King Charles and Queen Camilla
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- This topic has 122 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Always_Ask_Questions.
May 3, 2011 1:35 am at 1:35 am #596593EnglishmanMember
If you thought the pageantry of the Royal Wedding last week was elaborate, you ought to wait for when HRH Prince Charles, Prince of Wales and HRH Camilla, Princess of Wales ascend to the throne of England and her Commonwealths as King Charles and Queen Camilla!
Who else is looking forward to when the Princess of Wales, Camilla, becomes Her Majesty, Queen Camilla?May 3, 2011 2:09 am at 2:09 am #763334OfcourseMember
I’ll be barfing. Two unattractive home-wreckers.May 3, 2011 2:13 am at 2:13 am #763335GumBallMember
NOT ME!!May 3, 2011 2:28 am at 2:28 am #763336TheGoqParticipant
two words— who caresFebruary 20, 2022 2:55 pm at 2:55 pm #2062147
Apparently Charlie is getting impatient with Elizabeth hanging around so long. So he gets Covid and quickly infects his mother, in a not so apparently attempt to bring about his elevation to King and his wife’s coronation as Queen Camilla.
All this shortly after Lizzie announced she wants Camilla to utilize the title of Queen Consort rather than deferring to use merely Princess Consort, as previously announced upon her marriage (when sensitivities to the immoral Diana were still raw enough not to want to offend the British press with the idea that Camilla will be Queen, something Diana was [rightfully] denied.)February 20, 2022 3:54 pm at 3:54 pm #2062158
ujm, I suspects the same. Very Shakespearean drama: risking his own life for the throne …
Note that paranoid Putin is more careful than the Queen – he meets people at a 6 meter-long table. Hope, she is healthier, though.February 20, 2022 9:56 pm at 9:56 pm #2062179HohumParticipant
He’ll be king and she’ll be queen, it’s as simple as that.February 21, 2022 8:36 am at 8:36 am #2062337
yawnFebruary 21, 2022 8:38 am at 8:38 am #2062358hujuParticipant
TheGoq’s comment from 2011 is still on point.February 21, 2022 9:22 am at 9:22 am #2062395jackkParticipant
It is an opportunity.(Berachos 58A)
אָמַר רַבִּי יוֹחָנָן: לְעוֹלָם יִשְׁתַּדֵּל אָדָם לָרוּץ לִקְרַאת מַלְכֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל. וְלֹא לִקְרַאת מַלְכֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל בִּלְבַד, אֶלָּא אֲפִילּוּ לִקְרַאת מַלְכֵי אוּמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם, שֶׁאִם יִזְכֶּה — יַבְחִין בֵּין מַלְכֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל לְמַלְכֵי אוּמּוֹת הָעוֹלָם.
Rabbi Yoḥanan said: One should always strive to run toward kings of Israel to greet them. And not only should he run toward kings of Israel, but also toward kings of the nations of the world, so that if he will be privileged to witnesses the glory of the Messiah (Rashi) and the World-to-Come, he will distinguish between the kings of Israel and the kings of the nations of the world.
Are you looking forward to the pomp and circumstance of Queen Elizabeth’s funeral first?February 21, 2022 11:37 am at 11:37 am #2062444
R Yohanan says when dying “be afraid of King of Kings (at least ?) as the mortal Kings”. Given lack of power for the current monarchs, we should observe carefully remaining dictators – Hu, Putim, Kim, to appreciate what yerat shamayim is.February 21, 2022 4:07 pm at 4:07 pm #2062619
Dictators are not [i]melachim[/i], who rule by the will of their people,
but [i]moshlim[/i], who rule against the will of their people.February 21, 2022 4:21 pm at 4:21 pm #2062625
<i>(It’s been a while.)</i>February 21, 2022 5:11 pm at 5:11 pm #2062644
whatcha sighing about?February 21, 2022 10:59 pm at 10:59 pm #2062703
Not getting it right the first 2 times.February 21, 2022 11:46 pm at 11:46 pm #2062711
Random, a good point on melachim. This would exclude Kims, while Hu and Putin exist by some quiet agreement of their countries who did not come to rebel against them. Not different from melachim of the past who did not have frequent elections. The idea of democracy was considered unworkable for most of history between Athens and modernity – and, for me at least, it is still unclear whether it works and clearly pure democracies are bound to fail.February 22, 2022 4:36 pm at 4:36 pm #2063019
( “Direct democracy or pure democracy is a form of democracy in which the electorate decides on policy initiatives without legislative representatives as proxies. This differs from the majority of currently established democracies, which are representative democracies.” – Wikipedia )February 22, 2022 5:24 pm at 5:24 pm #2063071
Random, thanks for looking up wiki for me…February 24, 2022 10:46 pm at 10:46 pm #2063911
Sorry, I shouldn’t have assumed you were using “pure democracy” carelessly.
(At least it’s useful to anyone unaware of the meaning of the term.)
Regarding the “quiet agreement” of the Russian people…
DICTATOR PUTIN CRACKDOWN: Hundreds Arrested As Russians Protest Ukraine AttackFebruary 24, 2022 11:32 pm at 11:32 pm #2063928
Random, hundreds in the country of hundred million… Kol hakavod to them, of course, and understanding the risks others are afraid to take, but still… Check out Putin’s popularity, even if you can’t fully believe those surveysFebruary 27, 2022 9:13 am at 9:13 am #2064401takahmamashParticipant
“He’ll be king and she’ll be queen, it’s as simple as that.”
Incorrect, as has already been pointed out. He will become King, she will be the Queen Consort, not “the Queen.” There is a difference, Hohum, that you have failed to grasp.March 10, 2022 2:14 pm at 2:14 pm #2068158RR44Participant
Hey, what’s all the rudeness about the Brittish melucha? Where’s the basic respect and kibbud melochim?
What happened to לעולם יתפלל אדם בשלומה של מלכותMarch 10, 2022 4:47 pm at 4:47 pm #2068174
Non-British subjects (which constitutes the vast majority of the participants here as well as the world) need not respect or pray for the British royals.March 11, 2022 12:31 am at 12:31 am #2068321
I think the halakha is that you say a brocha seeing a monarch even when you are not a subject. You run to see him/her to appreciate a glimpse of power that is a small reflection of Hashem’s power.
Not sure about Americans. Maybe it is not appropriate of the colonies are still considered to be in rebellion. Not sure of treaty of Paris closed that chapter.
But to RR44, they are not reigning yet, so we should put it on record what we think of them now.March 11, 2022 1:14 pm at 1:14 pm #2068418
There’s no mitzvah or reason for anyone to respect or honor the kings of Swaziland, Ghana or of Nigeria.March 14, 2022 10:25 am at 10:25 am #2069085WolfishMusingsParticipant
What happened to לעולם יתפלל אדם בשלומה של מלכות
Well, this brings up an interesting question in the modern age. What is meant by “malchus?” It is the pagentry, pomp, dignity and history of the institution of the monarchy as personified in its current occupant? Or is it the actual governing power and the ability to change matters for the Jews favorably or unfavorably? If the former, the “malchus” in the UK is clearly the Queen. If the latter, it could easily be argued that it’s Parliament, who not only holds the everyday legislative power, but even has the power to remove the monarch or even abolish the monarchy altogether.
The WolfMarch 14, 2022 10:52 am at 10:52 am #2069094
Wolf: The British Parliament lacks unilateral power to remove the monarch or abolish the monarchy since the monarch can deny such an act royal assent, which would effectively ensure such an act doesn’t become legally effective.March 14, 2022 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2069107WolfishMusingsParticipant
Wolf: The British Parliament lacks unilateral power to remove the monarch or abolish the monarchy since the monarch can deny such an act royal assent, which would effectively ensure such an act doesn’t become legally effective.
While that may be technically true, it isn’t on a practical level. I’m pretty sure James II did not assent to the ruling of Parliament that he had abdicated the throne, and yet, at least in England, it was considered effective.
The WolfMarch 14, 2022 5:49 pm at 5:49 pm #2069174
Wolf: That’s absolutely incorrect. Great Britain is a Constitutional Monarchy (even though the United Kingdom lacks a written constitution) and a strict adherent to the rule of law. Indeed, the rule of law is one of the longest established common law fundamental principles of the governance of the United Kingdom, dating to Magna Carta of 1215. Britain could not and would not in the modern era discard the rule of law and its own constitutional principles to allegedly effect an act or law that is constitutionally void and legally invalid, such as purporting to extra-constitutionally effect an act that lacks legal legitimacy under the rule of law due to a lack of royal assent.March 20, 2022 2:15 pm at 2:15 pm #2070824
Wolf: Awaiting your rejoinder or concession.September 8, 2022 9:08 am at 9:08 am #2122414
Elizabeth’s health is deteriorating.September 8, 2022 11:21 am at 11:21 am #2122483
Most people would rather skip him for Prince William.September 8, 2022 11:44 am at 11:44 am #2122492
Reb Eliezer, send a memo to Charles to abdicate, Edward VIII style.September 8, 2022 12:47 pm at 12:47 pm #2122510
Many countries like Israel has a President and Prime Minister where the President is in the place of the queen non-political representing the country. In the US the flag is suppose to do that.September 8, 2022 1:45 pm at 1:45 pm #2122536
Queen Elizabeth II has died at around 1:30 PM at 96 being on the throne around 71 years.September 8, 2022 2:32 pm at 2:32 pm #2122562
Long live the King!September 8, 2022 3:55 pm at 3:55 pm #2122597AviraDeArahParticipant
Malchus is something we should learn to incorporate into our lives; we’re supposed to give honor to royalty because we can use it as a springboard to having respect for the real King of Kings. A bracha is made with shem Hashem on a king, because through seeing the middah of malchus down here, we can relate to malchus in shomayim. Malchusa d’arah ke’ain malchusa de’rakiah, chazal say.
It’s not a surprise that England is far ahead of most of the world in refinement, and proper behavior. Their culture has malchus wired into it; American culture, on the other hand, is rebellious by nature.September 8, 2022 3:57 pm at 3:57 pm #2122612
Can the Chief Rabbi attend the service at Westminister Abby?September 8, 2022 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #2122637
Camilla can never be queen due to an agreement signed by Queen Elizabeth, Charles and Camilla in 2005 prior to their marriage.September 8, 2022 4:54 pm at 4:54 pm #2122638September 8, 2022 6:14 pm at 6:14 pm #2122660
“Can the Chief Rabbi attend the service at Westminister Abby?”
Absolutely not.September 8, 2022 6:25 pm at 6:25 pm #2122663
At the time of the Queen’s Jubilee chief rabbi Mervis attended a prayer service for the Queen at St. Pauls. It has been explained that since the 1970’s the London Beis Din approved attendance if the Chief Rabbi was invited by the monarch. So if invited the chief rabbi could attend, unless the London Beis Din revokes their prior permissions.September 8, 2022 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #2122668ParticipantParticipant
Why is the wife of a King called Queen, but the husband of a Queen is a prince?September 8, 2022 7:13 pm at 7:13 pm #2122667ParticipantParticipant
“It’s not a surprise that England is far ahead of most of the world in refinement, and proper behavior.”
“Their culture has malchus wired into it”
Their culture eroded any meaning of the word Malchus. In other words, Britons associate a “monarch” with “long robes and crown”September 8, 2022 7:14 pm at 7:14 pm #2122671
It maybe part of his jobSeptember 8, 2022 7:17 pm at 7:17 pm #2122680
Amil: Incorrect. Firstly, Queen Elizabeth just seven months ago expressed her “sincere desire” that Camilla be known, recognized and titled as the Queen Consort once Charles ascends. Secondly, that decision by Elizabeth replaced the *informal* announcement at the time of Charles’ marriage that it was their “intention” that Camilla be known as Duchess after his ascension.
But even had that earlier intention not been changed by Elizabeth this year, Camilla would still under British law have been the Queen Consort and would have formally had that title, even had she chosen to refer to herself as Duchess.
All hail for Her Majesty The Queen Consort Camilla!September 8, 2022 7:58 pm at 7:58 pm #2122682
“Why is the wife of a King called Queen, but the husband of a Queen is a prince?”
Participant: Because the title King is a higher title than Queen. So if the Queen is the sovereign, her husband cannot have a higher title than herself, namely King. But if the King is the sovereign, his wife may have the lower title of Queen.September 8, 2022 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #2122684
UJM, just a reminder, I’m a female. I’m surprised you’ve set aside your convictions to reply to me. QC is a title with zero power, she can never be an HRH.September 8, 2022 8:06 pm at 8:06 pm #2122685DovidBTParticipant
Can the Chief Rabbi attend the service at Westminster Abby?
Jonathan Sacks, the former Chief Rabbi, attended the royal wedding there in 2011.September 8, 2022 8:07 pm at 8:07 pm #2122686
Kings and queens in the UK can only inherit their titles via their royal blood lines. Camilla will be married to the King but not be a HRH since she married into the bloodline ergo consort. This is simple to understand with a mere google.
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