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Also who gave the rabbinim the right to interpret whether something is literal or symbolic how do _they_ know .they don’t and I can say they read things quite wrong with actual real life consequences for _all_ of us for millenia. Sorry this is my oppion. And even if I think our religion is beautiful doesn’t mean human beings cannot make mistakes. No man errs. Only G-d Himself does not err..not even the wisest of men and holiest of them all. If we actually believed they cannot err that’s placing someone literally before G-d. Aka idol worship. I value their oppion. But as a human being that has my own thoughts I disagree and that’s not a crime we are all entitled to think what makes sense. For us and what we agree with. Our choices our mind our lives our circumstances our opinions. And our choices and our responsibility. The only person we need to answer to is G-d Himself. Getting to the truth is important
@ none
Never read “the part about Bris Mila” but is comfortable arguing with Chazal and Rishonim. This isn’t even apikorsis at this point, it’s just sad.
Do not marry close kin
“It’s ok to marry an uncle to a niece”
Do not murder
“It’s not a human life before 40 days”
Right so how does a tree start growing if the seed doesn’t get to germinate. A human life needs to start _somewhere_.
Lineage comes from the mother.
In all biblical tests lineage comes from the father.
The Torah is actually blueprint of _reality_ which means that if it says it comes through the father then its biological and no rav Sanhedrin or person can change reality. Maybe they can play with the spiritual aspect and make some form of a binding thing in the spiritual world but you cannot change biology that’s the fabric of creation. Sorrynone2 > who gave the rabbinim the right to interpret whether something is literal or symbolic how do _they_ know
the answer is in your nearest copy of a Talmud. Learn the story of Shimon Amsuni (Kiddushin 57): he had a theory that every “es” in the Torah means something to add: “es hashamayim ve es haaertz” – Hashem created other things together with heavens and earth. So, he published much until he came up to “yiras es Hashem” – and concluded that you can’t be afraid in anything in addition to being afraid of Hashem – and he rejected the theory that he worked on for some years. This is the rigor of Talmudic analysis. When you look at different sugyous – sometimes, you can easily see the process. Sometimes, it is not that clear and the analysis might be simply justifying existing practice, but at least you’ll appreciate where these came from. Development of this technical approach is the major achievement of Babylonian Talmud specifically, as they were living “in the dark” missing a lot of information comparing with scholars in EY.
none2 > “It’s not a human life before 40 days”
Almost every issue is not absolute and requires a definition of where the boundary is. Talmud is very good at recognizing that. Rav Yirmiyahu in Bava Basra questioned one of such, seemingly arbitrary, rules: if you find a dove/chicken less than 50 amot from the house, presume it belongs to the house. If > 50 amot – you can take it. So, he asked – what if the bird has one feet on one side of 50 amot, and the other – on the other side, and he was kicked out of the yeshiva! Later in Bava Basra, rabbis begged him to come back and resolve some of the issues they could not without him. Moshe Elon (Israeli supreme court judge who was interested in embedding halakha into modern law) explains: 50 amot rule allows a simple farmer to make an objective decision whether the bird can be taken without involving lawyers. Questioning that means questioning the whole system of practical halakha where we can make ehrliche decisions in our lives and this deserved the expulsion.
None
Lots of babble and no substance.
In short, your opinion is that you get to decide what’s real and what’s made up. You have not been able to answer the Bris Milah part because you admit to a gap in basic knowledge, yet you’re comfortable coming up with your convenient interpretation of the Torah.
Just because someone is an authority figure doesn’t make them correct. Remember elites can abuse their power if absolute power is given. Only _G-d_ himself does not make mistakes. Unless your saying the rishonim are g-d. That’s uh idol worship
Also I never in my entire life thought bris milah wasn’t self explanatory. So no I need to read the text first and see what I think of it before I can give you an answer I can argue quite coherently about other things. Are you slow?
2 cents I didn’t decide. I deciphered. I observed I _experainced_ these are huge differences. I felt. I learned. I believed. I also lied to myself for many many years. Like you are doing now. Wake up. The journey is long let me cut it short for yourself
Stop being your own worst stubborn enemyAlways ask questions and I concluded that they were wrong with the same principle that they used.
Your mixing knowledge with experience you need both for discernment and wisdomAlways ask questions. The boundery starts with the ten commandments. Do not murder. Your entire thread you just wrote shows the arbitrary _compliations_ and absolute stupidity of some of these arguments. And I’m so sorry I’m saying this, because I understand these arguments are sacred to all of you, so, I apologize, but that is such a stupid argument and waste of time and waste of moral principles. Hefker shouldn’t be so complicated. I think these rabbanim have you guys arguing about stupidity all day so you wouldn’t see how much control they have over your life.
And _before_ you jump down my thought, please, please, please tell me that you don’t know _anyrhing_ about basic manipulation tactics. Cuz in your belief system there are so many of them.
A little off the topic, since many of the human hair used in sheitels comes from Idol offerings from India, which are called מתים זבחי wouldn’t that make them טמא ? Can a כהן go into to a building in which a women is wearing a human hair sheitel as they maybe made from Idol Offerings as that would make it a case of doubtful טמא in the ( רשות הרבים ) and would make him טמא which he is not allowed to do.
A little off the topic, since many of the human hair used in sheitels comes from Idol offerings from India, which are called זבחי מתים wouldn’t that make them, the sheitels טמא ? The question is do they have the same טמא as מתים. If so a כהן can’t into to a building in which a women is wearing a human hair sheitel as that would make it a case of doubtful טמא in the ( רשות הרבים ) and would make him טמא . This might require separate buildings for the women in Simcha halls. This could also be a good excuse to claim you need to work from home if you are a כהן .
none2 > because I understand these arguments are sacred to all of you, so, I apologize, but that is such a stupid argument and waste of time and waste of moral principles. Hefker shouldn’t be so complicated.
I am with you that we should not forget looking at 10 commandments!
But this is about silly chickens. But it is not a waste of time. Think of a simple farmer who lives a town. He finds a chicken. It is like you finding $500 on the street. You seem to be a philosopher – are you going to just pass by thinking of bigger issues or would you like to pick it up? But how do you know that you are allowed to pick it up? Many of us would say – hm, this chicken looks dirty and his hairy is messy – I just _know_ he is homeless – and convince yourself that it is OK to steal it (see the thread on CC offers). Next day, the chicken owner loses faith in his fellow Yidden and now has to stand whole day watching his chicken instead of doing something ore productive. On 1-2 generations, the whole community loses it’s dignity.
Instead, halakha gives the farmer a simple rule that helps him keep himself in control. And so are many other rules like that. This is applied philosophy.
So, here is “do not steal”,”do not desire”, “bear a witness” thanks to this chicken.
Abba! I thought this issue is resolved already and all frum ladies already burned all their indian hair. And I don’t think they are tumah, “just” assur bhanaah. It is right in daf yomi Avoda Zara 40s. Maybe when they sell the hair, it means that they botel the AZ?
@Abba S
No, the hair would not have the same טומאה as a מת. It’s תקרובת ע”ז which has the same טומאה as a נבילה (See Rambam פ”ו דשאר אבות הטומאות ה”ז).
Mods, why are you letting none2.0’s kefirah through? Is this Yeshiva World News or Reform World News?
@Abba_S:
And by the way, doubtful טומאה in a רשות הרבים is טהור, not טמא.Gafol hador. It’s not kefirah. It’s common sense grounded in wisdom. If you want to continue to lie to yourself and control the narrative and close your eyes that’s ok.
Second always ask questions.If you find 500 dollars in middle of nowhere it’s yours. Stop complicating things. If you want you can find the owner. That’s your choice but if it’s in middle of the street, it’s obviously hefker
How do you “know?”
Use your brain.
Don’t be stupid.The farmer doesn’t need simple rules G-d already spelled it out for him and G-d rules was _already_ enough because the farmer was also given intellect discernment and his own brain to know what he needs to do.
That is an _add_ on to the law.
If G-d already wrote the law simply that means it fits with reality exactly and we will be able to use that principle as is in real life to apply to _every_ situation.. Try it and seenone2 > farmer was also given intellect discernment and his own brain to know what he needs to do.
You are idealizing farmers. Look at people in general, whether in our times, or in history – how much cruelty is out there. People who fight in our days for the Russian army are either convicts or those dear farmers from far-away villages. They drink/rape/kill in large numbers.
> If G-d already wrote the law simply that means it fits with reality exactly and we will be able to use that principle
right, so we are not talking about stum farmers, but Jewish ones. You can see explicitly in many mitzvot that there is a goal of training us to behave properly. It is a failure of Torah learning when a person puts energy in doing a “mitzva” when it is written down but then refuses to walk an old lady over the road or looks for ways to cheat someone. Gemora Beitza 25 proves explicitly that Hashem gave Torah to Jews to teach us patience, otherwise we will use our hutzpa against other peoples.
Now, dealing with new situation: if a situation is not simple, are you suggesting acting on “intuition”? Or apply your rational mind – that Hashem gave you – to solve it. And if the latter, is there anything wrong to think carefully, say, for an hour? or a day? or for several centuries, going logically through all options? Experiment and see what works? We have a number of description in gemora how different decisions were made over time, after many experiments – such as the system of public education. (Bava Batra)
none2 > If you find 500 dollars in middle of nowhere it’s yours. Stop complicating things. If you want you can find the owner. That’s your choice but if it’s in middle of the street, it’s obviously hefker
exactly. So, if you find it near my home, you’ll go knock on my door, right? Or, in America/TX, you have a chance that I’ll shoot at you from my house and ask shailohs later. So, where does a middle of the road start? at the end of side walk? 4 amot after? I also need to know – so I know whether I can shoot at you. And your family needs to know – whether they can sue me after. See, how an idea of a strict rule prevents so much violence and bad blood between people.
This is not unique to Jewish law, American law has similar rules – there are codes that define distance from the house to property line, between your fence and property line. Jewish law simply is more careful enabling simple people to take advantage of this (for example, rules are sometimes simplified for slightly different cases – “lo plug”). This is not my idea, but Israeli SC Judge Moshe Elon.
None2.0, at this point the only thing I can do is wish you a רפואה שלימה בקרוב.
The fact that your asking, always ask questions is because you refuse to use your own common sense. If your _really_ confused, your right, I’d say go ask a wise person
At this point gadol Hador it’s clear you can’t handle someone thinking differently then what you’ve been brainwashed with your whole life. I’m not _really_ the one who needs a refuah shelaima
You just _love_ the chains echo every time you walk
The sound is just too familiar.
It’s always people who refuse to see sense that justify their own bondage
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