have a derech which is appropriate for them specifically, but not for others, these are few and far between). This derech is the derech of the Baal Shem Tov, as further elucidated by his primary talmid the Mezeritcher Maggid, and continuing through the doiros from Rabboiseinu Nesieinu until and including Kevod Kedushas Admor the Rebbe edited. This it is appropriate for each and every Yid to spend time studying and internalizing Chassidus Chabad, and being miskasher to the Nossi Hador, the Rebbe. Each Yid can do this while maintaining the minhogim and piskei halocho followed in his kreiz, as the Rebbe told many many people who came to Him from other kreizen, yet if he chooses he can also make an informed decision to adopt minhogei upiskei Chabad, as we see throughout the doiros that people chose to follow new kinhogim and paskened differently al pi klolei hapsak, ve’ein loi ledayon elo ma sheeinov roiois.

    #1696131

    1
    Participant

    Someone along the lines rebelled against his father. That’s what I have trouble with wgen it comes to minhagim.

    #1696160

    Sechel HaYashar
    Participant

    “Not eating before Davening, caring about Sof Zman Tefilla, Learning Mussar- or ANYTHING that isn’t Chassidus”

    Say what? Such utter tripe! In fact, most of what we learn inbChabad Yeshivos isn’t Chassidus.

    #1696172

    Uncle Ben
    Participant

    TT; Stop the nonsense, the nusach hakoleil is the nusach that the Anshei Kneses Hagedolah were mesaken. That is the basic nusach that all Yidden daven. The 12 nuschaos of the Shevatim were long lost to us. Even official Chabad seforim write this. They just claim that the nusach of the Ari is the most “perfect” or “original” version of it.

    #1696184

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    eating before shachris
    Orach Chaim 89:3 and 4
    one whose hunger or thirst would affect his ability to concentrate on his prayers. the rambam explicitly states that one who is hungry and feels that he will not be able to concentrate should eat before praying

    So, eating before praying is not unique to Chabad – as demonstrated above, it is normative Jewish law. Nevertheless, it is more prevalent in Chabad because in Chabad it is traditional to study chassidic teachings before the morning prayers,
    ________

    seudas shlishis
    Minhag Chabad is to make sure to taste something for Shalosh Seudos, they don’t wash for bread because of the Posuk “Hayom Lo”.

    What this means is as follows: The Gemarah in Shabbos learns out the obligation to eat 3 meals of Shabbos from the following Posuk: “And Moshe said, eat [the Monn] today (Hayom), because today (Hayom) is a Shabbos for Hashem, today you will not (Hayom Lo) find [the Monn] in the field”. Since the Pasuk says the word “Hayom” 3 times (when speaking about the Monn which served them as bread), we learn that one must eat 3 meals on Shabbos.

    Based on the words of Rabbeinu Bechayei the Tzemach Tzedek rules (Piskei Dinim Chiddushim on Rabbeinu Yerucham p. 357) that since this meal is learned from the words “Hayom Lo”, unlike the first two meals which are learned from the word “Hayom”, we don’t need to eat bread for Shalosh Seudos, unlike the first two meals
    ___________

    davening late
    nothing to do with chabad, sorry.
    _________

    not Learning Mussar- or ANYTHING that isn’t Chassidus
    where did you got such nonsense from

    #1696243

    yehoshuaahron
    Participant

    First of all becoming Chabad doesn’t mean necessarily changing your minhagim, Chabad is a Chasidus meaning a derech in Avodas Hashem as Talmidim of the Chabad Admurim. Second the Inyan of Shlichus only started with the last two Rabbeim (primarily) and is not AT ALL, what defines Chabad’s Derech. Chabad Chasidus is without a doubt the deepest Chasidus with the most Torah (tens of thousands of Maamorim) and clear Derech in Avodah. The sheifa of a Chabad Chosid is to be a true Eved Hashem, a Tolmid Chochom, and Talmid of The Rebbe. (Not to become a Shliach, that’s just one prat although crucial to the needs of Klal Yisroel letzaareinu, but only additional to what being Chabad is.

    #1696290

    LerntminTayrah
    Participant

    Pointing out serious issues with a group isn’t sinas chinam, the same way the pointing out serious issues with Messianic Judaism isn;t hatred. In fact, most Lubavitchers today are tinokos shenishbu, unable to see beyond the cult they were born into, and unable to read the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and realize how many are being violated regularly. I love them all, even as I am pained by their behavior. They are very similar to Lev Tahor followers or followers of Eliezer Berland.

    you, however, are able to look at the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and see for yourself that
    1. Hashem alone runs the world, not in partnership with any Rebbe
    2. Hashem alone lives forever
    3. Hashem has no physical form, so you can’t say atzmus melubash baguf
    4. You are only allowed to Daven to Hashem, nobody else
    5. If a person claiming to be moshiach dies, that’s it for his candidacy. Quoting gemaras about Yaakov Avinu lo meis or similar doesn’t change the fact that in metzius, the Rebbe was niftar and got buried 25 years ago.
    6. If someone claims to be a navi and makes multiple false prophecies about when moshiach is coming (a good prophecy), then that person is a navi sheker. Not hatred, halacha.

    Like I said, they have forced and krum terutzim, and can fool regular people. But that’s why we have gedolim, who can tell you not to listen to forced and krum teirutzim. That’s why you need to listen to mesorah. There’s a reason the Gra refused to meet with the Baal Hatanya.
    Don’t listen to me, maybe I’m just a krum snag hater. Listen to your gedolim, follow your mesorah.

    #1696351

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “that since this meal is learned from the words “Hayom Lo”, unlike the first two meals which are learned from the word “Hayom”, we don’t need to eat bread for Shalosh Seudos, unlike the first two meals”

    It’s not a Chabad chiddush that you can be yotzei without bread; the Rema says so in hilchos Pesach and probably elsewhere. It’s a Chabad chiddush that you should for some reason avoid bread like it’s some kind of issur. Don’t pretend you didn’t understand the issue being raised.

    “So, eating before praying is not unique to Chabad”
    Chabadniks have achilas keva before shachris. This is what you guys always do. You focus on a facet of the issue where you have slight backing to throw a smoke screen over the greater picture and fool the less learned people. And, for the record, eating before shachis is for all intensive purposes unique to Lubavitch and MO people  (not the only area where those groups overlap).

    edited

    #1696349

    GAON
    Participant

    Lernr,
    Based pn your logic about “treif meat” are you makpid to eat ONLY Beis Yosef shchita or typical Glatt out there is good enough?

    #1696350

    GAON
    Participant

    Lernt,
    All your ranting is basically a case against extreme Meshichists. Many in Chabad do not agree with them, so you have not proven your case..

    #1696352

    GAON
    Participant

    For the record there’s chabad non-Lubavitch that you can get into, eg the mesorah of the Rogatchover , ”
    For the record the Ragatchover had the same mesorah as all Chabad had only he chose a diff rebbe. He did go to the Tzemach Tzedek and then to the Kapuster.

    Asides that, Rav Chaim of Brisk was very close with the Rashab as well. So was a Rav Itzele of Volozhin with the Tzemach..

    #1696354

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    “Lo sochlu al hadom”- Parshas Kedoshim 19:26. The Gemara in Berachos 10a and Sanhedrin 63a interprets this to mean not to eat before Davening. @anyusernameopen?, While there is a heter to eat before davening Beshaas Hatchak, aren’t you supposed to be the ones to go “Beyond the letter of the law”, A.K.A. Chassidim? Also, you’re right. Davening late is not just Chabad, but rather Chassidus as a whole has done away with Sof Zman Tefilla, as even Young Israel has an earlier Minyan than the Chassidim. Also, I didn’t say that you don’t learn other things, but rather that you don’t learn Mussar.

    #1696355

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    @lerntmintayrah, actually, the reason that the GR”A didn’t want to meet with the Ba’al Ha’Tanya is that he put them under Cherem, why would he violate is own Cherem?

    #1696358

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    @lmt your funny I love how clueless you are abt chabad, your arguments date back to the times of the Baal hatanya all of which are answered at great length in seforim
    I think the chofetz chain disagrees with your halachos

    #1696359

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    “Lo Sochlu Al HaDam”-Parshas Kedoshim 19:26. The Gemara in Berachos 10a and Sanhedrin 63a interpret this to mean not to eat before Davening. And yes, @Anyusernameopen?, while there is a heter Beshaas Hatchak, aren’t you the ones who are supposed to go “Beyond the letter of the law”? A.K.A. “Chassidim”? Also, I didn’t mean that you don’t learn ANYTHING besides Chassidus, but rather that you have COMPLETELY done away with any Mussar whatsoever. And you’re right, Doing away with Sof Zman Tefilla isn’t exclusive to Chabad, but rather Chassidus as a whole. (And then you still wonder why you were put under Cherem, when the Rambam clearly Paskens in Hilchos Talmud Torah, that anyone who is Mevazeh Talmidei Chachamim needs to be put under Cherem.)

    #1696401

    TheFakeMaven
    Participant

    For some reason people seem to be conflating two issues. First off you cant judge a movement by the actions of its adherents rather by the actual philosophy it teaches. Does Chassidus preach that one is supposed to daven after the zman? Does Chassidus say that one should eat before davening? Of course not. And those that bring up the Cherem have obviously never read the actual Cherem as its printed.
    And let’s not forget that their were many Rebbes who would put any Gadol alive today, such as the Ba’al Hatanyah, Chidushei Rim, Sfas Emes, Divrei Chaim, R’ Tzadok Hacohen etc… All their minhagim were and are based on Halacha.

    #1696394

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    Achilas kava ? Where’d you see or hear of such a thing.
    ______
    Lo sochlu al hadam
    Do you follow gemora or a clear psak shulchan aruch that its mutar?
    ______
    anyone who is Mevazeh Talmidei Chachamim.
    When did this happen

    Also did you ever hear why the vilna goan put the them in cherem? I’ll tell you a secret it had to do with him being told lashon horo

    Another point I’m sure you heard: that the misnagdim mosered on the Baal hatanya a false libel which ended up with the Baal hatanya being arrested – does this also have to do with claiming that someone was mevaze talmidei chachomim?
    ______
    It’s a Chabad chiddush that you should for some reason avoid bread like it’s some kind of issur

    Are we talking abt halacha or kabala
    But don’t say that its ageinst halacha
    _______
    Again you guys really need to learn a bit more before you say something against someone else

    #1696395

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    but rather that you have COMPLETELY done away with any Mussar whatsoever.

    Have you ever learnt chassidic to say such a thing?
    Chabad may not learn mussar as a subject but chassidus is full of mussar albeit a diff. Style then what your used to.

    #1696417

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “Are we talking abt halacha or kabala
    But don’t say that its ageinst halacha”
    Again, you’re using the exact same line of defense as the other guy. The topic is not whether or not you can be yotzei without bread. The topic is that you have a minhag to actively avoid bread. And, yes, it is halachically more l’hatchillah to use bread. You took the b’dieved and made it l’hatchillah and took the l’hatchillah and made it assur (for no reason). Should any rabbi be able to go and do that to the mesora?

    “Achilas kava ? Where’d you see or hear of such a thing.”
    Are you asking me what it means or when I’ve seen Lubavitchers do it? If the latter, are you really going to tell me you’ve never seen Lubavitchers eat a shiur of mezonos before shachris? I’ve even heard of them doing bagels, although I admit I’ve never seen that personally.

    #1696418

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    Oh, and can I clarify one thing. This isn’t meant as a criticism of the mods’ last edit or an attempt to get through moderated stuff. I totally understand why you took it out because of what it sounded like I was saying, but now it changed the meaning.

    I did not mean to claim that all MO people eat before davening. I know this is not the case. There was a second clause of that sentence that was not worded appropriately which meant to specify only certain MO people. It sounded like I was making an offensive generalization, which is why it was removed understandably given my propensity towards offensive generalizations.

    #1696440

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ NCB

    Your perseverance is admirable.

    #1696442

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    @thefakemaven, I actually have read it, and do bring it up, so…..

    #1696447

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    @Anyusernameopen?, “why the Vilna Gaon put them in cherem….him being told lashon horo”, don’t you think that maybe, just maybe, THE GAON had Ruach Hakodesh? “Anyone who is Mevazeh Talmidei Chachaimim. When did this happen?” Uh, like right when you guys started. Read any literature on this matter, and you will see that they belittled Torah Scholars and Scholarship. It was written in the Vilna Cherem (1772), and I quote “They belittle the study of the Torah, and repeatedly claim that one should not study much, nor deeply regret one’s transgressions.” Also, “Chabad may not learn Mussar as a subject but Chassidus is full of mussar albeit a diff. style then what you’re used to.” Mesorah, much?

    #1696456

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    “Just be a simple Jew, you have one G-D, you have the Shulchan Aruch, you have all the laws. You learn Chumash, you learn Gemara, you learn Rambam, you learn Shulchan Aruch, you learn Mussar. This is what you do. Why do you want to be all the time unique and special? why to invent new things, because you’re bored? What is this? There was no Judaism 3,100 years before this nonsense started? Rabbi Akiva didn’t have him (a Rebbe), so he couldn’t connect to Hashem? The Ari HaKadosh couldn’t connect to Hashem? There were all born in the wrong generation? For 3,100 years, all these holy people, they couldn’t connect to Hashem because there was no rabbi Ploney Almony? Do you really believe this nonsense?” – Rabbi Yosef Mizrachi (exerpted from 7:56 Do NOT idol worship any rabbi)

    #1696509

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    As I said he was told lashon hara
    Why should I assume he had ruach hakodesh if it’s written that the only reason why he made the charem was because of what he heard – which was a lot of lashon hara – look it up

    Dont you yourself say theres no ruach hakodesh these days?

    @ncb you’re really trying hard – good job – I admire ppl that fight for what they think is right.

    And btw you misunderstood the halacha/kabala thing which I didnt explain
    But it’s not againsthalacha or kabala what is done
    ______
    Achilas kava
    I think you were also told a lot of lashon hara abt chabad
    There may be a few that do eat but that you have in every group, nothing to do with chabad

    #1696510

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    Another trivia question:
    Where did the name misnagdim come from?

    It came from the misnagdim themselves
    And btw they called the chassidim the freiliche.

    #1696527

    Some Common Sense
    Participant

    Anyusernameopen,
    before you say anything about the Vilna Gaon and his lack of understand, you MUST be very careful for your Olam HaBa. His main student said when he dies that he was 100 days from being on the level of RITVA. If you do not understand the greatness of that statement, please learn Shas a few times with Rashi and Tos without Artscroll.

    #1696524

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    “And btw you misunderstood the halacha/kabala thing which I didnt explain
    But it’s not againsthalacha or kabala what is done”
    This is going to drive me crazy. I not only agreed that it’s mutar to use stuff other than bread; I gave you a better source than the one you had. Stop changing the subject. Nobody is saying you’re over an issur.

    Anyways, when someone on the thread starts bringing rayas from Yosef Mizrachi, it’s time to exit the party…

    #1696522

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    @mm
    Btw he was just banned from entering the UK because hes a radical… No proofs from him. – and he prob Holds your not jewish…. Look him up he claims only 1 million jews died in the holocust

    I’ll answer the other part later – that question was one of the first questions ever asked about chabad

    #1696556

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    Never said anything against him I was asking about his
    Ruach hakodesh
    And btw abt the cherem part it’s facts go look it up.

    Explain the 100 days thing please
    I never knew that’s how it work
    Y davka 100?

    #1696559

    5ish
    Participant

    The Shalishudis thing is such a moot argument. I eat probably 4 seudos every Shabbos.
    1 by night, one before shachris, one after shachris in shul, and one at home.

    #1696562

    TheFakeMaven
    Participant

    ModernMisnagid: You seem to be very confused as to whatthe chidush of Chassidus is. Tell me, did R’ Shimon need to ‘invent’ Kabbalah? Did the Ariza”l need to add to an invention? Chassdus invented things the same way the Ariza”l did; i.e. it is not an addition rather it is how to each and every Jew can understand Kabbalah in a practical way. The Nefesh HaChaim is very similar, and in fact relied heavily on chasidic interpretations (at least in the first three gates).
    There are a few differences between Chassidus and non-Chasidus as to how to understand a few major ideas of Ariza”l, which do translate to difference in hashkafah. However the Chassidic masters had the utmost respect for their contemporaries. For instance the Baal HaTanya never once spoke against the Gr”a, on the contrary he forbid it. Their were Chassidim that did things that were not condoned by Rebbes, but that was and is not Chassidus.

    #1696563

    Chossid
    Participant

    LerntminTayrah
    “In fact, most Lubavitchers today are tinokos shenishbu, unable to see beyond the cult they were born into, and unable to read the ikrei emunah of the Rambam and realize how many are being violated regularly. ”

    So if your not a dinok shenishbu
    Please explain all the עיקרי האמונה and why Chabad violates them.

    “1. Hashem alone runs the world, not in partnership with any Rebbe”

    Agreed, but what does it mean Hashem runs the world? How does השגחה פרטית work with this that we have בחירה חופשית?

    And btw we/yiddin are a shutif with a Hashem in creating the world, by us doing mitzvos we become a shutif with Hashem, (I forgot the exact loshon hamedrish)

    Please explain.

    “2. Hashem alone lives forever.”

    Don’t think it’s the right way of butting it, Hashem is מחויב המציאות, he never had a תחילה to have a סוף. So it’s not really fit to say that on Hashem.

    “3. Hashem has no physical form, so you can’t say atzmus melubash baguf”

    No person and כ”ש someone that learns chassidus would ever say that, because עצמות is impossible to be מתלבש in פרטים because כל עצם בלתי מתחלק, so how would that make sense that it’s mislabesh in a guff, אלא מאי, you should find out what he meant, before coming with daynios

    “4. You are only allowed to Daven to Hashem, nobody else”

    100% I don’t know anyone that davens to a Rebbe, but I do know people daven by the ohel for him to be a mielitz yoisher for us.

    5. If a person claiming to be moshiach dies, that’s it for his candidacy. Quoting gemaras about Yaakov Avinu lo meis or similar doesn’t change the fact that in metzius, the Rebbe was niftar and got buried 25 years ago.

    Please explain what yakov avinu lo mies means, did he have a kevurah?

    Learn the Gemorah, and the ein yakov thoroughly.

    6. If someone claims to be a navi and makes multiple false prophecies about when moshiach is coming (a good prophecy), then that person is a navi sheker. Not hatred, halacha.

    Please explain where you got this from, and what exactly did the Rebbe say.

    “Like I said, they have forced and krum terutzim, and can fool regular people.”

    Your personal opinion. Have you ever thought that you’re the fool?
    (Especially comparing Chabad to Lev Tahor find me one godel that said that.)

    “But that’s why we have gedolim, who can tell you not to listen to forced and krum teirutzim.”

    Who told you and what exactly did he tell you?

    I wonder why Rebbe Chaim kaniefsky had Rabbi Berel Lazarbin his office and accepted chabad chassidus seforim from him, (told his gabai to bring it to his room, so he can learn through the seforim.
    Harav shtiemen told people to send thier kids to a chabad school (in Italy) and don’t make your own school.

    Rabbi Lifshits spoke highly about chabad.

    Rabbi Yerucham Olshin made such an effort to come from lakeood to Rubashkins chassuna, and you see him in a video dancing to Lubavitcher niginim.

    And some Roshe Yeshiva (I forgot his name (the one that made a chierim against El Al a few months ago) is seen dancing with hundreds of Bochurim in a video dancing to a chabad nigun that was made in honor of the Rebbes birthday 40 years ago.

    So many Rebbeim and Rebbelach came to see, and visit the Rebbe. Check the safer Chad bedorah.

    I could go on and on, the point is, have you ever thought maybe chabad is not bad after all and it’s just bunch of loshin harah? or your going to call these rabbonim/Gedolim also tinoikos shinishbu, and supporting a cult??.

    I don’t need you to go explain everything, my only point is, that if you have טענות, go to a respected Lubavitcher rov/mashia and ask him your questions, (if you takeh believe that you are not a hater,) instead of writing it here and black lashing an eda kidiesha

    “Don’t listen to me, maybe I’m just a krum snag hater.”

    Efsher takeh

    “Listen to your gedolim, follow your mesorah.”
    100%

    That’s all I have got to say, have hatzlocha in all your endeavors.

    #1696564

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ anyuser

    “As I said he was told lashon hara”

    So you are choshed the GR”A of being over on an issur Torah of kabalas lashon hara. Got it.

    “it’s written that the only reason why he made the charem was because of what he heard”

    The ONLY reason you keep shabbos is because of what you heard from your parents and teachers. There are criteria for when what one hears is deemed credible. I think the Gr”A knew what it was. But a fool believes anything (Mishlei). So here you are being mivazeh a Talmid Chochom.

    “Dont you yourself say theres no ruach hakodesh these days”

    Who said so? Are you b any chance confusing prophecy with ruach hakodesh?

    “@ncb you’re really trying hard – good job – I admire ppl that fight for what they think is right.”

    Where you around for the last three threads on this subject the last of which was one of the longest on this site?

    “And btw you misunderstood the halacha/kabala thing which I didn’t explain…”

    Does this line (and its premise) sound familiar to anyone?

    #1696569

    Neville ChaimBerlin
    Participant

    I’ve never understood how, out of all the radical shittos held by Mizrachi, his skepticism of the 6 million number is the one that broke the camel’s back. I understand it’s wrong and offensive, but it’s not like there’s a chiyuv to to promulgate the number 6 million. YWN had a article which collected many of his statements and it made that particular comment seem pretty minor in comparison.

    #1696594

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    @Anyusernameopen?, actually, the name Misnagdim came from you guys, And, “no Ruach Hakodesh these days”, BTW, THE GAON lived like 220 years ago. Also, I’m not Mizrachi’s biggest fan either, but it’s the content, don’t shoot the messenger.

    #1696641

    LerntminTayrah
    Participant

    I don’t eat beis yosef meat ( ie “kelber glatt”, ie beis yosef chumros but also Rema chumros) because
    1.Our mesorah is like the Rema
    2. We currently do Hungarian glatt which only allows 2 small ririn- treif according to beis yosef but we ashkenazim have a right to our mesorah. I asked my rav if I should be makpid on “kelber glatt” and he told me no.

    The old seforim do NOT talk about modern Lubavitch, as the Rebbe went further than most chassidim with violations of the 13 ikkarim. So safeik apikorsus lechumra, and stay away. Gedolim said this, not just LMT in the Coffee Room. Ask your rabbeim and your rav. I’m not your poseik, neither is anyone else here. But you can look at the 13 ikkarim yourself, and see how the kashyes are much stronger than the teirutzim.

    The Rashab may have been friendly with the litvish gedolim, but was the beginning of the breakaway from the rest of klal yisroel when he came out with the idea that learning Gemara with meforshim was for galus, and his “Tomchei temimim” talmidim should focus on “chassidus” to bring geulah instead of the gemara like Litvish yeshivas did. He also put out pamphlets saying the Litvish yeshivas were full of kefira. (This is in Making of a Gadol for those who need a source) .

    This led to the “Shangai” disputes over who is a ben Torah worthy of the chaluka from Rav Kalmanowitz zt”l and Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l and who should rely on the Joint Distribution Committee. Rav Aharon kotler zt”l was also bitterly attacked by Rav YY Schneerson for meeting with various reshoim to save Jews. Rav Kotler zt”l responded with “I would bow to the Pope if it saved one nail of a Jewish child”. (A Fire in His Soul)
    More on this can be found in the book of Bryan Mark Rigg, “Rescued from the Reich”

    As mentioned, Chabad believes that only learning chassidus can bring the geula. And I mentioned how many gedolim hold that Chabad as kept in Crown Heights is kefira or apikorsus. So as a good “zeh neheneh vezeh neheneh” compromise, you can learn Tanya on your own. So you are bringing the geula lefi Chabad but avoiding the kefira/apikorsus of Lubavitch according to the gedolim of your mesorah.

    #1696656

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    “actually, the name Misnagdim came from you guys, ”
    incorrect. the misnagdim called themselves misnagdim (i know it sound funny) but thats a fact
    again you say thing without knowing facts.
    _______
    “As mentioned, Chabad believes that only learning chassidus can bring the geula”
    where’d you hear such a thing
    ________
    the Rebbe went further than most chassidim with violations of the 13 ikkarim.
    answerd by @chossid
    ______
    his skepticism of the 6 million number is the one that broke the camel’s back
    i didnt mean specifically that but b”h you got the point.
    (i thought your leaving the CR:) )
    ________
    So here you are being mivazeh a Talmid Chochom
    just stating facts about the lashon hara – look it up
    you still never explained how its possible to moser on someone a false libel just because you disagree with him
    __________
    This led to the “Shangai” disputes over who is a ben Torah worthy of the chaluka from Rav Kalmanowitz zt”l and Rav Aharon Kotler zt”l and who should rely on the Joint Distribution Committee.
    could you explain why they wrote clearly “that the money from the joint is not for chabad” and not just a criteria of a ben torah?????

    ________
    Where you around for the last three threads on this subject the last of which was one of the longest on this site?
    yes – i know very well his position
    and all the lashon hara you guys hear – making things up without ever seeing or hearing

    #1696672

    Chossid
    Participant

    “But you can look at the 13 ikkarim yourself, and see how the kashyes are much stronger than the teirutzim.”

    If you have a tayneh go explain yourself, and don’t just mock.

    As mentioned, Chabad believes that only learning chassidus “can bring the geula. ”

    When and where did chabad say this? You teaching me something new, I guess I’m clueless

    #1696673

    ModernMisnaged
    Participant

    @thefakemaven, correct, but Bar Yochai and The Ari weren’t put under Cherem. Also, you seem to be unfamiliar with the history behind Nefesh HaChaim. Reb Chaim saw that the Tanya misconstrued a lot of ideas, which is why he wrote a N. H. Which is basically a refutation of the Tanya. And on his deathbed, he said that it should be the first Sefer to be published, so that people should know the truth of the Torah.

    #1696680

    writer
    Participant

    “Rabbi Yerucham Olshin made such an effort to come from lakeood to Rubashkins chassuna, and you see him in a video dancing to Lubavitcher niginim.”

    -He must be lubavitch now since he visited a wedding and “danced” to lubavitch niggunim. Just curious was everyone sitting down when suddenly he heard a lubavitch niggun and felt such an impulse to dance to it? Or was everyone dancing to that music which was playing?
    I guess he should have requested a Litvishe tune to accommodate him since he was in charge of someone elses wedding right?

    This is the problem with you guys, someone visits a lubavitcher or listens to a dvar Torah so you already turn them into leaving their own minhagim and seeing “the light” of chabad. Seriously so childish. How can anyone show you respect when you use it as them “admitting” that lubavitch is the way. How many lubavitchers meet with the Litvish world but the Litvaks dont publish it on every media and social outlet they can?

    #1696683

    writer
    Participant

    Tomim”This it is appropriate for each and every Yid to spend time studying and internalizing Chassidus Chabad, and being miskasher to the Nossi Hador, the Rebbe.”

    What about all the other Nossi Hador of all past years?
    You do know that the Rebbe said in a sicha that to go around and tell another Yid that Tehillas Hashem is the only right Nusach, or that Tomchei Temimim is the only yeshiva to go to etc, isnt right to do.
    Btw why cant chabad accept that everyone has their own way?

    Neville-“Chabadniks have achilas keva before shachris. This is what you guys always do. You focus on a facet of the issue where you have slight backing to throw a smoke screen over the greater picture and fool the less learned people.”

    Exactly

    #1696657

    Anyusernameopen?
    Participant

    He also put out pamphlets saying the Litvish yeshivas were full of kefira. (This is in Making of a Gadol for those who need a source) .
    more lashon hara??????
    i learn new things every day
    i never realized how much lashon hara goes around in your circles

    #1696700

    Non Political
    Participant

    @ Thefakemaven

    “The Nefesh HaChaim is very similar, and in fact relied heavily on chasidic interpretations (at least in the first three gates).”

    Obviously, he relied on chassidus. It’s not like his Rebbe the GR”A was familiar with the Zohar and Kitvai HaAri, he needed the Baal HaTanya to explain it to him. Nebech.

    This is why people have given up. It would be one thing to have this discussion with Chossid and SH but any meaningful dialogue gets lost among this drivel. Soon TT will pipe in with a zinger…

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