King Charles and Queen Camilla

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  • #2122687
    ujm
    Participant

    Amil: The London Beis Din never permitted it, despite Mirvis’ church attendance. Indeed, prior to Sacks no Chief Rabbi attended church services.

    #2122698

    > Why is the wife of a King called Queen, but the husband of a Queen is a prince?

    there are 2 different systems: just one person being a king or queen (including British) or the one where both have Royal powers (as in fairtales)

    #2122700

    Avira,
    in US, you can say a brocha on the President or a Governor, probably bli shem.

    what is interesting to contemplate – during American revolution, UK was the biggest enemy, now US and UK (and other former British subjects) are closest partners. Sometimes, people fight those who are closest to them … We can learn from that.

    #2122694
    ujm
    Participant

    By the way, Camilla now being the Queen of England and all her Commonwealths is sweet payback for the adulteress Diana. (Even though Camilla herself is guilty of the same.)

    #2122696
    ujm
    Participant

    Amil: Queen Camilla’s formal title and style today is Her Majesty The Queen Consort. From 2005 until this morning it formally was “Her Royal Highness”.

    #2122742
    ujm
    Participant

    “Divorce and separation,” Queen Elizabeth said, “are responsible for some of the darkest evils in our society today.”

    And to answer the inevitable questions regarding her children’s divorces, the Queen’s self-proclaimed description of them was “annus horribilis”.

    #2122755
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Ujm, to use a britishism, how come you are so keen on royalty rules? Is it because of my idea expressed above, that malchusa de’ara etc..?

    There is a limit, as the rambam in shemoneh perakim lists 5 levels of dibbur, the last being devorim assurim, and the 4th being “devorim nim’asim,” in which he includes “how such and such king os noheg in his palace”

    #2122780
    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Ujm, my reply to that would be that it’s some of the darkest evils of our society that are responsible for divorces.

    #2122782
    lechoireh
    Participant

    “It’s not a surprise that England is far ahead of most of the world in refinement, and proper behavior.”
    In England it is not common for the royal family to release any information regarding the health of the queen, privacy is respected, vs, in this country the president has to release his full medical history.
    We need to learn t respect other people’s privacy here!!

    #2122785
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    Goldi, it’s a shame that a non-jewish queen’s hashkofos are closer to yiddishkeit than a frum person.

    Most marriages end because of normal human failures and frailties, especially money. For every divorce that involved abuse (from either spouse) there are hundreds, even thousands, that don’t.

    The percentage of people known to commit domestic abuse contrasted with the divorce rate can serve as ample proof of this. More than half of all marriages end in divorce in America, and fewer than 5% of the population are guilty of domestic violence(as per wikipedia) – that’s a pretty strong indication that despite sensationalist reporting of abused people, it’s not a very common cause of divorce.

    #2122889
    jackk
    Participant

    Lechoira,

    Here in America, we understood what the royal family was in the 1700’s and we rejected them and rebelled against everything that they represented.
    President’s are employees of the citizens of this Republic and the people deserve to know the particulars of their health (and taxes too). The royal family is not elected. So the British care about their health only because they have a insatiable curiosity to know everything about them. Prince Harry made the right decision to leave the royal prison.

    ““It’s not a surprise that England is far ahead of most of the world in refinement, and proper behavior.”
    Did you write this before or after your cuppa?
    I am gobsmacked. That is some bonkers wishful thinking. Didn’t you just kick out your sod of a PM for really being a minging muppet and prat?

    #2122905
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Charles contributed to Diana’s bulimia, swaying towards adultery and causing her death.

    #2122918
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, Diana’s commiting adultery is inexcusable. Under British law at the time, she was liable to be executed, as the law provided the death penalty if the wife of the heir to the throne committed adultery.

    #2122926
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    I don’t know why my comment about refinement in british culture is being so maligned – from what I’ve seen of their culture, speech, societal norms… It might be skin deep, as it was in Germany, but every time i hear en English person speak, i hear an aidilkeit. Are there low class people there? Of course – there’s a name for them, I don’t remember right now.

    Anyways i forgot to mention that divorce causes single parenthood, one of the key indicators for crime, imprisonment, suicide, drug use, and many other maladies.

    #2122929
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Camilla creates a bad taste.

    #2122944
    commonsaychel
    Participant

    There has not been any dignity in the Oval Office since 1992 and that includes office holders of parties.

    #2122958
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    ujm, is the heir to throne who commits adultery deserves to be executed.

    #2122970
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer, Diana was much worse.

    #2122976
    ujm
    Participant

    Diana and James Hewitt were guilty of the Treason Act 1351, starting in 1986, a mere five years or less into her marriage. But were subject to (and frankly should have been) executed under the law for having committed treason.

    #2122997
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    He threw the mother of his children aside as trash.

    #2123015
    Goldilocks
    Participant

    Ujm and Reb Eliezer: Adultery is always inexcusable, no matter who does it and what the reasons are.

    #2123025
    ujm
    Participant

    Reb Eliezer: the mother threw herself under the bus. And she got herself run over.

    Goldilocks: Absolutely.

    #2123473
    ujm
    Participant

    How is Her Majesty, Queen Camilla doing, after a few days on the throne?

    #2123507

    ujm, you could find out by a simple “how do you do” when you see her, but you have to ask thru a 3rd person given your stance on talking to women.

    #2123512
    Amil Zola
    Participant

    Darn it, was Camilla here? In other news of the royals, a home has been found for the dead queens remaining pooches. It seems Fergie and Andrew are taking them.

    #2123515
    🍫Syag Lchochma
    Participant

    no, that was Kamala who was here

    #2123517

    Hm, what a coincidence – both England and the Colony have both a dour man at the head, supported by a powerless woman with the same name. Except Joe is Jr (2nd) and Charles is the 3rd.

    #2123590
    moishekapoieh
    Participant

    me too: YAWN

    #2123643
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Don’t forget the Consort part of the title.

    #2123680
    ujm
    Participant

    The Queen is simply referred to as “Queen Camilla”. Although her full legal title is Camilla, Queen consort of the United Kingdom, she’s formally referred to as Queen Camilla, much as Elizabeth II’s mother, Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother, was simply known as Queen Elizabeth when her husband King George was alive.

    #2125589
    ujm
    Participant

    Prince Harry’s father is James Hewitt.

    #2125625
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    That would take him out of the line to be king then…

    #2125645
    ujm
    Participant

    They’re too embarrassed to admit it.

    #2125843

    > That would take him out of the line to be king then…

    THAT behavior would probably invalidate lots of kings along the line … Maybe a good reason for a sofek and saying brocha bli shem when meeting a Monarch?

    #2126352
    moishekapoieh
    Participant

    i flipped channels on the t.v., so i only saw parts of this meshugas. no one sneezed, no one coughed.
    only in britain.
    in america, there would be police lines blocking counter-demonstrators.
    i like the american way better.

    #2126360
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    According to the wikipedia on James Hewitt:

    Hewitt stated to the press in 2002 that Harry had already been born by the time of the affair, a statement also made by Diana’s police bodyguard.[23] He reiterated this in an interview in 2017.

    #2126370
    AviraDeArah
    Participant

    AAQ, a king in halacha is a king if they rule a country and have the power of life and death, according to some poskim. It doesn’t matter if they are legitimate in their own statutes and tachsisei melucha

    #2126378
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Avira, this king is a figure head without any power of life and death, so that halacha does not apply.

    #2126429

    > his king is a figure head without any power of life and death,

    yes, it looks like he is less deserving a brocha than a governor … although it looks like he can declare a war and that involves life & death.

    Also, do we say brocha on a ship captain – he hold life & death during the trip. Not sure about now, but surely did before telegraph and internet.

    #2126612
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    I don’t know, if the Prime Minister and Parliament do not concur to the king’s declaring war, is valid.

    #2126864

    So, do we have anyone left in this world that we can relate malchus to?!
    Do Xi, Putin, Kim count?! The gevurah side?

    Maybe learning world history about Pharaohs and Ninve kings will give us an idea

    #2126875
    ujm
    Participant

    Saudia Arabia is an absolutely monarchy today. So are Dubai, Oman, Brunei, Abu Dhabi and the Vatican.

    #2126879
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    Does MBS of Saudi Arabia have the power?

    #2127129
    ujm
    Participant

    MBS is the heir apparent Crown Prince. His father is the absolute monarch.

    #2128363
    ujm
    Participant

    Trivia: When did England have three Queens simultaneously?

    #2128574
    Marxist
    Participant

    @ujm

    Yes, but King Salman is aging and MBS is considered the de facto ruler.

    #2128641
    Reb Eliezer
    Participant

    MBS was just appointed Prime Minister, the de facto leader by King Salman.

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