Letter about sheitels

In Jewish law the Jewish courts enforced (notice the “forced” part of enforced) compliance with Jewish law, with force, if necessary. The Jewish courts could, and did, physically force with corporal punishment or worse compliance with Jewish law. Whether the law was to eat kosher, give a Gett when required, cover a married woman’s hair, keep Shabbos, dress tznius (hello tznius police, in the form of agents of Beis Din), or any other Jewish law, for that matter.

Then they used fear to enforce their laws. Thats still force and treading on a sacred moral, free will. Even the Torah itself is written in 3rd person so it doesn’t take away your free will. It’s sick to see how much humans think they are G-d bit G-d is much much more then humans will ever be. The evil inclination which is fear manipulation and control is not G-d its the snake

Toras Moshe, is it clear from the context what period Chazon Ish is mentioning or was it a figure of speech?

Taking it seriously – such a woman would be also executed by greeks and romans, because that woman would be presumably trying to sneak into some men-only symposia or sport events. So, it is unfair to compare something that is common in our times and was uncommon at those times. Next, you’ll tell me that Rambam will be aghast seeing people marrying and learning before getting a job.

Here is an example: IIRC, there was a takonah to allow tefilin in the bathroom after an incident where (supposedly?) a student left tefillin outside and some lady picked it up and then came to the yeshiva and asked – who forgot this in my house? And the student jumped off the roof … I don’t know how gemorah knows that accusation was wrong, and I don’t know whether this lady was wearing pants, but her occupation seems clear. Still, she was allowed to come in the yeshiva and seemingly was not arrested there.

@ none2

Free Will is itself a sacred moral? Really? Let’s see. What about a person who chooses to torture innocent people for fun? He is using his Free Will to do this. Does that make it a moral action?

Here is another question. How many Free Will decisions did you make before the age of five? How great of an impact does what happened to you before that age have on the choices you make now?

Yes free will is sacred cuz we are all born that way. second G-d holds us accountable for all our wrongdoings. In real time. On earth. Not after we die. Stop using an extreme example to miss the point of free will. Just cuz I show my elbows doesn’t mean I’m evil. The Torah is about morality not about stringincies. No entity has a right to be stringent and hold people accountable to impossible standards and take the letter of the law out of context for their own power that in it of itself is fear mongering and a power grab. Itself evil.

Accountability doesn’t take away free will. _if_ you choose xyz _these_ are the consequences whether moral physical, metaphysical. Reality simply works that way. You can still decide to do whatever you want. Your just not free from the consequence of your choice. And G-d spells it out for you. Uncovering your elbow isn’t a moral or immoral act and there are no real time physical consequences in reality for it. So if a rabbi comes in and kills me for it. He’s being evil. _that_ has consequences.

Yes free will is sacred because it’s a G-d given right. Given to us by our creator because we are His created beings and that’s how He designed us. He gave us earth to create dominion over it. And subdue it.

Also G-d created reality through speech. So when he said “don’t add to my word” He meant don’t add laws to reality that weren’t already there

Yirah is not fear. It means _awe_ huge difference

Rabbinical law is your perception I simply disagree that G-d said it cuz based on actual scruity of actual reality it does not fallow common sense, morality or real life. So it’s not based on actual biblical principles. It’s a stringinciy and even tho it’s a beautiful thing it’s very extreme way of living and it’s not simple to stop every part of who you are and sell it to religion. The Torah itself is complete as is. There’s not one part of it that doesn’t make perfect sense that doesn’t fit into reality _exactly_ and everytime I see how exact it is, I appreciate creation so much more and I understand G-ds wisdom so much more. Also remember no biblical person kept rabbinical there’s not one story in the entire Torah shebichsav of anyone keeping rabbinical law. That means it was inserted at some point in the timeline of our religion and when you say how they used to kill people for not fallowing their opinion now I understand how it became so embedded so quickly. Someone very smart and sly hijacked us along the way. I’m not saying it’s not beautiful I’m saying it doesn’t fit with reality exactly. So whoever interpreted the Torah interpreted it _incorrectly_ cuz only G-d word itself know His creation exactly and that’s how you can discern Devine words from man’s words. The proof is in the

Non political you _did_ try to paint free will as evil. You may have not said it but that’s what you implied by using an extreme example to paint choice and living within reality through your true self. Maybe you didn’t mean it but that’s what you said. Your also complicating a very basic principle with all your complicated examples. Stop thinking so deeply. It’s not that complicated. You were born on earth there are trees. You can either burn down the forest or create a house for yourself. G-d came with a book and said if you burn down the forest there will be moral consequences and also Devine consequences cuz you will not only hurt yourself but if that city near there burns you are also liable. Murder taints the soul. It is not just G-d that holds you accountable but reality itself has consequences. You still have free will. To live with those consequences.

I’m not saying frum people are corrupt but sometimes we can in certain scenarios choose things that are disconnected from morality becuse we don’t _have_ a relationship with it and wer never truly thought proper principles..only ritual. Which is an add on to reality. Ok whatever you get the point

None,

Shlomo Hamelech did netilas yadayim and even muktzah among a number of things. He dealt with Muktza implications when Dovid Hamelech passed away on shaboss, making it seem like these Rabinic laws were in practice before his times already.

Your interpretation of Rabinic law is convenient.

And show me the exact words in the pasuk showing what you claim that he kept “muktza” show me it. I want to see. Not the interpretation of it and someone’s dreams about what he did but the exact words

Right convince yourself do you ever even have one memory or one pasuk where it says any of that lol. Ye right. Show me the text in plain English let’s see how you twisted it and read it out of context. Cuz I’ve never seen the pesukim read in context with any level of wisdom lol.

@ none2.0

I certainly did not say, or imply, that free will is evil. Your misunderstanding my post doesn’t change it’s meaning. If you take the time to read and think about what I wrote you will see that, on the contrary, I think that free will is essential for morality, it just isn’t moral in and of itself.

I agree with your premise in linking Morality and Consequences. I also agree that people can use law to justify very vile behavior. Where we part ways is your rejection of Rabbinic Authority.

One issue is that your rejection of Rabbinic Authority is arbitrary. For example, you advocate perusing the simple meaning of prophetic texts. Without the Rabbinically transmitted principal that the simple meaning of the text is true what grounds do you have for asserting that the simple meaning is intended by the Author? How do you know that the text was not meant to be understood allegorically? Will you say that some parts are literal and some allegorical and each person should interpret the text based on the cultural moral norms of that particular time and place?

Cultural norms can vary and so can ideas about morality. The Greeks did not see any negative consequences in pedophilia and deemed it moral. For a Utilitarian it is moral for 5 people to kill 1 person if it will make 5 out of the 6 people happy. Cyrenaics considered the pursuit of immediate physical gratification the highest moral virtue. Protagoras famously said that man is the measure of all things, renouncing any objective standard of morality altogether.

We are born selfish because of we weren’t selfish we wouldn’t get our needs met but if you are raised properly you won’t _be_ selfish I actually think that people by nature are givers. I mean we also have a conscience and Devine punishment aka moral consequences to choices we make which puts a block on absolute selfishness I mean, have you ever chosen yourself and watched your life be racked by guilt. Have you never tried to make a choice and felt the weight of _making_ that choice because it may have affected another badly. Do you _not_ have a conscience? You do ujm so I don’t know if we are all selfish. Maybe some of us are just spoiled that way and have to much

@ none

You wrote in another thread that everything written in the Torah is symbolic. Please be clear. Do you believe the Torah to be a prophetic work? Prophecy here means that what is written in the Torah is the word of G-D. A simple yes or no answer to this question will suffice.

2cents the _gemara_ states. Lol. show me in the pasuk. Not gemarah. Thank you.
Non political please tell me what’s the point in writing a book if it’s plain meaning cannot be interpreted?

@ none 2.0

Your pop-humanist ranting does not pass for an answer to any of the questions that I and other posters have asked you.

The cant that you call it ppp and don’t see one iota of common sense and real life wisdom means you either can’t comprehend basic concepts. Don’t understand reality or rather hold tightly to lies for the rest of your life cuz you have too much to lose. Try to defeat one thing and argue against it? You have a rebuttal somehow I doubt it cuz what I said makes _perfect_ sense it’s just too hard for you to dismantle so many years of brainwashing. I wrote _very_ simplistic comments. Things that many stupid person can understand but instead of thinking into it and letting it give you a new perspective you can’t handle that it breaks your old one.

If G-d said in one breath to bind something on your heart and on your soil and then in another breath says and bind it on your right hand it’s _obvously_ symbolism I mean what could “binding” it on your heart mean. Symbolism. Like for real. Why don’t we have an entire chapter and ritual on how to bind it on your heart. Cuz you can’t it’s symbolic or maybe deeper then that something your supposed to ruminate on in general. Like for real.

none

“2 cents I said it was symbolic cuz a lot of it is. Not all of it. _prophecy_ is generally symbolic. Again relax. You sound so hateful. You can’t understand what I said? Oh right doesn’t fit your brainwashing. If read with _wisdom_ and _common sense_ you can deicer. Which parts are symbolic and which parts are not. I cannot speak for bris milah cuz I never read that part. But like teffilin it’s very clearly _symbolism_”

You have not addressed my main point. You attacked me personally. Labeling someone as hateful does nothing to advance your position.

I will restate the point: the Torah clearly states that anyone who does not have a bris milah faces severe punishment. However, there are no specific instructions on how it should be performed. Oral Law teaches us how to interpret the Torah correctly based on the words Hashem chose, which provides additional guidance so that a person can perform a bris without risking Karas, and correctly fulfill their obligation.

You dismiss this as ‘someone’s dreams,’ but for us, this is oral law passed down through generations, originating from Sinai.

This is just one example among many that show why we must include Oral Law in understanding the Torah.

To your other point about symbolism, being that you don’t accept ‘someone’s dreams,” how is it that you created different categories about what to accept as literal and what to dismiss as symbolism? That seems more like someone’s dream and a convenient way to alter the Torah’s commandments.

If Hashem intended for something to be symbolic and it could be interpreted as literal, he would have made that clear. Bringing up something that can only be interpreted as symbolic does nothing to further your ‘dream.” There is no reason for those clear poetic and symbolic details to be clarified since that is the only interpretation that can be applied.

Categorizing everything that is written in the literal sense and as commandments, as if they are symbolic, is “someone’s dream”.

Just because for you it’s oral law doesn’t mean the value of the what you believe _isnt_ delusional. You have alot of attachments to this way of thinking cuz this is your entire life. I get it but take a step back and examine and scrutinize your belief system it doesn’t make sense. Sometimes we don’t see things clearly. Doing it your way doesn’t mean it’s the truth. Sorry. It’s just something you’ve been doing for a long long time. I get it. In _my_ eyes it doesn’t follow common sense or hold up to scrutiny sorry the truth hurts

A lot of symbolism is obvious. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out, you clearly never tried to read the plain text. Also the Torah is a living book. As you _live_ you understand it more and more. That means young and old can understand it if you even have one ounce of life experience. Certain things you might not understand right away but real life will teach you or someone with real life experience can teach you