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June 22, 2025 1:59 pm at 1:59 pm #2416262frishe kigelParticipant
Would love to hear people’s thoughts on this article on YWN
June 22, 2025 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #2416327emesdik613ParticipantI thought the article was excellent, so well written and accurate.
How could anyone not notice how ridiculous the wigs have become, and what a mockery they are making of this commandment. Bh there are many women that have become aware of this great breach of modesty and have recently upgraded to only cloth head coverings.
In their merit we will surely be zoche to see great yeshuos!June 22, 2025 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #2416332emesdik613ParticipantThis letter should be read by every Rav and Rebbetzin!
June 22, 2025 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #2416359GadolhadorahParticipantThe article fails to address a reality that has been studied and documented in both a secular and religious context. For most men today, a woman’s hairstyle (whether real hair or a sheitel) is not a primary factor in triggering inappropriate thoughts. That is not mean deny the fact that from a torah perspective, it is a significant tzinius concern. However, the large percentage of men cite to overly-revealing and form fitting clothing and a woman’s overall demeanor, as the most relevant factors in attracting attention. That MAY be a factor in why there is less attention to hairstyles in sheitels and why even frum women often use overly-styled sheitels as an allowable form of expressing their individuality.
June 22, 2025 4:34 pm at 4:34 pm #2416360GadolhadorahParticipantThe article fails to address a reality that has been studied and documented in both a secular and religious context. For most men today, a woman’s hairstyle (whether real hair or a sheitel) is not a primary factor in triggering inappropriate thoughts. That is not mean deny the fact that from a torah perspective, it is a significant tzinius concern. However, the large percentage of men cite to overly-revealing and form fitting clothing and a woman’s overall demeanor, as the most relevant factors in attracting attention. That MAY be a factor in why there is less attention to hairstyles in sheitels and why even frum women often use overly-styled sheitels as an allowable form of expressing their individuality.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416417Thinking out loudParticipantBuy the new book that addresses the problem of frum men who need therapy, and stop blaming women for your lack of impulse control
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416435ujmParticipantGadolH: That’s a very poor excuse.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416442Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantThe letter author is on important mission. We should encourage more men to get courage and approach women indicating specific clothing items that arouse their concerns. I am sure the ladies were not aware of the effects and will appreciate the feedback. As R Tarfon would say: everyone should love tochacha. In fact, for better results, the men should join in small groups, maybe call them tznius police, similar to such successful groups used by frum Muslims in Iran.
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416481Ng76b3cParticipantGadol…. Lets find an excuse why woman do it …
June 23, 2025 7:08 am at 7:08 am #2416513Koifer BIkurParticipantGadolhadorah:
Correct! The sheitels are a problem but the tight, form-fitting clothing is a bigger problem. So is the way women/girls act publicly (talking loudly on their phones and bringing attention to themselves). Tznius (it also applies to men) is not only about the length of a sleeve or skirt; it implies a way of conducting yourself.
June 23, 2025 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2416653emesdik613ParticipantHair is one of the most beautifying aspects of a woman, wigs and extensions are considered beauty and fashion accessories and are a billion-dollar industry for a reason. A married woman was commanded to cover and conceal her hair after marriage precisely because hair is so beautifying, this beauty is meant for her husband only- not for other men. The sin of man looking at a married woman is very great, and her head covering is supposed to create a barrier between her and other men, to prevent men from noticing her and having any thoughts. The wigs today do the complete OPPOSITE of the reason for the commandment of hair covering (which is not a chok), they beautify the married woman causing her to look more attractive to men. We have just become so desensitized to this major issue, because wigs have gotten more and more natural looking and beautifying slowly over time and we are just so used to seeing frum married women with gorgeous “hair” everywhere we go. Wigs have become a major money-making industry in the frum world too, and there are ads for wigs in every frum publication and women are obsessed with their wigs (which makes sense as wigs are a major item of vanity and women love how they are transformed in their sheitels- one of the biggest yetzer horas today for woman).
For centuries Jewish married woman wore cloth head coverings which is the real mesorah, wigs started to be worn by Jewish women about 200 years ago as breach from this mesorah (wigs were allowed by some Rabbanim to save the mitzvah of kisui rosh because Jewish women started walking around bareheaded due to the haskala movement). Before that wigs were only worn in the house, even the “peah nachris” mentioned in the Gemara was referring to a piece of hair that women would add to their own hair to better their appearance for their husbands in the home. Many Gedolim asured the wigs at that time (and those were stiff, short and ugly wigs), but the wigs took off. And here we are today, the same frum sheitel companies that are selling wigs to Hollywood actresses and celebrities (wigs are all the rage in Hollywood right now) for glamour and pritzus, are selling wigs to Jewish women for “modesty”.
Do people really not see the glaring hypocrisy and sheker of the modern wigs?June 23, 2025 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2416717commonsaychelParticipantImpressive to watch the Troller chaburah at work
June 23, 2025 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2416718lost in EuropeParticipantThe issue isn’t so much as to avoid things that trigger men, wearing a sheitel shows that a woman is married. I was out with a married woman who was wearing a lace sheitel. A man started up with her. When she told him she was married, he yelled at her for wearing such a sheitel!!.
Also, a man came into the office to ask the manager how he could inform the secretary that she forgot to put her sheitel on! This is a true story!!
Besides the fact that the prices for these sheitels are upwards to $10,000!!June 23, 2025 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2416726none2.0ParticipantThere was no commandment no offense. Lol it wasnt said outright. So first let’s not stretch here. Second reality isn’t going to change people look great in their wigs and woman want to look good that’s the point. Stop trying to control people. Also, for the record your thoughts that are triggered are your own. And woman will always seek attention it’s natural.
June 23, 2025 11:31 am at 11:31 am #2416727none2.0ParticipantYou cannot control others you can only control yourself. People will do whatever they want the more you control them the more they will seek to find outlets to express themselves elsewhere.
June 23, 2025 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #2416797ujmParticipantnone2.0: So if someone with a Yarmulke and Kapota is giving out free Chazer tasting samples in Lakewood, a block away from BMG, you’ll say leave him, don’t say anything or protest because “you cannot control others”?
June 23, 2025 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #2416800RedlegParticipantWith regard to hair covering, hirhur is, at best, a secondary consideration. If hirur from uncovered female hair were the main issue, then all women, 12 years and up, would be required to cover their hair as do Moslems for exactly that reason. The issue with a married woman going with uncovered hair is pritzus. Such a woman is falsely indicating that she is mutar l’shuk when, in fact, she is an eishes ish. Over the years other simanimm, wedding rings etc., have developed to indicate a woman’s marital status and uncovered hair is no longer positive siman of unmarried status. Nevertheless, it is a minhag kadosh for observant Jewish women to cover their hair but it, apparently, no longer matters what it’s covered with. Covering her hair with someone else’s hair seems to be sufficient.
June 23, 2025 1:17 pm at 1:17 pm #2416829BookmomParticipantI don’t think it’s practical to ask women to wear less attractive hair than they are wearing in wig
(ie, lesser quality or coarser, for example), but perhaps there can be more agreement about the length.
It’s not necessary to wear hair all the way down your back. Some of the highlights are
very noticeable as well.
A price limit would discourage the super fancy products, but that won’t
be popular, either.June 24, 2025 1:52 pm at 1:52 pm #2416867emesdik613ParticipantRedleg:
No, that is not accurate at all.
Please read this educational sourced information:
The reason that the Torah prohibits a married woman to reveal her hair is the following:
As explained in the Trumat Hadeshen:
”אסור גלוי הראש אינו אלא משום פריצות דגברי“
The prohibition of uncovered hair is because it is pritzus (immodest) to men
And in the Maalos Hamiddos:
”שערות האשה הן פריצות וערוה ומרגילין את האדם להרהור ותאווה“
The hair of a married woman is considered immodest and ervah and incites a person to forbidden thoughts and desiresThe prohibition of revealing one’s hair is because hair is Pritzus. Since the hair of a married woman is attractive to another man and can cause him to sin, it must be covered. All the Rishonim and Achronim have said that this is the reason that a woman must cover her hair in public. (For many sources on this Divrei Shalom is a great resource.)
Rav Falk writes in his pamphlet Mitzvos Kisui Saaros that “The Torah requires a married women to conceal her hair from the eyes of the public in order to lessen attraction to herself.” (page 7) He continues: “An unmarried maiden may attract attention to herself (within the boundaries of
tznius) so that she is sought after and eventually marries (Ta’anis 13a and Kesubos 52b).
Similarly, a man may look at a girl and take an interest in her appearance, chein, mannerisms etc. if he is considering her for marriage for himself or someone else. A married woman may, however, neither attract attention to herself (Kesubos 73a Rashi v.s. Sahara. See also Rosh and
Ritvo) nor may a man take an interest in the appearance of an eishes ish, as she is unavailable to everyone but her husband.
For this reason the hair of a girl may be seen, whilst the hair of a married woman, which is naturally a major source of attraction to her, must be covered and hidden from the eye of the public. Accordingly, for a married woman to wear a head covering that easily passes as her own hair, defeats the very function of this mitzvah, since a man seeing her can think that he is seeing her own hair and be attracted by it, especially when he does not know who she is and whether she is married or not.A similar but different reason why just a married woman must cover her hair is based on the verse “stolen waters are sweet” (Mishlei 9:17). Due to this phenomenon there is a special yetzer hora towards a married woman since she is an eishes ish (see Sanhedrin 75a and Avoda Zarah 20a). The mitzvah of kisui sa’aros was given to lessen attraction to such a person and safeguard Kedushas Yisroel. See Oz Vehadar Levusha, page 265 that in numerous places in the Torah hair is highlighted as a major source of attraction. Accordingly, by commanding the married woman to withhold from the public how she looks in her true hair, there is far less danger of a person being drawn to her and Kedushas Yisroel is guaranteed.
As it says in Rabbi Falk’s sefer Oz vehadar levusha: “Hair was given the status of ervah by Chazal because when part of a female that should be covered is uncovered it can affect a man who sees it and cause him to feel attracted to it.” (page 228)June 24, 2025 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #2416878emesdik613ParticipantThis is part of an essay that a Rav wrote (who teaches the topic):
“Have we lost all sense of why the Torah (as explained in Kesubos 72a-b) forbids women to expose their hair to other men after marriage? Do our bnos Yisrael have no idea that exposed hair after marriage is a tznius violation because her hair is attractive to men? Do they think hair covering is a Chok like shaatnez?! Do they realize that the Gemara gives as the consequence of appearing in public view (not at home!) with uncovered hair divorce without a Kesubah–due to the gravity of how pritzusdik it is to allow other men to see her hair? Do they know that even a kalta (a basket) that does cover the hair, but does so improperly, also has the same consequence? Can they explain why wigs that make them look more glamorous than their own hair does are perfectly fine?!”
The entire reason for the head covering is to prevent men from noticing and being attracted to a married woman, which is a very grave sin. The wigs today do the very opposite and are making a massive Chillul Hashem.
June 24, 2025 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2417010Decency is KeyParticipantI thought the letter was written well until I got to the part where he wanted to do away with all shaitels. Any shaitel that can be considered refined (for instance, meet the same hair standards set by some rabbanim) shouldn’t even be part of this discussion. Who are we? Lev Tahor?
June 24, 2025 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #2417011anon1m0usParticipantYea, wearing Shaitels will leave to mix dancing.
June 24, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2417014Menachem ShmeiParticipantIf the main issue with showing hair is that it looks beautiful and attractive, why does the obligation to cover hair apply only to married women – unlike other halachos of tznius?
Also, why not object to women wearing jewelry or makeup?
The answer is that the halachos of hair covering are very complex, and most major poskim permit wearing a sheitel, since a big aspect of the halacha is indeed a gezeiras hakosuv – hair attached to a married woman’s head should not be seen.
Differentiating between sheitels that look more realistic versus less realistic is also mistaken. The concern of maris ayin in this context was addressed already long ago, and the poskim who permitted sheitels ruled that maris ayin does not apply here – not because the sheitels of their time were more obviously fake, but because people know that authentic-looking sheitels are commonly worn, so there’s no reason to suspect a married woman of uncovering her hair.
The issue isn’t so much as to avoid things that trigger men, wearing a sheitel shows that a woman is married. I was out with a married woman who was wearing a lace sheitel. A man started up with her. When she told him she was married, he yelled at her for wearing such a sheitel!!.
What’s your source that the reason for sheitel was to publicize that a woman is married, to stop immodest men from flirting (and then he blamed her!!)?
June 24, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2417016none2.0ParticipantWell maybe that your right..but your literally talking about the entire socioty that already decided what they are doing and no your not going to be able to change the tide
June 24, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2417019none2.0ParticipantA better example to fit the narrative would be a person wearing yarmuka and kepota selling chazer in Manhatten. You can’t do anything about it. It’s his life
June 24, 2025 2:00 pm at 2:00 pm #2417090GadolhadorahParticipantIt would be naive to assume that a man would forego inappropriate thoughts based on whether an attractive woman was ”
“mutar l’shuk” versus an “eishes ish”. A man’s yetzer harah doesn’t turn off just because a woman is wearing a wedding band or tichel.June 24, 2025 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #2417222ansoParticipantTo Always_Ask_Questions about “tznius police, similar to such successful groups used by frum Muslims in Iran.”: Have you even read the Torah?
June 24, 2025 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2417223ansoParticipantTo Always_Ask _Questions: Have you even read the Torah?
June 24, 2025 2:03 pm at 2:03 pm #2417237EvalimoshavloParticipantYasher koach for opening this issue.
Its high time we stopped sweeping the elephant in the room under the carpet.
The example of the goyim’s reaction is the best proof that this has gotten out of hand.
They arent Nogaya Badavar.
Maybe the hat/tichel over sheitel can be a good compromise.
I guess depending on the sheitel underneath the hat.June 24, 2025 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #2417592Avram in MDParticipantcommonsaychel,
“Impressive to watch the Troller chaburah at work”
Hey it’s a nice break from the Zionist/anti-Zionist Chabad/anti-Chabad duopoly, isn’t it? This is some classic CR-type stuff right here.
June 24, 2025 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #2417603Avram in MDParticipantGadolhadorah,
“The article fails to address a reality that has been studied and documented in both a secular and religious context … However, the large percentage of men cite … as the most relevant factors”
Oooh, normally I’ve just stated my uninformed opinions. I didn’t know we could just wrap them in phrases like “studied and documented” to give an appearance of greater authority. I’m going to do that from now on!
Studies show that large numbers of people misunderstand frum culture. A large, double-blind randomized study of communities that dress modestly showed that members of those communities frequently had greater sensitivities when compared to communities where modest dress was uncommon.
June 24, 2025 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #2417605Avram in MDParticipantAlways_Ask_Questions,
“We should encourage more men to get courage and approach women indicating specific clothing items that arouse their concerns. I am sure the ladies were not aware of the effects and will appreciate the feedback.”
This is not fair. Nowhere in the letter did the author advocate confronting women about anything. If you don’t like his opinions, then state why you disagree. But bringing up tznius police is just a red herring.
June 24, 2025 2:04 pm at 2:04 pm #2417610Avram in MDParticipantnone2.0,
“There was no commandment no offense. Lol it wasnt said outright.”
I’m afraid you do not understand how Judaism works. There is indeed a commandment for married women to cover their hair. It’s brought down in Torah sheba’al peh and codified in halacha.
“Second reality isn’t going to change people look great in their wigs and woman want to look good that’s the point.”
You also don’t seem to understand how modesty works.
June 25, 2025 11:00 am at 11:00 am #2417760emeslaamitoParticipantThere are many poskim that hold that a married woman must cover her hair because that’s what the Torah says, not to make a woman look worse. Single women have to be ‘tzanuah’ as well (and so do men!!) and can have uncovered hair. Judaism is not Taliban. Women who wear crazy 6x wrapped towels may be less tznius than a woman with a nice shaitel, as she now stands out and everyone looks at her. A woman can be very tzanua in a lace top shaitel and very not tzanua with a tichel. And one final thing, sorry to be crude, but I promise no husband runs his hands through his wife’s shaitel. There is something to natural hair. That’s why it’s covered.
June 25, 2025 11:01 am at 11:01 am #2417840besalelParticipantIt was a very beautifully written letter but it is quite absurd that a four page essay is necessary to teach us something so basic and simple. The wigs are not modest. They are the opposite: they are immodest. Those who make the point that head-covering as a whole may be unnecessary are missing the point: you can’t do this and call yourself modest. You want to reject modesty that is your prerogative but to point at a pig and call it lamb is just insanity. The women who complain that it is unduly burdensome to wear scarfs, etc. have been proven wrong in the last wave of Muslim immigration to the USA. They wore their head covering and went to work and made into Congress and didn’t complain.
I agree that men should not be leading this fight and a woman’s head and hair is so personal it must be left to them to decide what to do but we can’t simply ignore the blatant hypocrisy and stupidity, either.
June 25, 2025 11:03 am at 11:03 am #2417845Ellie7ParticipantHere is my response to the original letter about long sheitals:
There was something about it which made me angry-and I just want to preface that I’m probably not one of the women you are talking about in the letter. My sheital is a few inches past shoulder length, but it isn’t a lace sheital and there is nothing extraordinary about it (as a rule, I don’t want my sheital to overshadow my face).
Let me start by saying that in essence, perhaps I agree with you. I wish that frum women could adopt a hair covering that would be a mark of their married status instead of making it difficult to discern who is married and who isn’t; something dignified to set them apart from singles.
But still-this letter incensed me and I’ll explain why:
The vibe of the whole letter is placing men’s issues squarely on women’s shoulders. You’re turning women into the bad guy and framing men as poor, innocent bystanders.
The way you describe the first type of man, especially-‘The Struggling but Sincere’-made me cringe. Why don’t you think that most women-even in the long, lace sheitals aren’t struggling but sincere? Why do you assume they aren’t trying their best? Why are you viewing them as an evil entity out to get men?
You can’t blame women for men’s issues. Yes, perhaps in an asifa for women this can be emphasized-without placing responsibility for men on their shoulders. No one bears responsibility for another’s actions. Period.
In such an asifa, the beauty of tznius can be expounded on-but getting someone to change by putting them on a guilt trip is low.
Imagine if women did what you did. It would sound something like this:
Dear men and Rabbanim,
Being respectful to your wife-and any human being-is an important Mitzvah in the Torah being disregarded by men towards women. The Kesubah, which says that a husband needs to support a wife is being disregarded as well, as many frum women are highly overworked raising large families while also bringing in the money while their husband learns. They are also still required to bear responsibility for all the housework. And yet, women in the frum workforce still get paid significantly less than their male counterparts while men try to take advantage of their feminine softness and goodwill. Rabbanim who women consult for help either close their eyes or say disparaging comments (“Stop being like Pharoah and making your husband do women’s work). Unfortunately, I am saying this from personal experience and that of my friends.
There are two categories of women when it comes to struggles with tznius:
Sincere but Struggling and Spiritually Numbed
The sincere but struggling try their best, and are like lions and Esther in the palace of Achshveirosh, despite the challenges of men treating them like rags they hold onto tznius the best they can, and the Spiritually Numbed are suffering from all their pain and can’t help themselves. How can a human being live their whole life without being noticed and being trampled on? At least if they put on a fancy sheital they see that they finally get treated with a measure of dignity and respect-that someone finally notices their existence and value.
Are men really unaware that treating women like rags is causing the immodest sheital issue? How can they not realize how much pain they are causing to their wives and women in their circles? when they come to Shamayim, they will bear responsibility for the tznius issue; perhaps if they only treated a bas Yisroel with the respect she deserves she wouldn’t need to look for kavod with clothing and appearances. And why, indeed, do men only notice women when they are dressed not tznius? (and I’m talking about her husband and close family and her Rav). Why don’t they give her kavod for the children she bears and the Torah home she is creating? Why don’t they see her hard work and offer a loving hand to help her out? Why must women either cry out in pain by dressing not tznius or otherwise falling into anxiety and depression?
Where is there a heter in the Torah to treat a human being such a way?
We must admit how much women need the men around them to notice their inner royalty-to see them and be treated with dignity. Only then will this issue be solved.
—Can you imagine how such a letter would be received? It’s ludicrous to place responsibility for your issues on another-do your own cheshbon hanefesh of how men treat women in frum society, of the husbands who only treat their wives well if they are dressed to the nines. Stay on the men’s side of the lane. In a public forum, don’t make the women look like the devil and the cause of all problems-don’t make Adam’s primal mistake of blaming his faulty choice on his wife.
May we see Yeshuos B’Karov and everyone should be zoche to do their own personal teshuva and not blame the other.June 25, 2025 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2417866GadolhadorahParticipantAvram in MD: Actually, one of the most frequently cited (secular) studies on triggering factors was performed by your neighbors at Johns Hopkins (with NIH funding) examining how womens’ dress and appearence triggered disruptive emotional reactions in men, in some cases leading to sexual harrassment and in rare cases, violence. Hair stules were nowhere mentioned. I doubt they interviewed guys in Reistertown, Pikesville or Kemp Mill.
June 25, 2025 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2417867Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantSuggestion above of a hat over a sheitel is something some tzadeikos are doing already. But we also need a practical solution for beinonos, who need to wear something daily to their law offices. How about nice hats without sheitel? 100 years ago a hat was considered tzanua and a sheitel was not. I know the OP will start grabbing around the hat looking for a tefach here or there, but can we not be so uptight? If this worked for some of our grandmothers who didn’t have access to hair from Indian temples. This is akin to throwing away your grandpa’s kiddush cup because it doesn’t measure up to Chazon Ish.
June 25, 2025 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2417899none2.0ParticipantHalacha codified it from a pasuk assuming married woman cover their hair from sotah. Please. It’s not a “commandment” it was taken from a pasuk. There are a lot of actual commandments like do not steal do not kill. It says _nowhere_ thou shall cover your hair. please.
Modesty is in behaviour and dress but woman like attention and like to look pretty maybe they don’t really like their husbands or maybe, woman by nature dress more beautiful after marriage because men by nature appreciate that their married to attractive woman.June 25, 2025 11:05 am at 11:05 am #2417902none2.0ParticipantWoman like being pretty. Just because you get thoughts you think your not going to get thoughts maybe marry another wife if you can’t handle having only one
June 25, 2025 11:06 am at 11:06 am #2417926HaKatanParticipantemesdik613:
Great posts. Yasher koach.June 25, 2025 1:53 pm at 1:53 pm #2418183emesdik613ParticipantTo clarify:
Unless a woman is showing a lot of hair while wearing a tichel, a wig is NEVER going to be modest than a tichel, even a big tichel. There is no issue at all in standing out by being more modest, there is an issue with a woman attracting inappropriate attention from men with her head covering (which is what almost all the wigs do today as they beautify women and give an unmarried appearance). A married woman should look like she has a noticeable head covering on her head, that’s the point of the mitzvah! Wearing a cloth head covering accomplishes that perfectly, no matter the size of the scarf. It is a kiddush Hashem to look like a modestly dressed religious woman with an obvious head covering.Please read:
“A woman may worry needlessly that there could be something immodest in her standing out as the only woman wearing a kerchief in a crowd of others in wigs. This is absolutely not a concern. Such a woman would be no different than someone modestly dressed, in a crowd of people who are not modestly dressed. Certainly both of these women are sanctifying G-d’s name with their appearance, despite their standing out
by being different from the others.” (The Unique Princess by Rabbi Yirmiyohu and Tehilla Abramov, page 105)
Standing out by dressing in a way that is provocative and attracts male attention is forbidden. Standing out by dressing modestly is not an issue at all. We must remember that conducting ourselves in a more proper manner- even though it is different from most people in society – does not attract attention in a forbidden manner and will not cause forbidden thoughts.
Imagine if everyone in the community would be wearing short sleeves. Would it be wrong to wear long sleeves because it would attract attention? Certainly not. Quite the contrary. This is a noble deed, since through this we are preventing men from violating the serious sin of gazing at forbidden sights.
We know that Boaz was impressed with Rus because she conducted herself in a more modest manner than the other women (she bent down in a modest way, didn’t speak to other men, etc.). Would anyone claim that Rus was not behaving properly since she was acting differently than the people around her and attracting attention? Quite the contrary is true. Rus was praised for her exemplary tznius, and in this zchus she merited that Moshiach will descend from her.” (Adorned with Dignity by Mrs. C. T. Friedman, pg. 142)June 25, 2025 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #2418186Avram in MDParticipantnone2.0,
“Please. It’s not a “commandment” it was taken from a pasuk. There are a lot of actual commandments like do not steal do not kill. It says _nowhere_ thou shall cover your hair. please.”
And the fact that there’s a pasuk it can be derived from actually makes it stronger than any of the other laws of tznius, for which there are no direct pesukim. There are a lot of actual commandments like lighting Shabbos candles, shechita, melachos forbidden on Shabbos, etc. that don’t have direct pesukim or are derived from pesukim similarly to head covering. Do you disregard those as well? Would it be accurate to presume that you are a karaite? There’s no such thing as a Torah shebichsav without a sheba’al peh. Groups that deny the oral Torah passed down to us by our sages such as karaites just make up their own to fit their own purposes.
June 25, 2025 1:54 pm at 1:54 pm #2418200emesdik613ParticipantWigs have always been a machlokas haposkim and tichels are considered “Glatt” both halachically and hashkafically.
The heter was only given on short, stiff wiggy looking wigs.As stated in The Unique Princess by Rabbi Yirmiyohu and Tehilla Abramov, “The halachic opinions that permit the wearing of wigs were talking about wigs that were short, unnatural looking, and “wiggy”. Such wigs were in use a century ago, explains Maran HaGaon Rav Yosef Sholom Elyashiv, shlita. They were short and stiff, and the hairs did not move from their place.” (page 103) Further on it says, “Rav Elyashiv also clearly stated that in his opinion it is preferable for a woman to cover her hair with a kerchief rather than a wig. He constantly expressed his concern about the use of wigs that are not modest- a practice which, he says, has made inroads even into the families of pious men and roshei Yeshivah. Maran Rav Shlomo Zalman Auerbach, zt”l,
expressed the same concern. As he once put it to Rav Dan Segal, shlita: “They cover their hair, and then make every effort to make it look uncovered. Therefore, in my opinion this is a loathsome thing. But who can we talk to?” He also said that, when Mashiach comes, the first thing he’ll do is abolish the use of wigs (as quoted by his son-in-law, shlita). Many halachic authorities and Torah scholars in our time agree with this approach.” (page 105)
In a letter written by Rav Moshe Mordechai Karp it says, “Many times, we heard from Rav Elyashiv zt”l, how pained he was by this great breach (immodest wigs), and how much he encouraged Jewish women to go with a mitpachat, which he considered “Glatt”, because even
the old wigs, were a matter of controversy among the poskim…”June 25, 2025 1:55 pm at 1:55 pm #2418207Avram in MDParticipantEllie7,
“The vibe of the whole letter is placing men’s issues squarely on women’s shoulders. You’re turning women into the bad guy and framing men as poor, innocent bystanders.”
I can understand why that’s angering. I personally didn’t get that vibe at all from the letter. While the focus was on something that women are doing (the attractive sheitals), the letter writer did include:
“This is not an easy conversation. It demands humility from men and self-awareness from women.
Men must admit how easily visual stimuli can impact them. Women must acknowledge the inherent power of their presence and attractiveness, even without enhancements.”
Later the writer wonders if the fancy sheitals are due to pressure from husbands to be a “trophy”, or due to their lack of attentiveness, etc. Given this, I don’t think he was intending to frame women as evil and men as good. Rather, where I think he errs is that he assumes women are wearing expensive, fancy sheitals to attract male attention. I don’t think that is typically the case.
June 25, 2025 1:56 pm at 1:56 pm #2418216Avram in MDParticipantGadolhadorah,
“Actually, one of the most frequently cited (secular) studies on triggering factors was performed by your neighbors at Johns Hopkins (with NIH funding) examining how womens’ dress and appearence triggered disruptive emotional reactions in men”
Would you be able to provide sufficient keywords to find this study in a Web search? Absence of something from a study tells us nothing except that it wasn’t studied, and it sounds like this study was specifically focused on provocative dress by secular standards. Outside of the walls of Johns Hopkins, a nearly 60 billion dollar hairdressing industry in the US, and movies and shows replete with the awkward ignored girl becomes beautiful and attractive after a hair makeover trope (at least up until I became frum and stopped watching) tells me otherwise.
June 25, 2025 1:57 pm at 1:57 pm #2418218emesdik613ParticipantIt is also very important to understand the while most women do have a natural inclination to want to look pretty and receive compliments on their appearance, a married woman’s main beauty is meant for her home and husband only. The excuse- “I need to dress like this outside and wear this sheitel in public for my husband…” does not hold any weight in the next world and a woman will be held accountable if she is dressing inappropriately out of the house and causing other men to notice her- even if that is how her husband wants her to dress. There is no excuse to cause other men to stumble (and destroy other people’s marriages).
As the Chofetz Chaim zt”l wrote in his sefer Geder Olam (Exact English translation- beginning of Chapter 4):
“The Yetzer Hora should not mislead her that she will be saved from the punishment of Strict/Unmerciful law in thinking that she had to make herself pretty for the sake of her husband so that he wouldn’t dislike her, because truthfully this rationalization is a big mistake, since this excuse (beautifying herself to please her husband) is relevant only to the confines of her house but not a public environment….”Today everything is upside down- women look terrible in the house for their husbands, and they put on nice wigs when going out where other men see them. It should be the opposite; the wigs should be worn at home and cloth head coverings outside. That is real tznius.
June 25, 2025 1:58 pm at 1:58 pm #2418231Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantGadol, I am glad you were using your time productively conducting all kind of experiments on seduction. You just need to be careful translating results from general society to an observant community. People who are used to semi-nude women around them may not have any interest in hairstyles, but brothers of BY students might.
June 25, 2025 2:02 pm at 2:02 pm #2418236Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantAvram to me> This is not fair. Nowhere in the letter did the author advocate confronting women about anything.
He implicitly does – he asks whether women understand what they are causing and he is looking for some community response. So, I took his thoughts to the “logical” conclusion. Again, I myself, am pro-hat for women and anti-hat for men.
June 26, 2025 10:04 am at 10:04 am #2418471mazal77ParticipantUnfortunately it will be very hard for Women to stop wearing these immodest, very natural looking wigs. I have read a few women would rather uncover their hair, if they were not allowed to wear wigs. Imho, i think it would be better if they DID uncover their hair. The wigs of today are even more beautiful then the wearers own hair. Indeed in the goyishe velt, it is very popular to wear wigs. hence, the bewlidered gentiles, wondering if jewish women are suppose to be modest, why in the world are they wearing these stunning wigs?? And please don’t tell me that a married womans hair, is suppose to be for her husband, when in fact, widows and divorcees, are required to continue covering their hair. Who are they covering their hair for?? Better, yet those married women, should save those wigs for home use, to wear ,just for their husbands, because once you start covering your hair, it looks much worse, suffering from thing hair. I even know of women, who cut their hair real short, so ithe wigs will look better, without showing any hair bumps.
Vanity is very important to women, so much even if Moshiach came and said himself, they must be abolished, Many women will not listen. -
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