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July 23, 2025 12:59 pm at 12:59 pm #2428820none2.0Participant
Even tho of course I value the halacha of covering your hair, in real life you can’t force a person to do anything. People do things cuz they agree to it whether through fear or they believe in the idea. Don’t tread of free will.
July 23, 2025 5:21 pm at 5:21 pm #2428920ujmParticipantIn Jewish law the Jewish courts enforced (notice the “forced” part of enforced) compliance with Jewish law, with force, if necessary. The Jewish courts could, and did, physically force with corporal punishment or worse compliance with Jewish law. Whether the law was to eat kosher, give a Gett when required, cover a married woman’s hair, keep Shabbos, dress tznius (hello tznius police, in the form of agents of Beis Din), or any other Jewish law, for that matter.
July 24, 2025 12:00 pm at 12:00 pm #2429002Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipant> Jewish courts enforced
yes, there is a case in gemorah when someone takes off red scarf from a lady and she turns out to be persian, so the rav gets fined by persian court but says it was worth the money.
But not always. Sanhedrin moved out of lishkat hagazit when there were too many murders. I imagine, head coverings were not up to your standards also when murders were popular.
There is also a question whether courts would enforce all midrabanans.
July 24, 2025 3:11 pm at 3:11 pm #2429384none2.0ParticipantThen they used fear to enforce their laws. Thats still force and treading on a sacred moral, free will. Even the Torah itself is written in 3rd person so it doesn’t take away your free will. It’s sick to see how much humans think they are G-d bit G-d is much much more then humans will ever be. The evil inclination which is fear manipulation and control is not G-d its the snake
July 24, 2025 3:33 pm at 3:33 pm #2429364Toras MosheParticipantAlways-Ask: The Chazon Ish said that in the time of Chazal if a woman walked in public in pants, the Sanhedrin would of had her executed. (Presumably after warning her and she defiantly continued her act.)
July 25, 2025 9:45 am at 9:45 am #2429463Always_Ask_QuestionsParticipantToras Moshe, is it clear from the context what period Chazon Ish is mentioning or was it a figure of speech?
Taking it seriously – such a woman would be also executed by greeks and romans, because that woman would be presumably trying to sneak into some men-only symposia or sport events. So, it is unfair to compare something that is common in our times and was uncommon at those times. Next, you’ll tell me that Rambam will be aghast seeing people marrying and learning before getting a job.
Here is an example: IIRC, there was a takonah to allow tefilin in the bathroom after an incident where (supposedly?) a student left tefillin outside and some lady picked it up and then came to the yeshiva and asked – who forgot this in my house? And the student jumped off the roof … I don’t know how gemorah knows that accusation was wrong, and I don’t know whether this lady was wearing pants, but her occupation seems clear. Still, she was allowed to come in the yeshiva and seemingly was not arrested there.
July 25, 2025 9:46 am at 9:46 am #2429530none2.0ParticipantSounds like Muslims already. Wow
July 25, 2025 9:46 am at 9:46 am #2429536Non PoliticalParticipant@ none2
Free Will is itself a sacred moral? Really? Let’s see. What about a person who chooses to torture innocent people for fun? He is using his Free Will to do this. Does that make it a moral action?
Here is another question. How many Free Will decisions did you make before the age of five? How great of an impact does what happened to you before that age have on the choices you make now?
July 25, 2025 9:46 am at 9:46 am #2429547none2.0ParticipantNo wonder we are so *afraid” of doing or not doing rabbinical law. Now I get it. They used fear and enforcement. It only takes one generation to imbedd fear into a society and from then on the society will pass it down for millenia. Absolute control isn’t something healthy and something to emulate. Absolute control creates a echo chamber for elites to use and abuse their power. Now the entire system makes sense. It is not based on morality but on control
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